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DIFM I would but she'd just use something else!

Can you get her phone and change his Whatsapp contact info to yours? Not sure how this app works, but if just lists his name she wouldn't notice.

DIFM I would but she'd just use something else!

Since you skipped over my post but seemingly answered anyway with the above - then the answer is obvious...

She is choosing her contact with this guy over her marriage.

What is keeping you from looking at her straight in the eye and saying, "It's him or me?"

And, oh by the way, the WhatsApp messaging isn't just coincidence. People aren't on an app at roughly the same time, day after day, by accident. No you don't have real "proof," but guess what? This isn't a court of law. You don't have to "prove" anything. It bothers me to no end when posters imply that a BS has to chase down every lead and button down each clue. You don't need a thing more than you have because your wife is acting in a way that is shitty. Sex or no sex, affair or no affair. She's not being respectful of you and of your marriage vows and that, my friend, is all the proof you need.

I get the sinking feeling that you aren't strong enough to put your foot down and demand the respect that you deserve. I'm sorry if that is too close to home for you. However, until you create boundaries for yourself that make you feel safe in the marriage, your wife will continue to treat you in a way that is disrespectful. And you will remain in pain.

The way out is clear. I'm just not sure that you want to take it.

Thanks guys

Twisted yes but I buggered that up as my name flashed up on another thread as his name! Doh.

LIC - Thanks and agreed - see below charts.

I don't want to leave because in my heart know it can't be true. My head just won't agree.

Here's a link to the timeline of WhatsApps.

Feel like a stalker but I need to grip this.

Fri 1st Sept - Weds 6th

The first Week the AP was on holiday with his wife n kid but he can still check his phone without his wife knowing as his wife is v trusting so I was told. He got back the eve of Weds 6th Sept.

The Thurs 7th and Fri 8th I tracked a fair bit.

I think she planned to meet him on the Thursday as he was off work, and she was desperate for me not to come home from work during the day when I said I needed to sort my head out.

Then the Friday night (8th) I caught he on a stool in the wardrobe looking at presents for a party for a v long time, and again on the sunday morning. our kids were going to a party but she was lingering.

So I think on the Friday she may have got a burner phone from him, as she 'happened' to bump into him on the way back from the shops when she left me and our kids to o and get some flowers for her friend around the corner. She said - ive seen AP in the street. I hate this..i don't want you to get the wrong ide if anyone saw. I just said hello.

Then this MOnday and Tuesday she was away. Perhaps she couldn't be seen with a second phone around her parents?

As again today the coincidences have ceased.

Although he has only been online twice.

The times where there is no initial is the W followed by the "/" with the time of the AP or vice versa.

The dates for the AP are the OLNLY times I can see he has been online. I may of course have missed a few especially in the middle week.

The green highlights are the ones that aren't so suspicious or not suspicious, and the purple ones are the worrying ones.

If anyone can spot any patterns or tell me if it's coincidence (please God) that'd be great.

Here's hoping I'm just mad.

Peace and Love

Rich

[Edit: link removed]

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:09 AM, September 21st (Thursday)]

To add the times are either when they are online, or when they were last seen online.

The dates for the AP are the only time he is on.

The dates for the wife are just the ones that match up closely.

She is on between 5 to 15 times a day. Seems to have increased the past few days.

Thy make detectors to ferret out cell phones.

Additionally you can do the old paper scrap method. Methodically place paper scraps around the places and when she comes into the room find out what was disturbed

who does she say she is talking to on the whatsapp

She says to friends but threres rarely msgs so she says she just likes checking it and scrolling through. Its just what i do she says.

My advice is quite similar to what others said.

1. Stop asking your wife if she's having an A, why she did this or that, etc. Cheaters lie and are very good at it. Don't assume you will be able to detect a lie. If she's having an A, you won't get any proof from her. If she's not, you won't get any proof too.

2. Your wife asked you what she can do to prove that she's not cheating, right? As I understand, Dr. Fone can recover deleted WhatsApp messages (haven't used it myself, verify it does this before trying). Ask her for her phone for half a day. Run recovery software.

3. Place hidden camera outside your house, preferably watching entrances and surroundings. Can you see his house from your yard?

4. VARs around the house, but since you alerted that this is possibility, they might have moved meeting place to his house, etc. Camera outside might help you to determine it.

5. Why cant she go NC with the neighbor?

6. If she has burner phone and suspects that you might be recording the house, try to figure out where is would be "safe" for her to have a conversation. Car in the garage? Garage itself? Basement? Outside?

So far you are doing what is the most unproductive behavior when you don't have evidence - you are constantly confronting her without (or with very weak) evidence. In case there's no affair, you are killing your marriage.

Stop doing the same over and over again and expecting different results.

Richard,

So today she came home, sat down with me and said what do I need to do to get you to believe me.

You need to ask her to go 'no contact' with the neighbour, as others have suggested. He has no reason to keep being in your house with your wife during the day when you are not there, it is having an adverse impact on your marriage and family, your wife knows this only too well, so why is the guy still coming over? You are well within your rights to say that you don't want a particular person in your home. And if your wife really wants to do what you need, tell her this is the biggest, most major thing you need.

You are monitoring WhatsApp intensively, wondering what contact she may be having with him, but if he is physically in your house, it leaves no digital trail, and, while nothing may be happening, they have the potential to do a damn sight more than just talk. So ask her to go no contact, and tell her that the guy is not to come into your house again. That nonsense has to end, because whether or not anything is going on, his continued presence is making you uncomfortable and corroding your marriage.

DarkHoleHeart said:

3. Place hidden camera outside your house, preferably watching entrances and surroundings. Can you see his house from your yard?

Secret cameras, if you can hide them, are certainly a good idea, on the back and front door of your home. However, why can't you go one better than this, and get security cameras fitted, which monitor the doors? Why hide them? Loads of people have them these days, for home security, and they will show who is coming and going. What can your wife say about you wanting to make the home more secure? There is no reasonable argument she can make for not fitting them. That will give you hard evidence of in and out traffic, plus a record of the times. That will help you to monitor whether or not NC is being maintained, because your neighbour won't be able to sneak in any more.

I think she planned to meet him on the Thursday as he was off work, and she was desperate for me not to come home from work during the day when I said I needed to sort my head out.

How did you know he was off work on the Thursday? How did your wife show her desperation for you not to come home? That seems like odd behaviour by her, particularly when she is under suspicion. However, if you have a way to know when he is going to be off work, those are clearly days when you need to be coming home unexpectedly. And, obviously, any other times when your wife makes it clear she doesn't want you around.

Have you told the neighbour that you do not want him coming into your home? You have every right to do that, and you can tell him that his relationship with your wife is putting a strain on the marriage, so it has to stop. He has a wife and kid(s), so he doesn't need yours as well.

Does his wife work, or is she home during the day? If she is home during the day, it cuts out the opportunity for his place to be used as a location for 'contact'. If something was going on - which as we keep saying is nowhere near having been proven - it could explain why your house has been the main base of operations. Like I say though, nothing is proven.

If you ask her to go NC, and you find she has broken it, then - without telling her - I think you should go and talk to his wife, and tell her that you are concerned about the relationship between your wife and her husband becoming inappropriate. I know that is a 'big' step, and we have to think carefully before we rock anyone's world, but even if she thinks you are crazy, she is bound to mention it to her husband, and the only conclusion they can come to is that it will be better for him to stay away from the crazy couple across the street/next door, because they are just trouble, which effectively solves your problem. However, I would save this as a 'zero option', to only do as an extreme measure if NC is broken, or the guy keeps coming to your house after you have made it clear you don't want him there.

Having said all of this, I have to repeat what so many others have said, which is that you have basically no evidence of anything going on, beyond the issue of your wife and the guy being on WhatsApp at the same time.

What is really bothering you is the uncertainty.

Richard, I'm not sure where you are (and no need to say!), but for the cost of a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros, you can get yourself a few VARs for the house and her car, plus a couple of motion-activated cameras disguised as digital clocks, and you will have much better evidence to analyse than possibly co-incidental appearances on WhatsApp, which do not tell you the content of any messaging that was done, or even if they are contacting each other, despite being online at the same time.

As DarkHoleHeart says, you can download software called Dr. Fone, which can help recover deleted texts, messages, etc, but if you do not feel technically savvy enough to do it, you can get a local computer or phone store to do it for you. Just ask around, it's a straightforward process, people are always deleting stuff they wanted to keep, and they need it recovered.

Honestly, by spending some money on a few VARs, a couple of little cameras, and either Dr Fone or getting a local business to recover deleted stuff from your wife's phone, you can end a lot of the uncertainty that is preying on your mind. I really think it would be a good investment, don't you?

DIFM I would but she'd just use something else!

I think you're missing the point. You are all about trying to find evidence of betrayal. If you tell her you are uncomfortable with her use of the app (or anything similar) and she still decides to just use a different one, you have clear and absolute proof that she is comfortable with betraying you. That is at least the beginning of real, hard, specific evidence of a willfulness to betray your needs, obviously especially if she agrees to not using. It is such a simple and uncomplicated thing to do, why not do it? That is my confusion, so simple, why not just do it as one option to get to her intentions.

OK, Richard, I just re-read your thread and a few questions.

The first poly, your wife contacted the company and made the deal with them to take her own polygraph? Do you still have that information?

The new underwear she bought 2 years ago, was it what you consider sexier than she would normally buy? and does she wear it now? Does she still have it?

You never answered why the neighbor wanted your daughter's homework when they were out of town. This sounds bizarre.

I do hope you have your cameras and VAR in place by now.

[This message edited by twisted at 1:40 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

I think you're missing the point. You are all about trying to find evidence of betrayal. If you tell her you are uncomfortable with her use of the app (or anything similar) and she still decides to just use a different one, you have clear and absolute proof that she is comfortable with betraying you. That is at least the beginning of real, hard, specific evidence of a willfulness to betray your needs, obviously especially if she agrees to not using. It is such a simple and uncomplicated thing to do, why not do it? That is my confusion, so simple, why not just do it as one option to get to her intentions.

I am starting to question if Richard honestly wants concrete proof. There is an abundance of motivated skepticism. Doing what you describe would force him to confront the possibility that his wife is not cheating on him. But if there is no conclusion, he can hold onto the idea that it is always a possibility.

This is a hallmark of paranoia. That is why paranoid individuals live in isolation. So their theories can never be debunked and ideas challenged. They thrive in ambiguity.

Richard please get some help man. You need IC.

KingRat,

I get your point, maybe he's letting suspicion runaway with him, I've known several people that are a bit bipolar that get extremely jealous if their spouse so much as speaks to a clerk at the store, and imagine all sorts stuff.

Ive also been at the stage where things weren't adding up, and my spidey senses were tingling. I knew something was going on and I couldnt figure out what. Thats when I put a keylogger on her computer and realized I was right, but what?

I had answered a question on another website and carried on an exchange with a woman about my suspicions and she insisted that I search the house, she was sure I would find something. I have no idea how she knew but she was right. A CD with all the irrefutable proof.

So I'll pass that on.

Someday you may need to draw a line in the sand and tell her to stop using these online devices that trouble you.

But you need to be ready for D, because she is not respecting you.

When are you going to move and get away from the situation?

I haven't seen this mentioned here, so, considering you are pretty much out in the open with your suspicions, why not simply get hold of her phone and pair it with your computer (WhatsApp pairing)?

Download the PC WhatsApp application, install it on your chosen computer. Then get hold of her phone (try your level best to be discrete), go into her WhatsApp, Settings -> WhatsApp Web/Desktop - Scan QR Code and scan the QR Code on your computer with her phone. Paired you will be - pairing on my phone lasts a couple days to weeks sometimes. Like one member advised, test such activities with your own phone first, learn what to expect and also ensure you are quick with the pairing. If she however goes into WhatsApp Settings Web/Desktop, she will see she is either paired or was paired. To clear this, you simply select Log out from all computers on the phones WhatsApp.

Then just sit back and watch the messages come and go. Remember, if you open a message that is unread, she will see it as read on her end. This is a 100% clone. While I feel WhatsApp is designed with cheaters in mind, this is one small win for poor unsuspecting spouses.

Another note, if there is no open conversation with him, find his number and select chat. She may have been silly enough to Archive and not delete the conversation.

I know it is difficult to act calm, I've been there and all the advice to act calm flew out the window eventually. Try however do it to give yourself a window of opportunity to gather evidence.

[This message edited by artec at 7:02 AM, September 22nd (Friday)]

artex, I was hoping someone here had a working knowledge of the Whatsapp app, because I don't.

Is it possible Richard is misreading the time stamps or something? If not, I have to agree that it's too much to be a coincidence. Can I assume that if one sends a message, ( or text, video, voice mess) that the other will get a notification immediately like a regular text?

What is the advantage of Whatsapp compared to standard texting?

Is it possible Richard is misreading the time stamps or something

It is possible he is not gathering enough information. For example, to have a somewhat accurate log, one would need to log-in about every 10 seconds throughout the entire day. These last seen timestamps give you the last time a person has logged on in relation to when checked.

For example, Person A logs in 9, 9:10, 9:30, 9:45, 9:50. Person B logs on one minute after the 9 and 9:50 log in of Person A. Person B will only be able to to determine Person A was last seen at 9 and 9:50, but will not be able to determine the other log-ins.

They very well maybe sending a couple to a half dozen messages. Those messages may be platonic. However, Richard needs to just say cut it out, affair or not. This would solve his problem of worrying like many posters have said. But he is already convinced they will use another app, so he will not do that (as we sit here scratching our heads?). Which begs the question, since he tipped his hand, why aren't they using another app now?

This goes back to my point about how he wants to analyze and hang his hat on these coincidences to no end. But discredit the LDT through a conspiracy theory and this weird sting using the BF's reactions to determine his wife's guilt. Yet when he did not get the result he wanted, he found it suspicious by reasoning I think she should have said "x". It is almost masochistic.

[This message edited by KingRat at 12:59 PM, September 22nd (Friday)]

Thanks KR

That is exactly what I need to hear.

So do you think that it coukd be coincidence? He is onky online c. 2 to 5 times a day. W c. 5 to 20 I guess.

However she said that when she was away (5 times similar last online timed between W and ap) she was just checking in case i sent her a msg.

There were v few msgs received and hardly any sent from or for anyone.

Last night i came upstairs and she hit the home button. I opened recent apps and she was on setting and had had turned on her whatsapp notifications which i had just turned off.

So she is savvy. And she obvs doesnt need to open the app to check for my messages if she gets notifications. More nonsense or could it be true?

Also i git her phone at 1.15 am last night and looked at the ap. Guess what..within moments he popped up as online. At 1.15!

For the first time in hours!!

Its bizarre.

Sir if you are an iPhone user..its hard to do this and the phone needs to be rooted.. however if you are an android user it's very simple to watch your wife's whatsapp messages real time.Here is the thing you needs to do..it's very easy..

1.Download GB whatsapp or Dual Whatsapp or Whatsapp plus apk..and install it.(It will not replace the original whatsapp,it will act as separate app..)

2.Now borrow or ask your wife's sim and put it in your android phone.

3.Do the usual verification method..Done..Now you can see the chats in real time..with lot of features like disabling blue tick,disabling last seen,disabling double tick,disabling typing status etc.

Alt Method.

1.If you have windows pc or lap..download bluestack exe file.This is an application which can run all android apps in PC.You can google about bluestack and how it works and how to install apps..(beware of viruses when installing it in pc)

2.After downloading bluestack simply ask your wife's phone and do the verification steps..then you can monitor all the messages..you can send and receive messages too..lol