SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

hurtintx nailed it. Please read his post again about your WW being in the driver's seat.

Others have used DrFone to recover deleted stuff from phones. You may want to check that out because believing her at face value will only lead to more rugsweeping, which will never, ever result in reconciliation.

It depends on what email she has but Gmail seems to save everything even if you trash it. There is a tab for "all mail" and the sent, received, trashed, drafts are all there...not forever but for along time.

I don't know if other emails do this but it can be handy info for gmail users.

There is so much good advice here on this thread. Please follow it. The wife that you love so much is gone. The marriage that you are trying to so hard to save is gone. I've only been here a very short time, but in order to R, you have to start completely over.

Do the 180 now. Get her to take a polygraph. Please tell the OBS. Blow this shit up!

You aren't capable of just plowing forward through this. Believe me, I am unbelievably resilient, and I tried. You only get so far.

I got 7 1/2 years. There is no way to calculate what I've lost.

Don't help her through this. Don't protect her from the consequences of her own actions. Don't accept her lies. You WILL regret it.

aside from her telling me something, i believe I've exhausted every option i have of finding shit out.

pretty tired from it all.

Polygraph and PI. A PI not only can watch current activity, they can uncover past activity. They have the resources to get info from hotels, cameras, etc.

I think you need to go see the sister and have a heart to heart talk. Let wifey know you are going, which might give her another opportunity to come clean. Something happened in that hotel, I'm thinking. Look the sister in the eye and ask. Tell her you are working to save your marriage but cannot move forward without all the truth. Wifey lied to you about all the texts and phone conversations AND a huge trip to see him so lying about having sex is easy. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 4:04 PM, July 18th (Tuesday)]

I feel your pain. Not a good position to be in....

by putting pressure on her - you feel you risk the chance of her leaving and/or a point of no return of any chance of saving the marriage.

or

if the current status-quo continues, she controls the agenda by deciding how and where things go...

If you don't want to put too much pressure on her, afraid you might lose her, you might try do stuff in a more subtle 180 way - go to a gym, hang out with friend, and see what kind of a response you get. You may be able to turn the tables that way...

If she has not discussed it with anyone else other than her sister, she is obviously afraid of hurting her reputation.

So by you getting out, she may start worrying about you discussing it with others. You would see that, by her saying things to you when you returned home, like, why were you so long, what did you and john doe talk about for so long...

That would be a good chance to get a true sense of whether she is just playing her control game of you, from picking up on your desperation, because she is really ashamed of her actions, or whether she is really set on, thinking of leaving you.

If she acts concerned of where or who you are with, that may just give you the upper hand back.

just trying to think of some reverse psychology here to help you...

im sure that if i werent so available, it would at least make it interesting.

i work a lot from home, so this summer i decided i wanted to be around the kids more so aside from the occasional camp, im home with them.

i told her over our trip that i wanted someone else to be at the house during the days and that i was too busy to stay home most of the day with them.

its a start. the only issue is that i am building a business and my head isnt in the game at all.

you could also hire a gorgeous au pair to help you with the kids in the day... and see how she like that... .

Hi tpain. I'm catching up on your last couple of pages here...

This...

as time passes, im finding clarity. im able to process the things that are happening around me without some of the fog.

and this

i still have those sickening thoughts...

Trauma. Infidelity causes PTSD in most people. The mind movies, constant obsessing, panic attacks, all of that stress on you caused by infidelity. Have you looked into IC for yourself at all?

i have a question though. If there were a way for me to be certain that she didn't have sex with him, would the advice being given be the same?

Polygraph. Polygraph will tell you if she's being deceitful or not.

it sounds crazy, but i want to help my wife through this. she is hurting too and i care. yes, she brought the pain on herself, but it doesn't make me care less about her. she hurt me, yes. she potentially destroyed our marriage. she potentially destroyed the image our friends, family and children have of her. she knows all of that and I want to help her. she is in pain and i cant desert her, like she did us.

and

i want this to end well for me and my family. i suspect it may not end the way i want but all will be ok.

i want my wife and my marriage and my family to stay intact and the way it has been forever. i know that no matter what, life will go on, i will continue to love my kids and i will raise them to learn from others mistakes as well as there own. i will continue to teach them that honesty is paramount to everything.

You love your wife, life, and family. That is good. You can't turn these things off like a light switch. We all get that. If you could turn off the love that easy we would be having a different conversation on a different website or perhaps you would have been a wayward yourself. Think about that for a sec...

SI is a tough crown, for sure. despite my lack of adhering to the advice right now, i am taking it in. your posts are helping me through this. i cant imagine what a mess i would be without this site. i listen to and process every post.

this is such an unknown area to me. ive never been in, nor did i think id ever be in a position like this. i do not know what to do nor do i know what is right for me and my family.

and

i know that i love my wife and will do anything i can to make this work. if i cannot make it work, then at least i can know i tried.

No one is ever prepared for this shit. Not ever. Especially the first time around. You have loads of experience and advice in your thread here. Take what you need as you go. It's not going to stop the chorus of people telling you to watch out if you don't take some of the advice. There are no right or wrong decisions here. The only wrong is indecision which is your true enemy. Make some decisions and get your family out of infidelity.

then i forced her to tell me more and she confessed about the weekend

since then, she wont talk about the affair nor will she commit to saying she wants to stay in marriage. just doesnt want to talk about it at all. its like coming clean made her angry and made her want to leave me. she says its because a lot of things were said and done. remember, i called her a whore and tore up the outfit she wore on her date.

Trickle truth is the ultimate marriage killer. More so than the sex of the A. More lies, half truths, deceit, putting the A above your marriage, covering her own ass, not wanting to be the bad guy (aka not talking about it), are all signs that point to not a good candidate for reconciliation. These things also cause more trauma to you and add to your PTSD.

Also, IMHO, many of these things don't come until later. BUT HERE'S THE THING. YES I'M YELLING AT THIS POINT. YOU HAVE TO GET ALL OF THE TRUTH IN ORDER TO SEE IF YOU CAN RECOVER THE MARRIAGE. YOU CANNOT RECONCILE WITHOUT RECOVERING THE MARRIAGE FIRST AND THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THE TRUTH SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUILDING ON. Speaking from years of experience, if you don't get the truth, rug sweep and jump into R, your PTSD will grow exponentially. You will not have a happy M and your kids will grow up in that toxic environment that i noted before. Seeing things wrong with their parents without their parents having to say a word. BTDT my friend.

she was a 16 year old sophomore in high school and he was a college graduate. not splitting hairs, but that is against the law. today would have him labelled as a sex offender. you're correct tho, 6 year age gap is nothing, except when it is.

dont care about that tho, it was 200 years ago. just trying to paint a deeper picture of what a pos this guy is. she was a quest to him then and continues to be now.

This is most likely effecting your WW in ways she does not understand. This is an area that she needs to explore in IC and you cannot help her with. You can listen though if she comes to you.

The focus should not be on AP here. He's irrelevant other than he may have caused the damage. Your WW is still susceptible to acting out, cheating again, poor boundaries, so the issue is squarely on her and needs to be treated with her. If not, the next pos that comes down the pike and she sees as some sort of father figure/child molester in disguise is going to have a field day with her. She's the only one that can stop it.

im reading and trying to process the 180...

Good!!! Excellent!! Arm yourself with knowledge. Then implement.

she told me that she knew it was wrong. that i wouldnt approve but she wanted to talk to him and have him as a friend. she swore inside out that friendship was all she wanted. this guy looks a little too much like sloth from the goonies. i know she wasnt driven by sex because i knew about their sex life. our sex is really good. in fact, if she could go have better sex, id encourage it because it might kill her. im not propping myself up, i just know exactly what works for her and some things cant be faked.

anyway, she said she liked talking to him and enjoyed "catching up." ya know that pissed me off too. they literally have no common friends, so what the fuck did they "catch up" about?

Ah. Here's the thing. Why she did what she did has nothing to do with you. It's not about you or how good you are or how bad the other guy is. What did she get from her A? Ego kibbles? Excitement? Was she motivated by something darker in her psyche from some sort of abuse by shit fucker AP? Why was she susceptible to the A in the fist place. Again, only she can answer and until she gets those answers, you have a recipe for disaster on your hands.

aside from her telling me something, i believe I've exhausted every option i have of finding shit out.

Hmmmm... I beg to differ. When you told OBS and she started digging on her end to find out the truth, you know the other set of eyes we were telling you about that can help kill an A, what did she find? Did she happen to retrieve info on her end and share with you? Doesn't happen in every case but it does happen here a lot where the two betrayeds can find out a lot more than one. NOT the main reason you should tell her but definitely has potential to be a benefit. How's that avenue working out for you?

We know this is some hard shit. You have taken a few minor steps. Keep going. Get off your ass and arm yourself with knowledge. Right now there should be no R and no D, unless you know this is a deal breaker for you which it doesn't sound like it is. But please get you and your kids out of infidelity. What's the harm in finding out what the laws in your state are regrading reconciliation, separation, and divorce? For example, in New York you have to be separated for a whole year before you can get a D. That certainly puts a cramp in the style of D for some people (my parents included). What are the laws in your state regarding infidelity? What if she bring her AP around your kids later? What legal action can you do then? C'mon man. Make that call and get it out of the way. Knowledge is power.

yop

aside from her telling me something, i believe I've exhausted every option i have of finding shit out.

That's more rugsweeping, the pain. And you know it too.

As many others have suggested, have you hired a PI? Scheduled a polygraph? Installed DrFone to recover deleted texts?

Understand this: You CANNOT rely on a WS to tell you the complete truth. You simply CANNOT. When I confronted my WS, he admitted to less than 10% of what he had done. And, he only admitted the things for which I had proof. It was only after we separated that I got more trickle truth. To this day, I'd say I discovered (by his admission and my sleuthing) only about 80% of the truth.

I'll say it again - you cannot reconcile without the truth and lots of hard work. Rugsweeping may seem like the path of least resistance, but it will destroy your very soul. We call it "death by a thousand cuts" around here.

You have to decide if you're willing to pretend nothing happened until it destroys you.

I've been following your story.

I just don't think that she and her sister got a hotel room, he got a hotel room, all at the same hotel, and he stayed for 2-3 days and they didn't have sex. Especially considering they'd had sex before. I just don't believe it. Sorry to be so forceful - you're right, it's not the sex, but it IS the lying. Which she is still doing.

And know that her sister is NOT a friend of your marriage.

Get the polygraph. And tell his wife.

T-Pain. My story:

Boy meets Girl.

Girls Cheats with Other Dude.

Boy rug sweeps and worships WW like an idiot.

Girls cheats a zillion more times b/c Boy had no sack.

Boy and Girl get divorced anyway.

Don't be me.

One more thing I wanted to add. See my tagline from DrJ? He's an fWH. In many ways we helped each other out. I do believe that a truly remorseful WS can turn their life around. They have to want to and be truly remorseful.

I point that out because I want you to know that many of us that are giving you advice are not coming from a place of WS bashing. I believe some of the best healing here on SI is when WS and BS come together.

That said, it's waaaaaayyyyy too early to know how your situation and WS are going to play out. That's why we say you have to get out of infidelity. R or D are TBD. You have to be tough on infidelity to get out. It's not the only way but being tough on infidelity and showing the WS consequences has been proven time and time again. Those that do the pick me dance or are soft don't make it.

That's why you lead and take control. You tell your WW one way or the other you are leading your family out of infidelity. With or without her remains to be seen.

yop

eta - grammar

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 6:59 PM, July 18th (Tuesday)]

I would love for her to read this thread.

Also, drfone doesn't work. Or at least not for me.

TPIR - PLEASE do not show her this thread or this site. This needs to be your safe space.

Unfortunately, she is lying about the sex. Cheaters are good liars. And by not telling you things, she is lying by omission. Also, the fact that she refuses to discuss it is very telling - there is much more to the story than you know.

And please, tell the other spouse. She deserves to know the truth. You will not be blowing her world up - her cheating husband did that all on his own.

I would advise against that for now. SI should be your safe place for the time being.

Instead I would download How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda J MacDonlad and make her read that several times.

Then pick up a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Excellent book on boundaries.

Start with those and see if she starts to get it and do some real work. If she does, maybe share SI with her later but not now. You need a safe place to vent among other things.

Also, there's no reason you can't grab the wheel and drive this thing using the advice posted here. You don't have to follow all of the advice. Take what works best for you and continue to move forward.

I of course would stress:

- Call OBS

- Make sure she follow through with that STD test

- Set up appt with lawyer and educate yourself (you can even let her know that you are going to see lawyer in case you don't make it. Don't use as a threat through. Let her know AFTER you have seen the lawyer).

for starters.

Keep SI to yourself for now. People are always tempted to tell their WS about this place thinking that they will just suddenly start doing the work. You can help get her a starting place by giving her How To Help Your Spouse... Also check out Jacob's Letter in the Healing library.

yop

You are teaching your children what a relationship should look like. Let that sink in for a bit. They will try to recreate this hot mess in their own adult lives.

Dude. Normal women don't pull the shit this bitch pulled on you. She's not right.

You see the tip of the iceberg. Trust me, there's more.

I would love for her to read this thread.

Know you're joking. Know you'd just like her to see this stream of sage wisdom. Know you'd just like her to see that you are receiving many suggestions that she would not like.

But just to be certain ~ don't share SI with her. Keep this a safe place. Even in a moment of weakness or sorrow or anger, don't tell her about your refuge.