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Reconciliation :
Failed polygraph WH saying it's wrong

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Bobbi_sue ( member #10347) posted at 6:58 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

It's about Cujo and how Cujo wants to give her WS one more chance and try it again before she thinks about D.

I don't know much about Cujo's story and hope she will share more. But a big part of my point here is that I fully support her giving him another chance before divorcing, if that is what she wants. In fact part of the reason I am posting is because it bothers me that some think she should NOT give him another chance, and they base this on the fact he failed the poly AND that he is insisting the test is wrong.

If you read through these threads, many are suggesting that she consider this the end and D him because he failed the test. And this idea by so many that the lie detector test should be given so much power is what bothers me. I do wish to support Cujo as she finds her way to survive infidelity, and others too. Part of this is I feel that the BS are doing themselves no favor to put false confidence in the idea they can "get the truth" by having their spouse go through this test.

posts: 7283   ·   registered: Apr. 9th, 2006
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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 7:14 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

many are suggesting that she consider this the end and D him because he failed the test.

Right. It sounds as if Cujo really doesn't want to divorce. I don't know her story either. But, maybe Cujo needs more time to watch actions of her WS before she is ready to make a decision.

they base this on the fact he failed the poly AND that he is insisting the test is wrong.

Based on how he is reacting, also. Unfair of people to expect others to react as you think you would react in the same situation. Have any of you been in a position of being accused of something you didn't do and there is no way to prove that you are innocent? If I was MrChurch I think I may feel angry, most likely at myself for getting myself into this mess. But, I would be angry, regardless. Also, I think I would feel I am in lose/lose situation. If he genuinely told the truth on this test, what is the point of taking another? I mean telling the truth gave a false reading so how does one feel when they have to go take a polygraph and telling the truth shows up as lying? He has absolutely nothing to gain by taking the test and nothing to gain by not taking the test.

Wishing you the best on your healing journey Cujo. Wishing you much peace and serenity.

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

posts: 15429   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2010   ·   location: The Great White North USA
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 Cujochurch (original poster new member #62265) posted at 8:40 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

First I want to say thank you to u all for offering support and words of wisdom. I have read them all. That is exactly why I started to post after just reading for awhile.

My reasons for the polygraph was to prove he was telling truth when he said I knew it all. I still feel their is something he's not telling me. At this point I don't even care what it is, I've imagined the worst already, I just want him to be honest with me so that I can move toward R. Ur right I don't want to D, but if he can't love me enough to tell truth that's where we r headed. At this point in our journey I need to feel like I'm more important then his secrets. He keeps saying he loves me and wants to R, well this is what I need for him to prove it to me. Between my feeling he is still deceiving me and his failure of test, just makes me feel he is playing me. I don't know whether he thought he could fool test or just counted on being able to convince me it was wrong, I don't know.

Today he has started with the damn TT again. He has admitted to strip club visits I was unaware of. (Which just proves his deception) How many times do you have to tell these WS that TT is a relationship killer. Just rip the band aid off for Gods sake! Also he has asked me to come with him tomorrow to his IC, where I'm assuming I will get more of a confession. Depending on how bad that is, I will decide whether I want another test to try and prove I know it all or if whatever he says is enough and I really don't want to know anything more or worse.

Me(BS)-47; Him(WH)-49
Married 25 years, together 29 years
D-day of EA Jun 2006; D-day of PA Aug 2016; D-day of 8yr OEA & multiple cyber affairs Dec 2017

posts: 25   ·   registered: Jan. 14th, 2018   ·   location: MD
id 8075812
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:00 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

I've always found it interesting that those who are against the polygraph say, basically, "If I have to rely on a machine to tell me if my spouse is being honest, I might as well get a divorce." It's interesting that THAT is considered too extreme...yet their spouse having a years long affair, or hiring hookers, and having sex multiple times with someone else is not the deal breaker. But a machine to determine the truth is just too much. And, those who say, "I wouldn't do THAT" always have the tone of judgement towards those who would.

Being angry when you're telling the truth, and your spouse doesn't believe..after the WS has lied,over and over, certainly sounds like an unremorseful WS.

And, OP, since your husband has started to TT, the day after a failed polygraph, it certainly looks like he failed the polygraph because he was,in fact, lying.

I'm so sorry.

If it were me, I'd schedule another test, with a different administrator. If he fails that as well, it would be pretty difficult for him to continue to shout his innocence.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:02 PM, January 21st (Sunday)]

But you are what you did
And I'll forget you, but I'll never forgive
The smallest man who ever lived..

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:24 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

"If I have to rely on a machine to tell me if my spouse is being honest, I might as well get a divorce."It's interesting that THAT is considered too extreme...yet their spouse having a years long affair, or hiring hookers, and having sex multiple times with someone else is not the deal breaker. But a machine to determine the truth is just too much.

And are you not judging what someone else's line in the sand is or dealbreaker is, Hellfire? Interesting indeed.

Yes, TT is a killer. But, it is good he is talking and starting to tell the truth, Cujo. My FWH continued with the TT for 8-9 months post d-day. He was a very remorseful WH, too. We hadn't found SI yet and all the great resources here. He came to realize that TT indeed was a killer and he needed to tell the truth even if it meant I would divorce him as he very much wanted to reconcile.

WS don't change over night. No one changes overnight. One can start working on changing overnight, but real change takes time and work. A polygraph isn't going to cause a WH to change. People need time to change behaviors they spent a life time doing and thinking. Only knowledge, time and working on their issues will they truly change at the core. Change takes time. Only you can decide if you are willing to give it time and if you feel your WH is remorseful and willing to do what it takes to reconcile your marriage. Reconciliation isn't a destination it is a journey. A long, hard journey in which oftentimes you move forward 2 steps and then 3 steps backward. It is a process.

MisterSister and I are successfully reconciled almost eight years post d-day now. This didn't happen over night. I came here crying and broken hearted so many times feeling as if MisterSister wasn't ever going to be able to be who I needed him to be. Again, I am not saying your WH is my FWH. You are the one who knows him and your situation best and you are the one that has to live with the choices you and MrChurch make.

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

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LongSigh ( member #61954) posted at 9:36 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

Bobbi_sue and SisterMilkshake,

For shit's sake, knock it off with the poly arguments. If you read below, you'll see her husband actually took the test while still lying. More TT in the face of a failed poly. Do you get it yet? For fuck's sake, You two have spent all this effort complaining about poly's on her threads but have offered very little support, if any.

Cujo,

Listen hon, I'm so sorry. First, because your husband failed the test, second because he's torturing you with the truth and finally because you seem to have been caught in the middle of an ideological debate right here on SI. I'm so sorry. If this had happened when I first started posting I would have signed the site off.

If you choose to go to the IC counseling session with him try to go with an open mind and set emotion aside as best as your able. Listen critically to everything that's said but keep in mind, the counselor's primary duty is to their client, your husband. The counselor is only legally allowed to share what your husband explicitly allows.

Also, someone on your other thread gave you a recommendation for a followup poly that was so smart that I'm co-opting it. This morning I scheduled our second test and asked my husband to start a detailed timeline. However, I also wonder if in your case, maybe it would be better to have him retake the same questions that he failed.

I dunno. Through time you will be led to what is best for you. You just need the same kind of support that most get on here. I'm actually kinda pissed seeing that your thread has been jacked with arguments about the veracity of the poly. I'm so sorry about that.

There's a thread in the I can Relate forum called emotionless infidelity. That's my tribe. They're supportive and gentle but will still challenge unhealthy thinking. You are more than welcome to post over there with us even if you don't yet know what kind of cheating you're looking at yet. It's a pretty active thread.

Anyways, I'm sorry this shit has invaded your life. I'm really sorry that you have to wade through the argumentive and judgmental bullshit to find the support you reached out for.

Side note** Personally I reject the notion that if you choose to reconcile you have to accept that "change takes time". Change does take time but you do not have to martyr yourself for someone else to grow up.

The psychological and emotional damage that goes with years of failed R attempts while waiting for change is incredible. If you can handle it, cool. If you can't, cool. There are many ways to tear down and rebuild a house. I'm just not a brick by brick type of woman. I'm using the polys as a way to ensure nothing is left standing. After that we have to recover by removing the rubble. Then and only then will I hope that we can rebuild a better house on a more solid foundation.

[This message edited by LongSigh at 3:57 PM, January 21st (Sunday)]

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:39 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

Ummm, okay, LongSigh. Who are you to tell us what to post, please?

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

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id 8075838
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Bobbi_sue ( member #10347) posted at 9:50 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

I've always found it interesting that those who are against the polygraph say, basically, "If I have to rely on a machine to tell me if my spouse is being honest, I might as well get a divorce." And, those who say, "I wouldn't do THAT" always have the tone of judgement towards those who would.

The reason I am against polygraph tests is because I believe they are based on pseudoscience. I know the placebo effect is real but I personally don't like the idea of pills, treatments or tests working because I "believe" they will work.

As for me it is not about whether I have to rely on a machine; I believe the machine knows nothing and I don't have any confidence in those "interpreting the results" either. That is my main reason for being "against" them.

It's interesting that THAT is considered too extreme...yet their spouse having a years long affair, or hiring hookers, and having sex multiple times with someone else is not the deal breaker. But a machine to determine the truth is just too much.

My God, my XH was a serial cheater who has beeen with more hookers than he could hope to count, and I divorced him. But I did not need a lie detector test to tell me what was extremely obvious right before my eyes. I can assure you there was A LOT more my XH did not tell me; quite frankly I don't want to know. I knew enough and yes it was a deal breaker and yes I divorced him.

I'm sorry if when I say I would not do something it seems judgmental because I don't mean it that way. I literally mean to tell my experiences, share my reasons for thinking the way I do, and tell what I would do.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 3:51 PM, January 21st (Sunday)]

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LongSigh ( member #61954) posted at 9:52 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

Ummm, okay, LongSigh. Who are you to tell us what to post, please?

Someone who actually gives a shit that she's spinning and hurting, that's who. Go back through the threads and read your comments. Its all about the poly until your last one.

I thought the point was to offer support, not to bludgeon with arguments. It's like the polygraph version of bible thumping on her threads. It's ridiculous. She obviously places value in a poly. It doesn't matter if you and the other chick don't.

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Jimmy1962 ( member #59923) posted at 9:52 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

My Grandmother used to say "you will know when you have had enough". Maybe his failing a polygraph was your "enough". If you are on the fence and do not know which way to go, maybe you should draw one last line. I am sure you have already had several lines as final lines, only to have him have crossed them. I suggest that you make one final line, a line if crossed, the marriage is over. Only when making this line, put it in writing, and make it have teeth. This last line, if he crosses it will bite him on the ass! Get him to give you a pre-nup that gives you the larger share of your assets if he whores around again. Whatever he did in the past, leave it in the past. Do not spend anymore time worrying and wondering what he did or is doing. Relax and wait and see what happens. If you suspect something later, check it out then. If he makes another "mistake" you will get paid for it!

DDay 7-20-17 Found about 10 month physical affair that my wife had back in 97 & 98
I thought that I was going to die!
Trying to reconcile.
Infidelity is to marriage as Roundup is to plants.

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Bobbi_sue ( member #10347) posted at 9:54 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

LongSigh,

For shit's sake, knock it off with the poly arguments.

Oops I posted that previous post before I read your overly polite request.

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 10:00 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

Its all about the poly until your last one.

Read the title of her topic. According to her topic title it was valid to discuss the reliability of the test.

I didn't know you cornered the market on "giving a shit" about Cujo, LongSigh. Good to know that you feel you get to judge others on the content of their post(s) and if they fit your standard of "giving a shit".

ETA: I am bowing out of this thread now, Cujochurch, but I sincerely wish you the best on your healing journey, no matter what path you decide to take. (((Cujo)))

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 3:24 PM, January 22nd (Monday)]

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

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id 8075850
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SeeksTruth ( member #51035) posted at 10:05 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

My FWH continued with the TT for 8-9 months post d-day. He was a very remorseful WH, too

Cujo, please be careful taking this part to heart. I’ve never read on SI (or anywhere else) that a WS who TT is also remorseful. Every other time we see a WS giving their BS TT, the BS is reminded their WS is still not remorseful. If your WS is TT you after failing a polygraph, he is NOT remorseful, so do not let him gaslight you. You set the boundaries for him to make you feel safe, a failed poly followed by TT should make you feel anything but safe. Stand your ground and stay strong.

Me (BW) - 34
WH - 36
D-day 2-27-15 -
D-day #2 9-24-16
“Cheating and lying aren't struggles, they're reasons to break up.”

“When your lover is a liar, you and he have a lot in common, you're both lying to you."

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Tearsoflove ( member #8271) posted at 11:05 PM on Sunday, January 21st, 2018

Cujo,

I think whether or not you choose to use a polygraph is up to you. From what I've read on polygraphs, polygraphs are more likely to get a truthful result when lying than to get a result of lying when telling the truth but I don't spend a lot of time researching polygraphs so there may be evidence to the contrary on that, too. The point is, it's your marriage and if this is what you need to feel safe in it, do what you need to do. In my opinion, your husband's willingness to take one says more than the actual results. Did he do it willingly or suggest he'd do it himself or was it with reluctance and under duress? If he wasn't chomping at the bit to do anything to prove he was being honest, that would have been your first clue that he was still lying. The response afterward is less telling than the willingness prior.

What is more important than the polygraph results and the subsequent information that he was, in fact, still lying is that you know your husband. You may think you don't know him right now but, deep down, you do.

If your spouse tells you a story that makes no sense, there is a 99% + chance he is LYING!

I don't know about 99% but this is probably the best indicator of deception or honesty that you will ever have. You know your husband. You know what makes sense based on what you know of him. You know how he behaves when he's taking responsibility for screwing up and you know how he behaves when he's still trying to cover his ass. If his behavior looks more like ass covering than taking responsibility, he's probably still trying to cover his ass.

As far as reconciliation goes, I've been here long enough to notice one pattern that is telling as far as reconciliation goes and it's with the wayward. If the wayward has a consistent pattern of taking responsibility for screw ups without blame-shifting in most areas of life: work, parenting, personal relationships, and all of this lying and blame-shifting are unusual, reconciliation is usually successful once the wayward recognizes his/her anomalous behavior and begins to behave in an honest and respectable way. But if your wayward has a history of blaming everyone else ("the boss has it in for me", "my teacher failed me", "she seduced me") when things go wrong instead of looking at his/her own contribution to the problem, this is just more of the same and the wayward is unlikely to suddenly become introspective and make real change. I'm not saying that this type of wayward can't change but a wayward who has never taken responsibility for his/her actions and has, instead, always found someone else to scapegoat has to dig very deep to figure out that this is actually a pattern that has to be changed.

So, if I were you, I'd take some time to myself and give some serious consideration to whether or not your husband has had a pattern of blame-shifting all of his life. Then consider how he has lied in the past. Is his go-to method of deflecting his lies to become indignant and defensive? If so, is his behavior after the polygraph more of the same? Do his stories line up with what you know of him as a person and how he would behave under the circumstances? Or do his stories seem illogical given what you know about him?

As long as anything doesn't make sense, you will continue to search for information that helps them make sense. You will not rest easy with a story that is illogical based on what you know of your husband. And that is whether or not he passes a polygraph. Even a passed polygraph will only help you rest easy temporarily if his stories still don't line up. So you should take some time to yourself to figure out what you want and what you need to feel safe if you reconcile with him. You will also have to come to terms with the fact that even if he has told you everything, you will never know every detail and what you do know will only ever be from his perspective which may be skewed. You will have to decide if you can move forward with what you have.

I will tell you that as long as my husband was behaving indignantly and defensively, he was still lying. It wasn't until he came completely clean that he could answer my questions calmly and with my healing in mind. As long as he was covering his ass, the conversations were heated and felt like teeth-pulling. On the day he told me everything, with his shoulders dropped in resignation, all of that stopped. And once he came clean, any new questions were answered with a resigned yes or no. He stopped fighting to protect himself and his image and started protecting me. And he understood why I needed to ask the same questions over and over. He knew that he's put so many questions in my mind that it would take a long time to feel secure that I knew everything and that he was now behaving as a husband should. And he developed boundaries with women and worked on his conflict avoidance because he recognized that his boundaries and coping skills were very poor.

So sit down and ask yourself some questions about your husband. Is blame-shifting and avoiding responsibility for wrong doing new or has he done this consistently in other areas of life? Does he have a history of poor boundaries with women and, if so, is he willing to develop better boundaries? Has he always had to have his ego boosted by flirting and attention from women or his ego less fragile and based more strongly in his abilities and temperament and less in external validation? Do his stories make sense given what you know about him as a person or do you feel that it still isn't lining up? If the stories don't make sense, what information makes better sense to you (because that is likely what actually happened) and can you live with it if he were to admit to it? Is he willing to do anything to help make you feel safe continuing the marriage? And what exactly would you need to make you feel safe continuing the marriage?

The answers you get from asking and answering those questions are your starting point for moving forward. When we are betrayed, we feel like our spouse has all the power but, in reality, you actually have a great deal of power. Whether or not you choose to give him a chance to reconcile is up to you. Whether or not he chooses to accept that chance for the gift that it is and do everything he can to earn it is up to him.

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson

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Oftencheatedon ( member #41268) posted at 1:39 AM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

Cujo - do you feel safe and secure in this relationship? No one is happy, happy all the time - but do you have more times of contentment and joy with this man than times reeling from his lies and betrayals?

You deserve a good life. You do not have to prove to anybody that you have the right to leave a man who makes you more unhappy than happy.

All too many spouses get caught up in trying to justify why they are leaving. You don't have to justify anything to anybody. He's cheated - you are free to leave. Don't let anybody guilt you into R. Just like you shouldn't let anyone bully you into leaving. Do what is best for YOU.

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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 3:01 AM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

Cujochurch

Please read and read again what Tearsoflove posted @ 5:05

She hit the bullseye - and disregard the posters who wish upon you their perspective of anything that can not be utilized in your decision process.

You have to use what you have which we on this internet site cannot know all of that which you have in your head.

I would say you should look to the future and play "what if" and play out staying and dealing what what ever develops versus not staying and dealing what something a bit more decisive although the thought is gut-retching to process. In the long term what will be the state of your happiness?

One is currently (as I see it) a crap-shoot. The other is so very painful but long term you will become a happy person.

A doff of the Fedora to Tearsoflove and LongSigh

There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery."For a person with integrity, there is no possibility of being unhappy enough in your marriage to have an affair, but not unhappy enough to ask for divorce."

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kiki1 ( member #37184) posted at 3:34 AM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

Awesome post tearsoflove.

Invaluable information for all!

Sending hugs Cujo ((()))

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id 8076013
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Jesusismyanchor ( member #58708) posted at 4:23 AM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

Great post Tears

Jeremiah 29:11- For I know the plans I have for you, plans to give you hope and a future

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cancuncrushed ( member #28156) posted at 4:57 PM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

If you are both really stuck about the poly, take it again....and again...

best 2 out of 3...same questions.

I would give anything for a poly. His actions would say it all....I would never doubt one...that's just me...I know h is lying..

They are expensive....not as expensive as D...and if you really want to save the marriage, money is not the issue..

I have always felt, if I was wrongfully accused, I would do what I could to prove it otherwise, or leave...I wouldn't hang around being nice.

a trigger yesterday

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:58 PM on Monday, January 22nd, 2018

It's interesting that THAT is considered too extreme...yet their spouse having a years long affair, or hiring hookers, and having sex multiple times with someone else is not the deal breaker. But a machine to determine the truth is just too much.

There will always be people who will argue that this boundary is essential and that one unacceptable.

We all have the right to establish our own boundaries.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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