SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been called one of the most compassionate people by many.

Why is it so hard to believe that I am a good person now?

I made changes to become the good person I am today?

Exercise your empathy and cmpassion - wich you find I sorely lack.

Hi there Spiral, The things you are saying hint at two places to dig, kernels as I call them. They might better be thought of as thread tips, though, things to grab onto and start following and see where they lead.

1) The vision of yourself that is most important to you is the one you see through other people's eyes. When you don't like the look of that vision, you get very defensive and try to convince them that they are wrong instead of getting curious about what they are saying.

2) You tend to think of people as "good" or "bad" rather than behavior as good or bad. Personally I tend to go with behavior and influences as "wholesome" or "unwholesome". The former involves choices that support us in being more integrated, more whole, and more authentic. The latter involves choices and influences that push us to being less integrated, more fractured and less authentic.

It isn't really clear to me what you are interested in learning from your posts here. It sounds from your posts as if you think the problem is really the dead bedroom, as you call it. What is it, specifically, about infidelity that you are trying to survive?

A curious and EvolvingSoul.

From what EvolvingSoul said, about how you seem to think the problem really is the dead bedroom; I think that's what people are trying to get you to think about.

When I cheated, my husband and I were having much, MUCH more sex than we are now. If you were married to me now, you would probably say we currently have a dead bedroom---we have sex very infrequently (since I got pregnant, maybe 1-2 times per month at most). Yet I'm not at all tempted to cheat now---but I cheated when we were having sex several times per week.

All I'm saying is, a lot of times it doesn't have anything to do with the pre-A relationship with the BS---and even when it does, part of becoming a non-cheater is figuring out why your response to marital issues, sex issues, etc. was to cheat. Ok, so your H refused to have sex, refused to get help for his medical issues and depression---why and how did you arrive at cheating as the solution?

I hate generalized statements, because individual cases are called forward to disprove them.

I've heard many times that men are less likely to see a doctor for health issues than women are. General statement.. but I've heard this from doctors, in the news, in articles in magazines, and am an example of this tendency myself - of course none of that makes it true. If it were true in your BH case, it might explain why he did not go to the doctor.

Libido in men decreases at testosterone levels decline. So if a 'dead bedroom' is an issue, what happens if you R and as your BH ages his desire for you declines again?

I wonder if the 'dead bedroom' issue couldn't be related to you and your relationship. If we don't feel connected, then the desire really isn't there. Maybe 'Love Languages' could be a part of the problem.

LOTS of men I know complain about the 'dead bedroom'. I've been married for 38 years, in that time I've turned down my WW's advanced THREE times - and you know what? She remembers every one of them. In that same time, she has turned me down HUNDREDS of times. I could complain of a 'dead bedroom', but I doubt anyone would let me get away with using that as an excuse to lie and cheat on my wife.

Since your husband experienced a dead bedroom in his first marriage, because of his former wife's low libido, and it resulted in him leaving her because of his higher sex drive, and he was terrified of it happening again in his marriage with you, it stands to reason that his low libido is,in fact, because of medical reasons. Or, that something happened in the marriage, prior to your decision to cheat, that caused him to no longer want intimacy with you.

This man was so worried you would lose your desire for sex after kids, that he wanted to adopt.

You have said he refused to communicate, yet he's the one who made the appointment with a therapist, years ago, so you could deal with sexual issues between the two of you.

You said he thought it was your karma to get the cancer, but elsewhere you say he would constantly ask about your health,that he was aware that cancer ran in your family, and was so worried it would happen to you.

You talk about how open, supportive,and loving he is..yet here he is a cold, unfeeling man.

So many contradictions. Why?

I don't need to look up anything on Reddit; I lived a dead bedroom, as you call it, and like your husband, it was "my" fault - at least, I'm sure that's how you'd view it. I had severe depression, and I cannot emphasize enough how much depression can skew your thinking. It took me months to feel some semblance of normalcy after I began Wellbutrin, and as the veil began to lift, I was thrust into a world and marriage that I barely recognized. In so many ways, I had been "gone" a long time.

As an aside, depression isn't just "the blues". Depression can manifest as anger, or as in my case, I've said so often, I simply felt numb. I felt...nothing. When my husband asked me to see a doctor (and he did), I did not believe he did so out of concern for me, but rather because I wasn't meeting his needs. And over time, and as I sunk more deeply into depression, I trusted him less and less. In hindsight, I do think that intermingled with his feelings of neglect and my seeming rejection of him, was some awareness that I needed help.

As it turns out though, I also was married to a man who, for the majority of our early marriage, did not "see" me. I was there to do the wife things: take care of the house and kids, cook sometimes, etc., and of course, sex. In my mind, I did not want to have sex with a guy with whom I felt like sex was an obligation. I'm not saying that he always gave that impression, but I can recall years of asking him to see me - telling him that I did not feel like he saw me as an equal, as a partner or teammate. We'd have those conversations, but I don't think he understood what I meant because I was mostly shrugged off. For the record, it's lonely on both sides of that kind of marriage.

From everything you've shared here, I don't think you see your husband, Spiral. He gets test results that confirm a problem, and you see those numbers through a lens of how they have affected you. You say that you told him to see a doctor, but maybe he sensed that your message was not motivated by concern for him so much as it was because you weren't getting what you wanted. Obviously, I can't speak for him, but I don't sense from you any kind of compassion or empathy for him. Instead, you rail about how if he'd listened to you, he would have gotten better sooner and.... then what? You would have had the things you wanted? You wouldn't have cheated? How do you know any of that?

You list several possibles reasons why he may have stayed, but why did you? Why did you choose to cheat vs taking the more honorable approach of divorcing him? And at what point are you going to see that whatever you believe you've lost because of the dead bedroom, what he has had taken from him, through choices you made, is far more traumatic and painful, and the effects will endure for far longer, than what you experienced?

I am not downplaying how awful rejection is - I've been there, too, and it hurts so much. In a healthy relationship, two people can be open and vulnerable about their needs, their worries, their goals, their beliefs, and for most of us here on SI, we obviously didn't have that. You can point to the fact that your husband wasn't healthy then, but at some point, I hope you will realize that neither were you.

Editing to add two things:

1 - Unless your inheritance was placed in a joint account, shouldn't it be protected from division of marital assets in a divorce?

2 - One of the most profoundly meaningful breakthrough moments in the early days of our R was when my husband began to understand how my depression had affected me and impacted our marriage. He looked at me with an expression of shocked grief, and choked out, "Oh my god, I abandoned you when you needed me the most." We have mourned what we both wish we could have had throughout most of our marriage, including the emotional and physical intimacy and connection we have now. But at no point has my husband ever said, "If only you'd seen a doctor sooner, I could have been having more sex." ...because that's not entirely true - he had much work to do on himself even then.

[This message edited by BlueIris at 10:54 PM, July 15th (Saturday)]

HellFire: I do not know where you got that from. I think you are confusing my Husband with his brother and his soon to be Ex Wife.

Spiral:

DB perfcy legit reason to want sex out of marriage and your vows to that marriage are equally as perfectly legit a reason not to get it.

I know DB. It's it not good - it's not cool. Lots of men out there would love more action - sounds like you may be a good candidate for one of them.

You do not cheat on a marriage - friend, for any reason. That is 100% on YOU.

You may be a good person, people may say good things about you, blah blah blah - who's your audience? Should probably be your husband if you're trying to stay married.

Several people have asked it tho - why are you still w your marriage? I think you may be hurting your spouse more than helping if you're yelling at him like you described.

Do you see the extent of the damage you have done? Apart from all of his ailments, excuses, weaknesses, shortcomings, issues?

I went to the site you keep telling us to check out. I searched the same username you've used here, to understand better what you've been through. The things I mentioned are posted under the same username you use here. It was posted awhile ago,before you had kids. But it's still relevant. So, unless you copied that username, from the same forum and site you keep directing us to, then it seems to be your post.

I do not use Spiraltänzerin on reddit. In fact, I did not even write there at all.

Wow. That's an amazing coincidence. Someone with the exact same unusual username,posting in the exact forum and website you've been telling us to check out. Right down to the cancer.

They say everyone has a twin.

The account on reddit was made by one of the Women in my Cancer - Self Help Group. She liberally borrowed parts of my story and meshed it with hers. Mainly to annoy the red pill folks on the forum and to protect her identity. She got the name from a Blog of a Female turned Male. He was called Spiraltänzer (Spiraldancer) and identified as pagan. His blog no longer exists and so she took the name. I use the same name here because it was her nickname for me while in the group.

[This message edited by Spiraltaenzerin at 11:26 AM, July 17th (Monday)]

Several people have asked it tho - why are you still w your marriage?

This question is not easy to answer, maybe because I still love him? despite of everything? Because I am conflicted to leave him while he is ill? Hoping for him to go back to the amazing man he was until after 3 years into marriage? I am asking myself the same question daily.

He gets test results that confirm a problem, and you see those numbers through a lens of how they have affected you. You say that you told him to see a doctor, but maybe he sensed that your message was not motivated by concern for him so much as it was because you weren't getting what you wanted.

I see how that might have come across. But I do think that he knows that his wellbeing is important to me no matter what. With that I do not mean purely his physical wellbeing either.

I think you may be hurting your spouse more than helping if you're yelling at him like you described.

I already said that the words I spoke were needed. Only the manner in wich I conveyed them was totally wrong. After 6 years of completely ignoring everything but the A. it was time.

That is 100% on YOU.

Never said otherwise.

Do you see the extent of the damage you have done?

Yes, I do see what I did. Always did. I do feel remorse, wish I could take his pain and hurt away. But it is not possible to do so.

But it seemed like he was dealing with it ok, until I got Cancer. Then he suddenly brought it up again and insisted on further MC. He had good times when I felt low and vice versa. The pattern was obvious to both my and his family.

Hoping for him to go back to the amazing man he was until after 3 years into marriage?

That is never going to happen. People change. This has changed him and you. It will never never never be the same.

Same man? or same dynamics?

Marriages change after 3years too. They don't call the 7year itch for nothing. Some mature and some don't. That too will never never never be that same after this. It would never never never be the same without it.

Everything changes. Marriages and people. Even when infidelity isn't a part of it. That is life. Either you move on and make it better. Or stay stuck in resentment and make it worse. That is in your control. Not him. Not your marriage. Just you. You can choose to make choices and decisions to make things better if you can or choose to make things worse (like cheating or holding on to resentment). It is black and white. Healthy non-destructive choices or continue to be destructive.