SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I realize I might offend some with this topic so if I do, please just respect my differences and keep goin. I know RAs get a bad rap but I haven't experienced any negative fallout from it. The only negatives in my marriage stem from the original As, not made worse from any RAs. Seems that any RAs simply kept bad things the same or made other bad things better...so overall a small net benefit to the situation as a whole. Or am I one of the apparent few with a spouse who is more understanding and less hypocritical? He wasn't always this way, but each time he condemned me for even stating that I wanted to stray, very very soon after he would apologize and admit I was justified. Then never get mad about it again. he didn't seem happy about what I did, more somber and humble. Any similar experiences?

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 1:50 PM, November 12th (Sunday)]

I have never had an RA and I’m certainly in no position to condemn you for it, but I have to ask. Do you feel good about yourself having sunk to the level your H did by having an RA? I feel absolutely disgusting for stepping outside my marriage. I can’t even imagine doing it to even things out. While I do admit it would a bit hypocritical for your husband to complain about it, I would also add that you really have no moral ground to stand on now. I think that’s why most people don’t agree with having an RA. I get how you could think it levels the playing field but do you really think it was worth it?

Truthfully,yes. I am not morally opposed to cheating if the vows have already been broken by the other party. Just like I believe murder is wrong but I'll make an exception when it comes to executing/murdering serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer or murderous terrorists like Osama Bin Laden. Also, I have never had any qualms with casual hookups (except for a regrettable period of time when I went prude for a while because I was interested in finding a man to marry and make babies with). I realize my morals are unconventional and deviate from most.

As I said, I am in no position to condemn what you did. While it wouldn’t be my first choice, I have always said there is more than one path to healing. I had a LTA that I ended and have not confessed to. Many people hear have certainly derided me for that but that is the path I have chosen. If it has begun the healing process for you and your H, then it obviously was the best path for the two of you.

I hope your healing journey continues.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 4:10 PM, November 12th (Sunday)]

Like you, my husband kept his dalliances on the down low...except they were sporadic hookups with no emotions whatsoever, not a LTA. I was too smart for that. I caught on pretty easily but was trapped because I couldn't afford to leave (financially and many other ways) and because he was in such denial to the point that I questioned my sanity and paranoia. My experience shows that hiding stuff is definitely not the way to do it with me, especially if the partner is suspicious.

Like you, I was going to keep my sexual PA to myself. I told nobody, not even my best friend, who knew about my first PA (2nd base or so). Mostly only because he didn't give me openness or confession. And because I still wasn't even certain he'd actually done much. Once he suspected I'd gotten my own (due to my newly ambivalent, laid back nature about the whole thing), we both confessed at the same time.

My husband is not too mad. He understands why I did what I did. So no harm, no foul. He did admit that if I hadn't stepped out, he wouldn't have felt comfortable confessing to me. The guilt and fear of what I might do wouldnt have been worth it for him to confess in that case. But now that the cat's out of the bag (I already slept with someone) and I haven't done anything worse like leave with the kids, he opened up. When he did, I followed his example. I've been open but not pushing details on him unless he asks.

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 4:37 PM, November 12th (Sunday)]

So where does that leave you two? Are you both recommitted to your vows and working on healing?

I’m not being critical, I’m just curious.

Yes. But the whole 2way cheating led me to realize we're both not monogamous people and need mutually open outlets from time to time.

So you’re both content with having an open marriage?

Like you, I was going to keep my sexual PA to myself. I told nobody, not even my best friend, who knew about my first PA (2nd base or so). Mostly only because he didn't give me openness or confession. And because I still wasn't even certain he'd actually done much.

This doesn't sound at all like a revenge affair. You thought he was cheating but rather than confront or get the facts, you immediately cheated. Luckily for you I guess, he actually cheated or you might not feel so completely justified. I'm actually not sure what you're looking for. You admit to having no remorse, if that works in your marriage, then more power to you. It wouldn't work in mine. I don't see how you could build a very loving or close relationship that way.

I will say that looking back, i regret the hurt that my RAS had on her even though she hurt me first, because i don’t think seeing the woman i wanted to love suffer was pleasurable to me. I made clear what I was doing, and that it was not deliberate to punish her, but about finding joy and passion in my life to cope with her massive humiliation and betrayal of me. I was doing it to get my mojo back, prove to myself that i was lovable and attractive to other women, and maybe slightly to show her what she would be losing. However, i do not for a second regret sleeping with the OM wife. We may have used each other, but it was incredibly beneficial to my life to have this beautiful and kind woman treat me with the respect and compassion my wife had ignorantly stripped from me. It was a double bonus that it hit he OM where it hurt the most, and probably the least consequential to me. After dday I had some horribly violent fantasies about hurting the OM and making my wife watch...I’m sure I’m not alone here but it’s the truth. As much as I’d have loved to do this, it would have only ended poorly for me. Sleeping with his wife and being better to her than he ever was is how I was able to get my vengeance on him, and the spiral than ensued, her keeping him at arms length, him getting fired, etc were all gifts to me. The look on his face when his wife told him all the stuff we had done in front of me will forever be a place of comfort for me. So to answer your question, yes guilt for hurting my wife albeit not deliberately, and a resounding no for putting that loser in his place where he belonged. Although like other posters, i question your decision to cheat on him before knowing without a doubt that he cheated on you... but i cannot be one to judge on this subject.

I definitely confronted. And paid for months of couples therapy and IC too. He hid stuff from me and the therapists too. Eventually I got fed up with deceptive trickle truth limbo. The only thing I had to go by were estimations made with reasonable evidence. Similar to how the IRS will calculate tax arrears owed based on an income estimation based on evidence that they have that a cash-earning or self employed person earned a lot more than was reported. The IRS will never know for sure exactly how much was smuggled.

As it turned out, I went a full step further with my second RA than my husband had gone with his (according to HIM, who's not a reliable credible source). But by that point I kinda felt justified after all the limbo I went through with him. So yeah you are right when you say that if he hadn't cheated, I would have felt unlucky and guilty. I agree.

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 2:00 AM, November 13th (Monday)]

I think it depends on how infidelity changes you. Some say fuck it and actually switch to this side. Some just do it once to even the score. Some refuse to sink to this level. It’s a highly personal decision. I would never judge anyone for having an RA. I mean turn about is fair right?

I struggle with this. I felt awful watching the pain I caused my WH with my RA, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that had I not done it, there's no way I wouldn't have left him immediately. So I have remorse for the pain he felt but no regret? Is that even possible?

I also have no problems with casual sex when I'm single. I hate cheaters. I guess I'm a cheater, but for me when I found that he had blown the vows up, I didn't feel married anymore. I didn't feel like a cheater. I notice that with our MC and even the preacher, I was so quick to inform that I'd "returned the favor". Not because I felt guilty and wanted to confess, but because part of me wants to say "I bit him back!"

Do you think it was healthy for you to get the ego boost from another person? I am not asking about the moral or ethical part of this. Do you really feel good about yourself. Others have asked and you gloss over the question. Do you feel good about punishing your husband this way and seeking revenge all on suspicions? Was your AP single?

I'm not good with pasting quotes but I'll try my best to answer all of your questions. Thanks for the replies.

I think it depends on how infidelity changes you. Some say fuck it and actually switch to this side. Some just do it once to even the score. Some refuse to sink to this level. It’s a highly personal decision. I would never judge anyone for having an RA. I mean turn about is fair right?

Yes, turn about is fair. I agree.

I struggle with this. I felt awful watching the pain I caused my WH with my RA, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that had I not done it, there's no way I wouldn't have left him immediately. So I have remorse for the pain he felt but no regret? Is that even possible?

I also have no problems with casual sex when I'm single. I hate cheaters. I guess I'm a cheater, but for me when I found that he had blown the vows up, I didn't feel married anymore. I didn't feel like a cheater. I notice that with our MC and even the preacher, I was so quick to inform that I'd "returned the favor". Not because I felt guilty and wanted to confess, but because part of me wants to say "I bit him back!"

Devastated Dee, thank you for sharing your story. I agree and relate to the readiness to tell people "but I bit back". I'm the same way. Like you, I didn't feel married anymore after he broke vows. I still don't, only a friendly coparent/FWB. Our marriage is for appearances to family anymore. I am happy you reacted so fast and didn't hesitate. Who knows how many more flings he could have had before you finally bit back if you'd waited.

It sounds like in your case, he was genuinely hurt but also learned a harsh lesson. Analogous to harshly punishing a child. The child will become devastated but also learn to never act out that way again. I think my husband learned too but the learning would have been more effective if it'd been implemented immediately, not later. It's well known that when raising children (parenting, teaching, etc) immediate consequences are more effective. Thus, kudos to you.

I must ask though, in hindsight do you think your ONS was simply a regrettable impulse act due to being angry in the heat of the moment, or do you think it was something you felt was necessary even once you calmed down from the shock of DDay? If you could redo DDay, would you still have had the ONS? Also, do you feel 1 ONS was sufficient against his multiple hookers or do you think you'll need to do this again?

Do you think it was healthy for you to get the ego boost from another person? I am not asking about the moral or ethical part of this. Do you really feel good about yourself. Others have asked and you gloss over the question. Do you feel good about punishing your husband this way and seeking revenge all on suspicions? Was your AP single?

Yes to all of your questions.

Yes, I felt better about myself. I felt even better when I found out my suspicions had been correct, almost eerily so (friends joke that I'm psychic). I would have literally gone crazy if I'd stayed loyal just to find out years later that my suspicions had been correct. Even if my suspicions hadn't, I'd gone through such emotional turmoil and strife, that multiple different people (close friends and online strangers on sites similar to this one) advised me that my husband kinda deserved it for putting me through such trickle truth trauma. Even my husband agrees with this now in hindsight.

And as it turns out, yes I did overstep things but by that point I just wanted to go through with it (the fling) and not chicken out. He never technically had sex with anyone else but I did. At the time I didn't care. I regretted not going all the way with the first RA. Still I have no regrets. If he wants to get a freebie to sleep with someone, I'm fine with it, hey let's make it a threesome. Before he confessed his own part in all this, I considered trying to convince him to have a threesome so that I could feel he was even to me. I have no qualms with that. I might still be up for that. Yes, I'm sexually liberal. And as for the APs. They were much younger than me (still in their 20s) and presumably single, at least in terms of marriage they're single. One is a college student and CNA by day, strips at night. Not really sure though and truthfully this sounds bad but I didn't care at the time.

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 9:00 AM, November 13th (Monday)]

Here's a question for all of you like Devastated Dee, who had a RA and felt it was deserved. If you never had a RA, how do you think you and your marriage would have fared differently? How might your psychological state be different? Which is worse for a marriage, a loyal but bitter resentful miserable BS who is essentially only loyal in action and technicality, or a BS who gets even and gets closure, but remains calm and eligible for R? Which would be worse to deal with, a consistently miserable BS or a chill MH?

In my case, I probably would have gone insane literally. I had already spiraled into a deep depression that led me to flounder in my job (that job was a whole other trainwreck in and of itself though, and had been progressively getting worse and worse over a span of multiple years). The job sucked but the infidelity made it absolutely unbearable, particularly since I don't think the stress and crying I brought home each day from this job helped our marriage any. A woman I trusted from my job, who is a former nurse, actually told me twice that I have clinical depression. Suggested psych meds, not even in a snarky way, which was embarrassing to me. She didn't know what I was going through at home. But I felt insulted and slighted by this. With my mindset, R wouldn't have been a possibility in the least. Im still not totally ready for R but I'm in a much better spot psychologically, between changing jobs and standing up for my needs.

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 9:12 AM, November 13th (Monday)]

WS or OP's that are remorseful and committed back to their relationship are welcome to post and find guidance and support while repairing the damage they've caused.

This is found at the top of the guidelines page. Perhaps this is not the place for you since you have zero remorse and seem to be promoting infidlity as a normal life style choice.

I'm sure there are forums that advocate your choices etc.

The WS and Madhatters here recognize that having an affair regardless of the reasons why is not a healthy coping skill. It seems inflammatory to put something out there like this in a place where to goal is self help, improvement, etc.

I had a sorta Revenge ONS, I say sort of because its hard to have revenge when your spouse is remorseless and already checked out of the M. Reconciliation was never really an option (atleast not for my ex wife), so it really didn't change anything and there was nothing really for me to feel guilty over.

I will say this, after an affair, there is a sort of imbalance in the Marriage. This can lead to a lot of anger and bitterness. I think some people just won't be able to get over it unless they even the score. So if it comes to either evening the score or divorcing, then maybe there is something to be said for an RA, if its an otherwise good marriage or there's a lot invested that makes divorce unpleasant for both sides.

Even so, revenge is just a reaction to the person that initially steps outside the marriage. Meaning that likely the person that had an RA would have never have cheated, otherwise. The whole idea of an RA isn't about the sex so much trying to hurt someone that hurt you so bad. Many people don't even enjoy it and just end up hurting themselves worse. All the euphoria of an affair is missing. So I don't think the imbalance is ever fully made right. But it sure gives the Wayward an out.

I have zero remorse. In fact, the RA was the only way our marriage could possibly survive, because I'd otherwise NOT have been willing to even consider R.

It's obviously not for everyone.

In my case, she humiliated me over years by having multiple A's. Not sure how I'm supposed to feel bad about it.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 1:16 PM, November 13th (Monday)]

My satisfaction came from punishing the AP. I didn’t set out to hurt my wife to deliver my justice...i set it openly and fully disclosed to regain my prowess, self worth, and desirability that I felt my wife had robbed of me. Some will always argue it was unhealthy, that we are just as low as the cheating spouse,that it’s the same logic as the whole ego kibbles argument, that it’s more malicious because we set out to cause pain, that we lost the moral high ground...but truthfully that’s just a lot of holier than thou bs. As a betrayed. You have the right to live your life and get your damn self respect back. If the waywards don’t like it, it’s too bad, you reap what you sew. And if they dare make the hypocritical claim that they want you back but couldn’t live with you being with someone else then know that your lucky to be getting a way from them, because they have no idea what real personal sacrifice looks like. Had my exw spouted any of that shit off to me, i wouldn’t have even given her a chance.