SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are the one who can best assess the pros and cons. Hope whatever the outcome is you are content with it under these difficult circumstances. Consider all he aspects and advice here and else where like your mother. But the important thing is not to get mentally victimized repeatedly which affect only you. Approach this as if it is a seroius illness and take appropriate actions.

Casey

We have already pointed out the destination. The destination is a peak far away and it’s called Out of Infidelity. There are two paths going there; one called Reconciliation and another called Divorce. To get to the peak you must start walking along one or the other path.

Fortunately for you both paths run parallel for a very long time. You can quite easily move from one to the other until you reach the point where you need to decide. Granted choosing one and sticking to it is generally better. It gets you to your destination sooner. But it’s OK to switch between them if you are moving towards the destination.

It also makes sense to be aware of the path you are not using and knowing what roadblocks and hindrances are on it. Therefore, you get everything you need to know about divorce and keep that info close to heart even if you eventually take some steps on R.

What you need to know is that nothing can stop you from choosing the path of Divorce. It’s always open for you. The path of Reconciliation has a gate, and you can’t get past that gate unless it’s opened. That gate is your wife, and her commitment to reconciliation.

I am in the group that thinks marriages can survive anything.

This is not the same as marriages having to survive anything! If you want to D then go ahead. If she doesn’t open for R then carry on along D. I can certainly see your marriage reconcile, I can just as certainly see you end up happily divorced. It’s your call.

But if you have second thoughts or doubts about D… Then remember what I said: Both paths run parallel. Keep on the path of D. See the attorney. Draft an agreement. Present her with the agreement and a request that you two try to get out of this as cheaply, as fast and as simply as possible. If you want a chance of reconciliation you could say something along the lines of:

“I had envisioned a life with you, but you have chosen OM over me. I refuse to share you. I would be willing to do a lot of work to save our marriage, and think our past and our child deserves we try. BUT I REFUSE TO SHARE YOU. You are totally free to be with OM, but not as my wife. Therefore, I would appreciate if we go through with the divorce as fast as we can and as amicably as possible, because I must get out of infidelity. After divorce, I would want to be in as little contact as possible with you because this has caused me immense pain and resentment. I would prefer to remember you positively. Please read over the agreement and get back to me as soon as possible. If you agree with the content I will file and get this over with. You can be rid of me in a few days and free to be with OM, and I can be free to start my recovery”.

And then leave her with the agreement or get her to sign.

And then move on…

Either she will ask what effort you would be willing to make, or she will keep the gate closed. If she asks, then you need certain conditions met (accountable NC with OM and some more) and you two can take it from there. If she simply sobs but let’s you move on then you can be assured she will be getting her comfort from OM.

And Casey… there is no chit-chat about how you are doing in the 180… Detach friend, detach.

[This message edited by Bigger at 7:29 PM, December 6th (Wednesday)]

@Sharkman- is that to say that you support Casey moving on, continuing the NC with WW (except financial or parenting matters)? I am just wondering what you mean with this short post. Thanks

Yes - Casey is a sane, friendly, nice guy supported by a great family.

She’s a shitshow. Bad person, bad family, crazy.

Why should someone like Casey waste one more iota of life force worrying about someone like *that*.

I don’t mean to throw dirt on her. What I’m trying to say is that she ended the marriage by cheating. It’s now truly a level playing field. Why wouldn’t he just find someone better with all things being considered? There is no arguing with crazy as they say.

I have a slightly different take on this…

Casey is a normal betrayed husband that’s been hurt tremendously and whose world has been turned upside down through no fault of his own. He does a lot of logical, correct things and some non-logical stupid things. This is typical of most – if not all – BS. Fortunately, the good way outnumbers the stoopid.

Casey has a loving caring family that jumps to his defense. The family does sensible, logical stuff as well as some illogical and stoopid stuff. Fortunately, the good way outnumbers the stoopid.

WW is a normal wayward. No better or no worse. What she did and is doing is bad, but that doesn’t define her as eternally bad. Confused yes, incorrect yes, immoral now yes… But unless she’s a sociopath then totally capable of change.

Frankly – although both Casey’s family and WW family are stakeholders in the marriage – then their views or opinions are irrelevant other than to help Casey reach a decision. It’s HIS marriage. Like us then what we can all do is offer guidance and advice. All action needs to be done by Casey and WW.

Casey’s last post showed some second thoughts about D.

That’s normal. He has known this woman for a very long time and in his first post he says that until the affair it seemed like a good marriage. They have history and they have a child. It’s understandable that he has doubts.

I think our task is to keep him on track.

Casey has no obligation to wait around for a change in his WW. Nor does he have any obligation to save his marriage. R or D are BOTH good ways out of infidelity. For now, the path of R is totally blocked by the ongoing affair and WW decision to remain in infidelity. Might be blocked forever. No matter what Casey might WANT then the ONLY PATH open right now is divorce. Therefore, IMHO the best advice to Casey is to keep on treading that path, one step at a time.

If WW asks for R and is willing to do what’s required then Casey has the option of changing paths. He can keep on the D path and monitor WW changes. It won’t be a blind transition from D to R because hopefully he will have us to guide him, and hopefully a powerful mom supporting the marriage in the correct direction. But right NOW it’s like spending a lottery win before the draw. WW is still in infidelity and Caseys ONLY real option is D.

I know that when we move out of infidelity we shouldn't analyze the whys too much but Casy has only been at this a few weeks.

I'm not trying to give her a pass on anything. I just know that my wife of six months ago would never have contemplated anything like this... these conditions created the perfect storm. Does anyone think I am way off base here?

What struck me from your first post was the statement. We had a strong marriage. There wasn’t a lot of “I should have…, We could have…, If only I’d….”. I don’t believe you could have been that confident in the marriage if it had not been true. Here’s the thing I’ve noticed with SI. It’s not so much a perfect storm that makes a once loving wife cheat it’s that they (WW)are broken.

For example: The CT talking about her unhappy marriage should have bolstered your WW impression of her own marriage. A bad Astrology reading?!? Should we keep her away from fortune cookies too?

WW mother. This plays a part in her brokenness, why her Mom was annoyed by your letter and how WW might not have thought flirting, then texting, then an affair… was that big of a deal. This would worry me if you did reconcile…. But it’s not a perfect storm it’s something that was and will always be there.

WW friends, mother suicide. I don’t know, I have seen people go off the deep end when their child dies…in an attempt to feel something, or assigning blame to the spouse. This was 6 months ago, if she had convinced herself that she was so unhappy that she could relate to Friends, mothers suicide and thus needed to have an affair… There are always going to be stresses of daily life…cheating because of them shouldn’t have even entered your WW mind.

The sad truth is that this didn’t have anything to do with you. Your WW is broken she enjoyed flirting with OM and the affair was exciting. She didn’t plan on getting caught (ie: her letter to you before the trip). She was being a very selfish person.

"I need closure to understand why you did this….

I think all BS do this too. The truth is what could she say that would be reasonable and give you closure? Nothing. She did it because she wanted to and it felt good.

"Hi, hope you have a good day." And she started bawling. I hit something in her. I walked away, but she was clearly very affected.

Be aware that she is crying for herself(how am I going to handle finances, DD, change...)not because of the pain she has caused you.

So while I am reaching some understanding of how this happened, what I can't figure out is why she won't give up the A. I can only chalk it up to her stubbornness, her feelings of inferiority (that she will never be forgiven, that she will now be even more inferior, that I will always hold it over her head, and that people in our lives will always hate her for it), and her intoxication with the AP. But is that really enough to destroy everything, wreck our finances, and tear apart your family?

I think all BS think this way at some point. If she weren’t so stubborn…if I were to hint at reconcile being an option, if I hadn’t made things so difficult to come back. The truth is if your WW really wanted to come back she could do it, and she HAS to really want to come back if reconcile is going to work. Bigger gave you something that you could say to her that would end all of these doubts (stubbornness, second choice) for you.

“I had envisioned a life with you, but you have chosen OM over me. I refuse to share you. I would be willing to do a lot of work to save our marriage, and think our past and our child deserves we try. BUT I REFUSE TO SHARE YOU. You are totally free to be with OM, but not as my wife. Therefore, I would appreciate if we go through with the divorce as fast as we can and as amicably as possible, because I must get out of infidelity. After divorce, I would want to be in as little contact as possible with you because this has caused me immense pain and resentment. I would prefer to remember you positively. Please read over the agreement and get back to me as soon as possible. If you agree with the content I will file and get this over with. You can be rid of me in a few days and free to be with OM, and I can be free to start my recovery”

.

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:29 AM, December 7th (Thursday)]

The truth is what could she say that would be reasonable and give you closure? Nothing. She did it because she wanted to and it felt good.

^^^IMO, no words were ever truer.

There is never, ever any justification for an affair. Let me repeat that, ever.

I'm sure many of us BS here were in the perfect storm, we didn't cheat. If that's the case, in my personal situation I should have been the cheater as my husband was always immersed in his career, his hobby, always being the selfish ahole. He came from a very normal family with a great upbringing, while I came from a very broken family with an abusive alcoholic father. WH cheated, I didn't.

The reasons IMO don't matter. She had options, she chose to cheat. No hall pass, no excuses, she did it because she enjoyed it.

The first rule here is to get out of infidelity, which I believe you are trying to do.

Question: Has OM been deployed yet or is he still around?

Bigger,

Thanks. As I continue down these parallel paths (with only D having an open gate at the moment), if I let her know that I want R (although I think she already knows it), don't I remain the backup? Giving her permission to continue A, and letting her know that (at least for the next 6 months), I will still be here willing to give R a chance if things don't work with the AP. I feel like R would be much more feasible if she were to give up A now, showing respect for all that we had together and showing me that our marriage is worth fighting for, as compared to if she comes back in 3 months after the AP breaks it off with her. I know she is not going to give up A now--I am just thinking it out.

I guess all I can do is continue down the path of detaching, moving on, and preparing for D. Then if she ever indicates a desire for R, I will cross that bridge when it comes. By then, I may have no interest in R.

The military called today and wants me to email them all the evidence I have of the A, so I am moving forward on that front too.

Regardless of what the goal is, you file now. Your number one priority is to get out of infidelity, period.

If she is unwilling to give up her affair, you move toward ending the marriage. Nothing else happens until she does.

If you give her any inkling that you are willing to wait this out while she gives him a test-drive, you will never get back the respect that you lost.

Exactly. Part of detachment is understanding you only control yourself. She has made her choice. You literally only have one option, which is to proceed with D.

If somother variable enters the equation then handle that when the time comes. If it does

You can NOT Reconcile with a spouse that is still involved with their AP.

Until she stops the A there is no reason for you to stop the D. It takes the two of you R, but letting her continue the A for 6 months (or did I misread that) sort of shuts down any chance of R and obviously means you are plan be when plan a fails.

Like Bigger says, get out of infidelity is job 1.

If that is D, as she is still in infidelity...so be it.

Good luck to you.

You will not be able to start any form of R if your WW is still in a relationship with the AP. There is no way you will be able to compete with unicorns.

As to closure, I still believe it is over-rated. You will never get the full closure, as all you will get are lies and excuse, and maybe some blame-shifting (which will screw up your thinking).

Closure from a cheater will never be satisfying. You will always feel like there is something else missing. Accept the end of your M as it is, and don't dwell on it. This is not to say that you rug-sweep, but just accept it that the M ended with no reason that can be explained logically, and go on with your life.

Casey,

It‘s a bit like if you need to take a life-important train-trip to another city. You tell your wife you need to make that trip and ask she come along. She refuses. When you drive to the station she joins you in the car. At the station, you buy a ticket and offer to buy her one. She refuses. She follows you to the platform where once again you offer her to come along and again she refuses. You jump on board the train and once again offer her to come along. She refuses. The train pulls out of the station and you might even yell at her to jump on board. She refuses. You carry on to your destination.

She had numerous chances of joining you. All the time the destination is clear. There are several milestones where she can choose. She can tell you what she wants with words (refusing to come along) or with actions (going to the station with you) but no matter what – YOU keep the momentum.

I see no weakness in being clear on what you want. If you WANT to R then there is no weakness in letting WW know. What would be weak – or even insanity – would be to R while the WW was still seeing OM, or letting a wish for something else stop you in going for what you can do.

I can just imagine the look of confusion on her face when you tell here “Most of all I would want to reconcile” and then hand her a divorce agreement along with the words “but I refuse to share you”. I can also imagine the confusion it causes her when you are determined and at peace with your decision. No unnecessary quarrelling, no bickering. Just goal-oriented. Heck… even wish her an OM a happy life together. But let YOU get out of infidelity.

Affairs feed on drama. Refuse the drama, be realistic and keep momentum. That’s the key to killing infidelity and getting out of infidelity.

There is a quote by Epictetus (the philosopher in my tagline) that goes something like “A dog on a leash tied to a wagon heading to Athens can strain at the leash, but will still end up in Athens”

I want you to be the wagon and not the dog. You set the destination only you haven’t gotten to the fork in the road where you decide if R or D is your path. Your wife – she’s on the leash.

I must admit I am surprised the Army got back to you. I hope I was not correct in my assessment of their reactions, but it’s early days. I still insist you don’t base any chance of recovery on what the OM does or does not do.

I must admit I am surprised the Army got back to you. I hope I was not correct in my assessment of their reactions, but it’s early days. I still insist you don’t base any chance of recovery on what the OM does or does not do.

If the wife is the dog on the leash on the way to Athens then them OM is the parasite eating the supplies. The wagon will still get there either way but it’s probably easier to deal with the travel if you dispose of the parasite on the first night. Less things to worry about.

t/j

Sharkman, having gone through the trouble of googling infidelity in the military, reading several articles, forums and what nots, reading the relevant parts of the UCMJ, reading the guidance outline from the Bush administrations… I still doubt the OM will face any consequences. At most a quite word with his superior suggesting he stay clean.

That might be enough… As a cop, I might “suggest” someone toe the line. That “suggestion” might become a ticket or a visit to the local jail if the relevant person didn’t comply…

The OM… He’s not even a parasite. He is a non-entity IMHO. He won’t be on the wagon anyways when it reaches the destination.

t/j over…

Casey – like it or not then divorce is a termination of the marriage contract. If OM and your then-ex-wife become a couple then there is always the chance their relationship blossoms and there isn’t anything you can do about it. Not any more than she can interfere in your private life.

It’s unlikely – statistically relationships founded in infidelity have less than a 5% chance of lasting 12 months – but there IS that possibility. If that happens you would want him to be as positive a person in your DD life as can be. It’s to HER advantage. Doesn’t mean you must like him or watch football and share a beer with him.

Focus on getting out. If you want the option of R to possibly open then try using something along the lines I offered. If not then don’t bother. But keep a steady and determined pace out of infidelity along the path you are being offered.

I feel like R would be much more feasible if she were to give up A now, showing respect for all that we had together and showing me that our marriage is worth fighting for, as compared to if she comes back in 3 months after the AP breaks it off with her. I know she is not going to give up A now

Much more feasible now that later?

I hope at some point soon you will realize that her ending the A immediately, demonstrating remorse and begging for forgiveness; is the only scenario that is even remotely feasible for R. If you are considering R under any other circumstance, you are willingly submitting yourself as her plan B. If she has any respect left for you, that will about empty the bank.

Do yourself a favor and start the divorce process. Have her served asap and work your exit strategy. You deserve better than her.

[This message edited by badmemory at 8:51 AM, December 8th (Friday)]

It’s OK to dream, but you need to act on reality.

It’s like day-dreaming about what to do when you win the lottery, but if you don’t go to your job you won’t be able to pay bills.

MAYBE your WW will pop over just when you finish reading this begging for reconciliation. MAYBE a month from now. MAYBE that will happen in the 2nd of February 2026. Or MAYBE never. You can’t base your present on what might happen. Base it on what is happening.

If your WW comes along in xx months and asks for another chance… Well… deal with it then, but if you are constantly moving forwards then chances are YOU won’t want it.

I retired from the Army in 2013 after twenty years of service.

What will they do about the infidelity? That depends on several factors.

First, infidelity is not specifically mentioned in any of the articles of the UCMJ. What generally happens in these instances is they are found in violation of Article 134, which can really be anything that will bring discredit to the service or threatens good order and discipline. Article 134 is sort of the "everything not specifically mentioned" article, and has a ton of latitude.

Now, as to the complaint...with whom was it filed? The Inspector General's (IG) office? His company or battalion commander? The installation commander?

The next factor is his day-to-day performance. Is he squared away or a dirt bag?

For example, if the notification went to his company commander, and he is generally squared away in his job duties, he will likely get nothing more than a "talk", which will be something along the lines of "get your personal shit in order because I'm tired of receiving calls".

If he is generally a dirt bag in his day-to-day duties and the reporting went to his company commander, this may be just the ammo he/she is looking for to make an example of him.

If it went to the IG, there really is no telling either, but for other reasons. There will likely be no "talk" with this route, but a cursory look from someone at IG may result in them deciding it is not worth it. Or, it could be that they think they can pursue this to a positive conclusion.

The fact that they asked for evidence leads me to believe they are seriously exploring pursuing the matter.

Google "Army general's racy texts with subordinate's wife prompt official probe"

I point that this out, Casey, so you don't get discouraged and think nothing will ever happen by filing that complaint. They will follow up if they think it needs pursuing and so far it is on their radar enough to ask you for details. Give them what you have, then if you come across more relevant info on your journey out of infidelity then you call or email them for updates. That is all. They will be doing the footwork, not you. Your part in this is maybe 1%, but if the Army does follow through on their investigation then the impact will be huge.

Not a knock on you Bigger or a response to your point, just your lottery example reminds me of a joke where a man prayed every day to God to let him win a lottery, and every drawing that occured he doesn't win. He finally gets frustrated and curses God. God responds by speaking to him "look, I would be willing to do my part if you just meet me half way and buy that lottery ticket!"

So, to borrow from the lottery example you, Casey, filing that complaint is like you buying that one lottery ticket. Now, you just sit back and let the Army do it's part.

That took what, less than a couple of hours of your time in all of this? The rest of the effort goes to getting you and your DD out of infidelity. I have a feeling the OM has enough drama on his plate. I think your WW was the pursuer in all of this. I think the moment the investigators question him about the A he will toss your WW like a live grenade. That's my guess.

Remember, it isn't you that needs to fight for the M. It's your WW that needs to. You just need to leave the door slightly ajar for R...or not at all in this whole process. It's ok to waiver and doubt in thought, just keep your actions consistent, keep getting your ducks in a row. Your WW is either going to go "WTF am I doing!?!? Why am I throwing all this away!?!" and have the courage to try and speak to you about R or, play the victim in all this and bathe in the drama and attention.