SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No ringing! Sorry sounds very stressful

I have that tinnitus, and like you have noticed, stress makes it worse. But I also have high blood pressure, and I am sure there is a connection with stress between all these symptoms. When I am stressed, my BP goes up, then so does the ringing. Also sometimes my eyesight seems worse when I am really stressing, like I need better glassses.... probably my blood pressure is way high at those times.

I would urge you to measure your BP, and if you need to get it back to normal range, do not put off getting help for that.

I was ordered by my doctor to start on BP meds just after D-Day 1 and I stubbornly (and foolishly) resisted starting them for 3 months, as I was angry that his cheating was forcing me to go on meds.

But then, after a plane ride home from Puerto Rico through a severe thunderstorm over the Atlantic, the next day I had what I feared was a mini-stroke, like everything was rotating around, as if I were on a carousel! I went in the house and checked my BP, and it was 200 over 110! I could have had a stroke. I realized I had to start taking medication! (I might have already been needing medication regardless of my SAWH, but his cheating was certainly the event that pushed me into a formal diagnosis of Hypertension.)

The ringing in my ears seems to have started several years after that, but it seems connected to ongoing stress, too, I do think. Take care of yourself at this time! Take ear plugs along, they help me a lot.

I am already on high BP meds (have been for about 3-4 years); in fact I had to switch a few weeks ago, because the diuretic was causing me to lose too much potassium. The two times I've had it taken at the doctor's office in the last two weeks, it was perfect. I'm on Diavan now, 80 mg. I'm almost afraid to check my BP, though. My cuff at home is not the most reliable.

But he will not discuss it and is adamant there is no problem end of discussion. I'm more a... talk it all the way through until you've started to beat the dead horse ...kind of girl. He hasn't done IC in one a year, that troubles me. He only goes to MC when I request it, and just listens I do all the talking and he feels on trial. Mostly processing my anger at what he did.

On the flip side he has pretty much been the perfect, remorseful spouse since about a month after Day. That is in line with the "I get it now" side of things, but my gut just can't reconcile that we are in the free and clear.

Sami If you are good with this situation and your H's refusal to discuss, i.e. communicate, share his thoughts and feelings, then there is nothing wrong with that. It's all about what works for you.

But I would not think that my H's refusal to talk and communicate about what he had done, his not working his butt off in IC is anywhere near being a "perfect, remorseful spouse."

And to speak about being "free and clear" is very foreign to me. But I know that each story is different and we all come with different abilities to deal with this life trauma. Just don't think there are any dead horses to beat with talking when it comes to infidelity and especially if it's been going on a long time. Your wanting and needing to discuss it is normal and healthy.

Perhaps it is possible for the betrayer to just stop and never betray again but even if so, the damage has been great and we, as the betrayed, we who have been deceived, used, violated, can never really be the same, never be free and clear. So yes, we talk and we need partners who are showing great empathy and showing that they care for our feelings more than their own. Your H feels on trial???? Really??? And he tells you that?

What is he doing to make amends for the grievous harm he has caused? Is he wracking his brain to think how he can make amends?Is he asking himself why he shouldn't feel on trial?

Our C amazed me today. He told my H that even when I wasn't talking about what had happened, even when I didn't look upset it was still with me. He asked my H if he was aware of that and if he tuned in to ask me about it, tuned in to show his awareness of my on-going pain. I thought it a very good question. My H had to answer no. He never really thought about it unless I raised it. He never initiated discussion; never offered more than I asked about. Almost as if he weren't there. I was amazed to hear our C asking this which he'd never asked before.

It sounds as though your H never really tested for SA; that it was your thought that he was given what he was doing. But SA isn't a matter of behavior alone; it has much to do with ongoing urges and obsessions that can literally take over one's life. It has to do with underlying feelings and thoughts. There are several tests on line that are helpful in assessment but the possible SA must answer with rigorous truthfulness. ICs who are experienced working in SA advise a possible SA to attend at least 6 meetings. The diagnosis is greatly dependent on subjective feelings--not unlike some medical conditions that have to rely on completely objective indications for a "diagnosis."

But not sure the label matters. Your H seems to have a somewhat cavalier attitude to what he's done. And again, if that is ok with you then that's ok. But if it's not then you might benefit from working intensely with an IC to learn to establish boundaries that might make you feel more comfortable as well as to focus on yourself. I guess ultimately it's all a matter of what we're willing and able to put up and live with.

[This message edited by marji at 7:03 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]

smjsome1: Oh, I am VERY aware of how easy it would be for him to just get "better" at hiding all of this. I have read way too many stories of women who thought their SAWH were "cured" so I am in no way there. I am not drinking any koolaid here. He seems to think that I need hypnotism or something to get over what he did, I think that's crazy. Like I can just let this slide. But what really gets my gut is not just that he was watching porn all along, but the women in the porn were not anything that he would state he would like. They were very very trashy. He hates that. He has always insisted that I keep myself very classy. Ex: I once bought a thumb ring..he thought that was so trashy he made me get rid of it. BUT the women he ended up doing it with??They had tattoos, (he hates) nose rings (he hates) they had everything he says he hates. If that's not a sign of some sick addiction I don't know what is. Thank you for the warning but all my alarm bells are up. He knows I don't trust him and I think it's good that he doesn't have that satisfaction. From day ONE he has wanted to do a renewal of vows and I have said "no way." I maintain that today. I have no desire to hear him say words that I know now mean nothing. It will only help him and I also have no desire to do anything that will ONLY help him. There now has to be something in it for me. I've always been the giver in this relationship and but I'm much more aware of my own needs/wants these days.

As for tinnitus, I have had it since I was a small child. I always thought it was just the "sound of silence" until I learned better. It does get worse under stress or illness.

I had my meeting with my IC today. She agrees he has not done the deeper work that needs to be done. She agrees that it is a crap shoot as to whether his fear of losing me will be enough to keep him in check. She agrees I need to let him know I am still watching every move he makes, that I do not trust him. Do I love him? Honestly, I just don't know what love is anymore, at least not love between a husband and wife. Sad, isn't it?

Sami You say your IC thinks your H hasn't done the deeper work but it sounds like he's really done no work at all.

Just read your bio and can see why you think he may be an SA. But he seems lacking motivation to find out. Then you said your IC agreed that his fear of losing you may not be sufficient for "keeping him in check."

Sami, have you discussed with your IC what possible boundaries you might set that would help you to feel safer as long as you continue to live with him? Some of us required that our spouses attend a support group; some of us required that our spouses work with an addiction specialist. It's really up to you to decide what you need from him as you work to heal yourself from the trauma.

And as Lionne pointed out, you can join an SANON group whether or not your H is an SA-the group is for anyone badly effected by the sexual behavior of a significant other. A good group can be a life changer.

Finding a group is a great idea! And I am glad you are going to IC, that’s self care.

marji: I'm sorry I missed your earlier post somehow. It has prompted me to think what HAS he done. After Day he admitted to how many women he had been with and took complete responsibility. It was a bit of TT as I had to dig as to where he met these women, then found out about the money/gifts as I dug through our finances. He says it was selfish and immature and he recognizes that he has been very self absorbed our entire M. (TRUE). He has read several books on developing empathy (some via his IC and some he found on his own) and I see that he has applied them to his work and family relationships other than just me. He stopped going to IC after maybe less than ten visits as he says he gets it all now and the guy just listens to him talk now anyway. He quickly changed his phone number and placed a tracker on his phone and always checks in with me. He has completely changed how he deals with me in this relationship. He did discuss SA with his IC in the beginning and read a couple of books about it but he quickly felt that it did not apply. I am not sure why he decided that or I can't remember. It is possible that this was/is all about his extreme need for attention/fulfillment rather than true SA but even our MC stated he was acting compulsively. He does seem to need constant affirmation. He admitted he was not "thinking right," of course that terminology alone makes me nervous. He has said he would never "hurt me again" (I know that is really empty promises if someone is truly struggling with SA.) He has stated that he understands himself better now and he understands me better now. I do know now that he feels sex is very, very, important in a way that in my gut feels sort of skewed.

I think it may be about his embarrassment about all of it that he feels we should move forward and not keep discussing it. However I also know that he uses denial as a coping skill for many things and it could be that. That has come about I believe as being an adult child of an alcoholic father who tore his family apart. He knows I won't forget about it but hopes that I can forgive him...to which I said I am not a saint. I told him last MC that I have every right to ask about it and continue to be reassured about it as long as we are together. I have told him regarding which behaviors I will not tolerate, porn use, going to any girly establishments, staring at other women. I emphasized most of all any behaviors he planned to allow himself in this relationship he needed to be ready to allow me the same (that was a barometer he could understand as he has been terrified since Dday that I would MH)

He has done everything I asked and has been contrite. I guess what is missing is...is this really SA? Sometimes I try to apply it to alcoholism. Could someone become a complete and total alcoholic and risk their job, marriage, health and absolutely everything for one period of time, say a full year, and never be at risk of drinking again? I find that hard to believe. His actions escalated for at least five years that I can document, well, that's when the strip clubs started it was porn before that. Again, that's all I can document. My jury is still out and I think that if I find one more slip up on anything, that'll do it as far as I'm concerned he'll be SA and I'll require an SA IC or SA eval. if we stay together.

Thank you friends for recommending SANON I did just check that out. I think I will look into joining a group and see what I can learn.

sami, in my psychology courses, it was taught that denial is one of the most primitive defense mechanisms humans use, and if a person defaults to denial, it signals a lot of other issues. Since you mentioned your WH “uses denial as a coping skill,” I thought of that lesson, but it has been a few years since my school days, so I just did a search to make sure I recalled that correctly.

Here is the first quote on the page that came up: “Denial is the refusal to accept reality or fact, acting as if a painful event, thought or feeling did not exist. It is considered one of the most primitive of the defense mechanisms because it is characteristic of early childhood development.”

Further reading down the search results mentions the theories of early psychologists and the use of “primitive defense mechanisms” as characteristic of borderline personalities, which is considered to originate in very early toddlerhood, even in infancy. For sure, not what an adult should still be using as a regular coping skill, in other words.

Now, almost everyone copes by denial during really traumatic events, such as a death. At such times, denial is considered expected and a way to adapt to get through the trauma. But if someone is known to use denial as a regular means to deflect pain, I would think there are some deep-seated FOO issues there, SA or no.

Sami - I’m glad you looked into a group, please go and let us know how it goes.

Just FYI I have had 3 different group experiences and went to one SANON group when on vacation, we don’t have or I can’t find SANON here. Anyway, it took a while to find a group that fit - so don’t hesitate to try out a few, for me I have now found a trauma counselor led group, versus a spouse in recovery led group.

Hey all - interesting happening here, turns out my IC is his CSATs mentor. Pure coincidence. When I interviewed and decided to try her out she asked me to fill out paperwork allowing her to talk to his C, as “oh, we know each other”. He did the same on his end. It’s added a very beneficial element to our C, that I like. She met with him and told me, as per her requirement in the paperwork, and told me what they discussed that applied to me, not him, or he came up but only as applied to me.

That she thinks his constant need to “repair” me, to tell me when I say I’m in pain “I’m not doing it NOW” needs to stop. He needs to stop and let me work on my self, instead of trying to control me. The managing me pushes me deeper in when I’m the black hole.

She said she also told him that my H sleeping on the floor in front of the door when I want to sleep alone has to stop. She did say and he said, he told me he slept on the floor but not in front of the door ... she said, did he also tell you he hid her keys at night? Which he did do until my daughter found out and put a stop to. I didn't know at the time, I was very glad that was stopped!

I like we have our own IC’s but also there is a connection so some coordination.

Spelling edit, I’m sure I missed some

[This message edited by Smjsome1 at 9:42 AM, April 13th (Friday)]

He may have stopped hiding your keys, but just in case, get some secret copies made.

Tonight is the last night for wh to be sleeping out of the bedroom. I think his little feelings must be hurt. I noticed the last two times he kissed me (goodnight last night and leaving for work this morning) he didnt even bother touching me.

He works a half day tomorrow, which i am glad for even though i have to take all 6 kids to the soccer games this weekend. Date night tonight. I hope it isnt awkward but either way I am looking forward to some pizza.

I think it may be about his embarrassment about all of it that he feels we should move forward and not keep discussing it.

I doubt that too many of us want to keep discussing things that we feel embarrassed about. But what he should be understanding, realizing, acknowledging, appreciating and respecting, is that his feelings of embarrassment should not be guiding his approach to becoming better; to becoming healthy, to making amends. To gaining a better attitude toward life. His judgment is in need of repair.

So surely his embarrassment, his discomfort, shies away from discussing what he's done, who he is, what he is, and why. His bad feelings lay behind his choice to act immorally, to act in a sick and unhealthy way. So now he should be following another course of behavior.

Again, he may or not be an SA but he should still be working very hard in therapy and with a support group to change his attitude, his mindset--and his wanting, needing, asking to avoid discussion is a sign of needing to put much work into becoming a healthier person.

But again, it's really all about whether you are comfortable with his not doing the work to really change and by that I don't mean his sexual acting out. Yes, it is possible that that can stop. And yes, some people do quite alcohol and drugs and never engage again. But so what? What difference does it really make what other people do or don't?

I asked the same kind of questions--whether such and such was possible, whether others did or did not do something, could do something. But in the end, the only thing that matters is what our H's can and cannot do and, maybe more importantly, what we should or should not do to regain balance and our enjoyment in and appreciation for life.

If you are good with what your H is doing or not doing now--then that is fine. That is as it should be. But if you are not comfortable, if you are not at peace then there might be boundaries you might want to set, consequences to make clear as you do you can to care for yourself, find joy in life, find your you again.

Ridiculous how this addiction affects everything.

We had a minor fender bender today, I wrote about it in off topic.

My husband told the guy he wouldn't report it. Now regrets that due to our concern about the other driver, the guy that hit us.

But, he feels conflicted, feels like he made a promise, can't break that, doesn't want to have "lied" to the guy. I'm glad he feels that truth needs to be his life, but this is tough. If he starts to make an exception, he's on shaky ground. Ugh.

[This message edited by Lionne at 10:13 PM, April 13th (Friday)]

superesse: Yes I've had quite a few psychology courses in my day as well and I know how dangerous denial can be. When we were first married I thought he was incredibly positive. When asked how things were he always said "great" "wonderful" but I soon realized that he didn't see things as they were and could never admit things were less than great or wonderful. Not healthy.

marji: you are right. Unfortunately in this relationship it is going to be me that pushes him to find himself, his true inner self and not accept anything less. My IC just said this week that he is a "fixer" and I think that is true. He has a road map now of things he should do, and things he must not do, and that makes it all better. I even think he will follow the road map. I don't live like that. I want to know WHY we do what we do or WHY we don't do what we don't do. I want him to have reasons behind his choices, depth of understanding, because I think that is what having a moral compass is all about. I do NOT want to be his momma setting rules for him forever. But for now, I do.

He and some buddies are headed of on a trip for two weeks to the other side of the world. I want him to go, mainly because I don't want to live in fear all the time. I do not think he will act out per se. What I AM worried about is the possibility that these guys may want to go to some girly bar, or some restaurant that objectifies women...do I have to say their names?? We know them. The food is BAD for you and the almosphere is worse if you are struggling with SA. I am going to tell him FLAT OUT that isa boundary for me. I will leave him if he goes to any of those seemingly innocuous places to eat while he is with his buddies. That is now a deal breaker of rme, never was before, but is now. So yes, I am definitely spelling things out for him where I just never even thought I would have to do that before. DUH.

Lionee: I agree. Hard to see them struggle with being a better person.

I'm wondering why I continue to go pain shopping.

The rational part of me knows it's not good and it just leads to worse things that I can ill afford-wasted time, not being available/present for my kids. And, half of it isn't even true.

But, clearly I get something out of it...or I wouldn't be doing it.

Is it so I never feel safe around my husband on purpose? To sabotage when things are going well?

Fool me once, shame on me...fool me twice...shame on you..

I just need to have a quick vent. Backstory, my husband had always been horrible with intimacy. He never initiates. It has always been depressing to me, and something we fight a lot about. After dday,I told him I wouldn't initiate anymore. It was too hard for me. He would have to take the lead now.

So he did. We had hysterical bonding for like six months. Then everything died again. No more sex. More sex fights. I told him over and over that he needs to make me feel wanted.

Well, last night he initiated. Great! After while we were talking I realized he only did it to "be the good husband". I was upset. I told him I wanted him to desire to be with me. He then said "if I only initiated when I desired it, we would never have sex".

Heartbroken doesn't accurately describe my feelings. Why doesn't he desire me? He desired all those whores he had cyber sex with! He could have sex with them everyday! I am not asking for everyday! I am so hurt. So lost.

He does everything right. He hasn't relapsed. But I don't think I want to stay anymore. He thinks after all we have been through that it is crazy to divorce over sex. But I don't feel desired by my husband. This is a miserable life. I just want out.

O dear Briar Your H sounds really really dopey for not understanding, not feeling your pain; not getting what you are saying.

Don't know your story but you're asking why he doesn't desire you but has no problem with the cyber sex ladies. The answer is the cyber sex ladies are not real.

You say your H is an SA. SAs typically have emotional anorexia and the kind of desire I think you are talking about involves a deep, personal connection. It's the kind connection that some SA's typically avoid--typically do not want--typically are uncomfortable with. So it wouldn't be a divorce over sex it would be a divorce for a lack of true complete intimacy in the relationship. Again, forgive me if Im not getting it either, but I think the desire you're talking about goes deep and full--it's the whole you you want him to want; it's the whole you you want him to express himself to and that for an SA can be very difficult.

But not impossible. If your H is really wanting to change into a normal, healthy person, someone capable of real, human intimacy, real human desire, then if he is working in all possible ways to achieve that change then there is hope. If he's not really working at it--at learning--at becoming--then it may not happen.

But you Briar can work on you, and take care for you no matter what.

Yes, their ways can be heart breaking but you don't have to live with a broken heart. Whichever way he decides to go, you can go on to a fulfilling and happy life. His sickness need not rob your joy. We have to keep telling ourselves that and we have to keep working on ourselves to find a good place inspire of what they do.

O dear Briar Your H sounds really really dopey for not understanding, not feeling your pain; not getting what you are saying.

Don't know your story but you're asking why he doesn't desire you but has no problem with the cyber sex ladies. The answer is the cyber sex ladies are not real.

You say your H is an SA. SAs typically have emotional anorexia and the kind of desire I think you are talking about involves a deep, personal connection. It's the kind connection that some SA's typically avoid--typically do not want--typically are uncomfortable with. So it wouldn't be a divorce over sex it would be a divorce for a lack of true complete intimacy in the relationship. Again, forgive me if Im not getting it either, but I think the desire you're talking about goes deep and full--it's the whole you you want him to want; it's the whole you you want him to express himself to and that for an SA can be very difficult.

But not impossible. If your H is really wanting to change into a normal, healthy person, someone capable of real, human intimacy, real human desire, then if he is working in all possible ways to achieve that change then there is hope. If he's not really working at it--at learning--at becoming--then it may not happen.

But you Briar can work on you, and take care for you no matter what.

Yes, their ways can be heart breaking but you don't have to live with a broken heart. Whichever way he decides to go, you can go on to a fulfilling and happy life. His sickness need not rob your joy. We have to keep telling ourselves that and we have to keep working on ourselves to find a good place inspire of what they do.

Contradictions of life...and a win for my H, mixed in with some old behavior.

This is long. Feel free to ignore.

Saturday was a scheduled event that I have been looking forward to for months. An optics sale, annual, I've been saving for new binoculars for awhile. I told H about it, let him know that I wanted to go EARLY, even mentioned he may want to go to a different SA meeting instead of his Saturday one, which he did on Thursday night. Friday morning comes and he says he wants to do his regular SA meeting, too. My first reaction was that he needed it, I'm not questioning why. Then I pressed him. Turns out, during the week, he was contacted by someone who wanted him to run the Beginnings class, which is AFTER his meeting, he said yes.

What? Clearly old thinking. "I" can be disappointed. He can let me down, say no to me, but doesn't dare say no to anyone else. I was pissed. I'd either have to wait to go, possibly missing out on the deal I was hunting, or go by myself, an hour ride and then bird watching by myself and eating alone, etc. I did far too much on my own in the old days. I started to turn off the light and (probably) seethe so much all night I'd never get to sleep. Instead I confronted him, nicely, told him that this was old behavior, he had made someone else a priority and I was annoyed. He listened, agreed and said he'd text someone in the AM to tell them he couldn't do it. Good. Of course, now I'm feeling a little guilty because I've caused him to let down someone else. I quickly squashed that. I was justified in my request. Funny, HE couldn't sleep, he who is asleep before his head hits the pillow. I heard him get up and didn't hear him when he came back to bed.

Good. I considered that a good sign and healthy interaction. We went early, got TWO pairs of binoculars at a reasonable price, took a walk on the beach and had a great lunch at a favorite restaurant. I'm sure the class was fine without him.

And then...

Another vent...sorry ladies, you are my go to audience.

My H loses things. All kinds of things (including himself, in Paris, I digress) He recently lost a good, but not expensive, camera on a trip, leaving him without for his scuba excursion. I no longer "find" things for him, he no longer accuses me of hiding his stuff.

I'm not immune. I don't always know where my keys are, my cellphone, etc. I use a "tile." It helps. But my keys are on a long lanyard (purple, sentimental value, "Library Goddess" lanyard.) Happy feelings about it.

I don't give him the key to my leased car. Too risky. He can use mine anytime. But he takes the car key off the lanyard. I don't know how many times he's said indignantly, "I won't LOSE it!" Well, you guessed it, he lost it. It didn't have any keys on it, but it had the rest of my life. My gym card, my store loyalty cards, library card, AAA, etc. None of it is irreplaceable, but all a pain to replace, except for the lanyard itself. But man! I am annoyed. Not just for the lanyard, but all of it.

I'm not smarter than him, I am more practical. Over the years I have made suggestions that are ignored if not openly received with hostility. ("It might help if you always put your keys and wallet in this LARGE container I've left here for your convenience." "It's probably a good idea to put the maximum amount you can into that retirement account since your employer is matching it 100%." "Here is the address of the hotel in case you get separated. Slip it in your wallet.") Of course he did none of those things, hence the "lost in Paris" part.

Some of this is just plain denial, (of course he won't lose it!) some of it is dumbass stuff.

But some of it is residual stinkin' thinkin. (I'm NOT doing that because she is suggesting it!) Nyah, nyah, nyah.

Like Ashes often says, I don't know if he has the time left in his life to change completely. But this makes me nuts.

To be sure, he will NEVER take my keys of whatever lanyard I find, ever again. Maybe that's progress?

(((Lionne))) Totally hear you!

The longer I hang around iwIth my SAWH, the broader my umbrella spreads for what behaviors of his I react to as somehow “disrespectful” or just “thoughtless!” Which really sucks when he is just being plain old simple.

I wonder if that is because I am waking up to how disrespectful he has always been to his “wife,” or tiredness on my part.

In any case, thoughtlessness on their part - or refusal to encode their partner’s input - still hurts, there is no doubt about it!

Years ago, I read a study that the most happily married men were those who learned to listen to - and respond appropriately to - their wives. Seems some of these guys didn’t get the memo!

[This message edited by Superesse at 10:05 PM, April 15th (Sunday)]