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Don’t you think the WS has fond memories of at least the physical act (if it was good) and thinks it about it during sex with their spouse to get “turned on” but would never admit it, ever. I’m not buying the “sex wasn’t good” crap that some here get from their WS. I really think some women just want the Fifty Shades treatment and it doesn’t feel right with their spouse and some men just want cheap thrilling porno sex and their stable, loving wife just doesn’t do it for them.

When my FWW wants me to talk dirty to her I can’t help but think she is reminiscing of OM sometimes? Probably doesn’t help that she told me he screwed like a pornstar. 25 years and a great marriage later and these thoughts still creep in my mind. How screwed up is that.....

I’m not buying the “sex wasn’t good” crap that some here get from their WS.

It seems most BS's get that very same story, not just 'some.'

I ain't buying that bull-crap, either.

I for the longest time thought my STBXWW looked back with if not fond memories, at least with some kind of excitement. She very well might have for the first five years when we rugswept. I am now convinced that her memories of this are so tainted by the utter destruction that her actions caused that I can't see how she has any fond memories of it. She wrecked me, she wrecked us, and she wrecked our family. Not to mention that her life right now is a horror show.

I do think that is because of the consequences that her actions brought. I am divorcing her after 30 years of marriage. Our kids know, and though they still love her are ashamed of her actions. Most of her friends are gone. Some due to the cheating, some due to there is not place for singles in the social group, and some from stupid things she has done. Like I said, so many things wrecked for a few weeks of porn sex with a bad guy.

I am not so surest is the same with the BS who just automatically tell their WS that everything will be ok, and the consequences are not strong. Life just moves along and they can tuck these memories into a happy place in there brain.

Where we still differ is what she was feeling at the time. She claims now that the sex, even at that time was not something she enjoyed. That I call bullshit on. Revisionist history. During the time she was doing it, she must have enjoyed it. Why go back everyday, even as he ratcheted up the humiliation if you were not getting pleasure out of it.

But now, hell no. What she did set off a nuclear bomb that destroyed so many.

I’m not buying the “sex wasn’t good” crap

The WS's attempt to minimize and make the BS "feel better"

Obviously something was good about it to risk everything for it.

The worst part of all this is I know until I take my last breath on earth I will always wonder what was she was thinking back then. Was I plan B? Was it only because he moved that we ended up together.

I look at my kids and think to myself, let it go, you have had a great life and there are millions of people that have it worse than me but why can’t I have 100% happiness with the one person that means the most to me? If my wife had any idea that this still bothers me decades later she would be crushed. I keep telling myself we were young and dumb and people make mistakes but I just can’t let it go.

There have been so many times I’ve wanted to discuss it but it’s literally been over a decade since it was last brought up. Good god, if cheaters gave a thought to the hurt and long term damage their actions cause there would be a lot less cheating.

I’m not buying the “sex wasn’t good” crap that some here get from their WS.

It seems most BS's get that very same story, not just 'some.'

I ain't buying that bull-crap, either.

On what basis do you call those folks liars?

Look, I'm a BS. I've been with one woman for over 50 years, actually since before committing to each other (I was too hooked on her to go with other women). The ONLY way I would cheat is if I was promised sex so intense that it can't be described (Think Kabbalah). But that's never actually in the cards, so I stay faithful.

WSes are different. I have no idea how the sex plays in their minds except from what they tell me. Their fantasies are not mine. I don't project my fantasies on them.

I cannot use my fantasies about adulterous sex as 'evidence' that someone is lying. I just can't.

For the record, my W did not cheat for sex, but she says the sex was terrific a few times and then became a chore. And I think she said it was always better with me.

I totally agree with remembering....

In my situation, it was the boundaries.. H went too far in all areas...fantasizing....remembering...reliving....I now believe he is big on fantasy....traveling was and is especially uncomfortable...I can imagine his years of traveling alone for work...

I'm not sure he was ever present with me. I think this is a preference. his sex is very much based on fantasy....whether made up or reliving..

I now can look back and see, every pange I felt, I saw, and I thought, surely I'm wrong about this......I was right....trust your gut...everyones situation is different.... serial cheaters have much to remember.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 11:25 AM, January 27th (Saturday)]

Isn't this the root of trouble in most marriages?

Lack of communication?

You say you have a great life, and outwardly you may have but you're obviously still hurting inside even worse you're triggering when what your wife is doing is entirely normal to her and she's not even thinking about the OM.

Not apportioning blame to you, the triggers are real and continued silence means this will keep festering unresolved while you try and rug-sweep to forget and not rock the boat.

Talk to her. She may put your mind at ease but at least you'll be fighting this together.

I had great sexual trysts before I was married. My university days were wild! But during sex with my husband, I never once went back to one of those experiences. So is it that hard to believe a WS doesn't?

Regarding good sex during the affair, new sex is commonly "good" because it's unpredictable and "strange"...I think back to those afore mentioned wild days and the sex was always better in the beginning - and as time went on - the sex didn't change in its actual properties...but it stopped being as exciting...

I e also had "good" sexual experiences that later in life caused me shame to think back on...at the time no...but as I grew and matured and became fully cooked - it makes me cringe...I'd like to think a remorseful WS would cringe at recalling sex with the AP no matter how it felt at the time while they were balls deep in their wayward thinking...

[This message edited by sassylee at 11:39 AM, January 27th (Saturday)]

I'm sure some waywards do and others don't. The ones that are not remorseful are likely the ones that would but if a WS is reminiscing in their own minds or thinking about AP during sex with BS, then they aren't remorseful IMHO

Having said that, only the ws know for sure.

I have wondered the same thing though. Sometimes, during sex, I wonder if its me he sees or her. I wonder if he is envisioning her when he has his eyes closed. I have asked, he says he never thinks of her and never wants to remember anything about her.

Only he knows for sure if that is true. I used to trust that what he was telling me was the truth but all the lying sure has changed that.

I have heard it explained as food poisoning. You gave a great meal at a restaurant. Say it was an amazing filet Mignon. But there was cross contamination from something else. 24 hours later you are puking your guts out.

So at the time you loved the meal. But now when you think about it later its not so great.

WWTL makes a good point about whether there were tangible consequences or not. That would have a profound effect on this thought process. The food poisoning is the consequence. If there was not poisoning, the memory of the meal can stay positive.

Now some will say they never enjoyed the meal. I do not buy that for a minute. I never had an orgasm I did not enjoy at the time. Its nonsense.

Most WS will tell you some version of "the sex was not great" or that they "did not enjoy it". It is a way to minimize what they did and try to control the BS perception of both the action and the WS.

On what basis do you call those folks liars?

Simple. The vast majority are WS are liars. They lie to their BS during the A. They lie to the BS after the affair. They lie directly. They lie by omission. And they lie to themselves. They are masters of buying into their own reality. A reality they create and can change at any moment. Rather than own up to what they did and felt, at the time, most revise history.

If Vegas had a roulette table based on a WS telling the truth (red), putting you money on black would be the smart bet. I am not saying they never tell the truth. But the odds are always in the houses favor.

WWTL,

I think you nailed it. If there aren’t consequences why wouldn’t it be a fond memory to fall back upon. Hell if you go to Disney with your kids you can reflect back upon childhood trips, why couldn’t you think of pornstar sex that you had earlier in life.

I can see why your wife wouldn’t think fondly upon it but with mine I’ll never know. I’m not going g to pick an old scab, not worth it, I’ll just tell her I’m not into the naughty talk and leave it at that.

I'll take a chance here. From a Wayward view, I agree with Jman that WWTL offers an excellent reply.

Speaking only for myself, my A sex was very good (at the time)...as I'd bet it is with many other Waywards, though many deny this. As WWTL indicated with his WW she may well have had fond memories of her A sex until 5 years later when the real shit hit the fan (i.e. serious consequences).

For me, my marriage and world blew up on DDay with immediate, nuclear consequences so I had no time to "savor" A sex as it nearly destroyed my family.

To answer Jman's question, no fond memories for me of the physical act, quite the contrary.

My WH said that, for a while after the last D-Day, he still got turned on by memories of the affairs. Now, he says he doesn't and he feels only shame, but I have a hard time believing that. He also told me that sex with them was the best and he found them more attractive than me, but now he says he doesn't feel that way anymore. It's horrible that I have an easier time believing the bad things than the good.

I’m not going g to pick an old scab, not worth it, I’ll just tell her I’m not into the naughty talk and leave it at that.

What you call "not picking an old scab", others might call conflict avoidance. What would happen, if you said to your wife, "Can we talk? The other night in bed...the dirty talk? It sickens me to think you did this with AP. It's terrifying to think something we do during sex might revive fond memories of sex during your affair." See what she says. I'm assuming she's been remorseful since you're reconciling. Something she says might provide relief, soothe your fears and possibly bring you closer together.

I've found that concerns I've buried and not brought up for fear of causing problems, droning on again about the same stuff...well those concerns keep resurfacing until they cause me anguish. Better to discuss it now. Get out so you can excise it from your mind.

[This message edited by sassylee at 9:39 PM, January 27th (Saturday)]

The vast majority are WS are liars. They lie to their BS during the A. They lie to the BS after the affair. They lie directly. They lie by omission. And they lie to themselves. They are masters of buying into their own reality. A reality they create and can change at any moment. Rather than own up to what they did and felt, at the time, most revise history.

Exactly

I agree with WWTL. From what I’ve seen, the waywards that haven’t felt hard consequences are likely to look back at the A sex with fondness.

trying not to T/J but looking here the in the recent past, I am saddened by the number of people here back after a few years where they thought they had their marriage back on track. I can't help but think that the consequences were not enough to prevent cheating round two.

I know it is the popular opinion that the hurt theta the BS is a consequence. It is, button my opinion not enough. The WS has already proven that they are going to put their needs in front on the BS. They certainly knew in most cases that hurt would result and they did it anyway.

For 5 years my STBXWW consequence was a hurt and pissed off me. Yet she got to laugh at parties, her kids respected her (even as they respected me less as they did see that i didn't treat her the same but of course didn't know why)and our friends thought she was the greatest wife ever. Even better after the affair as I got to go to every golf outing under the sun, and basically did as I pleased. Life for her went on.

It wasn't until after when our kids found out, her friends, and I moved out that the real consequences happened. I bet that is when the last of the sex fantasies with her AP went sway. I don't know this, but it is what I believe.

Sassylee is correct. Not talking about how you feel is a recipe for disaster. I am the poster boy for that. Your feelings of resentment don't stop by not talking. They build inside you like a pressure cooker until they will one day explode.

You need to have a hard conversation.

Funny, this has been playing on my mind heavily and I'm not sure if I can handle the truth. I struggle daily with the idea the A sex was better than it is with me. I may be the minority, but I have to say that sex for me got better over the years - better than it was when we first met. Oh, the excitement, butterflies were there when we were first together but over the years, the act of lovemaking has only gotten better. Maybe because I'm more experienced and more in tune with my body. IDK. Anyway, I want to ask WH so badly the "was she better than me" question. I guess most would advise against it. I can't imagine sex being better with anyone else compared to my WH but, from what I've read on SI, I guess the A sex is better. By the way, approaching 25th anniversary. After 27 years together this really sucks, doesn't it?

Mamaceto, I think some things are best left unsaid as well.

Its strange. I went to mass today, looked at my wife the whole time, and now I just feel at ease. She has been an amazing life partner and I refuse to grow a wrench in the works when we have been blessed in almost every way....except one.

Looking forward to the Grammys, a few glasses of wine and a nice fire tonight.