SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, thepainisreal,

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I understand your trauma; I do. I, too, was completely committed to reconciling, and went 100% into the "pick me" dance. I was unbelievably understanding and kind to her while she decided what to do. And I told almost no one, to "protect" her. The result was an abysmal failure--my behavior only gave her time to get her ducks in a row and leave me for him.

Turns out, my fears were all about me. I felt abandoned as a child, and would now do ANYTHING to avoid that feeling again. She was doing what I feared most: abandoned me (AGAIN). It reinforced the notion that I must not be loveable, which eviscerated me.

Now, NOW, almost five years later and after a ton of work, I'm in a new relationship with someone who just naturally fits me so well, it's stunning. And all the trauma, shock, and agony through which I journeyed make me appreciate and love her all the more.

I hope that some lessons I learned FROM DOING EVERYTHING WRONG, may help you. First, the not disclosing what was happening to all harmed ME. As my IC said: "Secrets beget shame. Keep them long enough, and the shame becomes you." My resolution to move on became stronger when I heard that; I wasn't going to be further harmed by choosing to carry that burden. It turned out that telling my kids and OBS was ESSENTIAL to my healing.

Second, you cannot "nice" her back. A marriage takes two; as much as you love her and want it to work, you can't do it by yourself. She is addicted to her affair, and being nice isn't the way to get her out of her addition. In fact, it ENABLES it.

Third, your wife has changed via her affair and the choices she made. I couldn't believe the person I married would do this. unfortunately, her affair had changed her--she was no long the person I had loved.

Fourth, more to the point, she never really was the person I held her up to be. She was very good at deception, as it turns out. I was very good at accepting that deception. It worked for a while.

Last, you WILL survive this, and come out better for it, whether you R or D. Know that her choices have nothing to do with who you are.

Ultimately, as much as we might have loved our spouses (and I absolutely did; failings and all), you cannot hold a marriage together by yourself. It takes two. And if she's unwilling (because she's addicted to her affair and has changed because it) there is no other choice but to protect yourself.

I understand your feelings; I really do. I had them, too. I can only say that the only hope for your marriage, is to act on what the good people here offer. You cannot treat an addict gently and hope they'll change. (Even with that, they may not change.) Being the most understanding and nice guy on the planet, unfortunately, guarantees that she won't change.

As hard as it is to imagine, your strength in dealing with her is the only hope your marriage has. She still may be too far gone; if so, there's nothing you can do about it.

But even if the "worst" happens, and your marriage is over, please know that YOU WILL BE OKAY. There is life after a divorce. It takes years of work and recovery, but there is life. In fact, there's strength, love, compassion, and joy like never before. I expect you don't know that now... Take it from those of who've been there. It will come for you.

also suppose i have a concern that telling his wife could make it easier for him to pursue my wife. may be hes cheated on her several times before and she knows it. maybe she told him if he ever talked to my wife again, she'd leve him right there. maybe she isnt happy and wants out anyway. i could be giving her the spring she needs to bounce. right into my fucking house.

I can tell you how this has gone for my situation so far. By speaking with the OM's wife, I was able to give her all the evidence she needed. It was not his first time to cheat on her, and she filed for divorce immediately. My wife's AP has tried to contact her a few times, including texting her that he was getting served with D papers. He tried for a month or so to sporadically contact her, but after no responses he has left it alone for about 3 weeks now with no attempted contact.

I was very nervous that without OMs wife checking on him, he would try to get my wife involved in the A again. And he has, but as far as I know my wife has kept up her end of the NC agreement. So now all it means is that POS is left with nobody, and his world has fallen apart all around him. I have heard he has lost a lot of weight and looks terrible. Great! I believe he was looking for and exit affair, so he wasn't concerned about his marriage necessarily until he realized my wife was not nearly as committed as he was to the future of them being together. Sure it means he can pursue my wife with no concern for getting caught, but then again being married never stopped him before...

also suppose i have a concern that telling his wife could make it easier for him to pursue my wife

2x4 incoming...

He just made love to her. How much easier should it be? If all that's holding your wife to you is him not calling her then your marriage is over. Period.

Nothing on your end changes. If she's going to leave you for him it's better to know sooner than later anyhow.

You've never said what the extent of the A was. Was it a one time meeting for sex or did they go on dates together and act as bf and gf? How did you find out? Do u have documented texts between them or did u somehow see them together?

Are you sill unsure it was physical or do you have proof of that?

it went on for around 4 months. started with calls that ramped up in duration and frequency. she told me they went to lunch twice.

she went out of town to see her sister who she doesnt see regularly because shes gotten married. she told him she was going. he went to same hotel. they met for drinks night one. lunch the next day and dinner that night. lunch the following day. then they went shopping and she followed him most of the way home. probably an hour and half drive to where they stopped. they sat in his car for an hour then he drove her to see his house which is about 15 miles from home. she went in his house, i guess gave it the once over and came home to her family. she was at his house for 5 minutes. something tells me the molester could have fucked her twice in that time.

she swears that her sister was with her the entire time she was with him. she swears she stayed with her sister and was never alone with him, minus someone getting up to go to the bathroom.

one of the most hurtful pieces of this is that our anniversary was 4 days later. i took her to a nice dinner. we talked about how nice it was to be alone together and how much we liked "dates." she got up to go the restroom and called him. faked a shit so she could talk to him for 5 minutes in the middle of our anniversary dinner.

now she knows i can check her phone. she probably wont be talking to him on that anymore.

she talked to him for about a week after and i hoped that maybe she had come to her senses. communication just ceased. we were awesome. things were great. then i figured out that he and his wife were on an anniversary trip and that she wasnt talking to him because she couldnt. i confronted her and told her i knew of her affair and i knew most everything.

i didnt know that he was at the hotel with her and that truth took damned near water boarding to get out of her. when i got that truth is when she turned cold. so that was about 3 days ago. part of me wishes i hadnt pressed and just stopped with her committing to not talking to him and me not confirming anymore. i knew it, making her tell me didnt do anyone any good.

although i believe there would have been no way to go forward with that lie still festering, i still want that night 3 days ago...

She is trickle truthing you.

You need her to provide you with a complete 100% written timeline of her affair, down to what color underwear she was wearing when she met him in the hotel.

This is a very small request, you are saying that you are willing to save the marriage at all costs - is she?

You need to rebuild from a bedrock of trust, otherwise IT WILL NOT GET REBUILT.

If she were as willing as you to save the marriage she'd be the one offering a timeline and for you to polygraph her on it.

What does her sister say?

Again. YOU NEED TO TALK TO HIS WIFE IF YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO SAVE THIS MARRIAGE.

There's a reason why you had to water board her to get to the truth. That's some pretty damning evidence right there and she knows it. She was trying to manipulate you and distract you. Good for you to keep pressing. That sounds like your gut knew there was more and you listened.

What does your gut tell you now? Is there still more? With that amount of cover up and that amount of time together... why would her AP go all that distance and put that time in to get nothing in return?

Have you mentioned a polygraph to her at all? I would be curious to see if she leaps at the chance to prove her innocence or if she gives you the standard guilty wayward response of I will not take a lie detector test because I'm innocent and your crazy not to trust me response.

yop

her sister and i havent talked other than a text to her, her response and my response.

i lit her up and asked how shed feel i hung out with her spouses ex like it was her. she and i are very close. she is executor of my will, god mother to all of my kids and gets the kids if my wife and i both die.

i am as close to her as i would be if she were my blood.

im hurting because if my wife and i also feel like i lost someone else very close to me.

excuse: mind you, they have known him since they were in highschool and were apparently close through her first divorce.

Thepain, take a moment and re-read what you just posted. Put a good, married friend in your role in the story and his wife in your WW's role. Would you believe his wife was telling him the truth? Honestly, would you? Because I'm not emotionally invested in your relationship I can look objectively at what your wife says happened and it does not seem plausible. To be blunt, I think she's full of shit and lying her ass off.

When there is an emotional connection between adults it almost always becomes physical. In your case, with a former spouse as the AP, the barrier to it becoming physical is even lower due to familiarity and the previous physical relationship they had as spouses. So, I don't believe you've gotten the truth yet, and if you don't take a strong stand you will never get it.

she hugged me on her way out the door this morning. i still smell like her.

FML

She is manipulating you.

sanibel

maybe i dont want the truth. i dont know. i know my sil stayed at the hotel too, which makes me slightly more comfortable with the fact that my wife didnt stay with him.

they really are good people. i dont believe my sil would have let her stay with him. eating and having drinks is terrible and im fucking crazy pissed that the sil didnt drag my wife out by her hair and threaten to call me.

only two people know if they fucked. shit, im sure they did. my wife is an absolute smokeshow and only gets better looking with age. if they didnt, he sure as shit tried.

i also suppose i have a concern that telling his wife could make it easier for him to pursue my wife. may be hes cheated on her several times before and she knows it. maybe she told him if he ever talked to my wife again, she'd leve him right there. maybe she isnt happy and wants out anyway. i could be giving her the spring she needs to bounce. right into my fucking house.

I had the same fear and probably expressed it the exact same way.

I told the OBS, and that caused him to cut off the relationship. It was the best thing I did.

Now, my situation is alot more complicated, and I'm still struggling alot with the situation because my WW moved out and blames me for everything. I think part of the problem is that I played the pick me dance and also my WW is completely playing the victim...

But please Tell the OBS... Wouldn't you want to know?? Our marriage fell apart in like 3 months during last summer. I couldn't explain it. It would have been great if someone would have told me say a few months into their affair. Things would be ALOT different now.

[This message edited by br549 at 10:26 AM, July 14th (Friday)]

she went out of town to see her sister who she doesnt see regularly because shes gotten married. she told him she was going. he went to same hotel. they met for drinks night one. lunch the next day and dinner that night. lunch the following day. then they went shopping and she followed him most of the way home. probably an hour and half drive to where they stopped. they sat in his car for an hour then he drove her to see his house which is about 15 miles from home. she went in his house, i guess gave it the once over and came home to her family. she was at his house for 5 minutes. something tells me the molester could have fucked her twice in that time.

Why didn't she stay with her sister? How do you know the sister stayed at the hotel? In the same room?

Does it make sense that they did all of this driving and then sat in the car for an hour with her sister there? Why would they have spent an hour in the car just talking?

Unfortunately, these are the types of things you have to consider. I know it's not easy and you are having lots of opinions/suggestions thrown at you, but please remember people mean well. We're here to support you.

I R'd.

I told the OBS...ready she knew, at least 2 months before. My WW's A was also 4 months, you can read it in by bio.

From you last post, they had time to build an EA, they planned a getaway. Sorry they are two adults, past-lovers, marriage partners. THEY HAD SEX.

They did it that night, the next day, the next night. Then followed it up with hour long talk discussion. Not to be crass, but you need to wake up.

Yes the PA will bother you. Right now you are in shock. Look up PTSD. This shit is traumatic.

If you ignore it, it will consume you. This wound will fester, and if you choose to do nothing, at worst the A will continue, what is left of your love for the M will end, and both of you will be done.

BTW the OBS already had caught them 2 months before. Before things turned into a full blown PA. Had knew I could have possible changed that.

SHE DIDN'T TELL ME. The A escalated right in front of me and I didn't know it was turning physical. MY DD had to tell me.

Tell the OBS for not only her sake, but yours. When the OBS knows he will dump your WW to save his AZZ.

Pain,

I read my last post and realize it came across too harsh.

I realize you are only a week out from knowing. You are in shock, and a bunch of faceless people are telling what you need to do. Understand we have all been there.

Even tho' my D-day was a long time ago, I still know how you feel a week out.

You feel dead inside, and you can't breathe. Really sorry you're here.

There are 4 responses to Trauma: Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fold.

All of us have gone through some or all of them. Right now you are in Freeze. Hopefully, you will get your head reasonably straight, and move to Fight. That doesn't imply violence, it means you take charge and move into the command seat of this situation.

The stronger you are the more chance you have to R. Weakness (doing nothing, or letter her dictate the situation by manipulation) will cause her to walk away.

Do not get angry, when speaking to her.

Do not cry or plead in front of her.

Do not give in to her threats of divorce

And never do a separation.

Some of the advice may seem harsh, but it will hurt far worse letting her control the situation.

Years later, no matter R or D you will hate yourself for appearing weak.

So, you think you'd rather be ignorant and strongly suspect you've been cuckolded than do something about it and take control of your life? Trust me on this one, you don't want to do that. It will eat at you as long as you remain "married".

Looking back at my early M, I suspect my W had at least one PA. We had a lot of stressful things happen to us, she does not cope with stressful situations well, and there were a few unusual attachments to friends or groups of friends that didn't sit well with me. No smoking gun, just a lot of little things that made me wonder. I should have pressed the issue when things didn't seem quite right, but didn't because I didn't want to seem jealous or crazy, or if I'm completely honest, lose what I thought I had.

The intervening years have been a mix of some good and some not-so-good. My position in life has certainly improved with time, but I wonder how my life could be different or better if I had been stronger back then. There is no question that the doubts I have about my W's fidelity have prevented us from having as good a M as possible, and I certainly don't feel the same way about her as I did when we were first married.

I spent too many years trying to ignore or kill the pain those doubts caused in mostly unhealthy ways (working and drinking too much, respectively), but in the past few years I've gradually begun to realize that is only hurting me. I've started taking better care of myself and gotten back into better shape (I'm 45 so that's a relative statement, but women seem to notice me more now, lol). I've addressed co-dependent behavior by investing time and energy in myself first, and I am much better off for it.

Unless or until I receive hard evidence she cheated, I can stay in the M until the kids are grown and then reassess the quality of the M and whether I want to invest any additional time in it. However, had I kept up my unhealthy coping mechanisms I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have survived to see that.

You have a chance to get the truth or evidence that allows you to be reasonably certain of the nature of their A. I encourage you to use every tool in your toolbox to get it so that you can make an informed decision on the M you have rather than the one you think you have. Don't do what I did.

You really should tell the OBS. She also has a right to know your WW was in her home. It's very likely PA occurred there because they went there for privacy. Shedding light on this with OBS will help her and is the right thing to do. It will also give you more info about your WWs true intentions based on her reaction.

Take a step back from this situation and see your WW for who she really is. Look at how she was willing to risk destroying another family and her own by trespassing on another woman's marriage and husband.

If you are going to have a successful R you both need to face what she has done. The question is can she really change? Thats what she needs to work very hard on so that she can be a truly safe partner and mother. She should also go to IC and you should be kept informed about her IC work.

[This message edited by whattheh at 11:15 AM, July 14th (Friday)]

The Pain....

Take a deep breath. Hold it for a few seconds.

Sloooooowly let it out.

Repeat.

I have the feeling that you are in fight or flight mode, that you are frantically trying to figure out how to stop time, to take in all of this new information, process these powerful and conflicting emotions.

Take another deep breath.

You have gotten a lot of great advice here. But you do not need to do anything at all right this second. Take five minutes, or an hour, or whatever you need and can manage. Just sit with it.

How do you deal with things in your life? I am a list maker. If you are, maybe start organizing your thoughts, things to do, things to consider, etc. on paper. Or however works for you.

Take another deep breath. Slow down. This is all horribly overwhelming.

What is the most important thing right now? Your health, physically and mentally, and your children. Take care of yourself and them. Maybe take a few days off of work. Or a few hours at least. Avoid your wife and your problems for now. Not forever, maybe for just an hour. But don't feel like you need to figure this all out right now. You can't. You shouldn't. You needn't. Just...

Take a deep breath, take care of you, and your kids.

We are here. We will listen. We will help. You don't have to do anything but survive at this moment.

[This message edited by FML13 at 11:19 AM, July 14th (Friday)]

I really need to tell you the obvious - have you EVER, in your entire life, known ANY two adults, of the opposite sex, who like each other, who have a history together, and who have the OPPORTUNITY... that didn't have sex? Think about it - these are adults... they're not teenagers. She didn't hang out the entire weekend with him playing checkers. And you know it.

I know that hurts to hear. And... in the end... it doesn't REALLY matter. What does matter is your wife is still lying straight to your face. That, my friend, is not a good sign for reconciliation. Now, as I say that, I do understand that it often takes a WW quite a while to come totally clean. And, in the early days after discovery, it is SO incredibly difficult to comprehend that the person you've shared your life with, the person who is such a vital part of YOU, is actually an out and out liar. I know - I couldn't believe it either. There was no way that my wife was leading a double life. Yet there it was.

As someone who has reconciled fully with a wife who had a 3 YEAR AFFAIR (and, yes - I absolutely told his wife, per your early question) I will tell you flat out that you cannot reconcile with someone who can't be truthful. All of the reasons you give for staying with her, and they're ALL valid, will slowly give way to anger and resentment. Right now, so early on, you're reeling from the discovery. You're still saying things and making decisions out of emotions - a desire to save your marriage and your family.

But it's true - your marriage is already gone. It CAN be rebuilt... but the marriage that you have valued all these years will NEVER be the same. Please take it from those of us who have stood in your shoes, the sooner that you accept this and move to protect yourself the better you will be down the road. That doesn't mean giving up on the marriage at all. It means taking steps to protect yourself: seeing an attorney to know your rights, demanding the truth (even if it's via polygraph), and telling the other guy's wife.

You have heard it so many times already - but telling the OBS has nothing to do with wanting to hurt him or his family. It has to do with KINDNESS. If she knew about the affair, wouldn't you have wanted her to have called you? How would you feel knowing that you were the only one out on the secret? Maybe this is his 10th affair and this is the last straw for her... yet your not telling her keeps her from making a decision that intimately affects her life.

There are so many reasons to tell her - but in the end, you do it because it's the RIGHT THING TO DO.

Lastly, the way you handle yourself NOW will sit with you for the rest of your life. Trust me. If you're too passive and too accommodating simply because you're afraid to lose your marriage... you will never be able to live with yourself down the road.

Good luck.