SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

HP, I do agree to an extent with some of the other posters, but I am in no way, shape, or form going to beat you up the way some of these posters have. Some of these posters are more civil to the waywards that come on here, but because you had a RA, civility goes out the window. Yes, you need to be honest with your fiancée and yes, you do not need to get married now. I get why you did what you did. I don't condone, but I do understand it.

Some of these posters are more civil to the waywards that come on here

In general, the waywards that come into the General forum are remorseful WS's. The newbie WS that stumbles into the General forum oftentimes are hit by very harsh 2 x 4's. We aren't allowed (as BS's) to give 2 x4's to WS in the Wayward forum.

hurtpenguin is an unremorseful WS/MH. He asked for 2 x 4's. I feel most posts on this thread have been quite restrained.

If one of your kids bites the other, do you allow/encourage the injured kid to bite his sibling? If one of your kids gets hurt playing with a friend, does he get to hurt his friend? Or do you try to teach your kids to forgive others and treat people the way they would want to be treated? Does what you did go along with what you teach your kids?

Has your affair changed anything for the better? Are you happier, proud of yourself, ready for your friends and family to know what you've done? Have you thought about your AP possibly getting pregnant by you? If you get married without telling your fiancée about your A and she later finds out, your entire marriage will be called into question, whether you're the perfect husband or not, because it will be built on a lie. Tell your fiancée about your A. If you're not remorseful, tell her that. If you don't think it was wrong, say so. You both need to know the sort of person you're marrying. And you both need to decide if you want to go through with the wedding as planned.

I understand the pain of betrayal. From someone that has been married 16 years, please do not get M with lies outstanding. It is setting yourself up for failure. Lies destroy a M. IMO the only way to move forward would be to deal with everything prior to M. Otherwise, you will just be carrying this baggage into it.

I also want to just say, please stop messing with a woman who has kids. You are a vehicle to hurt them. That may be harsh but I doubt that is your intention. You are already cheating on their mom. This will most likely not end well if you go further. My kids have definitely been hurting while their mother is hurting t as hard as I am trying to prevent that. So, this struck a cord with me.

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 7:42 PM, September 15th (Friday)]

Side note

Some of these posters are more civil to the waywards that come on here, but because you had a RA, civility goes out the window

One of the reasons this is the best site to deal with infidelity is that most WS hold each other accountable for their behavior, fog, denial or not. When a new WS posts in general, it gets moved to WW. A WS can post without a stop sign for BS feedback as well.

They hear the truth.

In this instance, there is no remorse, no concern for the AP etc.

This has nothing to do with it being an RA or NOT. Because an affair is an affair, no matter how you may justify to yourself. If you are going to call an RA fine, then forgive your WS because before they got in touch with their issues, it was an RA for them - for neglect, for issues in the marriage, etc. They were simply getting "revenge" on you which is what accepting a RA is basically.

Please note that this topic is now in the Wayward Forum. Please post respectfully.

hurtpenguin, I'm sure by now you're no longer even reading this thread, but I'm going to post this, anyway.

I welcome responses from all, 2x4s or whatever...I can take it

I don't believe that. I don't think you can 'take it.' But here it goes...

You're self-destructing and you're bringing everyone around you down with you... just as your WF did.

You've betrayed yourself, you know that, don't you? You've betrayed truth, justice and the American way, brother... in a blaze of flaming self-delusion while on a profoundly misguided quest for justice.

Had you opted to remain here, and listened to the members who were trying to help, you could have avoided most, if not all, of this. But you couldn't 'take it' then, either.

There is no justice when it comes to infidelity. That's because there is no justification for infidelity. Do you understand that correlation?

A 'revenge' affair is not revenge; it's just an affair.

Revenge isn't about justice; it's about you making yourself feel better. I'd imagine by now you're not feeling much better about what you have done. At least, I certainly hope that's the case, because otherwise... well, that's just sociopathic.

You've consciously sought out, deceived, and used a (presumably) innocent woman who has no idea that she's been the victim of your 'revenge' scheme. You believe she's becoming fond of you? What do you think she's going to say (not to mention feel) when she learns the truth? Will you be able to 'take it' then? Are you even going to tell her? Or are you too afraid to 'take it?'

What did you expect from us, the members of SI, when you came here and 'bravely' wrote what you did in your original post? Sympathy? Empathy? Guidance? Compassion?

You asked for advice and a few have given it. So here's my advice. Get your shit together. Own what you have done. Tell your WF--who is now also, through absolutely no fault of her own, a BF--what you have done and 'why' you did it. Tell this other woman the truth and end all contact with her. Get into IC (find a better one) and dig deep, brother. If, that is, you can 'take it.'

You're falling apart and if you haven't hit rock bottom yet, you soon will. Is that the sort of husband and father you want to be? Is this what being a man is to you?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 4:51 AM, September 16th (Saturday)]

I usually stay off the revenge affair threads because they make my head explode but what the heck, here I am.

I hate the topic so much because it is so polarizing and I can't understand why. I mean, I get it emotionally, what goes around comes around and they had it coming and all that. But logically, I just don't understand. Either we are responsible for our own decisions or we aren't. Either the actions of others justify the bad decisions we make or they don't. Either we are in control of the decisions we make or someone else is. What I hear a lot of is, She made me do it! If she hadn't xyz, I never would have made the choices I made! I would expect this argument from my children but not from grown adults.

And you can't have it both ways!!! This is what drives me crazy about these posts. Nearly every WS who comes here, myself included, comes with justifications. And maybe they were legitimate complaints. But I read time and time again that the WS is 100% responsible for their affair and nothing the BS did or didn't do contributed to that decision. Okay, we're in agreement with that statement? But somehow, when talking about revenge affairs that all goes out the window. All logic disappears and emotional thinking takes over.

You can't have it both ways. Either your WS can blame their affair on you or they can't. If they can, if their affair is YOUR fault, if YOU made them do it by the things you did or did not do in your relationship, then by all means, have a revenge affair. Blame your partner and live the rest of your relationship in an eternal game of tit for tat.

If you are NOT responsible for the WS's affair, if nothing you did lead them to that decision regardless of what your relationship was like, then you can not then blame your partner for your choice to have a revenge affair. Yes, I understand how that emotionally doesn't seem fair, I do. But logic tells me it's the truth.

So original poster, great, you cheated, congrats. You continue to cheat. Wow, you're a stand up guy. You're going to marry this woman who you're lying to and clearly have major resentment for, man that sounds awesome! And even better, you don't even feel bad about it, how fortunate for You!

Grow up. You were betrayed and destroyed. Find a healthy way to heal from that. Get into counseling. I feel sad for you because if you go through with this marriage, you will both likely be miserable and we only have one life to live. And something I've learned is life is a whole lot better when you aren't doing things you have to lie about or wouldn't want your family and friends to know about. You are not being a good person right now. YOU. Not your fiance, you. You are making that choice and it reflects on no one but yourself. You are a cheater. There is no caveat. You are a cheater period. Tell your fiance or/and break up with her. But stop rationalizing your behavior.

As everyone else has told you tell both of them. As someone who is the wayward and was cheated on by the betrayed tell her before you do it maliciously. He told me when he was in rage mode to hurt me. He didn't sleep with the girl but he kissed her and was coupley with this girl the first time they met. He took her to a bar with all of his guy friends before they left to Vegas for a bachelor party. A bar that him and I went to.i dropped him off that night at the bar. He took another girl to the gym something we used to do together. It's not as bad as actually having sex with someone else nowhere near as bad as What I did. Not at all. But it still hurts. But I'm glad he told me. The hard part about this is that I blame myself entirely. Yes I am remorseful and was at the time it happened but it didn't stop. He did the same as you he told me he was going to get me back. I knew he was talking to others but felt I had no place asking him to stop. I did but what did I have to back that up? I had no grounds. Tell both of them before they find out. Because one way or another the ugly truth comes out and at least you told her and didn't tell her to really hurt her. Be honest. She'll still love you but she's going to be very hurt. End things with this other woman if you want to be with your fiance if you're not sure then postpone the wedding and be honest. But seriously postpone the wedding. Doesn't matter the circumstance don't so this to yourself or her. It's understandable to not feel bad for it now. But when you tell your fiance and you see the crushed look on her face and realize that you caused the person you love the same pain they gave you that hurts you do much you'll feel bad. You may even still justify your actions but it's going to hurt you too. And maybe then you'll find out how she feels and now shell know first hand how you feel. Was it worth it? Is it worth it?

I am someone who ( like Randy ) believes actions should have consequences

I also believe this. So what are the consequences for your actions? You can't have an RA and then keep it to yourself- that takes the R right out of it.

It doesn't matter what kind of person the OW is- you used her. Being on a swipe app doesn't mean you want to be the kind of person who helps people cheat on their partners. Don't try to shrug that piece of the puzzle off.

Be honest with your fiance if you want to have any hope of having a healthy relationship to raise your kids.

Randy...

To answer your question about why everyone is so upset about his infidelity...

For me, it is because even without a universal concept of infidelity, this is about an individual code of standards and conduct. For me, I'm not going to break my vows - disrespect MYSELF - even though my H did. My standards, my values, my opinion.

If you feel otherwise, I may not agree, but it is certainly your right to choose for yourself. As it is mine.

I don't think it is something we will all agree on.....ever.

I remember when my wife and I were married, we both had to be there. I could not go to church and get married without her, and she could not go by herself and get married to me without me being there. It takes two people to be married. I feel it only takes one to destroy the marriage. It only takes one to destroy the trust, to eliminate the innocence, to throw the specialness away, to cause doubt, yeah it only takes one to make the other feel hopeless, lost, like a zero, empty, broken, inferior, unattractive, and the list goes on and on. One spouse can end the marriage, and in many peoples eyes infidelity ends it. Everything I have read says that the marriage is over, and you have to rebuild a new one, and you can have a better one than the original one. That statement says the first marriages is killed, it is dead, it is over, and you have to build a new one. Sometime between the first marriage being killed, and the new one getting built, it sounds like to me you're not really married. I know you have paperwork, you still have a marriage license, but are you really married? Your spouse threw your marriage out the window and you along with it. If you are still married in your eyes it is because of you not your wayward spouse.

Life is short, we only have a one time, one-way ticket. Your spouse did what they wanted to do with their life, with no regard to you. If there is something you want, or need to do, go for it! You were held back before, you were married, you honored your vows. Your spouse incinerated your vows for you. You are free, it you want to be.

If you go into a restaurant this afternoon and order a big meal, and you wait a really long time, your meal is never brought to you, but they bring you the bill at the end. Are you going to pay for it, you did order it, you did agree to pay for it, but it was never brought to you, you did not eat.

With children there is unconditional love, if they wreck your car you still love them. If your child does something really mean to you, you have love for them anyway. Spouses have conditional love, we love them, we honor them, we cherish them, if the conditions are right. When your wife brings some big stud into your bed, for many that throws a kink in the conditions. I know it does for me. I agreed to in sickness and in health, I didn't agree to side dicks, and I never expected her to agree to me having side pussy either. I didn't go there even in my mind. The fence is not down, it is gone. You do whatever the hell you want to do, do it for you, make yourself happy if at all possible. Your spouse did!

[This message edited by Jimmy1962 at 8:37 AM, September 19th (Tuesday)]

SMS FTW!!

Spouses have conditional love, we love them, we honor them, we cherish them, if the conditions are right

That is how wayward excuse their A's....the conditions weren't right, whatever the fuck that is in their minds AT THAT MOMENT. You can read them on other threads...everything from "I didn't think you loved me anymore (but didn't talk about it) to "You didn't have dinner ready when I walked in the door." I call BULLSHIT. WS's are just feeding their brokenness without regard for the spouse.

I vowed before GOD to love, honor, and be faithful to my H. He broke HIS vows and I took off the ring for a very long time, until basically we remarried in a private moment in our bedroom and he put it back on. But NOTHING he did excused my breaking MY vows. I would be under the same rules...D and then date. Not the other way around.

Not to mention the OP is pretending he is in R when he isn't....isn't telling the truth to either woman....

This may be the sorriest story I have ever read on here.

[This message edited by latebloomer45 at 9:35 AM, September 19th (Tuesday)]

Jimmy, you described how it felt to me. My marriage died on DDay. It's like the whole thing went gray in my head. I understand people saying that they kept their vows for themselves. I get that point of view. For me, the vows I made were rendered meaningless. Kind of like when I get fired from a job, I no longer feel responsible for going in and working there.

I don't feel like it's WS reasoning that I felt that way, but anyone is welcome to try and convince me otherwise. If I'm wrong, I want to know it.

DD, I am not saying the impulse isn't there. I sure had it. For a few moments. You had your RA THE SAME DAY. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was insane for a while. I do think that's a different thing than what OP is doing.

And there's a reason why the Bible gives adultery as a reason you can D...it does destroy the covenant. (Which is why my H renewed his vows to me. I did NOT renew mine to him...no need. He just repeated his vows and put the ring back on my finger.) I was just taking umbrage at the "conditional love" comment Jimmy made. If you've been married more than an hour you KNOW your spouse isn't going to be perfect. This idea that you can do what you want as a result really annoys me.

I'm bowing out...I'm not helping anyone and I'm just getting my blood pressure up. Peace.

But I read time and time again that the WS is 100% responsible for their affair and nothing the BS did or didn't do contributed to that decision. Okay, we're in agreement with that statement? But somehow, when talking about revenge affairs that all goes out the window. All logic disappears and emotional thinking takes over.

I think the difference is most marriage crap that people deal with is rather unimportant. You have an argument about some relatively silly shit, you make up and go on. Sometimes it goes untalked about, like a spouse feeling ignored, spouse works long hours or you fall into the kids/marriage routine and you simply aren't fully in tune to the marriage and intimacy that goes along with it any more. I think everyone that has been married and have kids can kind of understand how that goes. Maybe you could have managed it better, but nobody is meaning to hurt the other, its just life taking over.

Betrayal is something very different. You can't just say sorry and work harder to fix it. Nothing really fixes it, the previous marriage is very much over, whether R or D. The sacredness of the marriage has been soiled and the person you trusted with your life, now is a criminal in your mind.

Having to work long hours, forgetting about something or some date, paying more attention to your kids rather than your spouse don't really equate to fucking another person. But when your spouse fucks another person, it starts to equate a whole lot. Wrong or right, eye for an eye is a strongly held concept in society.

Forgive me if logic is thrown out the window.

For me, the vows I made were rendered meaningless. Kind of like when I get fired from a job, I no longer feel responsible for going in and working there. DevastatedDee

Makes sense to me!

At the end of the day it's justification for wrong actions. The same thinking applies to WS thinking pre-affair. They take all the wrongs they've been dealt and chose to do something that is wrong. And honestly, most marriages here are very run of the mill wrongs. There are people who are being actively abused by drug and sex addicts etc. Things that would be wrong if a stranger did them (stealing, gas lighting etc.)

There are few things in life that are black and white. The wrongness of this thinking is one of them, in my opinion. But I hold myself to a high standard, maybe others vary. To me, wrong is wrong is wrong or it isn't. If it's not okay for a WS to say well you ignored me, I had unmet needs, then it isn't okay for the BS well you wronged me so I'm going to f*** someone else. Fair is fair.

I have found anytime you even slightly need to justify something, chances are good you shouldn't be doing what you plan to do.