SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Seems to me that the central point of mils note is simply this:

"Don't let an artificial time line create more hope if there is none. Make a decision."

I can't read it any other way. So, you ready to make a decision? What do you expect over the next two months that will change things?

Since you are a comedy writer, you get irony. To paraphrase an old joke I heard at the Improv: A serial killer, a terrorist, and an adulteress walk into a bar. And the bartender says............................

GET THE HELL OUTA HERE!

What are you waiting for?

Lux.

Take what you need. Leave the rest.

Plenty here have reconciled and have maintained a healthy self esteem.

I love my husband. I’ve enjoyed my days with him immeasurably. I wanted my future to be with him because it’s what I wanted.

I have huge self esteem. I am known as the rough and tough child. No one messes with me, honestly. I don’t hold punches. The choice to reconcile was mine Not gonna say it wasn’t an internal struggle at the beginning, but I don’t regret a single moment.

Self esteem is not validated by just cutting those we love out because they hurt us. My self esteem would probably have cut off all family members by this point. We can keep ourselves and offer a path, for both, to follow.

Lux, you follow your advice and your heart. I’m young)ish), smart, professional, successful and fabulous. I reconciled and suffer no loss of myself.

You just keep on right now. I offer only the best wishes for you, whichever path you choose.

I always opt for R if that is what the BS and the WS want. If divorce is what you really, really want then that is the way you should go. But I have to disagree that R is a blow to your self respect. No one but you can damage your self respect. If you had been the type of husband that played the "pick me dance"; begged her not to leave you; promise her anything if she stayed; agreed to take her back no matter what because you loved her soooo much; and then R; you would have completely destroyed your self respect. You would have destroyed it; no one else. But you didn't. You kept your self respect, your honor and integrity. And if you want to try a life with her, you attempting R is no blow to your self respect. I have read that many WS, who are truly remorseful, turn out to be the best partners after an affair. This, because they have seen the hurt, felt the anguish and seen all they are losing, because of what their actions have done in the lives of those they loved the most. There is no loss in self respect in attempting R on your terms. Yes it will take years. You have to ask yourself if she is worth it. Is a possible life with her worth the work that has to be done. Divorce if you want but don't use loss of self respect as keeping you from R. Only you know, deep down in your heart and soul what you really want. I do wish you well.

Well said Lion.

A BS who gives the gift of truly working on R (because that’s all you can really commit to, that you will work on it) is one of the strongest type of people I know. But they should go into it with eyes wide open that the end result may not be achieved. That’s because too much of it depends on the WS and what the actually do to earn it.

And a BS who decides to D will never be blamed in my eyes for choosing that path as their marriage has effectively been terminated already by the WS. A person that can take that path out of infidelity is also brave as well.

You know, I've thought about this before. The truth is, if I met a new girl and she told me that she previously cheated on her boyfriend/husband/fiancee/whatever, but she's taken steps to work on her issues and is a different person now, I really don't think that I would hold it against her.

So, why do I still hold it against WW? Because it's personal.

Because this is not just something in the past that a woman admitted to. It is what his wife has done to him and their marriage.

Big difference.

Lux this is your life.

This is your choice.

There is no right or wrong choice.

There is no shame in choosing to get a D or to R.

There are no winners in infidelity.

Don’t let any one else tell you why you think and feel is wrong.

I am not saying Lux is wrong no matter what he chooses.

I am saying that I understand that it is a blow to your self esteem to find out that your wife has chosen another to give her body and love to while pretending to love you above all else.

I personally could not maintain a healthy self respect and stay with someone who had betrayed my trust and confidence for such a long time and in such a way. But that is just me.

Once I find out I have been lied to, I can never fully trust that person again. Without trust, there is no marriage. I am not pushing my views on others, just telling my personal views.

Again Lux, there is no right or wrong here. You do what is best for you. And good wishes for a happy future.

Because this is not just something in the past that a woman admitted to. It is what his wife has done to him and their marriage.

Big difference.

I'll remind you that I am a BH myself, and I know that there is a difference.

That's why I presented it as a question for LJ. It's not my job to tell him what he needs to do for himself, but I can share with him what I think are the aspects to consider when making that decision.

I just read what you say is the most hurtful thing she said to you and it changed my mind totally.

You should divorce her and don't look back.

I just read what you say is the most hurtful thing she said to you and it changed my mind totally.

Yeah that was a special kind of awful, wasn't it?

This may seem off-base, even irrelevant, given the likely outcome of your marriage but: Have you asked your ww to put in writing her definition of love and commitment?

It would be interesting to see what's written.

Have you asked your ww to put in writing her definition of love and commitment?

Huh. No. Is that something that people do? I don't think I've seen anyone suggest that.

That’s just silly. If marriage vows mean shit to her what does making her write a 500 word essay on the subject matter?

No it's not silly. Give it a try. What do you have to lose ?

Because communication of this nature is built on trust. She’s just going to put a bunch of shit that she thinks that he wants to hear.

Plus, stuff like this should be admistered by a licensed competent MC only after individual IC has reached a point where it’s even possible and R is firmly on the table.

Still not silly.

It's not something people do and, yes, it may be silly.

But, given her knack for writing, perhaps he can glean further insight into her thinking.

At any rate, just a suggestion along the journey towards an apparently inevitable ending.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 8:39 PM, November 2nd (Thursday)]

There is some validity to figuring out how people would define certain things. It's likely there's some discrepancy. And that can get in the way of communication and relating to each other.

Things I've discovered my husband and I disagreed on, or used to define differently, until having intentional conversation: integrity, honesty, commitment, faithfulness, cheating, forgiveness, remorse, abuse, manipulation, defensiveness, unconditional love. The list probably goes on. But those are things I know we've discussed and discovered we were not on the same page.

ETA: I'm not necessarily talking drastic differences, but enough to get in the way when discussing/arguing about an issue.

[This message edited by Joypursuit at 8:50 PM, November 2nd (Thursday)]

Sharkman,

Can you prove his WW is “just going to put a bunch of shit that she thinks that he wants to hear,” beyond conjecture? I didn’t think so.

So, while it may be silly, as Midnight Run points out, it may glean insight into her thinking, and therefore be helpful. In any event, LuxJ can still decide to D, with this information in hand.

[This message edited by Drumstick at 9:08 PM, November 2nd (Thursday)]

I agree that there are a lot of silly therapy things therapists ask couples to do. My WH loved doing the love letter thing. The Infidel and I actually went to Dr. Janis Abrams Spring for therapy, the author of After the Affair. She started with a "caring behaviors" list and mirroring exercises to learn to avoid conflict. $365/hr and I'm listening to commentary on "immature" being an inflammatory word.... I got so pissed I didn't speak to the Infidel for a week.

But then I read Gottman, who thinks marriages are much simpler than that. He also has some distinct ways to think about/grade the health of a relationship that I found thought provoking (and I'm hyper rational about all this). I made 3 lists I keep on me that help me manage rages and plunges of depression. You seem to live in your rational mind more than your emotional, so give them a think.

1- all the things I've lost/he's stole in his love and sex affairs. I carry this and add to it so I can vent out things as they come. Italy is now dead to me there were 20 when I started. There are 38 now.

2- all the good things about the Infidel. I add to this too, and I find it does bring me balance. He clears my windshield of frost before I leave for work, for example. There were 4 when I started, there are 27 now.

3- all the questions and "whys" that I have. Again, I add to it and I can see how my thinking is changing. I've been everywhere from "im going to be so much stronger for surviving this crucible" to "you disgust me, NEVER touch me again".

Several folks have mentioned that self respect can be found on either side of the equation. I think that's right. However, it's a concept you get to define entirely. You only lose self respect if you let it happen.