SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think as we're all BSs in JFO, the one thing we need to understand is the affair process. Understanding won't make you feel better but the questions & direction you should take becomes clearer.

Limerence explains how & why affairs happen. It also explains the fog & all of its joys. This is a really good podcast. He also has one on multiple affairs that was enlightening to me.

http://www.marriageradio.com/why-your-spouse-loves-another-understanding-limerence-the-joe-beam-show/

The good news it once she tries to make her affair a real relationship it will fall apart. Relationships that stem from affairs have around a 97% failure rate and things like moving in together speeds up the process (like in my case). She doesn't realize it yet but when this is all over she is going to have nothing, not you, not him.

In the end, you will be on top and in a much better position than she is as she is placing all her rotten eggs in his basket. She may try to use you as a backup plan so don't be shocked in a few months when she comes crawling back asking you to take her back. Its the circle of life.

Dobby,

I get the feeling that she's in the 3% on this one, especially if OM2 leaves OMW2 for WW. It seems like it's fairly possible at this point, but I do have a very outside perspective on this. OM2 does not have children, although apparently he told WW he was afraid of not being able to see his dog. I tried to point out how ridiculous it is that she is willing to sacrifice her family for him and he's waffling over his dog. Anyway, she's definitely all in, so it's really about what he ends up doing.

I do suppose that reality will set in for him becoming a part-time father to my two DDs. Whether they survive that long term is TBD. Plus, I wonder if he realizes just how capable of a liar and deceiver she is, it would certainly give me pause in choosing to be with her. But since he's been doing the same to his wife I guess they could birds of a feather. Buyer beware - once a cheater always a cheater (or at least in the majority - no offense meant to the WWs that do really commit to R).

However, I don't face a much different future with potential partners having to accept my family as part of the package - she just has a head start.

She'll be cheating on the OM soon. Sooner if he leaves the OBS for your WS. They'll never be able to trust each other because they're both cheaters. I'd give it a year or two and they'll be on the outs. Take comfort in knowing that you will no longer have to endure the pain. You'll become blissfully indifferent over time. That's when you know you've achieved. They are worse people because of this but you are a better person. You'll see it all come to fruition. Take care of yourself and your daughters. They'll eventually understand what happened.

I'm so sorry you are living thru this nightmare. I'm sure it's not what you envisioned on your wedding day.

However I am glad that you have found the strength to move yourself out of this horrid infidelity and hope you find happiness excitement and contentment again in your life.

I also predict they will be part of the 97%. Just don't fall for it when she comes crawling back.

Do you think you will write a letter to her parents?

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:47 PM, July 19th (Wednesday)]

Wow... I am so thankful I did not give my cheating husband one chance to R. I found out on a Saturday moved in to an apartment by Tuesday. Fortunately our children are older and both my x and I had decided they needed to know but we both encourage them to have healthy drama free relationships with their father and I. I refused to walk around on eggshells or plant VARS Poly bla bla All I needed to know he was sleeping with someone else. Of course like other posts he tried to get back in my life and hesaid didn't love her it was all a mistake I am the love of his life. I met him when I was 16 and married 30 years.

3 years later I got a good settlement. Believe it or not we are friends and go out to dinner approx. 2 month...nothing romantic...kids come family come. I never bring up the affair because it hurts me more than it hurts him. Being free of infidelity I have a free life. Don't stay and be miserable.

Stevesn,

I did write her parents, with evidence, and they found out about the affairs from me. They don't speak great English, so I also copied her brother so he could explain it to them.

My WW had previously told them, according to her, that we were separating because we were fighting about everything. However, when I saw them this past weekend it seems likely that she told them more atrocious lies about me, because they looked at me like I was a monster. I guess I need to recognize that they are loyal to her, but it really hurt to see them and the looks on their faces of disgust at me.

Deb,

I wish that I had gone with my gut and not been willing to consider R, it would have saved a lot of pain. At the same time, I can walk away with a clean conscious, knowing that I gave it my all for the kids trying to keep my family together. Perhaps later in life I will see these past months as an investment in my relationships with my DDs.

Deb. That is impressive.

For what it's worth you have done your best. You will look back on the decision to D and be able to walk away with a clear heart and conscience knowing you did uour best. No regrets there.

As for the other BS, you should tell Her. Whatever happens with OM and WW is not your doing. Often the CS changes their focus once the A is made known.

The OW has a right to know.

And if your WW is angry at you - oh well too bad.

Many BS would want to know. Especially if the CS is really planning on leaving (like my H). The OW knew for months he was going to D me. Yet he never did. And when I told him he was free to go b/c I was divorcing HIM - suddenly the AP meant nothing, it was a mistake etc.

Tell the OBS. You will be doing the right thing.

And in my opinion if your in laws want to support their daughter and her cheating wsys then they are bigger idiots than the child they raised. B/c as a parent I would love my kids but call them out on their bad choices and unacceptable behavior.

Stupidity in the family tree is evident on your WW's side. Sorry for you.

NYC

How's it going this week?

Stevesn,

Thanks for asking. Today was WW's birthday and I triggered a bit as its her first birthday in 15 years that we're not celebrating together. Also, thinking about the fact that she likely is out with OM (and then back in with him afterwards) is nauseating.

However, aside from that things have been pretty good. I have the kids this week in my new apartment. I made their room and the living room really nice (by IKEA standards) and they are taking to the new place well. My WW came today to take them to an early dinner for her birthday and I let her see how nice the place is; I think it made her a little envious. Also, my eldest daughter is on the cusp of losing her first tooth. I really hope that it will happen before Friday so that I can be there for the milestone. It would be poetic justice that it happens on my watch, as I'm probably still most torn up by knowing that my WW's actions will rob me of half of my DDs' lives.

I do know that I'm better off without WW in my life at this point. As much as I wanted to provide my DDs a family upbringing, it literally got to the point with WW that she is no longer capable of telling me anything truthful. She continues to lie and I have just started to yes her in order to not create more conflict. I'm still waiting to hear back from her lawyer about her demands with respect to the impending D. I've come to terms that it will be expensive to D, but as they say, it's expensive because it's worth it. I do have a couple of points of leverage that I will try to apply, so we'll see.

My appetite is coming back, I hope the weight is not so quick to follow. I'm thinking that I might try to go on a date or two next week when I don't have the kids. I'm not sure if I'm ready, but I haven't been on a date in 15 years with anyone other than WW and I figure that I could use some practice so that I can really hit the ground running when I'm ready.

[This message edited by NotYetConvinced at 1:01 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

You are very strong. I found out last Thursday. He says he loves the ow (she told her husband) so we will separate and divorce. Although I know I deserve more and I would never trust him anymore (she is affair number 2), it still hurts like crazy. I know I am doing the pick me dance and i am ashamed of it but i didn't want this for my kids and I. Anyways, I read everything from your first post and I could see you getting stronger and stronger. I hope you will find happiness!!

Glad to hear you are feeling and eating better. Enjoy and focus on your DDs and getting back to a new normal.

While it's probably too early to seriously date it may just make you feel better to connect with others again on just a casual level. Sometimes we can get lost in our own heads when we are constantly alone. Have you been able to go out with friends at all?

Finally I think we all still think you should contact the OBS. Ensure it's in a way where you get voice confirmation from her either in person or on the phone. She deserves to know that her shithead WH is doing family type things (birthday dinner?) with another woman in addition the having physical contact.

I'd say the sooner the better so you can put that and everything else in the rear view mirror and start your healing.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:28 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

Brisbee,

Thanks. The funny thing is that I was really strong at first and my resolve started to weaken for the sake of family. I hate that my kids will have a broken home, but I gave my WW a number of chances over the past two months and she continued to serve me shit sandwiches. I think I could have gotten over the affair, but I will never be able to forget or likely never forgive her willingness - almost eagerness - to continue to lie and deceive me. It feels like I was the only one (and, indirectly, my children) she didn't care about hurting by her actions. All of those times I confronted her and she came back at me with anger for getting caught in lies. Plus, all of those nights that I couldn't sleep and she was sleeping soundly despite her professing that she was confused and didn't know what she wanted - when she really didn't care about me anymore and was probably just dreaming about OM. Unfortunately, I think we would have been in a better place if I had just ended it earlier.

I'm not saying that it doesn't hurt from time to time, but there is no point dwelling on the past. I will miss the family vacations and just sharing cute observations about the kids with each other. I suppose it's possible that I could find a partner that will enjoy my kids with me, but I know it won't be the same as their flesh and blood. I haven't felt loved by my WW in a long time and it only seems fair that I start putting effort into finding some one new (ironically, I wish that we had put the effort into our relationship so that we didn't end up here, but again too late for that).

We're not getting any younger and this world is filled with opportunity to meet amazing people.

With respect to your own situation, I would say use me and others as an example. I haven't read your story, but the truth that Stevesn and others here try to show us BSs is that this all patterned behavior. It's nearly comical to me now to realize just how wrote the whole A thing is (shout out to lostfather for the post about limerance, hard to listen to that guy talk, but I bet every BS with a WS that ended up in an EA/PA will see that that is nearly exactly what happened to them) and that it just takes time to get people to come around to that reality. I even forwarded that podcast to my WW as kind of a last attempt to R. I pointed out to her that her A will likely die over the next year or so and then she'll have nothing. But it didn't sway her because she's "addicted" to OM. I'm actually amazed to read about the percent of marriages that successfully recover from an A because it seems so unlikely with what most of us experience.

Anyway, the way I see it, you can wallow in uncertainty and misery or just pick yourself up off of the floor and move on.

Stevesn,

Again, thanks for all of your support throughout the past couple of months. I also see the care that you take to shepherd other BSs along and you are truly an asset to this community.

To answer your question, I've had plenty of meet ups with friends. They mostly all get some sort of enjoyment in rubbernecking my train wreck, so the topic of conversation has been all about me. It's been good to vent, but I know that I need to get back to conversations about other things too.

[This message edited by NotYetConvinced at 1:08 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

I suppose it's possible that I could find a partner that will enjoy my kids with me, but I know it won't be the same as their flesh and blood.

I just wanted you to know that I have proof in my own family where a stepDad is closer and more In love and close with my SILs kids than their own dad and the feeling is mutual.

Instead of possible I'd almost classify it as probable. Someone who falls for a great guy like you will also fall equally for your darling children. And the person you pick will probably be loved by your children because you probably wouldn't pick someone who set their radar off negatively.

Take care and keep us up to date on the proceedings and if u need any advice.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:03 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

I'm actually amazed to read about the percent of marriages that successfully recover from an A because it seems so unlikely with what most of us experience.

I guess maybe I should eat my own words, its seems like my male BS compatriots here (Pineapple, DarkHoleHeart, and T-Pain) could all be turning their situations around. In case you are reading, I'm hopeful for you all!

I'm still placing my money that someday soon she walks back thru your door tail between her legs begging a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) chance.

And my wish is that you've found such happiness that it's an easy decision to turn her away and wish her well.

In a way, I feel the same. She says that we need to take time apart to figure out what we want. I told her that I have been clear about what I wanted, R, but that I'm not waiting around unconditionally for her to figure out what she wants (or to see if OM leaves OMS).

I will wait for the D to go through before I get serious with anyone, though. While our M feels like its essentially over, and as noted earlier in the thread I want to get D for tax purposes regardless of our future relationship status, I don't want to be an adulterer in the eyes of the law. Not sure why the high road is so important to me here after everything, but I guess there is some symbolism to it all. Plus, I don't want to start off a relationship being dishonest with my new partner about my marital status. It happened to a close friend of mine and it is already helping to undermine his relationship.

I personally wonder if i will ever be able to trust a man again. It scares me to think that I might spend my life alone but at the same time, i don't known how I could meet someone without it being on line and how I could trust someone when the father of my kids, my husband of 22 years isn't trust worthy! Don't you find that scary? To give your heart to someone again?

[This message edited by Brisee at 6:25 AM, July 26th (Wednesday)]

Brisee,

I have thought about the trust issue (rereading the below, I suppose maybe too much) too and it is scary. Part of me wanting to R was that I feel like I can better deal with the devil I know than the one that I don't (or however that saying goes). Either I will never trust again, so why not stick with WW, or I will have a hard time trusting, so why not let her try to build that with me before moving on. I mean, we had a good relationship for so long that maybe she would come around? However, as I think about her ability to look me straight in the face and lie to me over the past couple of months, I realized that she has become too comfortable deceiving me. Perhaps many people are capable of the same skill (I've come to realize that my wife is not unique/special in most ways). Just look at this site - it is getting close to the 60k member mark, adding 10k new members in less than two years, and only a small subset of couples dealing with infidelity in english speaking countries likely find their way here. But, I also think that the lying and deceit are part of the A / addiction pattern and it's much easier to trust someone so long as you are not in this situation.

I told WW that I have come to peace with the fact that she will do whatever it is she wants and then tell me whatever it is she wants about what she's doing, with the two unlikely to coincide. I have told her what I need to start rebuilding trust, but she's not really interested in taking those steps and just kind of responds that I should start believing her again. That doesn't feel like remorse to me and so R is not in the cards for now. I expect that our lack of trust will make for an unhealthy co-parenting relationship, but it's what WW's served up.

So, looking at trusting in a new relationship, I have basically decided that I shouldn't expect to trust for a long time. By setting low expectations upfront, I hope to not get hurt too badly. Plus, not everyone is for everyone and so I expect to face a lot of rejection when dating outside of just the trust issues. I mean, I plan to be open and honest in my relationships, but I understand that it takes time to build trust with a stranger. I will see how things evolve with each potential partner and have a high alert for signs. I've set up two dates so far, one with someone I've known off and on since high school and a parent of one of the girls from my DD's kindergarten class (connected with both of them on an OLD app). I realize that I'm likely doing that because there is some shared element that makes me feel comfortable that there is likely some upfront trust. But I'm also setting up dates with complete strangers and, again, have a lower expectation for trust.

The final point worth mentioning with respect to trust, in my mind, is the impact that smartphones are having on relationships. Both you and I, and most people on this site, started our now broken relationships prior to the advent of smartphones. If you have listened to or read any Esther Perel (the TED talk is at least worth a listen), she says that smartphones have made it 1. easier to cheat than ever before and 2. easier than ever to get caught. Let's deal with them in reverse order:

First, my WW and I were already married at the time that we got our first iPhones. Given that we had built a relationship of trust for a number of years prior to that, it was never contemplated that we wouldn't have access to each others phones. Heck, we probably didn't even have passwords until at least the last couple of years. And even then, my WW didn't bother to change her password when she started to communicate with OM via Whatsapp. I'm not sure how access to phones evolves in new relationships that form in the post-smartphone era. Is there some point in a relationship, after having the exclusivity talk, where you sit down and agree to give each other phone access, or does it evolve naturally (i.e. check out the picture from the other day, my password is x), or is it just expected that phones are a private domain and no access is granted? There are other ways of getting caught, but this seems to be the prime avenue, in my mind. So, if I never have access to my partner's phone, I suppose I will be subject to higher risk of being cheated on. So again, I will go into new relationships more guarded and a lower expectation for trust.

Second, it seems like OLD apps have created a proliferation of opportunities and, for better or worse, monogamy is probably hard to come by. I was reading someone's OLD profile the other day that summarized the dilemma well. Basically she said: everyone is looking for THAT person, but no one is willing to be THAT person. Even though most profiles say something along the lines of "looking for something serious," it seems too tempting with all of these options for people to keep reaching for the next best thing rather than to settle down (see my earlier comments on settling down and pair that with the fact that there are a lot of people in their late 30s in NYC that still haven't chosen a life partner). Perhaps there are ponds to fish in where that is not the case, as eHarmony might pitch to clients, but I have come to realize that I can't expect monogamy when I start to date. Maybe that's not such a bad thing, at least at first. However, even after the conversation of exclusivity, it just seems too tempting to check Tinder "one more time" or to continue to flirt with the people still in the queue, whether or not there are issues in the relationship.

I hope that I'll have time to figure it out, but for now its just about setting low expectations.

[This message edited by NotYetConvinced at 3:22 PM, July 26th (Wednesday)]