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Isittrue619

There are red flags all over your situation.

In short if there is no PA yet, it is very desirable to prevent one happening.

Well that didn't go as planned. I feel like this is a cat and mouse game. I asked for her phone. She gladly handed it over. Almost in a smirky way Nothing was there. Nothing. But here's the thing I didn't mention although she works part time at the kids school she used to be head of the IT department for a very large company she's way more savvy than me with this tech stuff I don't suspect i will ever catch her that way. I would offer to go on the trip with her but she knows full well I've used all my vacation this year and we can't afford me to take time off. So for now I wait and watch. Here is the thing...I'm not sure if she is willing to have a physical affair I want to work things out. I don't want to live my life policing her. I guess time will tell

So WW is very tech savvy. Well you can surprise her with your abilities.

If you have the phone password, you can run DrFone to retrieve deleted texts, photos and in some cases chat app conversations.

Check the deleted apps on WW's phone. Cheater apps such as kik or words with friends are often installed and deleted daily. Check the phone bill for frequent numbers that are unfamiliar, and find out who they belong to.

High end spyware can cake complete control of WW's phone, and even make it act as a microphone or take pictures on command. It will get everything. Such spyware usually requires a monthly subscription.

The classic VAR in the car often works well.

Install a keylogger on any computer that WW uses. For a desktop, the sneakiest keyloggers are USB based. On a laptop software based keyloggers are needed. Note: do not keylog any work owned computers, that can lead to legal trouble.

Check for saved passwords on internet browsers. So many people are lax about this and use the same passwords for multiple uses. With an admin account on any computer, whether Mac or Windows, a multitude of passwords may be found. If you do not have an admin account on a particular computer; one can easily be created using a boot DVD.

As WW is tech savvy, make sure to delete your internet history that relates to SI. For SI, always use incognito mode. In fact for your case I suggest using a Linux boot DVD, several of these allow TOR browser capability for extra sneakiness.

You can search for a burner phone, especially in WW's car or other places such as her shoe collection (places WW would never expect you to look.

The evidence you have is circumstantial, but very typical of an ongoing or imminent A.

What model is WW's phone and is any computer she uses Mac or Windows?

You really need information. In your place I would not allow WW to go on that trip alone if at all.

Stay Strong.

[This message edited by Widower at 9:31 PM, May 22nd (Monday)]

The number one sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. The number two sign is the change in behavior - being cold and distant, maybe annoyed by everything you do.

So you have the top two signs.

Other tops signs are new lingerie that are not being used with you. Have you asked her about those?

Another top sign is losing weight. And exercising. But I would lay off that as far as asking.

The most common affair partners are co-workers or ex-lovers.

Another top sign is new grooming.

So ask about the lingerie, and ask about the lack of intimacy, and tell her you are suspicious and add up all the things you listed here. Normally I would say don't show you are suspicious, but she already knows, with her smirky response to your first request about the phone. Let her know that you love her, and ask her what is the problem lately, what have you been doing or not doing.

Ask specifically what does she talk with the ex-boyfriend and ask to look at their communications. You know they are in contact with each other, so unless she is deleting everything, she will be able to show you a full, rational conversation via text or email or some other social media. If it is deleted or partially deleted, then you can follow that lead.

You have legitimate reasons to think she might be at least considering cheating. If you lay it all out, she should see this. If you are low-key and calm and laid back about asking, in a tone of worry about a loved one, her response should be one of "I understand why you might think that" and then she will try to explain the reason your suspicions are not founded. She would want to assure your worries and be more open, and possibly step up to improve the marriage.

Also, you can tell her you want to improve the marriage, you feel a distance and a problem and it is not something you want, you want to share her life as an intimate partner, does she not want the same? And if so, what should we do about it? These are things to just see where her head is at.

In the meantime, besides texting, see if you can see her browsing history, where she is exploring on the internet, you might get lucky with searches related to cheating or hiding it.

Also, I don't know how far you want to go, but savvy tech cheaters usually don't consider that a voice-activated recorder might be in their car or in the spot in the house where they talk when the loyal spouse is not around. They are focused on deleting and hiding the phone, not the relatively low-tech voice recorder. The car is usually considered a safe haven, no one can hear what is said except the occupants (unless you put a voice-activated recorder in there). If not the other man, you may catch a call form a confidante girlfriend.

But I think she is cheating now, and planning to consummate, given the other signs combined with the new lingerie that you don't get to see.

Well I think I showed my hand too fast. Shit hit the fan. I took my son for ice cream. My wife works in his class. I asked if mom ever misses work. No never. Does mom ever leave in the afternoon. No never. Is mom on the phone a lot. Not really at home I did find out she talks to this man everyday at the park. She doesn't try to hide it. My son occasionally says hi to him too. I was pissed went home and started yelling at her. As calm as can be she says yep we talk everyday. We are friends and you know this. I'm not going to not talk to him. I told her I wanted her to cancel the trip. She got on the phone with her bff and her husband talked to me. The work she is doing with her friend is legitimate I guess her dh can't go because of other commitments.

Wife then says basically she won't be in this sort of a marriage and I can go if this is how I'm going to be and I should review child support for 4 kids and she then said the sexy panties and stuff were for our anniversary next month.

Here is the problem. I don't believe her. Not sure I can do anything. She isn't letting go of her phone. She is on her own plan and doesn't use the computer. Ever. I guess I wait I am going to try and work extra and hire a pi while she is gone

wk55hn has given you solid advice which may very well preempt a physical affair (PA) from occurring between your wife and her ex-boyfriend.

Why would you opt to forego this advice, in favour of hiring a PI while she's away? That's like hiring a cameraman to film a train wreck, instead of taking action to prevent the train wreck from happening.

I am def going to try and follow WK advice but I think I need to back off for a day or two. She is pissed and I'll get no where fast now. She just took all her stuff and locked herself in the guest room. I'm going to try and see if she will go to dinner and talk tomorrow night

How old are your kids?

How old are your kids?

She just took all her stuff and locked herself in the guest room.

Great way to hide/delete evidence. Time to line up stories with the OM.

Strength

I really wish you would have waited...and did the reading I linked.

At this point a PI is your only way of getting any info unless she volunteers it.

She got on the phone with her bff and her husband talked to me.

Do you know these people?

Are you sure of who you were talking to?

Wife then says basically she won't be in this sort of a marriage and I can go if this is how I'm going to be and I should review child support for 4 kids and she then said the sexy panties and stuff were for our anniversary next month.

Here is the problem. I don't believe her. Not sure I can do anything. She isn't letting go of her phone. She is on her own plan and doesn't use the computer. Ever. I guess I wait I am going to try and work extra and hire a pi while she is gone

Sorry to hear this. A confrontation without evidence often goes badly. This is a setback.

My take is still very much on an ongoing or imminent A. I think that WW is doubling down and defying you. The threats about child support seem very much from the cheaters handbook. Of course I could be wrong. I suggest that the next time WW alludes to divorce, just say that either of you are free to file for D at any time whenever there is sufficient reason, and perhaps she should learn some manners.

As to practical matters. Using multiple VARS is one approach. Definitely one VAR in the car. Heavy duty velcro is used to secure the VAR under the drivers seat, possibly the best spot. For in the car, plug some cheap earbuds into the audio jack and cut off the ear-peaces so no beeps will be audible. Cover the lights with some gaffer tape.

I would also consider having a personal VAR whenever talking to WW. It may seem extreme, but some posters on SI have ended wearing handcuffs after false DV allegations.

Vars are likely on the shelf at places such as Walmart or Best Buy.

Sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 are reasonable models.

Use 44KB data mode not a lower data rate, and lithium batteries. Very much a good idea for talks with WW, so you do not have to remember exactly what she says: you have a reference.

Another option is a pen VAR or micro VAR inside WW's handbag.

So WW has her own phone plan, try to see any paper copies of her phone bill.

Inside WW's phone is the smoking gun. I feel you should make every effort to get that password. Can you get creative and accidentally leave the family video camera running at the spot where WW usually makes calls to her BFF? The password can sometime be found by just eyeballing as WW enters it. Often the children know phone passwords to all phones in the house.

Is the amount of new lingerie consistent with a special anniversary treat?

Remember that this is a marathon, you are in it for the long haul.

An analogy is that it seems that WW thinks that she is better at this chessgame than you are: however with the SI collective on your side, you are playing 3D chess Star Trek style whilst WW is stuck with mundane ordinary chess.

Stay Strong.

Whenever a spouse says they're ready to leave bc the other spouse is suspecting cheating and they can't take it anymore, THEY ALWAYS ALREADY ARE. Be it emotionally, physically, whatever.

After reading your thread almost every sentence reads like a cliche straight out of the cheaters handbook. But this little gem really stood out.

he is not married recently divorced.

How do you know he is divorced? Did your wife tell you? It would be very prudent of you to find out for sure without making your wife suspicious if you could. If he is married his wife could very well be a good ally for you. The absolute number one way to stop an affair in its tracks is to contact the other BS. Of course it could go underground if you called OM's wife, but since it is a long trip that could be enough to kill the affair. You also got the worry of if there is someone locally in the mix that she is seeing to boot.

I know all of your evidence is circumstantial, but add it all together it strongly points to this trip's main purpose is for a sexual laison. I definitely get the impression that your wife has a lot of disrespect for you regardless of whether she is having an affair or not. She is bullying and she thinks she can out smart you. Your wife's smugness tells me she either has a burner phone or special programs on her real phone for deleting purposes. From what you have written it certainly sounds like she has no fear of you hindering her in the least.

Your best bet I think is what others have already said. VERY carefully installed VAR's.

And while your pondering all the little tidbits you have been getting from everyone, here is something else to ponder.

Why would you want to stay married to someone who disrespects you so easily?

And ponder this, what is your dealbreaker? If she goes on the trip anyway knowing you don't like it? If later on you find out the trip was for sex?

And one more thing to ponder... Why is she so angry at you? Could it be you may be closer to the truth than she wants you to?

Once you figure out your dealbreaker, you may find it easier to find the inner strength to figure out a game plan and stick to it. One thing at a time.

IMO....a BH who plays apologetic or passive in this situation is more than likely to end up losing.

Your WW is definitely in an EA with this POS ex.

All her innocent playing is pure gaslighting.......she KNOWS what she is doing is out of bounds.....hence the hiding, deleting, and secrecy.

And that lingerie is almost definitely not for your anniversary!

I know that many here might disagree.....but I would REALLY put my foot down here if I were in your shoes.

I would print out or pick up D papers from the courthouse.....wait til you have a chance to talk out of hearing of the kids.... and do the following.

Put the papers in front of her.....

Then tell her....

"Look......you may think I am a fucking fool......but you are sadly mistaken on that score.

You are talking EVERY day with your EX BF.....and doing it by sneaking off outside the family home.

This is an emotional affair by any definition......

And I will NOT tolerate this or share my W for one more minute.

Either you respect me and this M and immediately cut off contact with your ex lover from this day forward.....or we can start filling out the paperwork right now.

You can go reconnect with your EX if that is what you truly you want.....but NOT as my wife."

Give your WW a dose of reality ASAP.....

Make it CLEAR that she stops the EA this instant or she loses her M and life as she knows it.

I know this sounds frightening......but being passive here is going to probably lead you into an even worse and more painful future after she meets up with this turd and takes it PA.

Many veterans around he will tell you straight (and correctly IMO).....you have to be willing to lose the M to have a chance at saving it.

And if she refuses to end the EA and cancel her trip to POS.....file for D and expose to both your families and all friends exactly why and what she has been doing.....and that when you told her to stop her EA she chose this POS over her M and family.

Ask specifically what does she talk with the ex-boyfriend and ask to look at their communications. You know they are in contact with each other, so unless she is deleting everything, she will be able to show you a full, rational conversation via text or email or some other social media. If it is deleted or partially deleted, then you can follow that lead.

This may be the best lead. Did she mentioned how exactly she was in touch with her xBF? If it was chats/emails, ask her to show everything. Explain that even if their conversations are "just friends", but she refuses to show you, then it is already considered cheating (she is having something with another man that she wants to remain secret == cheating). Do not yell. Explain that you are feeling insecure and only she can make that feeling go away.

I doubt that Dr. Fone will help in this case, since if she's computer-savvy, finding about undelete is just one google search away. Do not underestimate her. So probably your only bet is not what IS there, but what IS MISSING.

VARs in her car/house are good idea. Especially guest room now that she moved there.

Don't ask you children to spy on her. It is OK to ask if she is on the phone with somebody/texting etc., but not to do something that requires children to keep secret from their parents.

Does she have access to your phone/computer? Did she had a chance to access your browser history? Because if she had, then it is good probability that she is reading what I just wrote and planning her actions accordingly.

To handle infidelity is probably better based on the principle "guilty until proven otherwise".

Explain that you are feeling insecure and only she can make that feeling go away.

Stupid to quote myself, but I think that this should be the last step to do it without any drastic measures. Also, don't know if it is good advice or not - it should be OK in the unlikely case there's no affair and her reactions are just result of deteriorating relationship between you two, but if she's really having an affair then what Dyokemm proposed is probably way much better.

Also, no sex with you for how long and she's suddenly buying sexy underwear (good question - how many?) for your anniversary?

Unfortunately your going to have to call her bluff. She says she can't be In a marriage if this is how's going to be... tell her that you can't either. Stop questioning her, stop being jealous and let her go emotionally. Start doing the 180. I know your scared of the financial cost but... I don't know... that's how it is going to be. Child support can't be much more than the cost of 4 children now. Faced with the reality she will change her tune when the house gets sold and she has to get a full time job. She thinks your weak and scared and that she has you by the balls. Stop letting her. Act with strength, take control... consequences by damned (financial or otherwise). Let her know that if she goes on this trip she will come back to divorce papers. Let her know this is the last conversation you will have about the OM... if she ever talks to him again... divorce papers. Tell her you don't want to control her or make her suffer... but your suffering and can't live this anymore... and it seems like she could care less. You would never put her in this position. Stop trying to get proof or beat her in an Argument. Put your foot down and die on this hill today.

You took positive actions. Looks like she has no concern for you as she is already in Fog. The POS BF must be feeding her all history. Get hold of BF detals like his wife's contact numbers (if he have a wife). Mention severe consequences like D. You need to act like ending it to save it. Also mention you may have to discuss with the immediate family about this crisis as you are under lot of stress and it is affecting your day to day responsibilities. since the kids already have winds of what is going on you may want to get them on your side (in preparation for possible future separation)

Do not count on the distance. Read the thread "my wife cheated on me" - the pos traveled 10000 miles every month fore 8 month. The wife is stay at home and had all the time. Put something( a VAR) in her car or some where

Your BIL looks like on your side. he will find all the details of the POS BF

also initiate intimacy if you are in the mood. Refusing it gives her another reason to feel guilty.

[This message edited by goalong at 6:03 AM, May 23rd (Tuesday)]

GPS and VAR time

Whenever a spouse says they're ready to leave bc the other spouse is suspecting cheating and they can't take it anymore, THEY ALWAYS ALREADY ARE. Be it emotionally, physically, whatever.

This is SO true.

Think about it for a moment. If you wife was doing NOTHING wrong - what would have happened?

She would have handed you her phone and said, "I am SO sorry this has been bothering you so much. I love you and don't want for you to be upset. I'll find a way to cancel the trip immediately and will make other arrangements." THAT is how a loving, caring partner acts when she sees her husband upset and worried.

Instead... she retreated into a guest room (with her phone of course). What do you think was going on behind that door? $10 says it was to make sure her tracks are covered and to let her friend know that you're suspicious. Maybe even to let him now she may need to cancel the trip - if only to "prove" to you that nothing is happening (so beware of the sudden turnaround in a few days when she says, "I cancelled the trip, ok?!?")

All of us here hate being so negative. For many, like me, it used to never be in our nature. But now, having seen our own (and thousands of others) stories we are able to wade past the crap and see the lies for what they are. And, honestly, 99% of the time the members here are correct.

As I said in my earlier post - there are easy ways to go about this. She has/pays for her own cell line? No worries. Ask her to go to the family computer, right now, and print out her cell phone text and call records. She can do it - everyone who owns a cell phone has access. If she's calling a "friend" it would be every so often for a few minutes, right? What would you bet that she's sending a thousand or more messages a month???

Again - what will happen? She may very well refuse and put the blame on YOU! You're too controlling. "Oh, why don't you just leave if you don't trust me?" CALL HER ON THAT BULLSHIT! If she loved you, and wasn't cheating, she'd march right over to the phone and print it out ASAP... if nothing else, to appease you.

My biggest gripe in these cases, and the most obvious clue, is the lack of a desire for her to settle your worries. A wife who is in the marriage wants you to feel better. So she takes steps to get you not to worry. She's not. In fact, she's circling the wagons.

That is NOT a good sign. I'm sorry.