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The only thing I haven’t done is talking to the OBS, which I’m not against, but don’t see the point at this stage. I’m not trying to pretend that I know more than you guys, but what’s the point of flogging a dead horse!?

I think you owe it to yourself, and probably to the OBS to have a conversation. Today. Just for you peace of mind. You seem to be headed toward D, but that can always change, so it would be good to have as much info as you can. In the future, you could be blamed for all of this by your kids and friends, ( that's how this works) and frankly, I have my doubts about an EA only. I've been here too long to buy that line, as many have thought that and been surprised at the extent it had been going on, me included.

She was always conservative in her dress, and was a devoted loving wife.

So was mine, and she had multiple affairs throughout our marriage, I never suspected at all until the end.

If you offered her a polygraph or divorce, which would she choose? She will claim it's a matter of trust, when in fact, is a matter truth.

Good luck, bro.

I still love the person I married very much

She not that woman. File the papers and hope for the best.

It is time for you to get the lawyer to file and serve the papers. Maybe once she sees the reality of what she has done she will somehow come out of the fog. But probably not.

My heartfelt thanks to you, and everyone here on SI for reaching out. I'm very grateful!

I'm not even entertaining the thought of her getting out of the fog. And even if she does, I don't know how I can get past all that happened. You guys say that it still takes 3-5 years to recover, even when you have a completely remorseful wife, but I don't have that fight in me anymore. I deserve to be loved because I'm a good person. In WW's words, from a note she once wrote me: "Some of the luckiest people in this world, are the ones loved by you. I'm so lucky to be loved by you". She's undeserving of that love I gave her, and it's time to give it to someone else.

Enlist the help of close friends and family. You should not have to go through this alone.

I'm so lucky to have three very close friends that have stepped up to the plate. They've all told me that they have their phone on 24/7 for me. I'm not alone.

I think you owe it to yourself, and probably to the OBS to have a conversation. Today. Just for you peace of mind. You seem to be headed toward D, but that can always change, so it would be good to have as much info as you can. In the future, you could be blamed for all of this by your kids and friends, ( that's how this works) and frankly, I have my doubts about an EA only. I've been here too long to buy that line, as many have thought that and been surprised at the extent it had been going on, me included.

Thanks again for the support!

If D plans somehow change (which I highly doubt), I will most certainly call. But I feel that I have enough info to warrant D, and the OBS already knows that her H is a scumbag. I've done my duty there. I really view this as a form of detachment, I don't give a shit anymore, I don't care what WW did or didn't do. As you guys have said, not my circus, not my monkey!

[This message edited by arbuom at 9:40 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

I don't know why the hesitation to admit this affair was/is physical? Everything you have said points to this being physical. If not the OM that you know about then someone else.

I told her that she lied to me, and hid things from me, and that there will never be a chance for us to proceed without the full truth of what happened. She said that that was the full truth, I offered her to take a polygraph to prove it, and while initially saying that she of course would take one, she told me “not to be ridiculous”.

In your own words she refused to take the Poly. You need more proof that this is a PA? You really need to lawyer up and protect as much of your assets as you can before your WW takes you to the cleaners. Ye who files first dictates how the D will proceed. Don't let her foolish behavior decide your future.

I don't know why the hesitation to admit this affair was/is physical? Everything you have said points to this being physical. If not the OM that you know about then someone else.

No hesitation whatsoever. I don't have the proof that it was physical, and I don't really care to get it at this stage. She doesn't concern me anymore.

In your own words she refused to take the Poly. You need more proof that this is a PA? You really need to lawyer up and protect as much of your assets as you can before your WW takes you to the cleaners. Ye who files first dictates how the D will proceed. Don't let her foolish behavior decide your future.

Can you elaborate on this? How does proving it was a PA change anything? I'm in a no fault jurisdiction. I already spoke to a laywer, and she told me my situation is straight forward. everything down the middle.

Also, how does filling first dictate anything? I asked my lawyer that same question, and she said it didn't matter.

I'm in the process of getting a second opinion just to be safe.

[This message edited by arbuom at 10:53 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

I would really appreciate any words of support at this stage in the game. I feel that's what I need right now. I have no doubt that I made the right decision to D, but the more I hear it, the better I feel. I never asked for the cards that were dealt to me, and I have to play them whether I like it or not. People have tragedies in their life in all forms, and you have to keep walking. One foot in front the other. Keep your head high, and know that you had no say in this shit situation...

[This message edited by arbuom at 11:22 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

Everything down the middle is probably what you will get as your lawyer says but even in that case there is some subjectivity. If you are sure this is going to D and your WW is in a hurry to get there because she wants to be with the OM you can use that to your advantage. There will be plenty of things during this that have to be valued and negotiated. If she's in a hurry you might get a better deal out of her now rather than waiting especially if by going slow there is time for reality to set in with the OM. Move as quickly as you can if she is in a "let's get this done" mindset.

Technically / Legally filing first for the D doesn't matter.

For me, emotionally I wanted the top of the paper to read Me vs. Her. I wanted to serve her the papers rather than being served.

If things had changed I could have stopped the process as I was the one who filed.

Filing gave me a sense of control during a topsy turvy time.

Arbuom, you can do this! There are 60k members behind you and we'll give you as much support as you can handle!

Arbuom,

Look up a thread by Pineapple. In many ways, a comparable story. You can learn both what to do and not to do from reading his thread.

I think you have a recoverable situation if that was what you wanted. But I also fully get it if you have reached your deal breaker and want out. It’s completely up to you. I have said this numerous times here on this site: The destination is neither R nor D, the destination is to get out of infidelity. Those two options (R and D) are simply paths that will get you out of infidelity. Fortunately, these paths share a long intimal stretch, and once they fork they run parallel to each other for some time. It’s relatively late along the path out of infidelity where they really start going in totally different directions.

R or D are both good ways out of infidelity. In R both spouses recognize the wrongdoing, acknowledge it’s existence, fully understand the depth and scope and both work hard at creating a marriage both are fully content with. In D you simply remove the cause of the infidelity – your wayward spouse – and then focus on YOUR healing.

There is a third path too often taken. That’s carrying on the path you seem to have been on for some time. To your benefit, you recognize it isn’t sustainable, that you are only trying to keep things calm, but haven’t dealt with the infidelity. Too many couples stick on this path without ever dealing with the real issues.

Keep in mind that the concept of emotional infidelity is relatively new. The phrase was first coined 1980-90 or so, and even today there are numerous MC’s, priests, guides and what-nots that don’t acknowledge EA’s for what they are.

I think your wife doesn’t recognize her friendship with OM as infidelity. She doesn’t recognize the emotional slope she was on.

Like Pineapples wife your wife insists there was no physical interaction. Just like we told him then we – the collective experience here on SI – seriously doubt that’s true. Not that it matters if you are determined to divorce, but realize this: To RECONCILE you truly need to know what you are reconciling from. IF you try to R then one major, pan important factor will be that YOU believe you know the truth and that your wife believes she has told the truth. If you decide to R then PA or not becomes important to know.

Just like I did with the afore-mentioned Pineapple I will add that MAYBE your wife is telling the truth about this not being physical. But IMHO that’s Powerball odds…

The go-to-book for emotional affairs is Not Just Friends by the late Dr. Shirley Glass. It’s easily available online and if you and WW were to decide to work at R I would suggest your first step would be to read that book TOGETHER.

But then…

Maybe divorce is the path for you.

What I will suggest is that you make your path clear to your wife:

“Wife. The present situation isn’t sustainable. You are totally free to go see OM, be with OM, hang around with OM and spend all the time you want with OM. But not as my wife. I am not going to control you, but even more then I totally refuse to SHARE you. With the emotions, you have already told me you have for OM and the emotions you have for me then at best I am sharing you with him. I refuse to share. So, I am relieving you of all marital obligations.

So, go see OM, be with OM and whatever you want. It’s nothing to do with me anymore.

I will start the process of formally terminating our marriage. I will strive to ensure the process is as fair as possible but since I am too emotionally attached to this marriage then direct any questions or comments to my attorney Mr. I Eatsharks of Eatsharks, Grizzlykiller and S. Windler, attorneys at law.

There might be a small window of opportunity where I am open for reconciliation if the correct actions are accepted. But that window is closing fast and I am fully content with losing you being the lesser of two evils, compared to sharing you with OM. If you want that opportunity you need to tell me clearly in a very direct way.”

Then walk away. Go watch your favorite program or make a sandwich. She comes along and says you are too controlling:

“I am sorry you feel that way. If we were working at our marriage, then this is something we could address in MC. Since you are committed to your affair then there isn’t any need for us to address this issue.”

No matter what she accuses you of the above is the standard answer. No matter what. You do NOT enter arguments.

She tells you she wants the Merc, the Cadillac and the house: “I am too emotionally attached to this marriage. Direct all your suggestions to my attorney Mr. I Eatsharks of Eatsharks, Grizzlykiller and S. Windler, attorneys at law.”

She tells you that you aren’t being fair: : “I am too emotionally attached to this marriage. Direct all your suggestions to my attorney Mr. I Eatsharks of Eatsharks, Grizzlykiller and S. Windler, attorneys at law.”

Finally:

People – maybe especially wayward wife’s – have a strange misconception of divorce. I have yet to meet a single divorced person that thinks they got a good deal in the settlement. Somehow having half of what you have is always less than owning half of the combined total. It’s been suggested you tell OMW that you are possibly divorcing. The goal behind that suggestion is twofold:

There is the moral reason. That in itself should be enough.

Then there is the practical reason: Somehow being told by your lover that no – they can’t support you to the standard you are used to and that maybe the lover might just focus on his wife for some time… tends to bring WW down-to-earth and out of the fog.

Bigger,

I have the utmost respect for you! I've read lots of your posts on here and appreciate all the golden advice and wisdom that youprovide. I really appreciate you, and everyone here on SI, for taking the time out of your day to write this.

I think you have a recoverable situation if that was what you wanted. But I also fully get it if you have reached your deal breaker and want out. It’s completely up to you. I have said this numerous times here on this site: The destination is neither R nor D, the destination is to get out of infidelity. Those two options (R and D) are simply paths that will get you out of infidelity. Fortunately, these paths share a long intimal stretch, and once they fork they run parallel to each other for some time. It’s relatively late along the path out of infidelity where they really start going in totally different directions.

R or D are both good ways out of infidelity. In R both spouses recognize the wrongdoing, acknowledge it’s existence, fully understand the depth and scope and both work hard at creating a marriage both are fully content with. In D you simply remove the cause of the infidelity – your wayward spouse – and then focus on YOUR healing.

I'm not sure how my situation is recoverable. WW doesn't even think that she did anything wrong! She doesn't even acknowledge the pain I suffered both throughout the ordeal, and more importantly when I found the book! And finally, not sure if you read my last update, but WW has made it clear that she doesn't love me anymore, and doesn't think she can even fall in love with me again. The way I see it, if she had any respect for me up to that point, she'll have nothing if I decide to stay and hope that she'll R with me. There is no way I'll be signing up for that!

[This message edited by arbuom at 1:41 PM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

Her words don’t really carry much weight with me. Isn’t this the same mouth used to word the wedding vows? Her I don’t love you and you being controlling… It’s typical marital history rewriting and typical justification. My advice stands as it is; if you wanted to and if your wife found a return-ticket back to reality then yes, there is a chance for this marriage to be saved.

Not that you need to do that. It’s TOTALLY your call. I’m fine with whatever you decide.

I’m a former cop. As a rookie, the veteran that was training me pointed out that it’s extremely rare that someone simply lifts his hand and acknowledges that what he did was totally his bad. No excuses. Usually there would be some justification. The drunk driver would insist that he only had two drinks and was exceptionally tired, the rapist would insist the woman wanted it rough, the murdered had no other option… Your wife is showing that behavior. She didn’t cheat because of insecurity or bad boundaries. Admitting to that would be too tough. She cheated because of things you did. That’s so much easier for her…

arbuom,,

Stay on course, you're doing okay. It's a long road but you're headed in the right direction.

My advice stands as it is; if you wanted to and if your wife found a return-ticket back to reality then yes, there is a chance for this marriage to be saved. Not that you need to do that. It’s TOTALLY your call. I’m fine with whatever you decide.

But how does my wife find that return-ticket back to reality? Her actions tell me she's not looking for it. You're making it sound like it's up to me to R! From reading other threads, it sounds like my only hope is when WW is on her knees blubbering and begging the shit out of me to keep her. I can assure you that ain't happening right now.

I suspect that my only chance to get her there is by telling her it's over, but I ain't holding my breath.

Stay on course, you're doing okay. It's a long road but you're headed in the right direction.

Your support means the world to me brother!

Try to not get too frustrated by those posters who suggest that it was probably a PA. Maybe not in your case, but for most guys it matters.

The broken trust in your marriage never really heals. At best you end up with a "trust but verify" kind of thing. But, lots of men accept this and are able to reconcile with their WW. The thing that kills reconciliation for many BH's is the sex - and that doesn't seem to be true in your case. That is a huge negative factor that you wouldn't have to overcome.

You ask if your wife will ever find a "return-ticket back to reality" - I think you understand that she might already be there. The best way to find out if she is bluffing is to file for divorce & end all unnecessary contact with her. If this doesn't move her to become the person you thought she was then nothing will.

Try to not get too frustrated by those posters who suggest that it was probably a PA. Maybe not in your case, but for most guys it matters.

The broken trust in your marriage never really heals. At best you end up with a "trust but verify" kind of thing. But, lots of men accept this and are able to reconcile with their WW. The thing that kills reconciliation for many BH's is the sex - and that doesn't seem to be true in your case. That is a huge negative factor that you wouldn't have to overcome.

Not frustrated at all. Actually, I often catch myself wishing that it was a PA so that I can walk away and NEVER look back. She would have made it easier for me to walk, and not have to endure 8 months of waterboarding.

I don't know why, but when she told me that she didn't love, and that she never will, everything else stopped mattering! Fuck her! After putting me through hell, and me taking it for the sake of my kids, why on earth would I want to stay with this lying cheater!?

arbuom,

I think you have acted with grace, clarity , and a keen sense of acuity and have done exactly what needs to be done. Your wife squandered your healing vacation reading the "love book" and then told you flat out that she doesn't love you.Everyone keeps focusing on the EA/PA component. So she loves another man more than you and he takes priority over you, but she hasn't had his penis inside her yet. Yeah ... that makes it so much better. I don't see it.

EVEN if she came groveling back out of the fog, full of remorse ,that's only half the equation. You then have to choke down the shit sandwich she served you and live with that the rest of your life.If you ever bring it up you'll be accused of living in the past and that you need to get over it. I couldn't do that, it would eventually drive me insane.

Stay the course and damn the torpedoes. You're doing great.

Your updated convo with WW is typical of an unremorseful cheater - no logic and no conscience. The arrogant way she dismissed your request for poly indicate she still believe you are not capable of any action. If you file her stance may take a 180