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I Can Relate :
Long Term Affairs Part 38

Topic is Sleeping.

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 5:47 PM on Monday, June 25th, 2018

Sorry about the delayed reply...

Curious how you were able to "keep the faith" so to speak during that "long time" for your WS to understand the true consequences and begin acting truly remorseful?

I fully admit that this is/was incredibly difficult. Part of the problem is exactly what each of you have been fighting with - what do you do when your WS wants reconciliation but isn't really understanding of what that really means. For my wife, she needed to fully grasp that our reconciliation was fundamentally based on whatever it was THAT I NEEDED. After infidelity it is imperative that the BS heal. Without that, there will NEVER be reconciliation.

I think about that process a lot. My wife would do something for me... and then get mad/upset that it wasn't "enough." Or my wife would fail to understand how, even after doing the things I needed, I could STILL be upset. Part of it was her difficulty in understanding the depth of my pain and part was simply HER... to her, making dinner was enough to qualify as "doing something." She needed to get that it didn't end there. In reality, it would NEVER end.

I am honestly uncertain as to when or how the switch flipped. I wish there was a miracle solution. We walked out of a therapy session (that was absolutely no different than any other session we'd gone to), kissed and went our separate ways to work. When we came home - BAM! - it was just different. In asking her about this months and years later my wife said it just dawned on her that since she was to blame, SHE needed to LIVE for me. When I said, "Isn't that a bit overkill?" she said, "No - it's not like I'm jumping in front of a train... it's more that I need to make sure that you are happy FIRST. I had to start putting YOU first. Over me. So that when YOU are happy, you feel good enough to make ME happy."

I think about that occasionally and it's like, "Duh." I have ALWAYS put my wife first. But she never lived like that (FOO issues?). And I think a LOT of people live their lives not understanding what it's like to put another person ahead of themselves. So, for my wife, this was a revelation.

That lesson is why I tell people on this board that you need to be absolutely insistent, early on, that your partner learn to put your healing first. And you need to tell them, with total clarity, what you need (they won't know). And if they can't - file for divorce.

You let them know that either they change... and DO it... or the marriage ends. It has to be THAT crystal clear.

I should have done that way earlier. And I have paid for that with anger over how I handled things early on.

But not to drift off topic... you must make your spouse aware that YOU and the MARRIAGE are now the #1 priority - over family (yes, even your kids), work, your house, bills, etc. If you need to move to Brazil then he should be hammering in a FOR SALE sign in the front yard tomorrow. There has to be THAT level of commitment.

The only way to heal from infidelity, especially from a LTA, is for WS to prove without a shred of doubt that they are capable of treating you appropriately. If they can't do that, every hour of every day, then cut your losses and divorce. That means it will never happen.

Good luck.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 11:51 AM, June 25th (Monday)]

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8193687

deephurt ( Member #48243) posted at 4:10 AM on Tuesday, June 26th, 2018

Agree lifeiscrazy. I will add that it does take some time for a wayward to grasp that as well.

The selfishness is so deep and engrained that it was difficult for my wh to really see. Maybe part was me also, if only I had found si earlier.

I began showing my wh when I felt he was selfish. My wh couldn’t get much more selfish theme what he was. He put his hobby before me and our son, every time. He missed birthdays, family functions and anniversaries all for his hobby. The only day that was for sure free of it was Christmas. Not even New Years was free usually.

I did absolute everything for us, I cooked? Cleaned, took care of all the finances and errands. I even took out the garbage etc. all he did was go to work, Go to hobby pretty much. I worked full time and did everything else.

I began showing him what I felt was selfish and it really has made a big difference. I still see it sometimes though and it begins to worry me. I did have to ask him sometimes what was more important, me or his job or something else.

I have still seen some rolled eyes when the a comes up. I know he doesn’t want to talk about and I still see him putting himself before me when it comes to him being comfortable when talking about the a. I have always put him first. He has never put me first. I see him trying now. I wonder if lush came to shove, if he would put me or himself first.


so far successfully in R

posts: 3774   ·   registered: Jun. 13th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8194052

Onlyjustgetingby ( New Member #61255) posted at 2:57 PM on Tuesday, June 26th, 2018

I belong here in the LTA club that no one signed up for voluntarily.

My WW had and A for 2.5 years with my best friend(I wouldn't even give him the steam off my p**s now).

They then ended it, not sure who ended it, and kept it quiet for a further 2.5 years until I found out for myself. Nearly every one else from our circle of friends knew bar me, family and a few others.

It's been 8 months of fence sitting and I feel like ww still does not get the magnitude of pain inflicted on me. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be doing everything possible and more to try and work things out. But I guess that is where selfish people differ. I have told her numerous times that I want more intimacy in our relationship and the reply I get is "I've never been like that before and can't change to be like that now".

I hate this fence sitting.

I want answers to why it happened but every time I bring the A up all I get is "Why are you throwing it in my face again!" "You chose to forgive me so you need to forget about it and move forward"

WS's just want it all to go back to pre A without any backlash.

We got on perfectly for about 2 years before I found out.

Just wish none of us were here but hey ho that was not our decision

posts: 21   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2017   ·   location: North Wales, UK
id 8194250

hopeandhealing ( Member #63089) posted at 4:00 PM on Tuesday, June 26th, 2018


Yes! I have seen remorse grow in my WH over time, as he grasps the magnitude of his As and the impact they have had on me and the reality to face the awful person he was who was capable of making such selfish decisions. I told him very early on in my fence sitting that my continued presence in the relationship was an enormous gift after what he had done to me and that he deserved none of the mercy he was being shown.

I said from here on out, his decision making would be based on thinking of me first, as I had done for him to date in our relationship, to ask himself "how would this impact Hope? Would this be good for Hope". If he couldn't put me first, ahead of him, I was not staying.

He has said he is "in" until I tell him it is over and for the rest of his days, he will try to heal my pain and be the partner he should have been. So I am still here and he is putting me first in his decisions. He is being the partner he never was. I can see the growth. The other day he said even if we split, we will continue to do IC because he needs to do it for himself, to become a better human being and dig deep into what allowed him to betray himself as well as me.


Selfishness is fundamentally what allowed them to do what they did and I think changing that thinking takes enormous time and might be impossible for some. Putting their own needs first is their go to/their innate nature. Obviously our WS's need time to do things they enjoy, but if there is a cost or trigger to us in it, then I think it warrants open dialogue and perhaps an alternate decision if the cost is too high. We didn't ask to be here and feel this hurt day in and day out.


I am sorry you have joined the LTA club. It is a different beast and the double betrayal being with your best friend adds a whole different element (one of my WH's APs was also a friend of mine, the others were strangers to me).

I can understand the getting along fine for 2 years before discovery. My WHs last A ended 5 years before I discovered his many As. Though you can't live in it every moment of every day, I believe as a BS, we get to bring it up and discuss it as we need, for our own healing. "Why are you throwing it in my face again?" doesn't sound very remorseful. No doubt it is uncomfortable for the WS to talk about it, but there would be nothing to talk about if they hadn't cheated. The healing is on us and our terms.

Talking about it reminds the WS about the awfulness of what they have done. My WH doesn't love talking about it either, it reminds him of the worst part of himself, but he knows it is his job to listen without getting defensive. By doing so, I generally de escalate, or we can actually have a normal conversation about it. Our MC has also advised that he needs to check in with me and ask me about how I am doing with it. He avoids doing that at times, because he doesn't want to trigger me if I am having a good day.

Your wife's lack of desire to work on herself and explore your concerns is also not really conducive with R. It sounds like she wants to sweep this under the rug, pretend it never happened and go back to status quo. That will never happen. The marriage you had before the discovery is over. My MC likened it to our house, including foundation are gone. We can choose to rebuild (R) or not (D), but there needs to be growth and change for R. Neither of us want the M we had before, so it is up to us to build a better "house"/M and that takes a shit tonne of work.

Change is possible if someone wants it enough, it if matters enough to them. I wish you well and am sorry you are here.

Me- BW (45)
Him - WH (46)
M - 22 yrs, DC (20,17)
DDay - Aug 2017, 4 LT PA

posts: 274   ·   registered: Mar. 19th, 2018
id 8194301

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 4:40 PM on Tuesday, June 26th, 2018

I want answers to why it happened but every time I bring the A up all I get is "Why are you throwing it in my face again!" "You chose to forgive me so you need to forget about it and move forward"


I'm sorry to welcome you here.

The above is reflective of exactly what I bring up in so many of my posts. You are 8 months post-discovery and still just barely hanging on emotionally. Your wife is clearly unprepared to provide the type of support (physical and emotional) to help you a) heal but also b) save the marriage.

You will notice that I encourage the BS to demand - not ask but DEMAND - that changes be made by the WS. We have to remember that they, too, are human - and may not really understand what is necessary. So we, the BS, have to step up and TELL them. I hope you have made your needs clear.

But... and this is where the hammer drops, my friend... if your wife is still unable to fully grasp her responsibilities (no contact, total transparency, answering questions about the affair, providing appropriate physical support - I could go on and on) then you need to file for divorce. In short, your wife must understand - unequivocally - that her continued shitty behavior will NOT be tolerated. For you, it is imperative that you maintain your self-esteem by not allowing yourself to be treated this way.

Okay - onto a quick personal point that I think will push you in the right direction. It is now 6+ years after my dday of my wife's 3 year affair. You want to know what hurts me the MOST??? It's not her affair. It's the fact that I did not DEMAND consequences (read: better behavior) from my wife... starting immediately. I was so scared of losing her and my family that I allowed myself to be treated like shit - after already having her fuck some other guy for 3 years! How stupid is that?!?

I remember this SO distinctly. She was on our bed and I was standing at the foot of it. I asked her if she was 100% "in" on the marriage and she said, "Do you want me to lie? Should I just tell you that because you want to hear it?" I swear on my life that I will NEVER, for the rest of my life, forgive myself for not having said, "Then get the fuck out." I still can't believe that my personal self-esteem was so crappy that I'd allow myself to be treated like that.

You know what you need to recover. Demand it. If she can't get herself up to save her marriage (let alone the guy she married) then file for divorce immediately. You don't need to go through with it. But she needs to understand with absolute certainty that either she fixes what she broke or she can live somewhere else.

Strength works.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8194341

scott12 ( New Member #64278) posted at 6:09 PM on Wednesday, June 27th, 2018


[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:17 PM, June 27th (Wednesday)]

posts: 13   ·   registered: Jun. 27th, 2018   ·   location: uk
id 8195264

gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 7:25 PM on Sunday, July 1st, 2018

Did/do any of you BS in long LTAs have a sense of not being "enough" for your WH? I've been thinking about this for several weeks. And have talked to WH about it.

I don't mean to say that not being enough for him means I'm somehow not enough for anyone (including myself). I don't feel that way. I feel I AM enough for someone... and I KNOW I am enough for myself.

I'm not saying it's my fault or I had the power to prevent the A by changing - he could (should) have told me what he needed and then I would have had the option to meet or leave. I was obviously never given that chance.

I believe with all my being that I (and everyone for that matter, including WH) deserve to be with someone who thinks I am (we are) enough - or MORE than enough. So when WH says he always loved me, loves me now, wants to stay together, etc., what keeps running through my mind is "how can that be? I was never enough for you. I never met your needs... what your actions say is you want something different than me... if I had been enough from the get-go, why would you feel the need to keep ONE (of perhaps a dozen old GFs that he's talked about or introduced to me or even CAME TO OUR WEDDING) - and your "friendship" with that ONE - a secret for so long before the PA began".

Maybe it's you don't need cake if you had enough for dinner?

Maybe it's just wayward thinking - that nothing will ever be "enough" (which would include me, no matter my flaws or awesomeness) for some waywards - that I simply cannot wrap my brain around....

Is this pain shopping? processing? just trying to sort through this awful feeling. I've mentioned it to IC, but didn't go very deep on the concept.

Any other long LTA BSs have this sense? How to move through it?

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:52 AM, July 9th (Monday)]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3365   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8198165

WhyAgainWhyHer ( Member #63795) posted at 9:00 PM on Monday, July 2nd, 2018

gmc94, I totally feel like I am not enough for him. I don't know what changed, other than she has some kind of hold on him that keeps him coming back to her. When they first reconnected on facebook, I asked him about her and he basically blew it off, said she was just an old college fling. Yeah, except he flew half way across the country to see her just 3 months later. And swore to me when I found out months later that it was just sex. And now they are still together. I'm never going to be enough for him, never going to be able to satisfy his needs like she does. To be honest, at this point I feel like he was only settling for me. it hurts.

posts: 233   ·   registered: May. 16th, 2018
id 8198830

amanda123 ( Member #43207) posted at 10:04 PM on Monday, July 2nd, 2018

Hi Everyone,

Did I ever feel like I wasnt enough for my H. No I never felt that way. In fact if anything I was the person who did everything there was nothing he could want for. I do have to say I did sense his restlessness. His wanting to move house, to change jobs, or to start his own business etc.

Dare I say I am feeling happier than I have done in a very long time. I am almost scared to put it in text just in case something happens and it all goes down hill. H has been on leave from work for the last 2 weeks. Ever since that day where he dismissed my feelings of depression there has been a huge turn around in him. We have spoken about it and he has listened to me and is trying really hard to keep our connection strong by understanding why my thoughts and fears that keep me in that bad place. I know people say that no one can make you happy, that only you can make yourself happy, but I dont know about that. I can see that my depression really puts a bad or negative light on things. Him understanding and doing something about helping me by listening and supporting me makes the world of difference instead of leaving me to my own thoughts. I just hope it lasts.

posts: 1033   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2014
id 8198879

donna3 ( Member #44976) posted at 1:05 AM on Tuesday, July 3rd, 2018

gmc - YES, YES! I felt for a very long time that I was just not enough - not young enough, not skinny enough, not sexy enough, not (whatever was in my mind). And I could not let go of this for a long long time. but somewhere, not sure when, I decided to hell with it. If I was not enough then he can just leave. Take me, my age, my height, my weight, my (whatever) as I am. Now, I am not saying he should take bad behavior or whatever, but my basic person - take it or leave it. But it took way to long for me to think this way - over 3 years. And even then I still make some comparisons to her (I have never even laid eyes on this b*tch)

I repeated to myself a lot that i am enough, and if he can't see it that is his problem. He tells me that it was not that I wasn't enough. He just felt so bad about himself and wanted those ego kibbles that he felt were long gone from me. It was all so fucked up. Luckily we really have worked thru a lot of feelings and now I am his special, wonderful person. And I asked him once, why, why now am I this special person that you love so. His answer - he finally realized that I am more than enough. I am the one person who continued to love him and give him a second chance even tho he messed up big time.

Healing,in R
Married 39 years now, grown children
DD: 11/14/13,EA PA,TT
DD2: 9/12/14 found out LTPA of 2.5 yrs
Age 62 Yikes!

posts: 649   ·   registered: Sep. 23rd, 2014   ·   location: Ohio
id 8198979

gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 5:51 AM on Tuesday, July 3rd, 2018

Tonight, I found a different way to look at "not enough".

It's not that I feel I'm not enough - I do NOT feel that way. Yes, I have insecurities, no, I am not a beauty queen, yes I can be a royal pain in the arse. But I am me, I am awesome, and I AM enough.... just not for my WH.

Tonight, I used a different analogy - that he has some kind of hole in his bucket, and I would never be enough to fill HIS bucket. Maybe someone else could (tho not his AP), but I couldn't. however, I am more than enough, better than enough, and absofuckinglutely AWESOME. And I would rather be alone than with a partner who whose bucket is so full of leaks he can tell himself he loves me while fucking someone else.

Am I full of pain? absolutely. But I allow myself to really FEEL it and see it and lean into it.

Angry? You bet. But I know that it will not be forever.

Codependent? Yup, that would be me. But I can go to meetings, read the steps, work the program and find a better, more healthy way to relate to others.

Loud? bawdy? shrill? check, check, check. But I am also strong and intuitive, struggling and vulnerable, badass and baby.

I'm also just not willing to put up with more of WH's bullshit.

I love him, but he hurts me.

Even after dday, he continues to hurt me.

I don't think he's hit "rock bottom" and am no longer sure he will. Even if he does, I don't think he'd even talk to me about it unless I nagged him. I don't want to be a nag to someone for whom I am not enough.

A month or two ago, my IC (and maybe my WH) said, it sounds like you expect him to be a different person.

I said "Yes, I DO expect that. I deserve that. His fucked up choices have forced me to be a different person, so why doesn't he have to do that work too?"

I'm losing confidence that he can do the work - that he has the tools and ability


even if he did, will I ever get "over" this?

I just don't know anymore. I just do not know.

He lied to me about the very EXISTENCE of this woman for the entire 27 years we have been together. It's like she must have some sort of magic vagina.

My WH doesn't feel this, but to me, the very foundation of our entire relationship has been built on the lie that ultimately turned into a 9yr PA (and, arguably, 18 yr EA before the PA began, given his secrecy about her even before she got divorced). The result is that it colors EVERYTHING we have done. He can hold on to what he sees are good memories. I don't see or feel it that way at all. I feel the dark cloud of WH's desire to screw AP since the day we met has overshadowed everything.

I deserve better.... I deserved honesty, both before and after we married. I deserved honesty after dday (he was, like most things, half-assed in his answers to my questions.... and I fucking took it like a gift). And I deserve honesty for the few years I have left on this earth. I am worthy of that.

I'm just not sure a person capable of lying about a secret friend for 27 years is capable of becoming a truly honest person.

Maybe someone on this thread who has recovered from this kind of LTA can give me hope.... so far, I see a lot of BS working really hard through really tough stuff to overcome a cloud that lasted one night, or a year or two. This just feels like a completely different animal to me.

I love him, but he hurts me.

I am enough.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:49 AM, July 9th (Monday)]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3365   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8199092

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 3:22 PM on Friday, July 6th, 2018

Hi GMC. You asked for an assessment from someone who has survived a LTA - although my wife's was not in the same realm as your husband's. I hope you don't mind my honest answer.

In the early years after my discovery, one of the very few things that I was able to hold onto was our past. I could sincerely look at my wife and recognize our history together, our similar upbringings, our religious viewpoints, and our many, many joint friendships. I knew that, in the grand scheme of our years together, the affair was the aberration, not the norm.

This is the divide I see in MY recovery versus the longer, sometimes marriage-long infidelities (like yours). When a spouse has been cheating during the entirety of the marriage... or even for the majority of the marriage... there are simply too many holes to patch. Indeed - I think you have hit the nail on the head in your last post. I think the problem is not about whether or not you can be "enough" for him. Rather, I see far more validity in your concerns that are centered around the duration of his infidelity.

I'm sorry to say this... but I don't see how someone "reconciles" from this type of betrayal. I just don't. (Of course, there are those who would look at my wife's affair and question how WE could possibly reconcile). To me, the difference is the ability to look back on positive memories that are not skewed by the infidelity. And, in your case, those don't seem to exist. Everything back to square one has been tarnished.

I hate that. I am pro-reconciliation for those that want it and I hate that I can't give you a more positive message. But I see years ahead of questioning absolutely everything in your marriage. No matter how much work he does... no matter how deep he looks inside himself... he won't be able to give you back the entirety of your adult life.

My recommendation? Honestly? You ARE awesome. You ARE more than enough for any guy.

I would move on and start making new memories in a new life.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8201034

deephurt ( Member #48243) posted at 5:37 AM on Saturday, July 7th, 2018

I don't agree with lifeiscrazy.

For me, and many on this site, you need to treat the old M as dead. The a killed it, its dead. If you want to R, there has to be a new M. It has to be built. You need a truly remorseful WS. One that will make the changes needed to become a better person. Whether you can look back on your previous M as tarnished or not, shouldn't be a deciding factor IMHO. Its whether the person you are married to is remorseful and able to become what you want in a spouse. Is the new spouse, post DDay, a safe partner, and one your want.

I see my WH as the before DDay and after DDay WH. If he even hints at being that previous WH, I will know that R is likely impossible.

What I see is a changed guy. Or rather still changing. He has had to do work, concentrate on changing and implement those changes consistently to begin to make me feel like I can be extremely happy with this new guy.

I still look back on the old M and I mourn it. I mourn what it should have been and could have been. I mourn the pain from the A. I have load of difficulty trying to heal from it still......BUT.....I see my current M as extremely happy. I have a WH who appears to be the husband I always wanted and deserved. What I have trouble with is the mounting, healing and understanding the Old M but I am able to separate it. My healing is separate to my new M-not sure if that makes sense.

I still have so much healing to do and the pain that came from the betrayal is still alive and well. Its a work in progress but I am not willing to give up my WH. He has done work and as I see it, why should I give up someone who has seen the pain he caused. Is showing remorse and trying to be a better guy and maybe get into a relationship with an unknown. Someone who may never have cheated but also could in the future. You know the devil you know or devil you don't type of thing?

I do understand the hole in the bucket that is unable to be filled analogy, and I often don't feel like I was ever enough to help WH fill his bucket but its his bucket. I have my own to deal with. If his bucket has a hole, he can figure out how to patch it up. My bucket was severely damaged in the bomb that went off in my M and I am dealing with it.

I am an awesome person. I would make many men happy. I try to live my life with honesty and integrity. I appear to be attractive to men. I am generous and loving. I am enough. I do know how feels post DDay to feel like you don't measure up. That there is something wrong with you. I get it, I felt it, I still do sometimes. Its a battle for me to let that go sometimes but I tell myself all the time that its not about me. It never was.

Its definitely an issue for most of us on this site. Its natural and seems to be automatic for us to find a way to blame our own short comings for our personality damaged WS's. Its them, not us. Someone who cheats, has something wrong with them to be able to cause someone they supposedly love that much pain. They need to figure that out and fix that before they can be safe.

Fixing it, isn't overnight. The willingness to fix it can be overnight but the fix is a lifetime effort IMHO. eg. The selfishness that all WS's show is usually a life time of learning to become that selfish. It takes a long time to learn to not be selfish. I spent a lot of time, after DDay, when I felt he was being selfish. I never used to discuss it with him, I would just ignore it and hope to not see it again but not anymore. I tell him when he is being selfish so he can learn to see it himself and be able to fix it. Other behaviours-like looking any other women, have been a lesson for him to learn too. I point it out when I see it happening.

Thats my opinion anyway. I don't expect immediate change in personality. I expect immediate willingness to do it and the promise to never cheat again to be kept at all costs.


so far successfully in R

posts: 3774   ·   registered: Jun. 13th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8201364

gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 5:51 AM on Monday, July 9th, 2018

During a talk with WH the other day I said to him that the price for his support in our M/my life was too high; that it was a price I was never willing to pay. I've thought a lot about this over the weekend.

WH and I have VERY different perspectives about the impact of his A. For me, it has overshadowed all memories (as mentioned in earlier post on this thread). For him, all good memories are completely intact. He can't seem to "get" that I can't even look at family photos w/o losing it.

For me, It overshadows all the wonderful things he did. In my FB post for our 20th anniversary (that I'm certain his AP saw - which I find so completely humiliating) I wrote the following:

There are no perfect people or perfect relationships, but 20 years ago, I got to marry [WH], the perfect husband for me. Thank you for appreciating (or putting up with) my own version of crazy, for being a great father, mentor, cheerleader, and all round good human being. You're the helium to my balloon and I love you more than ever

Now, just seeing this makes me want to throw up.

Why? If I felt this way the day before dday, why does the A basically wipe out all of the good he did? Our marriage was not perfect (no M is), but he was a good husband in many ways.

I know it hurts him when I say that his A overshadows EVERYTHING, and that the price was too high; but it is 100% how I feel... I was never given the CHOICE to accept his gifts as a husband at the cost of the trauma and pain I now experience. And I deserved to have been able to make that choice more than a decade ago). If I knew then what I know now I would have made very different choices in my life (that may - or may not - have included attempts to reconcile)... I sure has heck would not have taken a job that requires me to work out of town.

Does his inability to see that from my perspective, his being a liar and cheater that deceived me for YEARS (or the entire M) casts the darkest of shadows over all that was good in him or in our M just another indicator of how far away from remorse he really is? Good grief... as I write this my gut just flipped..... Am I misunderstanding this, or is his being hurt about / always telling me he disagrees on this point Exhibit A in "what is NOT empathy".

I feel so lost on this doggone rollercoaster from hell.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3365   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8202338

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 1:52 PM on Monday, July 9th, 2018

Does his inability to see that from my perspective, his being a liar and cheater that deceived me for YEARS (or the entire M) casts the darkest of shadows over all that was good in him or in our M just another indicator of how far away from remorse he really is?

You are going to notice that my answers may seem to reflect a changing viewpoint depending on your questions - but I will try to make clear my point.

As to the above, my answer is yes - he is far from remorse. And looking at your tag line it shows that dday for you was January 2018. My posts across this board are very clear on this subject - people do not get caught in affairs and suddenly turn on a dime... quickly becoming poster children for remorse and reconciliation (regardless of how "bad" the affair might be). It's not like your husband was carrying on this outside relationship, all the while going to counseling and reading books on how to help your trauma once he was caught. It can take a WS a very long time to "get it," especially the type of "getting it" that is required to heal a spouse from a LTA.

My guess is that he doesn't get it - yet. He probably looks at his affair like a lot of people look at affairs - it's over now so why continue to live in the past? It takes a long time and a LOT of introspection for a WS to really understand the level of pain and distrust they've brought upon their husband or wife. It is very likely that your husband will need time to recognize what his actions have done to you - an issue that raises all kinds of problems... like will you still be around for him to "get it" and does he have the capacity to do the work that is necessary? All things for you to consider.

In regard to deephurt's comments - it's a worthwhile discussion. There are very few times that I unashamedly recommend divorce - and I always do so with a bit of a heavy heart. But, if you notice, the crux of her post deals with the ability of a couple to create a new marriage. And that is true. In fact, I'd suggest that it's the ONLY way to truly reconcile a marriage tainted by infidelity.

However, and this is where I differ so strongly, it is impossible to forget who the person USED to be. It's a nice thing to say that you're going to make a "new marriage," but life isn't so cut and dry. While I might look back at my wife's affair and lament the 3 years during which she veered, I STILL HAVE THE FIRST 20 YEARS OF MARRIAGE IN WHICH SHE HADN'T. It's not like I live in a bubble and only think about now and the future. Who she was, before and during the affair, will always be a part of my head. However, it is the memories and THAT person from BEFORE the affair is who I needed to get back, new and improved of course... and, in fact, I've gained back so much more over the past 6 years.

Without that prior foundation I don't know that I could have ever known who she really was. In fact, when I read your story - how in the world do you know who your husband really is? Is he the guy pre-affair? Who knows - you've never really known him pre-affair.

Anyway, I think you see my point and I wish you well in your progress and healing... no matter what direction you take it.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8202448

steadychevy ( Member #42608) posted at 3:06 PM on Monday, July 9th, 2018

It is near to impossible to forget how a person used to be. Since hindsight has greater acuity than when living in the moment. My WW didn't just veer off course for 4 years. The hindsight now shows many things that were going on in the marriage that should have been an indication of issues and were. The propensity to commit adultery was there even if not manifested.

I agree that to R a new marriage, a new relationship needs to be established. I agree with deephurt that initially that sustained willingness is the requirement. That needs to be followed by consistent action, getting up when falling down and continuing on an upward trajectory. Actions, actions, actions speak louder than words, words, words.

The opportunity to try to R is a gift given by a traumatized person to the person that traumatized them. Even if the WS accepts the gift and does what required (and more) it could be that the betrayal was a dealbreaker and S/D follows. And that's OK if the BS needs that to heal from adultery.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4658   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8202490

Hurt1147 ( New Member #63779) posted at 11:54 PM on Monday, July 9th, 2018

Im glad I found this thread because Im in real need of help and advice.

Lifeiscrazy, uve become an inspiration because youre like a needle in a hay stack. I kept reading articles about how marriages could be better and stronger after infidelity but found very little proof they actually existed until I read your posts. Even people years into R still speak about how the pain is still there even if dull but nobody has ever seemed truly happy. So seeing your posts and some of your story (still wondering where I can find it) it lets me know its possible.


Im at a point where I cant seem to find a way to move forward. Maybe its too soon (Dday was 2 months ago) but no matter how much I try to find a way to find a solution, I feel in my heart I will never be able to forgive and live with her without resenting her. The fact that she cheated is bad enough, then I add the 3 years of deception, lies, and betrayal. Add to that the fact that I cant even believe what she says anymore because shes minimized and lied to me about certain details of the affair. Her having sex with someone else to me is one of those things u cant come back from no matter how much you love someone.

In my marriage and relationship (19 years. 11 married, 3 kids) ive often put my pride and ego aside and made things work. I felt I always moved the line just a tad to accomadate whatever issues we had and I didnt mind because in the end, it was our problems; things we had control over. With this affair, it feels like im being asked to not move the line but to remove it completely and basically have no limits to what she can do. That doesnt sit right with me. Im supposed to suffer the most trying to repair this marriage while she finally had her affair for as long as she did and she still keeps her marriage? I had unconditional love for her but everyone has their limits.

She has done plenty right since the affair was discovered. Full transparency, passwords, cut all ties to AP, access to all her social media, have her icloud pw so she cant download any apps,put a tracker on her phone (her idea), I can check her phone when I want, etc but it all feels too little too late.

I feel like its easy for her to let go of the affair and AP because she already enjoyed both for 3 years. Of course shes okay with parting ways now.

She says the meetings with AP were sporadic, used protection (except for oral which infuriates me), had no emotions, just sex

. While I want to believe her I just cant. She initially said there was no PA, then confessed a week later it was. She said the affair was only 1.5 years, I discovered it was 3 years when I requested old phone bills from our old cell phone carrier. She said they had only met 5 times, then that changed to 7 to 8 to 9 and now to 10. She says she “doesnt remember” how many times but no more than 10. Each time she swore she was telling the truth only for me to find out it wasnt.

She has been honest about a lot of other things (some painful truths that if shes lying, she unnecessarily did it cuz they hurt) and I can tell when shes genuine and when shes holding back for the most part but I dont trust her.

She had said she wants to be with me and only me but when someone has cheated on u, those words mean almost nothing. If you really loved someone, at some point that love will make u react. She also says she had plans to stop the affair which I think is BS.

My faith in God has kept me going. I havent made any decisions due to advice from everyone to take my time and not go off emotion. My anger and pain simply wont allow me to move forward in anyway and im so crushed. Like im destroyed. Everything I loved and wanted in life was taken away from me and to think ive been living a lie for 3 years.

I would want nothing more than my marriage, wife and kids back but not like this. Not after what she did. Shes trying to change but I fear it will not be enough. Im hoping time and God change my heart but right now, Im scared my marriage may not be salvagable.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[This message edited by Hurt1147 at 6:01 PM, July 9th (Monday)]

posts: 11   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018
id 8202830

gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 2:36 AM on Tuesday, July 10th, 2018

Hurt 1147.

At 6 months out, not sure I have any advice other than to say I understand your pain, I agree with the advice to hold off on big decisions, and to try and make sure you take care of you.

This is the worlds worst club ever, but I find much comfort on SI.

Godspeed to us all

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3365   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8202904

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 3:41 AM on Tuesday, July 10th, 2018

Hurt - I wanted you to know that you've been heard. I don't have the time to reply right now but will do so tomorrow.

Hang in there, buddy.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8202934

LifeisCrazy ( Member #38287) posted at 1:19 PM on Tuesday, July 10th, 2018

Deleted - double post.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 9:27 AM, July 10th (Tuesday)]

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

posts: 689   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2013
id 8203072
Topic is Sleeping.
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