SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

arbuom

I think it might be a little late. But I would find it quite surprising if WW turned around. She's so stubborn, and set in her ways that I can see her burn her marriage down before she'd ever admit to doing anything wrong.

Only time will tell!

From reading a multitude of threads on SI and elsewhere I can say that often when the prospect of imminent D rears its head WSs do a turnabout. In crude terms shit just got real. This is part of the reason why serving D papers is so often recommended on SI even when the BS desperately wants R.

The strong statement of serving D papers and exposure to OBS, WS's family, pastor and friends is the likeliest method to bring WS out of the fog and back to reality.

Some WSs of course, want to walk away to unicorn land with AP.

Other WSs suddenly desperately want their BS back.

Still more want AP with the BS as plan B.

Filing for D is the correct course, then evaluate circumstances as they arise.

I would not want to tell you that either D or R is correct for you. I will say that false R is the worst place to be. Never ever allow WW to string you along as plan B.

Stay Strong

I'm not sure what she calls anything wrong but blatantly dating another man before your eyes is the biggest dagger to your heart and doing it as if she was a single woman

Do the kids realise that the friends dad is courting the other friends mom they must be as confused as hell too kids pick up on these things

You wonder what goes through their minds when this all starts

Have you ever spoken to this guy told him to back off your family

TimelessLoss

I'll repeat here what I told Pineapple since both wives are freakin' clones. A lot is said here about looking for remorse. And not mistaking regret for remorse. Instead, I suggest that you look for humility on the part of your W. That is the first sign that a person blinded by pride is seeing something different inside themselves

Believe me, I've looked for any sign of hope, and for a very long time. But all I found was a cold hearted executioner, that watched me stand in front of the firing squad, and told them to give it all they got.

That same executioner once wrote me a note to say:

"I think whoever is blessed to be loved by you is among the lucky in this world. You have such an incredibly loving heart for those you love and you’re so generous with yourself and everything that you have. I have always appreciated that about you - even through the hard times - and I’ve never lost sight of it. You’re a good man and your heart is so loving. I love that about you."

She will soon be among the unlucky in this world.

Widower

I will say that false R is the worst place to be. Never ever allow WW to string you along as plan B.

I'm living proof of that, brother. I often wonder if I've suffered permanent brain damage. My whole belief system is fucked. There were times when I stopped being able to discern the difference between right and wrong. I would sometimes have to confirm with my best friend that what WW did was wrong.

When I married WW, I could have bet everything that I owned in life on her fidelity. I believed with strong conviction, that WW would be the last woman on this planet to betray me. How do you recover from that? How do you tell the universe that newton's first law doesn't apply anymore.

I often worry that I won't be able to trust again.

[This message edited by arbuom at 3:58 AM, August 31st (Thursday)]

bobdobalina

I'm not sure what she calls anything wrong but blatantly dating another man before your eyes is the biggest dagger to your heart and doing it as if she was a single woman

I felt that "biggest dagger" and on several occasions. I recall a time early on when my heart rate was pinned between 90-110bpm for days. I wondered if I would get a heart attack. I had a recurring dream where I would be drowning, and then suddenly wake up in a panic attack and gasping for air.

Do the kids realise that the friends dad is courting the other friends mom they must be as confused as hell too kids pick up on these things

You wonder what goes through their minds when this all starts

They were together mostly in school context when the kids were around. Lots of parents everywhere, talking about all sorts of things. I actually often wondered if any of the other moms noticed anything going on between them!? There is one particular mom, whom I've actually known as a friend from even before meeting WW, that I've always wanted to ask if she felt that something was going on. By the way, something I hope to do after all the dust settles, is to tell all the moms at that school that POSOM is a certified AAA scumbag. I want him to walk those halls in shame.

[This message edited by arbuom at 4:54 AM, August 31st (Thursday)]

In the end, I finally got what I was looking for. WW has always maintained that she loved me, but

she finally admitted that she doesn’t love me anymore. And that’s all I needed to hear.

They say actions speak louder than words, and I knew all along that her actions clearly communicated that she didn’t love me anymore, but I guess that I needed to hear it. Even worse, at some point in the discussion, she practically said that she doesn’t think that she can fall in love when me again anymore.

I want to let you know that I hear you. We are not in your shoes or lived your life but after reading your whole post and then with finally the above ^^^^^ statement from your wife after months and months of living with this madness, I would tend to agree with how you are handling this, meaning it does not matter AT THIS POINT whether she will or will not love you again, she has spoken the words out loud that she does not, she is openly dating another man while married to you and at some point a BS just has to throw in towel and say OK.

It is mentally and physically exhausting to stay with someone who openly not only does not love you but looks at you with hatred and resentment in their eyes...... and let me say that I truly do feel you have tried to do everything to make her see the light, but she is not and it does not help you at all to give you any kind of wishful thinking as to whether she will or she won't ever snap out of this, right now YOU need to do something that helps save your sanity and to stop being disrespected by this person.

My story is very similar, my husband did the same thing, after confrontation and before that months of treating me exactly as your wife did, he said the same things to me, then finally told me he did not love me. The pain of those words, whether they are in "the fog" or whatever you want to call it still put the final nail in the coffin and I asked him to leave, we separated for 6 months. He actually did come back around and I felt weak and still wanted my family even though I KNEW he had said and done the most horrible things a husband can do....but SAYING those words directly to me? And the look in his eyes when he did? I will never forget that. Sadly I have never forgotten it. It never goes away.

Listen I know that you are being more then fair in how you are dealing with her, you have spoken with an attorney and found out it is 50/50, in fact you have more compassion then most BS's, I however don't think you have hit the anger stage yet, so this might change....but be that as it may there is nothing wrong with knowing that you have had enough, the pain of looking at and living with this person who is not the same woman any more and has ripped your heart out is far too much for you to take, at some point the BS has got to pull the emergency valve and get some clean air to breath, you have got to save yourself and your sanity and come to acceptance as much as it hurts you to do so.

Arbuom-

My WW is a cold hearted bitch as well who will NEVER admit she had an affair, even with all of the evidence I presented to her. She went around telling my family, her family, our close circle of friends and all of her co-workers that I was emotionally and mentally abusive, and was afraid I would be physically abusive when she was going to tell me ILYBINILWY. She had me thinking that maybe I was, being I was a drinker (had been our whole marriage), even though I never placed as much as a finger on her. Sure our marriage wasn't perfect, but I treated her extremely well and still got shit on . After I was able to pick myself up, clear my head and think - I realized she was just full of shit and was trying to gaslight me. It turned out after I swallowed my pride and spoke with my family, her family, close circle of friends and a few of her co-workers, did I learn that they thought she was batshit crazy and knew that her "male friend" was the cause of all of this. They said they knew I was a kind, loving family man and couldn't believe she was putting us through this. Shit, my mother told my elderly neighbors what happened because they were scratching their heads wondering what was going on - they told my mother that they felt extremely bad for me, and knew that I was a good father and husband and didn't deserve this. They could see through it too. My WW even has a lawyer (client) of hers, that said she'd represent her - but my WW isn't telling her the real story, and if the lawyer knew she'd run for the hills.

My point is, she will spin it any way she can to justify what she is doing. She knows it's wrong, but the fog will keep her lies on a perpetual motion that will only stop with the D. I would try and push for Mediation personally, but if it goes to trial, I'd make sure that you smeared her ass into the ground and made it public record that she was an adulterer. You owe that to your kids, because in the future they will need to be able to see with their own eyes the truth - your WW will never admit to them the real reason why.

You are not through this emotionally, it will take you many months to try and accept everything. She is NOT your friend, and you cannot believe anything she says. My WW lies about everything now, even the most petty shit. I have called her out at least 200 times since DD on lies, and let her know that I have absolutely no respect for her whatsoever. That she destroyed this family and 21 years over an excon, 6 years younger, $20 an hour, lives in his parents basement absolute loser. That's what I had to accept, and it was tough as shit. Now I am just angry about it.

But if I understand your proposal correctly, are you suggesting a form of the 180 and not telling WW that I’m divorcing? If that’s what you meant, then I’m not sure if I can pull that off.

No. You make it VERY CLEAR that you are divorcing. That’s what the “formally terminating our marriage” is. The trick is to be very clear on your intention and that it’s not conditional.

Way too often the betrayed spouse will make ultimatums where the next step is dependent on the WS actions. Like “if you see him again I will divorce you”. What I am suggesting is more “I am starting the process of ending our marriage [and the formal divorce is only a milestone on that path]. If you would want this marriage to work you could try letting me know and I will evaluate through your words and actions if there is a reason to try. No matter what the process has been started.”

And then you follow your words through with actions. Actions like disconnecting, removing marital obligations and getting a very good, clear picture of your rights in divorce.

About the divorce process… Be fair and reasonable. But don’t try to do this on your own. Not unless you have a very good grip on what your rights and obligations are and know how to present- and future value assets such as the pension and savings.

GoingCrazyNow

Thanks for the insight, brother. I really appreciate it, and sorry that you had to be one of us.

As horrific as this experience has been, I feel I've learned a lot about myself, and about dealing with hardships in life. Lets hope I don't have to use these tools again.

Bigger

No. You make it VERY CLEAR that you are divorcing. That’s what the “formally terminating our marriage” is. The trick is to be very clear on your intention and that it’s not conditional.

What a relief!

Way too often the betrayed spouse will make ultimatums where the next step is dependent on the WS actions. Like “if you see him again I will divorce you”. What I am suggesting is more “I am starting the process of ending our marriage [and the formal divorce is only a milestone on that path]. If you would want this marriage to work you could try letting me know and I will evaluate through your words and actions if there is a reason to try. No matter what the process has been started.”

Thanks for the clarification. I believe that I've made MANY attempts to get WW to work on our marriage. I've been patient (even though I'm the most impatient person on the planet), I tried MC, I tried to talk, I tried anything that would work. And nothing did. I feel that she is fully aware that I wanted this marriage.

Having said that, I'm inclined to skip this:

"If you would want this marriage to work you could try letting me know and I will evaluate through your words and actions if there is a reason to try"

My worry there is that WW will think that I'm trying to bluff and not take my intention to divorce seriously. I feel that that is the only chance (although I highly doubt it) for WW to break out of her fog. To me, the statement above is implicit, especially given what I explained above. If she wants back in, I'm all ears and eyes. I also want to be very clear about my intentions, I'm not doing any of this to try to break her out of the fog. I would be fucking crazy (and stupid) to set myself up for that kind of disappointment.

You see clearly now.

Carry on.

I'm feeling very sad this afternoon. I'm here on a beautiful sunny afternoon by the pool, with my beautiful boys and WW and everything looks normal! This was what I envisioned my life would look like, a happy and blessed family taking in the sunshine and not a worry in the world. It's so surreal that this will all come crashing down.

I'm determined, but not feeling so strong

My worry there is that WW will think that I'm trying to bluff and not take my intention to divorce seriously.

Actually filing and having her served is a heck of a way to show her you are not bluffing. Just get the process started. As Bigger says there are milestones along the way and time for her to snap out of it but if she won't then you are better off. The alternative is to wait around and see if she will and then what? Start this same clock going once she makes it clear she isn't going to stop the A? Get started now. You will feel better about yourself and this situation. She will see you are serious and she will change and you evaluate whether you can R then or you will get a D. Either way you will be out of the hell of infidelity.

Exercise, weightlifting is great. Do it at a gym at least for awhile. You need to get out. Do not tell your wife where you are going.

180

Go buy some new clothes and wear them. Change/upgrade your look. New cologne but very tiny amts,just a hint.

180

Go out. Daytime nightime. None of her business where you go. Just stay away from alchohol. Even if you don't have anywhere you want to go. Walk around at the mall, park, high school football on friday nights etc.

Do not ignore the small parts of the 180. Such as be pleasant ,just aloof and distant. She's just any other stranger. Start no conversations with her. Do not discuss relationship issues unless she brings it up. Accept no bull. Be ready to immediately walk away. Her problems are not yours.

Go out with the guys. None of her business where.

180

Immediately read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER by Athol Kaye. (This not a sex guide, haha) and HOLD ON TO YOUR N.U.T.S.

180

Thanks for the boost, Chappie

I must admit that I've been struggling for the past 24hrs. I knew fully that I'll have my ups and downs. I still believe, without a doubt, that I'm making the right decision, but I'm not as clear headed as I have been for the past few days. I was surprisingly almost feeling happy, and I think that came from me realizing that she's not my problem anymore. I felt free. Like I had the whole world in front of me. But I think the devastation that's about to happen is slowly sinking in, and my life is about to be turned upside down. I realize that my life has already been fucked by WW, but what I'm talking about is my stability. I've always been a creature of habit. I take huge comfort is the small things that I do, like sleeping in my bed, and parking in the same garage and saying good morning to my dear neighbor...etc. I hate change. and I'm about to experience the biggest change in my life. This REALLY sucks. And it hurts real bad

Also, a quick update. WW has turned again. After being extra nice post her telling me she doesn't love me, she's being distant again. I think this confirms my original suspicion, that she was feeling guilty that she might have hurt my feelings, and she's back to business as usual!

I'm leaning on my SI friends to offer words of encouragement and validation today. I'm so very grateful for your support!

[This message edited by arbuom at 6:29 AM, September 1st (Friday)]

My worry there is that WW will think that I'm trying to bluff and not take my intention to divorce seriously.

That’s why you follow through with action. You meet with an attorney and learn your rights. You get a relator to value the house. You start documenting your assets and debts. You start curtailing credit-cards and the ability to run up debt. You start planning on how to tell the kids. You start evaluating next steps AND implementing as you go.

The “benefit” of that one line is that it does allow your wife a possible path back but she must reach out for it. That way – if this goes on to a finalized divorce – she can’t insist this is all your doing, what you wanted or whatever. Even IF she reaches out then it also gives YOU the power to refuse – it’s too late.

Remember that guy in Utah that got his arm stuck under a rock? The one that waited several days before self-amputating rather than die from exposure and thirst? Think he WANTED to get stuck under the rock? Think he WANTED to self-amputate with a blunt pocket-knife? He did ALL he could to find an alternative, but when push came to shove he CUT. He got the job done. He did what he HAD to do – not what he WANTED to do. Something tells me that right until he hacked though bone he would have been open to any other realistic solution. That’s sort-of like your situation. You need to do what you NEED to do and that action might be totally dependent on your options at the time.

One key piece of advice: DO NOT TALK TO YOUR WIFE ABOUT HOW THE DIVORCE WILL GO THROUGH!!!!

Talk to an attorney. Find a solution that’s fair but reasonable. You can present that plan to your wife, but make sure YOUR attorney suggests what to present BEFORE you start talking to your wife. There are too many caveats and loopholes and you need professional help.

For example: You might think she’s entitled to half your pension. Let’s imagine you have 1000 in your pension so you offer her 500… Only that 1000 might have a future value of 1500 and she entitled to 750. Or it might have a pay-out present value of 800 and she entitled to 400…

Whenever I hear of a “successful” amicable divorce I usually hear of one spouse that got more than entitled to and one spouse that hasn’t realized he/she has been screwed… Divorce is this strange mathematical enigma where having half of what you had feels less than having half of what you have.

I must admit that I've been struggling for the past 24hrs

You are going through the same roller coaster Gw5263 is going through and he admit he still have some feelings for WW. It is natural but you need to remind yourself how your WW betrayed your love and care without showing any remorse. Unlike Gw5263, it seems you are not checking on WW any longer. And that prevent you from triggers.

Stick to your cause as being around with someone who care only about herself is only prolonging your misery. Also it is good to have someone care about you around to get help when you feel down. If I were you I would not show any lenience in any D procedure because of her lengthy betrayal and not feeling any remorse.

Every thing is impermanent. You only lose what you cling to - Dhammapada.

Love and emotions have little to do with it IMHO.

Once again; that guy in Utah… Think he didn’t have emotions regarding his arm? Think he wasn’t attached to it (pun intended…)?

Your emotions towards your wife are only valid in one context:

Do you “love” her so much and think being without her will be so hard that remaining in a loveless marriage and sharing her with OM will be easier?

I take it the answer is no. Therefore, you go the only path that’s available to you. Just like the guy that amputated his arm.

Bigger

No words can describe my gratitude for your support and wisdom. I will pay this forward, and think of your kindness to everyone here!

Everybody will have moments when you'll second guess yourself. Trust your gut, and these will pass. Carry on.

[This message edited by twisted at 9:42 AM, September 1st (Friday)]