SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again KingRat, I understand your school of thought, and you may well be right. And I appreciate your and mighost's tech info on the app. Apparently his wife is pretty tech savvy, which makes this stuff even more difficult to discover ( if it's there) when/if she is covering her trail.

On the LDT, the way I read it, SHE arranged and selected the guy to take her own polygraph? Is that not a red flag?

Richard, on that matter, were you present? Did you see the result and were the explained to you? Do you have the name of this guy and documentation still?

KR may be right, but having been where Richard is once, I'm for letting the detective work continue a bit longer.

I'm for letting the detective work continue but for the inquisition to stop. Because relationships are based on love, trust, and respect. Unless his wife has given him a reason to not trust her, at this point, he has no evidence to support general mistrust.

I'm for what Bigger suggested, gather some real evidence.

If she is so tech savvy, why is she not using other apps or media to further the alleged EA? That's what I am not understanding. Why is there such a focus on these timestamps that do not prove anything. It does not prove an affair, and by the same token, it doesn't offer credible evidence to the contrary. It's just something that is letting Richard's imagination run wild and causing him great stress.

Something to add: Although there is a way to prove infidelity, short of following her around 24/7 there is no way to 100% disprove she is cheating. You can always twist credible evidence, such a LDT, and say well it was rigged.

That is the basis of all conspiracy theories and why they are attractive to some folks. That is what motivated skepticism is. So it does not become about facts but about faith. And since Richard is already convinced she is cheating, like Bigger said, it is no-win situation.

On the LDT, the way I read it, SHE arranged and selected the guy to take her own polygraph? Is that not a red flag?

No I do not. Someone before mentioned Occam's razor, which is the likely answer is the one that is reached with the fewest assumptions. If we apply his logic, it is not a red flag at all.

She passed a LDT because she is not lying. This requires no assumptions.

She passed because she conspired with someone in the office to fix the results. In this scenario, we must assume she actually knows someone in that office. She had reason to believe this person would accept a bride. The person would, in fact, accept the bride. It was a sum of money small enough to go unnoticed by Richard. The guy apparently would risk his job for such a small sum of money. And they both pulled this off without a hitch or paper trail.

Compare those two paragraphs, which one honestly seems most likely?

I mean if she has such a rapport with the guy in the office, why is it not likely she is having an affair with him?

[This message edited by KingRat at 2:54 PM, September 22nd (Friday)]

Twisted, in your case, if you care to share, what were the things that were off in your situation? How did you catch them?

I think this is relevant to Richard's thread because it may give him some context and help him to know what to look for.

There was a post by someone earlier in this thread that gave a very comprehensive, but not exhaustive, list of the most common red flags. And honestly, in reading many stories about uncovering affairs, I have never come across a situation where there was not atleast one of those red flags present.

short of following her around 24/7 there is no way to 100% disprove she is cheating.

Point taken.

To avoid t/j completely, I make this brief, and mind you it was 13 or 14 yrs ago

My suspicions were base on things that weren't necessarily red flags at the time:

a lot of time on the computer late at night.

having me build a little screen to separate the computer desk from the dining area ( yes, you're welcome dear )

The big one-Computer screen being switched as I approached, (this was really before smart phones)

A general disinterest in sex, more than usual

Mostly it was hard to describe other than a sense of she was hiding something. Mind you at this point she had already cheated with about 6 men, (one time quickies in the parking lot after company bowling night or happy hour deals that I was oblivious to at all)

The 7 yr LTA guy had sent an inappropriate email I saw, a generic internet pic of a naked couple, with a caption "This could be us" or something to that effect. He got an ugly phone call from me the next morning, told him if I saw anything from him again, I would be coming to see him in person. It was about 2 yrs after that, the feelings, and it was mostly just weird vibes, maybe a bunch of unspecific actions that just subconsciously didn't add up is when I put a keylogger on her computer. They were having daily conversations ( even though they worked together) and it was evident is was an affair, but to what extent and for long was unknown.

He had lent her a cell phone and made an excuse that hers died, and admitted it from the guy she knew I had an issue with. Turns out the excuse was legitimate, but my concern over it led to the discover of a CD with all the evidence of everything, typed by her on a little spreadsheet, names, dates, how many times, etc. It was password protected, but I had collected virtually all of her passwords from the keylogger the weeks before.

The point is that I would have never been able to get the hard evidence if I hadn't been patient and snooped enough to get the passwords. She knew at the end I was getting close, but I found what I needed before she had a chance to get rid of it.

I had the same feelings that Richard is having. I was thinking I must be paranoid, my wife would never do this to me. Truly, I always thought man, twisted, you've done a few stupid things in your life, but at least you picked a good wife. Not so much.

My wife is intelligent and organized, and was very careful not to get caught, and she had got away with it for most of 24 yr marriage, and during a LTA for the 7 yrs.

I consider myself well above average in intelligence and much more observant that most and I never saw it coming till the last few weeks.

End t/j

I feel for Richard, because that was back in the day of home computers, and with cell phones and the new apps, it's much more difficult to catch someone if they wish to remain hidden.

And for the record, I hope Richard is just paranoid over nuthin'.

[This message edited by twisted at 4:31 PM, September 22nd (Friday)]

Thank you twisted, I appreciate you sharing your story. I think this will def help Richard.

Just to go over the common signs

Signs Your Spouse is Having an Emotional Affair

Here are some warning signs that your spouse be having an emotional affair:

1. Your spouse starts withdrawing from you or criticizing you.

2. Your spouse acts secretive or hides their phone, shuts down the computer screen suddenly when you are around.

3. Your spouse seems interested in certain technology or hobbies seemingly out of the blue.

4. Your spouse seems to always work extra hours on a "project" with this friend.

5. This friend of your spouse gets mentioned a lot. You seem to hear much about this persons opinions (and yours seems to count less and less).

6. Your gut tells you something is going on. You are normally trusting and do not get jealous easily, but this definitely feels "off" to you.

7. When you try to discuss any of these things with your partner, it is met with defensiveness or you are made to feel crazy.

Now, Twisted, if you were posting your story instead of Richard, I would be telling you that you are on to something. You reported at least two of the most common signs of an EA/PA. I think that your stories are clearly distinguishable.

The major difference is the lack of change in his relationship and/or his wife's actions. He reported no changes in their relationship or physical intimacy. The amount of time spent on her phone has not increased. And most importantly, he has hard evidence to the contrary (LDT) where you only had more suspicious activity.

I'm not even suggesting he stop checking, I think at this point she has earned the right to not be accused of having an EA. He still has the right to tell her to quit contacting the neighbor. But when he does not want to do that, and instead focus on things that are in no way furthering his ability to prove her EA, we may be getting into paranoia.

I again thank you sharing your story. I am not saying Richard's wife is innocent because his story does not match up to yours. I think it is beneficial for him to compare the very stark differences.

KR, I agree and certainly no offense taken here, I have my doubts that this may be nothing but a husbands vivid imagination, and I'm trying real hard to agree with you, but I'm sitting here shaking my head, like man, there's just something not right here.

I don't know. We shall see!

t/j

twisted,

For me, too, little things that just didn't add up.

jduff,

Abuse as a child.

check

More male friends than female.

check

Supposed lack of passion.

check.

Richard, your gut is telling you something is up. Trust your gut.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 5:58 PM, September 22nd (Friday)]

I feel the reason there is so much different advice, or mixed messaging, is because none of us can quite put our finger on what's happening here.

The fact we only know your situation through this Thread also makes it hard for us to take the temperature of all this.

From what I've read, you don't have the obvious red flags that make it clear something is going on, and in fact in many ways your wife's behaviour is more consistent with someone who hasn't strayed.

By the same token, the WA contacts and the home visits are making you really upset, possibly even driving you to paranoia.

As I said in a previous thread, if I were you the first thing I'd do is read this whole thread from start to finish because there is some great advice from cool and experienced heads. Your free-styling has backfired and if there is not a problem then you're free-styling is going to cause one and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But what I would do is this: I would sit my W down and say that I may be going crazy but the connecting with the neighbour via SM - WA or any other channel - and the visits and general familiarity are really upsetting you and making you worry about the relationship. Tell her what it's doing to you without pointing the finger. Basically just tell her the truth!

And then tell her that because of how badly you feel, you would like her to break all SM contact with him and not have him round the house, or indeed meet in any social circumstance (other than perhaps a generic kids' birthday party but then maybe you just need to go to all of those, etc).

If you do this and she refuses, or accepts but then doesn't follow through then you have a red flag, because her need to remain connected with him will be outweighing your obvious distress.

But you do also have to accept during this period that at the moment she is innocent unless proven guilty. Hopefully they'll go effectively NC and you'll be able to gather some perspective and both of you can move on.

I feel the reason there is so much different advice, or mixed messaging, is because none of us can quite put our finger on what's happening here.

The fact we only know your situation through this Thread also makes it hard for us to take the temperature of all this.

From what I've read, you don't have the obvious red flags that make it clear something is going on, and in fact in many ways your wife's behaviour is more consistent with someone who hasn't strayed.

By the same token, the WA contacts and the home visits are making you really upset, possibly even driving you to paranoia.

As I said in a previous thread, if I were you the first thing I'd do is read this whole thread from start to finish because there is some great advice from cool and experienced heads. Your free-styling has backfired and if there is not a problem then you're free-styling is going to cause one and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But what I would do is this: I would sit my W down and say that I may be going crazy but the connecting with the neighbour via SM - WA or any other channel - and the visits and general familiarity are really upsetting you and making you worry about the relationship. Tell her what it's doing to you without pointing the finger. Basically just tell her the truth!

And then tell her that because of how badly you feel, you would like her to break all SM contact with him and not have him round the house, or indeed meet in any social circumstance (other than perhaps a generic kids' birthday party but then maybe you just need to go to all of those, etc).

If you do this and she refuses, or accepts but then doesn't follow through then you have a red flag, because her need to remain connected with him will be outweighing your obvious distress.

But you do also have to accept during this period that at the moment she is innocent unless proven guilty. Hopefully they'll go effectively NC and you'll be able to gather some perspective and both of you can move on.

How'd the weekend go, Ricky?

Twisted:

What is the advantage of Whatsapp compared to standard texting?

The advantage is the security it brings, it uses data (wifi or cellular), so unlike normal text which show up on itemised billing, WhatsApp traffic is untraceable if the user deletes content from the conversation or the conversation as a whole. Even if you wanted to be a hacker, the communication flow is encrypted, so inline or man in the middle attacks will be near impossible.

If you look at how easy WhatsApp makes it to communicate without a trace, you will understand why I feel it was made with cheaters in mind. You can selectively tick the messages in a conversation you want to delete or delete the entire conversation, the data trackers in whatsapp will adjust and show no trace of the messages.... Just a great tool if you have a need for privacy.

Richard, you have had your paws on that phone so many times already, have you downloaded the WhatsApp application on your PC and paired her phone to your WhatsApp on the PC?

The fact that she is tampering with settings and it appears turning off the default WhatsApp notifications only further suggests something to hide.

is it possible they use the whatsapp to check on the others availability and then use some other means to communicate?

Hi all.

Firstly Id like to say an absolutley heartfelt thankyou to the numerous kind and caring people who have helped an supported me through what have been the darkest days of my life.

I pass on love and happiness to each and every one of you.

Taking the time to help a faceless stranger in their hour of need is special. And I hope good Karma comes around.

Secondly sorry for my spelling. My spell check on my phone isnt working!!

So to update you all.

I have got to grips with the fact that despite many crazy coincidences this is mainly in my head and my paranoia took over my mind.

I can beleive that this didnt happen now althiugh I still get the daiky meltdown but it subsides.

I feel like i can move on. My poor wife is at the point of leaving and is getting depressed, but she is still here and has given me hooe I can win her faith in me to be the husband I shoukd be.

I have ruined alot of things for a lot of my family for which I feel dreadful.

The supposed APs sister in law told his wife and she told him. He has called my brother to say he is a little miffed but is more concerened for my wellbeing.

Despite still seeing odd things that fuel my paranoia Im grateful for the chance to rebuild.

Thank you all. You have been my strength thriugh this whole terrible affair (fitting word).

Cheers all

Richy

Praying for you, Richy.

So has this neighbor been barred from your home?

Or will they continue on as before?

If he does not stay away, you should do yourself a favor and amicably D now before she does later.

Ricky, I hope this a happy ending here, and new beginning for you. Being married is damn hard work sometimes. Find a way to get it straightened out and get back on the path to where you want to be.

Good luck, bro.

Thx bud.

Im having another turn.

I kniw its my mind but mire questions.

Then ill supress it!

Th ap called my bro yestetday saying he is a bit annoyed but is mire concerned for my wellbeing and if there is anything he can do to help he will.

What r your thoughts on this.

Im thinking its the act if a gwnuinely nice guy rather than the act of a guilty guy.

Thanks again all

R

I hope this is the truth for you...I hope you are given enough information to give you peace...

Keep your eyes open....and keep checking your gut...it never lies.

Richard, we're all hoping that this has played out in your mind, not reality.

Get yourself some help, do the right things for yourself, lean on friends and this board. These are great things to do anyway.

Keep dialogue open with your wife and be honest with her. And remain vigilant, just in case.

Your wife and the 'OM' do mostly seem to be behaving like people with nothing to hide, so hopefully this is a good news story re the possible A.

But even if you've got it all wrong, she shouldn't be having a social media relationship with him regardless - you are well within your rights to expect that to stop. And it's not as if she can't see how crazy it's made you.

Finally, keep this thread open and check in from time to time so we can make sure you are ok. There are some great advisors on this thread, listen to them and take their advice!