SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey gang. New here, so please forgive me if I don't know all the cool acronyms or lingo.

Background: Married to my WW for 3 years. Were dating over a decade before that. It's been a month since DDay when I received a message about my WW from the BW of the OM. His BW found and sent me evidence of a probable A. It was a love note written by WW.

The next two weeks of my life were a blur, as WW gave me the TT treatment. First she told me it was just a friendship and nothing more. Then it became "okay we made out a few times but that was it" to "we were in an emotional relationship but only for two months" to "okay maybe things got handsy and it was actually six months" to now what I *think* is the actual truth:

She and the OM were in a continued affair for a year. They were meeting up in hotel rooms to have sex regularly (once a week or more). They wrote each other dozens of sappy love letters, in which they both talked about how madly in love with each other they were and how much they'd like to run off and live together. They even would have sex inside my own house while I was away on business. Over this time, I was constantly fed lies about her having to work late, which I believed because I'm an idiot, I guess. (I can say with reasonable certainty that this version of events is the true one because it can be verified by the tracking history on her phone --though she conveniently blocked/deleted OM from her phone before I could see any messages. She's the best.)

Back to present: Since being found out and coming clean, WW has been an emotional mess. She is now desperate to save the M, dragging me to MC and getting me to agree not to make a final decision on D for another few months. She has discontinued contact with the OM (as far as I know, anyway) and shared access with me to all of her accounts (again, as far as I know). We're living separately right now, but whenever we talk she's always asking me what I need from her: What it would take to save this M, because she's willing to do anything.

My biggest concern with WW is that I can't tell what's genuine remorse and what's regret that she's been caught. Some examples: She continually insists on calling this year-long affair of hers a bout of "temporary insanity," which to me shows a profound lack of responsibility (not to mention a profound misunderstanding of what temporary insanity actually is). Or, she'll give me access to her phone to check as I see fit, but then become upset/offended if I read text messages between her and her parents because they're "not relevant." Stuff like that, you know?

Also, I've given myself this upcoming due-date by which time I'm to decide on D. But how do I know when I'm in a healthy enough state of mind to make the decision? Right now, I want to file the D and move on with my life / career. But is that my impulsive side talking? Is it my intuition guiding me?

Who's been in my boat before and could provide some guidance? Show of hands?

Hello Luxury. I'm new here too, although my DD was nearly 2 years ago. So sorry you're going through this.

TT is the worst. It feels like a brand new betrayal all over again each time new information comes to light.

I did experience TT for a couple of months. And every now and then little insignificant pieces have been brought to light that just made all the pain and anger surface again.

IMO, you are way too traumatized and emotional to make any decisions right now. I would suggest waiting a few weeks to a few months to make any life altering decisions. And I definitely recommend processing it all with an IC and trusted friends.

Aside from the TT, it sounds like your WW may be starting to show real signs of remorse. But time will tell. I heard a lot of the same things, but there wasn't a lot of follow through at first. So wait and watch. Does she make promises and keep them? Does she get defensive when you question her? And I think some painful conversations with her need to happen where you tell her that calling her A a temporary insanity not only sounds like her shirking responsibility, but you don't like it and want to call it what it truly is...selfish, destructive behavior. Also that she can't be truly remorseful and trusted if she gets defensive and fights transparency.

Many will suggest you have her take a polygraph to verify that she has told you everything and is taking full responsibility and willing to do whatever it takes to make amends.

Hope this helps.

Hi LJO

Welcome to the best club no one wants to be in. Sorry you find yourself here, but you will get a lot of great of advice from others that have trod the same path you now going down.

I'm only a newbie but can honestly say this site will bring you into contact with some truly awesome people who have saved my sanity over and over again.

You sound stronger than I was at the start, which is a really good thing. I made every mistake a BS can make when I first started to try and deal with the incredible pain that goes hand in hand with finding out your heart, soul, dreams and future just got sliced diced and minced.

Until someone more experienced comes online I would recommend the following:

1. Read everything in the healing library.

2. Read everything in the 'Just Found Out' forum that has a target symbol next to it.

3. Don't put pressure on yourself to make any decisions about the future of your relationship right now. (But starting D proceedings isn't a bad move as it shows your WW how seriously you are taking this, and the time the process takes with give you a chance to get your thoughts in order.)

4. Get to your Dr and get tested for STDs.

5. Try to accept that cheaters lie a lot - there's probably more bad news to come yet.

6. Know that none of her choices are your fault. At all. If she was unhappy about things there's a hundred other ways to deal with such problems...but she chose to cheat...there's something in her core values that is badly broken and only she can decide to fix that.

7. Totally up to you if you want to offer her the gift of attempting to reconcile. If you don't, no worries, for many of us here what she's done is a 100% deal breaker - it's not a fault on you, it's a pure consequence of the choices she made.

8. Before even trying marriage counselling (MC) she should get her cheating lying broken arse into Individual Councelling (IC) and understand exactly what caused her to cross the moral boundaries she did. Until she realises the faults in her decision making process there is very very high risk she will simple do this again.

We are all here for you my friend. Keep strong and lean on the experience of others here.

Right now, I want to file the D and move on with my life / career. But is that my impulsive side talking? Is it my intuition guiding me?

While many of us need time to know if we're making the right decision, others are blessed with clarity from the beginning. IOW, they know from the off it's going to be a deal-breaker.

Your WW wasn't "temporarily insane" unless she'd had a psychotic break for more than a year, like she thought she was an eggplant or something. More likely, she was lost in her fantasy and didn't consider the ramifications of being caught out.

Words are meaningless at this point. It's all about observable actions. So, if you want R, take the time to see what she does, not what she says. But if you want D, that's your right at any time. She effectively terminated the marriage when she stepped out of it. You don't owe her a waiting period.

Welcome Luxury. I am sorry you find yourself here, but there are some great posters here . First off know that you are not an idiot. You trusted your wife and she used that trust against you to betray you. That's on her. Nothing you did caused your wife to cheat.

As much as it seems like a time of "temporary insanity" ,(my wife try using this theory), the reality it it was a period of time that took a lot of thought and energy to pull off such a betrayal. This is a gap in character that caused this not insanity. I would highly recommend she get into IC to figure out where that gap is and what she can do to fix it. I would also consider stopping MC because you aren't ready for that yet. Your wife has work to do in IC first.

As to whether your wife is being remorseful, the best gauge is making sure her action matches her words. Watch her actions, they will tell you if she is truly remorseful. What is she doing to become a safe partner? If she truly wants to save the marriage, she will move mountains to make that happen. I highly recommend you guys read a book called " how to help your spouse heal after your affair" by Linda McDonald. There is some great information in there.

As far as whether to D or R all I can say is when the time comes ,you will know. There is no shame in either choice and that is one only you can make. One thing to consider is you have only been married 3 years . She started cheating in year 2 . This is supposed to be your honeymoon period when you guys are still showing each other your best. How is she going to cope when things like kids,financial worries and other bumps that come our way in life?

[This message edited by 1survivor at 6:38 AM, August 6th (Sunday)]

I'm sorry you're here... I'm going to be brief with me advice--only 3 mos out myself. Don't give yourself an arbitrary date to decide on this--it's too big a decision and when you know, you'll regardless of the calendar. Don't go to MC for awhile. Go alone, IC. When you're ready, invite your wife. Demand she open all accounts so you can check her stuff at anytime. Demand contact from her at any point during the day so

You know where she is. Ask questions. A lot of them but avoid sex details. I did a lot of that and regret it now. The mind movies are way worse, I believe. This is a crappy club to

Be in, but the people here are great. One day at a time, things get better...

My take on this... Your WW only came clean because she was caught by OM wife. The affair probably would have continued if she had'nt of been caught. If no children I would think long and hard about staying with this woman. The amount of time that it would take you to recover from this would more than likely surpass the time you've been married. Definitely a character flaw that would allow her to think this is ok so soon in the marriage. What is she going to do when real pressures come into play such as children, illnesses, and other chaotic events that happen more frequently than we would like, etc.

You don't need a poly, you have plenty of evidence to judge her actions already. If it were me I would file for D and give her the time for the D to go through to convince you otherwise. The D can be stopped at anytime.

Hey thanks everybody for the replies. I'm glad to hear that there seems to be agreement that we shouldn't be in MC. Honestly it feels like a waste of my time and money to go. WW has started IC. I suppose I can look into it for myself, too. Ugh. I just don't want to, you know? Sounds like a chore.

Regarding WW's actions from here on out being the true barometer of if she's showing genuine remorse-- it's a bit difficult because as I said we're living separately. We do a daily check-in phone call every night, but other than that we don't really talk. (I told her I need my space and she has been respecting that.) So, it's kind of hard for her to show me through actions that she's serious. As is stands now I maybe see her in person twice a week.

We're living separately right now, but whenever we talk she's always asking me what I need from her: What it would take to save this M, because she's willing to do anything.

First ask her why she wants to save the marriage, and it can't be a simple "I love you" or "Temp insanity" . Her answer needs to be well thought out and from the heart. Maybe give her a writing assignment of a 1000 word report.

So she starts banging the OM soon after your marriage but now that she got caught she now want you to fix it by telling her what to do. Sounds like you are rethinking the relationship as well you should.

Why did it take 10 years to decide to marry?

Are you sure that she was faithful during those 10 years?

Do you really want to reconcile or is ti time to move on?

So she's blaming the affair on temporary insanity? Is that her only reason? If that's true, then I have serious doubts about the future (happening again), because the real reason is she did it because she wanted to. She did it because she felt like it, it was fun, it felt good, and she thought she would be able to get away with it. Period. Forget the consequences. Forgot your pain. Only her pleasure was her focus. That's a tough pill to swallow, believe me, because it is what I had to come to terms with when I found out about my husband's affairs. They don't do it because they're unhappy in their marriage, they do it as a marriage enhancer, just for extra fun, because they feel entitled, and that's very dangerous.

[This message edited by mharris at 11:12 AM, August 6th (Sunday)]

I am also quite new to the shock of finding out I had a WS and wrestle with similar concerns. I haven't given myself a specific date to make a decision about D but I have been advised it's best to wait at least 6 months, to let the emotions settle and give R a chance (because it is what I want and choose to do). There are times when R doesn't seem to be going well and I want to opt for D now, I think some of that is impulsiveness and emotion but some of it is because WH is not giving me what I need to heal.

You mentioned WW is emotionless, I can also relate to that. My WH is also emotionless with regard to me but shows emotion and cries because our sons won't see him and the younger one still won't speak to him; how can he cry about that yet not cry for me when he has seen me cry over what he has done to me? I am not a person who cries, ever. So it's not like he has shut off his emotions, it's like he has none for me. So do you think your WW has shut off her emotions in general or is this typical behavior? She may be too embarrassed about what she did and this is her way of coping right now, this is where giving more time before deciding about D will help, so you can see if that changes and allow her to show emotions and express real remorse to you so you can heal.

Why did it take 10 years to decide to marry?

Neither of us really believed in marriage as an institution or considered it a priority. However, after living together for a decade and co-signing on a 30-year mortgage together, we decided that we were both in it for the long haul and may as well throw a party and reap some tax benefits, too.

Are you sure that she was faithful during those 10 years?

I'd be surprised if there were any other partners of hers during the 13 years (10 dating + 3 married) we've been together. We had always spent all of our time together, and only in this last year did she start "working late" and finding reasons to go off on her own. But hey, who knows, right?

Do you really want to reconcile or is ti time to move on?

That's the thing. Since DDay, my emotions have been in one place: NOT reconciling. From Day 1 I told her we're through. She convinced me to at least wait 90 days before officially deciding. I guess in that time I've wavered a bit, from "I definitely don't want to be married to this person anymore" to "I strongly doubt that I want to be married to this person anymore."

So she's blaming the affair on temporary insanity? Is that her only reason?

She goes all over the place, honestly. By this point she knows that saying "temporary insanity" triggers me, so now she's settled mostly on broad brush strokes when trying to explain her reasoning for the A. She says things like, "I was just really stupid" or "I wasn't thinking at all." It's frustrating.

So, she basically just wanted to do it, and thought she could get away with it. That's your answer right there. I agree with you, it is frustrating. My husband was the same way. They don't have an answer because the answer is so simple.

[This message edited by mharris at 11:53 AM, August 6th (Sunday)]

IC is great, as long as she gets a good one and not some new-age snake oil salesman.

If the IC doesn't get on her about owning her actions then its a waste of time and energy...hopefully they know a bit about infidelity too.

Honestly, if I had the resources and support 30 years ago that I do now, I would have divorced her in a heartbeat.

I see so many people, both WS and BS here rushing to fix things.

Thinking that after months or years of cheating, involving hundreds or thousands of decisions that led to abandoning the spouse to end up in a bed or car or spare office having sex with someone new the immediate reaction is to put the marriage back together.

Maybe because that is the socially responsible or expected thing to do. I did it for a month then found the second EA to go along with the EA/PA and realized, fuck it. I'm done. And so was she.

So Jell0 I think that you are doing the right thing to think she (Reconcile) is worth it, will you ever trust her again.

Tell her your honest thoughts "I strongly doubt that I want to be married to this person anymore."

She may agree with that feeling.

If she doesn't agree, let her try to figure out how to save the M but you should file for D as it usually takes 6+ months to process. If in that time things work out, get back together or date after divorce.

But from little I know of your sitch, and her lame ass statements and seeing each other once a week my thoughts are D may not be a bad thing.

MC is a waste this point, In any event a few sessions of IC just for you and not related to the M might help get some of the crap out of your brain. I found writing a lot of what I was feeling got those thoughts on paper and out of my head - I found those papers a few years ago and thought about how fucked up I thought I was then and how good things are now. Then I shredded them.

Even though things didn't work out for me, I would put myself in the pro reconcile group if the WS is truly remorseful. Hell I tried for 6 years. The reason I believe that is I do subscribe to the common wisdom here that an affair, in most cases, is filling a deep void in the WS and the BS is just a afterthought to their needs

However I do think there are exceptions to doing it for them, and sticking it to you. In my case I had three. The first was SSeconds which happened on more than one occasion. The second was her setting up an interaction between me and the AP in the midst of the affair. In my case it was to fund a project he wanted to do. She walked around our kitchen while him and I discussed the project and I shook his hand and thanked him for his great work. I never could forgive this

The last is bringing the AP into the home and Into marital bed. That is just evil. I could almost buy it in my case as it was the only place they did it. He was a contractor working on our house and would either stay late or double back after the other workers left. She walked him past our wedding pictures, the pictures of us and our girls, and f##ck him everyday in the sheets I slept in.

I'm sorrybut waiting for you to take a trip and then bring him to your bed wasn't just for her, but was done to you This was not some affair sex in a motel or car. This was done to inflict pain on you.

I would ask her how she could get to the point of bringing someone into your house. She did it in motels. Why not keep it at that. If it comes back that it was convenient, don't buy it. It was a giant turn on for both of them and that's why they did it

My wife too was, and still is an emotional mess. I really feel bad for her. I do. But if it is a choice between that and me having my insides churning for the rest of my life. I choose her mess. She brought it on herself.

Before You even entertained reconciliation you need to ask and get answers to some hard questions.

I feel for you

I think I saw your WW's post in the Wayward Section. I posted a response to her a few days ago if her husband had received any rational answer as to why did the affair take place. Crickets.

Ugh. I see that due to this post, somebody has already gone over to my WW's thread on the other forum and antagonized her. Please, don't do that. It wasn't my intention to "out" her, and I don't want my posting here to become an extra point of contention. In fact, I was hoping that she wouldn't know I was posting at all. Guess I spilled too many specifics. Oh well.

Anyway, I should point out that, per her story, she didn't have sex with the OM in our *bed*. They did it on the couch in the living room. She rationalizes to me that she just invited him over to watch TV, and that the sex "just happened." Of course, she also went ahead and turned off the living room security camera before he came over, which to me shows that she at least had an inkling where it was leading.

btw, I DID call an IC today to set up a consultation. Maybe something good will come of that... or maybe I'll spend $200 per hour in order to just rehash everything I'm typing here. Who knows?

LuxuryJellO It is not my intention to antagonize your WW. I aoplogize for causing you any discomfort. I clearly identify with you and with what you are going through and only want what is best for you and your marriage moving forward. The advice and support you will get here is invaluable, and I would hope that you keep posting.