SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry folks for the lapse in posting. My wife woke up yesterday in a COMPLETELY different state of mind than the night before.

We had breakfast and coffee on our deck. She was kind and compassionate and actually APOLOGETIC for how harsh she was the night before. I thanked her but told her she had no reason whatsoever to apologize or feel bad. That I caused all of this.

We actually talked at length about compartmentalization. My wife has been in therapy before (when her mom died, when she had post-patten depression after our first two children, at other times too before I met her I think). So she knows a lot about the topic. She said compartmentalization is a normal coping mechanism, and it's fine when used "healthily". Her example of this was "my mom died. I'm having a hard day. But I have an important meeting, so I need to put those feelings, my reasons and the consequences in a box temporarily and put on my game face". She says she compartmentalizes all the time; she's doing it now as part of this process. She agreed emphatically with your assertion, ChamomileTea, that my capacity to compartmentalize "unhealthily" (read: destructive) IS THE MONSTER.

Then I had a couple of quick conference calls. And then INEXPLICABLY AND AMAZINGLY to me, my wife invited me to go to the spa with her!!! We took a nice drive. Strolled around the pool, had lunch, swam, and had massages and came home. We talked, she let some more anger out but it wasn't explosive. She talked about HER compartmentalization. About how her anger at my financial irresponsibility was in one box, and my extreme infidelity was in another box. She's been focusing mostly on "box 1" because it's more tangible, less of a "game ender" than box 2. She says she knows that the only way to address box 2, ultimately, is either complete foregiveness, or divorce. And she think she doesn't (never has) known HOW to forgive...so she's conflicted about that box and ignores it, knowing that if she opens it, she could explode in a way that would be irreparable for her. My email the other day, with details she DID MOT want to know triggere "a little bit" of that. She also said that her 90-day timeline is not a firm deadline so I shouldn't fixate on it. We sat next to each other on a pool chair. She initiated physical contact: she just put her head on my shoulder. God that was amazing. I kissed her head. I put my arm around her and we snuggled. I rubbed her shoulder. She rubbed my arm.

We ended the day cuddled up in bed and watched Game of Thrones. She asked me if I "had already left her". I said "god no. I'm never leaving. I never considered leaving". I think she was a little in the "ambien haze" at that point. Not sure. I said "we had a good day. Let's keep putting together good aye, one day at a time." She agreed (although I don't know if she'll ever that". She fell asleep in my arms.

I was devastated the night before. I think we both were. Then her kindness, love, and compassion yesterday was just beyond astounding. Man, what a roller coaster this is. She said she figured out why she wanted me with her yesterday: (1) she felt bad that I was so upset and thought to herself "dammit I went too far last night, and I can't let him go to work in this state. And dammit, if I can feel guilty and compassion for him, then there is more work to do before calling it quits, (2) "i wanted a day with you to remind me of the good times" and it was a good day. A really, really good day. It was what she needed as part of her healing process, and I was happy to be there as a part of that. And also, of course, it was a cosmic-sized relief and encouragement to me. Also, it was just plain wonderful to spend time with her, with genuine love and affection blooming again between us.

Who knows what today will bring. I don't know if she's going to see a lawyer like she said she was the other night, or not. That's of course up to her.

@BishyBish: thank you for your "happy birthday" example. That REALLY helps to clarify this concept for me. Also (and this is probably why you used that example), that situation is exactly how my EA with my "main" affair started: a simple "HBD" from a rando friend on FB. All my PA's and Ashley Madison bullshit cascaded and escalated from there. Like an alcoholic taking the tiniest sip of beer. Thank you.

@ChamomileTea: thank you for that detailed explanation. Whether it is perfectly medically/clinically precise is secondary...it makes sense and it's probably directionally accurate. I had no idea that's how it (likely) works. I'll explore it with my IC for sure and start figuring out how to train myself to compartmentalize in only healthy/non-destructive ways, and to....do all that stuff you said above (too complicated to try to articulate here again before my first coffee of the day). I don't know how to do all that yet, or how long it will take. But I'm going to do it for sure. On the ride home yesterday with my BW we talked more about this. I committed to her that I would, do three things in parallel: (1) NOT lie, cheat or buy things without consulting her, (2) do everything I can to help her heal; be kind to her, caring, doting; spend quality time with her and the family; (3) figure this shit out and retrain/change myself to only compartmentalize in healthy ways. She said "do the work...rip out the cancer". I promised I will. And I will. She also said "I think ChamomileTea sounds like she is a psychologist or psychiatrist". I agree! Don't know if that's true or not, but no matter.

Thank you all. Love to you all. I know I am only at the foothills of Mount Everest, but at least the mountain is starting to come into focus, and I am beginning to understand the problem. I have IC today and I am raising three topics: 1) this notion of mommy/son, 2) my entitlement, and how/why I feel so entitled, 3) compartmentalization.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 7:00 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

Sometimes I'm not sure why you share details of your physical interactions with your wife on this thread. It's more grand standing in my eyes. "See guys? I'm not a dick, she put her head on my shoulder."

She spent 17 years with you. She also spent many of those years playing mom to you, I suspect. Nobody wants to kick someone they have been a caretaker for when they are down. The mom/son thing is a form of co-dependence that has enabled your already pervasive immaturity to flourish unchecked.

When you talk about this physical stuff (which could actually be hysterical bonding), I feel like you're holding it up and saying "look, guys, I'm winning! I can beat this!" And it's so fucking glib, it actually makes me root for the extreme infidelity box your wife has. Why? Because you still haven't learned a damn thing. You're bobbing, you're weaving, you're putting on a great show, but you're still protecting yourself.

You don't get that this isn't an achievement you can "unlock". You have to surrender to the fact that you have zero control over the outcome, and I don't think your selfishness will allow that.

[This message edited by Bishybish at 7:21 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

BishyBish,

Thanks for your point of view. I'm just trying to express what's actually happening and what I'm feeling. There's no ulterior motive. I'm really not trying to demonstrated that "I'm winning". Maybe I should just write some of that detail in a private journal instead of on here, or just reflect on it myself and feel good / smile.

Sometimes I feel like no matter what I write on here, it's going to be analyzed and second-guessed and attributed to something nefarious or something other than what it is. Like I can't win. I'm just sharing, plain and simple.

It's also possible that you're completely right and there is something inside me that compels me to share this stuff and that I am seeking validation, and that that is part of this whole ball of sh!t. I'm open to that possibility too.

I'm trying very hard.

Just be authentic MCW. When you first started posting...and you were hurt by our harsh replies - it's not "bad" that you posted what you did...you didn't like our feedback but it's important we see you're true thinking so we can identify the faulty thinking and steer you to reflect on it.

I hope you are telling us what you're truly feeling - and not just what you feel will avoid negative or painful responses.

@BishyBish--

ALSO: I recognize that it's very important for me to be self-aware of the way my words and my actions are perceived by others (particularly my wife...my email the other day and what it triggered is a prime example of a failure of mine on this front). So your perspective above (of how my posts occur to you) is very valuable; I don't mean to be dismissive of it.

My wife and I had a good day yesterday. A great day. And we're going to work together to have another one today. And another one tomorrow. And if a good life is not a sequence of good days strung together (with bad days as infrequent as possible), then I don't know what a good life is. I'm not trying to minimize the damage I've done or escape the awful things I've done, but it's kind of how I'm trying to look at this, at least in part.

@SassyLee --

Thanks. I'm trying.

I hope you are telling us what you're truly feeling - and not just what you feel will avoid negative or painful responses.

I am. I really am. I'm here to figure this sh!t out, not to get kudos and/or avoid smacks upside the head.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 9:28 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

@SassyLee --

Yes, at first, I'll be honest...I got to the point where I was like "F#ck sassylee...she's mean-spirited, ill-intended, and non-constructive".

When my BW responded affirmatively to that one post you wrote, it rocked me to my core. Truly. I DID NOT GET IT. I thought I was doing all the right things, and I was failing and probably even making things worse, and I was truly fearful. Don't get me wrong: I still am. I still will be. Rightfully so.

Now looking back over the past month, I don't think that at all. I think you were trying to shake me and make me afraid with purpose: to see the things I wasn't seeing. I'm confident I am starting to. At a bare minimum, I am definitely more self-aware and discerning some concepts that are likely at the heart of my problem.

Thank you.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 9:33 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

I committed to her that I would, do three things in parallel: (1) NOT lie, cheat or buy things without consulting her, (2) do everything I can to help her heal; be kind to her, caring, doting; spend quality time with her and the family; (3) figure this shit out and retrain/change myself to only compartmentalize in healthy ways. She said "do the work...rip out the cancer". I promised I will. And I will. She also said "I think ChamomileTea sounds like she is a psychologist or psychiatrist". I agree! Don't know if that's true or not, but no matter.

Not a therapist. I've just got a really good book list and more incentive than I ever wanted to have.

Your plan sounds pretty good, but you'll need to make sure you follow through. Also, never underestimate how much damage has been done. At nearly three years out, I'm still in treatment for anxiety, depression, PTSD and still raw like an exposed nerve. Not to freak you out because that's not true for everyone. For some of us though, the betrayal reopens old FOO and abandonment wounds leaving us bare and exposed.

Stepping back and looking at the situation clinically can help you both identify problem areas, but the real work is processing the emotional data. It's messy and it feels like your world is spinning out of control, like you don't know who you can trust, like you can't even trust yourself. It's two steps forward and one step back. The highs are high, the lows are devastating. And it's exhausting, all of it.

You just have to hang in there, keep plugging away, do the work, and hope for the best outcome.

Sometimes this so feels like whack a mole with you because you are just not getting it.

Just because your wife had a good day doesn't mean you've made tremendous strides. She's doing what mature adults do, reflecting and owning what her part in this is, and how she's coping with it. The verbal assault she did was probably outside her character and so she feels badly for it. In the real world, that's what mature adults do. I left a twenty five year marriage to a narcissist. I actually spent time thinking about what I did in that marriage. I could have blown it off and blamed him for everything, but that's not a normal response. We should always strive to be the best version of ourselves at all times.

If you were truly where you needed to be, this is not where you would find yourself. Instead of overspending and sleeping around, you would have challenged yourself to do better.

You can't morph from being selfish to selfless in weeks or days. It takes hard work and constant diligence, at least until it becomes habit. Every day you should be asking yourself, what is BEST for my wife right now?

Sometimes love is painful and it requires us to go beyond our wants and needs. Get yourself into IC immediately and seek out resources for dealing with being a selfish person and how to change. The internet has ruined society, but does offer unimaginable high quality free things, like blogs, videos, etc. This you should be doing on your own.

Mcw,

I hope your IC explores narcissistic disorder. It's much deeper than simply being selfish. There are different types of narcissists and different reasons why they do what they do.

Additionally, don't agree with you wife when she says there was something you were missing, or there's a monster in you, or you suffer from an addiction. She is desperately seeking reasons to explain the depths of multiple betrayals you have put her through. It's simply inconceivable to her, so she will constantly try to find the mythical "why." It's normal and natural on her part, but you need to stand up and tell her no, it was you, the you standing in front of her, who CHOSE to do such awful things to her and your marriage.

You've said up thread that you believed you were a man of integrity. Although you now say you have realized that you were most definitely not. But, think back to just one betrayal, one instance when you had sex with another woman, then went home to your wife and family, believing yourself a man of integrity. Dig deeper to understand how you justified that ultimate oxymoron.

I truly wish your wife healing and peace, in whichever path she needs to follow for her own well being.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 11:13 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

Sometimes I feel like no matter what I write on here, it's going to be analyzed and second-guessed and attributed to something nefarious or something other than what it is. Like I can't win. I'm just sharing, plain and simple.

MCW, I understand your frustration. I'm not trying to attack you. I am, as others here are, trying to give you some perspective.

For a good part of your marriage, by your own admission, you have basically had all of the benefits of marriage, while shirking some of the greatest responsibilities of it--all while also being a liar and a fraud.

Now you face a real possibility you will have little to no benefit of the marriage and a great deal more of the responsibilities than you ever thought possible. You also might end up being divorced and having a whole host of responsibilities in a different way.

And my read of you and your actions, even when trying tells me you are not really capable of that kind of shift. Your problems are pervasive and deep seeded. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. But time will tell.

At some point, your wife has to open up the infidelity box she's avoiding. You should want her to open that box; otherwise it's basically avoidance.

[This message edited by Bishybish at 1:11 PM, August 18th (Friday)]

Sorry I've been off the grid for a couple of days. I've just been spending a lot of time this weekend with my wife and kids. It's been quality time, which is good. I'm not pushing myself / my presence on my wife; she seems to be welcoming it.

@ChamomileTea:

Your plan sounds pretty good, but you'll need to make sure you follow through. Also, never underestimate how much damage has been done. At nearly three years out, I'm still in treatment for anxiety, depression, PTSD and still raw like an exposed nerve. Not to freak you out because that's not true for everyone. For some of us though, the betrayal reopens old FOO and abandonment wounds leaving us bare and exposed.

Absolutely agree 100%. Follow through = action. Otherwise it's just words. I've been doing #1 completely (not cheating, lying or buying anything), but that is not even table stakes. #2 (helping her heal) - my BW mentioned yesterday that she is still committed to reconciliation, is "rolling with" the waves of anger, but that she really hates the anger, doesn't want to be angry...but she mentioned that she will continue to "listen" (she meant "listen" broadly: listen to words, observe actions, etc), and so far she hears what I'm "saying": i'm present, I'm engaged, I'm trying. #3 (figuring out why I did and what's broken in me) - had IC again on Friday (twice per week). We started talking about the topics I mentioned a few days ago: (a) the potential "mommy / naughty-son dynamic" [by the way, my wife and I talked about this the other day, she raised it. she thinks this is there to some extent, but was minimizing it the other day], (b) my entitlement and selfishness, (c) the whole topic of compartmentalization. Obviously way way way more than one 45 minute IC session can unpack, but we started, and the journey of 1,000 miles starts with a single step.

And I am definitely not understating / underestimating how much I have hurt and devastated my BW. Actually, I am beginning to compose my "understanding" email (she asked the other day when she'd get it.....#2 of 4: acknowledgement, understanding, repentance, demonstrable change). It is in this email where I will try to articulate my understanding of a number of things, including how much I've hurt her. The other night, she was weeping, sobbing, saying how I've killed our marriage, many other things like that. It broke my heart. it was like there was an anvil on my chest. Because I love her, and watching her suffer and roil in anguish is awful. I don't want her to suffer. I wish I could wave a wand and make it never happen; take back everything I've done. But I can't. I can just acknowledge, help her heal, and heal myself. Anyways - no way I am underestimating.

You just have to hang in there, keep plugging away, do the work, and hope for the best outcome.

I'm going to do more than "hang in there". I am trying so hard to always do the right thing for her, and to not ask or push or expect anything from her. As my BW herself said in CSCE's thread: "commitment to an outcome does not equal control". I am committed to reconciliation and to ultimately having a happy (though inexorably changed) marriage with my BW again, but I can't and won't force us there. She is committed to it too. She did not go to the lawyer on Friday at all. When I asked her why, she simply said "I don't want to."

@smokenfire -

Thanks for taking the time to comment and to offer your thoughts.

Just because your wife had a good day doesn't mean you've made tremendous strides. She's doing what mature adults do, reflecting and owning what her part in this is, and how she's coping with it. The verbal assault she did was probably outside her character and so she feels badly for it.

I understand. The verbal assault isn't really out of character for her (even she would likely admit this), but it was hard to take it on the chin (I did though). It felt like we were on the precipice of "the end" again (this was last Wednesday evening). Then as I said, we had a great day on Thursday. But I am not naive. In no way do I think that just because we had a good day, that everything is copasetic. I know this is a roller-coaster; a long one. With high highs and low lows. All I was saying is that...we had a great day, and that's good. And it's a good sign.

Lo and behold, Friday and Saturday had high highs and low lows. Friday night, she was furious again. We logged onto my Facebook account together (I have been off it since D-day), and she went through all my FB Messenger threads with any woman. She fired off notes to them about the fact that I cheated. In fact, all of those threads were innocent, but of course she doesn't know that. It was hard. I just sat, silently, answered her questions when she asked them. Filled her in on who each person was. I was honest completely. The next morning, I told her that even if people forward those messages, even if I am shamed, humiliated and my reputation is ruined (which I deserve), even if I lose all those friends, it wouldn't matter if it meant we have a chance to be together and happy for the long run. Whatever she needs to do to let the anger out, to feel some kind of vengeance or relief is fine.

Yesterday (Saturday) she woke up angry, but constructively so; like a controlled anger. We walked into town with our dogs, and sat at Starbucks for coffee. Well, she did. I am giving up all costly beverages as a way to help chip away at my money pit I caused. She was stern and angry, but not raging. At least 3 or 4 people we know came up to say "hi" and "why no more facebook posts?". She went off to do some errands, and we met up later. She was in a much different and more loving state of mind. She said she continues to be committed to reconciliation. She says she will continue to be open and "listen" (as I said above, she meant listen, observe me and my actions, and be accepting that they are genuine). She says she can see my actions, most notably my presence. She was affectionate.

Who knows what tonight will bring. If it's a good night, I'll certainly welcome it fondly. If it's a bad night, I will be humble and honest; I will take it on the chin; if she's weeping and sad I will comfort her; if she pushes me away, I will relent and go.

@Greeneyesbluezy -

Thank you to you, as well, for taking the time to offer your thoughts and perspective. I appreciate it.

I hope your IC explores narcissistic disorder. It's much deeper than simply being selfish. There are different types of narcissists and different reasons why they do what they do.

We broached the topic of narcissism and also sociopathic behavior. I've wondered "shit, am I a narcissist? am I a sociopath". He explained -- keeping it watered-down I'm sure -- that a sociopath has no conscience, ever. And a narcissist is completely selfish. And there is definitely overlap between the two, especially around empathy (or lack thereof). He says that everyone, from time to time, "visits those places", like a twisted vacation, but you return home. But when one betrays a spouse to the level that I have, the BS and others can often think "I live there". I'm in no way doing the conversation justice...he was just using a metaphor. Suffice to say, we are definitely exploring these disorders, because either way, I clearly have shown behavior consistent with both of them.

Additionally, don't agree with you wife when she says there was something you were missing, or there's a monster in you, or you suffer from an addiction. She is desperately seeking reasons to explain the depths of multiple betrayals you have put her through. It's simply inconceivable to her, so she will constantly try to find the mythical "why." It's normal and natural on her part, but you need to stand up and tell her no, it was you, the you standing in front of her, who CHOSE to do such awful things to her and your marriage.

I have told her that. It was ME. These were MY choices.

Not some demon or monster inside me that I can "abracadabra" away. My wife is a HIGHLY intelligent person and very in touch with psychological concepts. I believe (I'll ask her though for sure) that she was using this notion of "a monster" as a way to talk about it; a linguistic device, if you will. We talked on Thursday morning at length about compartmentalization on the heels of everyone's comments to me here. ChamomileTea said that THAT I AM CAPABLE of the destructive compartmentalization to the extent I did...THAT is the monster. That doesn't exonerate me; I totally acknowledge that I did these awful things and made these devastating choices, and I'm not like "phew...glad we figured that out". But when I talked about that with my wife, she was like "yes...that is exactly what I'm afraid of". So it seems that it is the beginning of figuring out why I did this, which is of course step 1 out of a million to making sure I never do this shit again.

You've said up thread that you believed you were a man of integrity. Although you now say you have realized that you were most definitely not. But, think back to just one betrayal, one instance when you had sex with another woman, then went home to your wife and family, believing yourself a man of integrity. Dig deeper to understand how you justified that ultimate oxymoron.

YES - this is the extreme hypocrisy I am working with IC to get to the bottom of. It will doubtless take a long time. I believed I was a man of integrity. I was wrong. Looking back on the things I have done, the hundreds of betrayals, I feel like it was someone else. That's NOT me. But it was me. 100% it was me. But this is tough. My actions don't match with who I viewed myself to be. And they don't match who I will be. But they are now at least.

Who knows what tonight will bring. If it's a good night, I'll certainly welcome it fondly. If it's a bad night, I will be humble and honest; I will take it on the chin; if she's weeping and sad I will comfort her; if she pushes me away, I will relent and go.

This is the most honest you have ever been on this thread. This paragraph above. Don't fuck it up by celebrating, but I'm happy to see this glimmer of honesty.

Mcw,

I'm proud of you for answering. Keep digging. Keep fighting.

I do truly wish the best, and no more fuckups.

This shit ain't easy.

BishyBish & Greeneyedbluezy: thank you.

Last night was a tough one...it wasn't so much "anger" or "sadness" coming from my wife. It was more like an admonishment that she is not seeing me doing the work of figuring out why I did what I did and how I'm going to transform.

She said I've been being kind and affectionate toward her, and spending quality time with her and the family, but that it feels like "an act". it seems like I'm just doing the things and "behaving" like I think I'm supposed to, and that it feels like by doing that i'm not really acknowledging I'm a bad man without integrity (and by extension, that I still believe I'm a good man who was simply behaving badly for awhile).

While I felt that she was wrong, I took it on the chin. I did tell her that I spent a lot of time with her and the kids this weekend because I wanted to. Because I am trying to BE the husband and the father I want to be, and should have been all along. It's not an act! But of course I can't make her see/feel that. I can just keep plugging away -- being there when it's right; backing off when it's right. Apologizing when I get it wrong.

I also acknowledged that nearly all my self-examination (whatever you call it...figuring this sh!t out, why I did what I did, how to change, etc.) is happening in the two 45-minute IC sessions each week. I'm not doing enough on my own. Maybe that is why she's seeing my attentiveness as contrived (?). For instance, Saturday night, as we were laying in bed, she said "you should keep reading CSCE's thread; there was more added over the past few days". Stupidly, I said "I don't feel like it right now. I'm tired". Wrong answer. And I corrected myself in about 3.2 seconds, opened up SI and started reading. She noticed the wrong answer, but she noticed the self-correction too. I acknowledged that been playing guitar (it soothes me), and playing shoot-em video games. That's selfish. I acknowledged that I don't deserve "down time"...why should I get to "chill" when I have so much work to do. Lazy. Selfish. She naturally agreed.

So I re-affirmed my commitment to helping her heal, and sort of realized that, while that includes physical presence and affection (when she wants it), that is not nearly enough. I need to do the work constantly. There is too much available time in between IC sessions. And frankly, now that my affairs and betrayal are dead (and they ARE DEAD), I actually have more time and mental space to devote to my own repair. THAT is what will help her heal. She said, quite clearly, that she doesn't need or want all the details of the affairs. She wants to know why. I do too. I remain dumbfounded and none of it makes any sense to me in retrospect; but I was somehow able to do these awful things and be okay with it at the time, even though I KNEW they were wrong. I am going to double-down on my efforts to get to the bottom of this, and "dig out the cancer", as my wife put it.

One thing she said: "you need to sit with the pain and feel it...experience it". I want to do this. I don't know how. What action to take. She said its not "an action". I want to do this...don't know how.

Any advice or recommendations are eagerly welcomed.

Thank you all for your continued advice and guidance. It is invaluable, and I really do appreciate it.

One other thing that is confusing to me.

On Saturday, she said she is "listening" (to my words, observing my actions) and trying to accept them as genuine.

She said she sees my physical presence, my affection my engagement with her and the kids; my efforts to make quality time together. I thought that was a good sign.

Then last night she said my physical presence felt like "pushing", felt like "an act". Like I'm trying to "avoid doing the work" and to just act like everything is "normal". That felt bad.

Confused.......

She said she sees my physical presence, my affection my engagement with her and the kids; my efforts to make quality time together. I thought that was a good sign.

Then last night she said my physical presence felt like "pushing", felt like "an act". Like I'm trying to "avoid doing the work" and to just act like everything is "normal". That felt bad.

In my opinion, she's trying to give you some positive feedback when she can because she feels guilty due to the co-dependence that as been built between you. She probably feels in some ways that it's good that you're making an effort, but she also does feel like you're pushing because I do think consciously or unconsciously you are.

You are looking for "good signs" or "bad signs" and yeah, that's natural, but it also means you're not surrendered to the process. I think you view this as a decision which you can drive forward with your behavior and it isn't. I know, that's confusing because it's like, well, then why should you try? The answer is, if you want a shot of any kind of future with your wife, you have to be fully invested in being the safe partner she needs, not just acting like it and then looking for signs that you have a shot.

The risk/reward ratio for reconciling or even building towards the beginning of it is very high. You could honestly do everything "right" and in the end she could choose to be done because she just can't get over the betrayal. But at least you will be able to say you tried.

BishyBish - thanks.

The answer is, if you want a shot of any kind of future with your wife, you have to be fully invested in being the safe partner she needs, not just acting like it and then looking for signs that you have a shot.

The thing is: I AM fully invested in being a safe partner. I'm NOT just acting like it. But it's clearly coming across as acting. I'm not trying to put the blame on her; it's something I'm doing wrong, or I'm being inauthentic. I don't know. Maybe I just need to stop trying so hard, and better balance the time/effort so that I am being appropriately attentive and engaged and loving...but not at the expense of working on my own problems. It's the solution to those problems that will REALLY make her feel (and actually be) safe.

You could honestly do everything "right" and in the end she could choose to be done because she just can't get over the betrayal.

This is super hard to swallow. I want so hard for her to BE ABLE to forgive me, someday. And hopefully to actually forgive as well, someday. Right now, and probably for quite a long time, that is uncertain. Maybe even very unlikely. I know I can't ask for it. Or push for it. Or rush it. Or expect it or assume it "eventually" will happen. And I don't. On one hand, I think it's natural as humans to want the outcome of our actions to be certain. On the other hand, that's not how this is; this involves extreme betrayal on my part and wildly confusing and volatile emotions. I guess I just need to accept that the outcome is not certain, that foregiveness is entirely in her hands, and being someone who earns the shot at forgiveness is in my hands, and to work on that.

Now I'm rambling. I hope that made sense.

I'm really trying to comprehend all this and to be the man I want to be. I want to be a man of integrity, and a great and safe husband and father. I'm not those things. Not yet.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 10:50 AM, August 21st (Monday)]

This is super hard to swallow. I want so hard for her to BE ABLE to forgive me, someday. And hopefully to actually forgive as well, someday. Right now, and probably for quite a long time, that is uncertain. Maybe even very unlikely. I know I can't ask for it. Or push for it. Or rush it. Or expect it or assume it "eventually" will happen. And I don't. On one hand, I think it's natural as humans to want the outcome of our actions to be certain. On the other hand, that's not how this is; this involves extreme betrayal on my part and wildly confusing and volatile emotions. I guess I just need to accept that the outcome is not certain, that foregiveness is entirely in her hands, and being someone who earns the shot at forgiveness is in my hands, and to work on that.

I get that it's hard to swallow, but you have to understand you made your choices. In many respects, you don't have a say in how she decides to proceed when it comes to healing. And you should want her to heal even if that means divorce for you.

If your marriage had hit a rough patch that didn't involve infidelity or betrayal (like if you were just not getting along), then yeah, you both would have more of a say in how rebuilding the marriage goes. But in this situation, where you have gone to the levels you have to betray her, you don't get to really decide how she recovers from this. You don't get to influence it really, outside of being committed to her healing.