SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DH has supposedly been one year sober, since the beginning of April.

While not fool proof, he does know I wanted to see that chip. The last kid went to bed an hour ago...and nothing...

He already knows I'm struggling with the fact that his addiction will always come first. I mean, we just talked about it this morning. We also talked about how I think he's already getting complacent with doing the work to make amends with me. I mean, this morning again, I was pretty blunt..by telling him "At least the first time I got two good years after discovering your addiction...now I get one after the relapse..

I've shared with him that I just don't think he really gets it...that mentally he's so used to putting himself first...that I don't know that he's capable of changing.

You'd think he'd find a way to be stealth about showing me the chip to alleviate my anxiety. Or to prove any of the above is wrong.

How to cope? Actually I was on AD's for a couple of decades before d-day. I went off of them d-day even though my PCP wanted to up them. I said no more! I think they made me complacent, more able to put up with behavior for my WS that I should never have tolerated, let alone made excuses for, and they definitely killed my sex drive. Not that any of this is an excuse for WH's behavior, but I like myself better off the AD's and he does too in the drive area. I'm a bitchier version of myself and a happier version of myself. It was like the AD's cut off both ends of my personality. Working here for now. I do take the occasional xanax to get by, but not often. More often I exercise, meditate, go on SI, drink herbal teas, tend to myself in healthier ways.

Funny thing is, now WH is the one needing the meds to get by...hmmm. I'm worried about him, but that is what happens when you neglect yourself physically and emotionally for years and focus on other things

Rant-

The things they don’t think of - the jerks

I can start a list but specifically right now I’m at my GYN yearly appt. I have had a complete hysterectomy and a family history if cancers, etc, so I go in every year. I have some concerns this time I’d probably skip it for a bit longer.

So I have my list of STD tests. This will make 4 medical dr’s, 1 psychiatrist, 4 counselors, and 2 women’s groups I have had to talk to and as far as I’m concerned I don’t talk to strangers about my private business. Not to mention the accountability partners wives.

I am feeling very angry right now

The things they don’t think of

My humiliation

Losing their kids respect

Etc

Yeah. I detest going to the OBGYN. I waited for the nurse to walk out this last time, so I could again ask for reassurance that I'm all clear. UGH.

Ok fellow warriors. I need some input. Some things over the Christmas holidays pushed me over the cliff so, Jan.2 I was sitting in the attorney’s office with a retainer. As we went over finances and debt, it turns out there is the possibility that I would have to pay spousal support since my earnings were significantly higher last year. OH, HELL NO! I didn’t file at that time.

Since then we have been able to have friendly conversation and a fairly congenial atmosphere. We haven’t had sex for over 6 months because I kept seeing concerning behavior. He had been in weekly IC with CSAT for the last 10 months and weekly meetings since his confirmed SA diagnoses. Thing is, he stopped going to IC about 6 weeks ago because he says she isn’t helping him. He feels like he has all he needs to know from his white book. He is disenchanted with his meetings because he doesn’t like the leader or his style of conducting the meetings. Sound familiar?

I have specifically asked him what tools he is using to manage his sobriety since we are not being intimate. His answer was “I’m not doing anything”. Hmmmm. So last week I find out that he had asked for some Viagra samples at his last appointment with his PCP. I work in the same office with the nurse and in an innocent conversation, this information comes out.

This is not the first time we have addressed the problem of boner pills. I’m so tired of being broadsided with new shit. It’s been 5 years since discovery and My healing keeps getting set back with shit like this. I’m coming to realize that his problem(s) are most likely far worse than I ever imagined so, I know I can’t keep doing this.

He has minimized getting the samples (I wanted to use them with you) He says he has no secrets and is willing to do a polygraph to prove it. I’ve scheduled it for this Friday. I have an idea that he feels he can beat it because he really is just that cocky.

For those of you who have done this, what questions did you ask or wished you had? The guy doing the test is experienced with SA and he says he has some standard ones to help him gauge if he is being truthful. I only get 4 questions so, help me with this please. Plans on going forward are going to be heavily based on the outcome of the testing. Thoughts, ideas?

I did the usual, asked if he was online, sexting, texting, phone calls, flirting, etc.

In my case there was also a significant AP, I asked if there was any contact with her. Any contact in any way. And as long as we live in the same state that will get asked.

The first polygraph there were also standard questions such as -paying for HOVA (hand, oral, anal, vaginal) sex

Your poly person being experienced will help, i told ours my concerns, he came up with questions and suggestions.

I’m so sorry you have to go thru this!

outta nowhere - The polygraph my H did last fall was a two-step process. He first met twice with an LCPC whose work is 90% with court-appointed sexual offenders, and this guy did a sexual assessment/inventory.

At the time, I (and our MC, as well as his IC) did not know about his pornography use and one-time attempt to hire a sex worker in Amsterdam eight years ago, so we only focused on whether he had been truthful in sharing all significant information regarding affairs. Until a couple of weeks ago, H had forgotten about his attempt to hire the sex worker - he was very drunk and couldn't get it up, so he was laughed out of the establishment. I told him it gave me some satisfaction that he'd been laughed out, and he said that that's probably why he had suppressed that memory... that he'd been humiliated; so a couple of weeks ago, he'd been reading a lot of books about sex addiction over several days (right after his diagnosis was made) and woke up one morning around 4:30AM and remembered this event; he shared it with me the next day when we were in our MC's office.

So the LCPC explained to us how the polygraph happens... based on this interview, he and H came up with maximum four questions - any more and the reliability of the test drops. So we only focused on questions about the affairs since we didn't know about the other stuff. When H met with the guy who administered the test (a long-time CIA interrogator who started doing this when he retired from the CIA), they fine-tuned a couple of the questions. A polygraph is meant to be given such that, the testee has to answer 'no' to be truthful to the question being asked. So H passed his polygraph regarding affair information, and he passed so clearly that the guy said to him, "I'm probably never going to see you again (due to H being so cooperative and successful with the test), so I'll tell you a little about how and why I do what." And he proceeded to tell H some stuff. It was actually fascinating and after we learned what we did, knew how the test was designed to catch people's responses and measure them against responses that make them uncomfortable (for instance, in the beginning, they ask you a number of questions unrelated to the issue they're there for, such as, "Have you ever lied to a boss or co-worker"). After measuring those responses, they can ask the 3-4 questions specifically related to what you want, but again, it has to be in the form of giving an answer where saying no is the truth.

I think when the LCPC was in the process of interviewing H, he also spoke with our MC and she might have had a couple of suggestions regarding questions. She's the one who actually gave us the name of the LCPC, who in turn, had the polygrapher name to recommend.

H met with the LCPC again last week upon our MC's recommendation since we now wanted to understand the extent of his pornography watching, and he went through another round of assessing his use od porn. He did not recommend another polygraph based on that one visit, but we haven't seen our MC since then, so we're not sure why he didn't recommend it. The LCPC said he was going to call her and give her a report, so I'm sure we'll hear about it tomorrow when we see her.

But yea, the questions need to be very specific and good test givers know what words to avoid such that there's no ambiguity in what's being asked. So you may have some questions you'd like asked, but the question may get tweaked a bit. In the end, a polygraph will never say you lied; it will only say the answer given was inconclusive.

It really tears me up! He has changed SO much and truly is a different guy BUT, there is still something there that won’t let my gut rest. He denied doing anything but, I KNOW better! You only get Viagra for one thing. The sneaky, secretive behavior drives me nuts! He says he wants to surprise me but...come on! I have out and out told him that I hate surprises and to stop assuming that I actually want what he thinks I want.

I truly wonder if he has the mental capacity for understanding the true meaning of intimacy. I just know I would absolutely love to experience it. If not with him, somebody!

This is why I rarely post. It just all seems so complicated but, when you take a few steps back, the answers are so clear.

outtanowhere: there are some definite red flags there for sure. No sex for six months and he's getting viagra samples. Good luck with the polygraph.

I'm concerned because my WH has been carrying a small bottle of lubricant with him in his suitcase on business trips. Ok, why. I asked him months ago and he said it was for when I travel with him. Well, that happens but its not that often. He really never fully unpacks his travel kit in his suitcase because he is gone so often. We discussed it in MC but she didn't seem that concerned. I dunno. He travels a lot. I don't like him having it with him and he's put it in an unmarked travel bottle anyway which seems odd to me. I don't like it. Thoughts?

Oh yeah, I found a bottle of lotion and at least 100 restaurant napkins in the side panel of his truck and, $100 dollar bills in the console. Says he some some scrap metal and that’s the way they paid him. He has always had a “reasonable” explanation for everything!

And Xanax? I have 3 refills and don’t care what people think. The don’t know my story.

outtanowhere -I like your philosophy about xanax.

So before I put this out there, please, if this forum is not the appropriate place to discuss this, I hope the moderators will delete it.

I am struggling with finding a support group. Years ago, I was very active in a big ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) group, and learned so much about working a 12-step program, etc. I stopped going when too many members (in my opinion) started making sure everyone knew when they shared that their Higher Power was Jesus Christ, their Lord and personal savior. It just rubbed me wrong, and I felt like it went against the Traditions.

When H went away to rehab last fall, I found a pretty solid Al-Anon group, and like them. However, I never mentioned the sexual acting out until three weeks ago, on a whim, because I was so desperate to find a group I could talk to about everything I was dealing with (H has been sober from alcohol for 4.5 years, so I honestly don't worry about that). As it ended up, after a half dozen meetings with this group where no one ever talked about infidelity or cheating, 4-5 of us talked about it that night! After H's sex addiction acceptance three weeks ago, we decided we needed to change our 12-step approach; he would go to SAA (their meetings were most convenient), and he likes the group he goes to. Got a sponsor last week and met him for dinner last night. We knew there was such a thing as SA, but their meetings weren't convenient so we didn't even look at them. But last week, we googled the difference between them, and we were both pleased that he found SAA as opposed to SA. SA is very rigid and strict, and defines sobriety for everyone, while SAA allows the member to define his own sobriety, since sexuality is a part of who we are as humans.

So, the S-Anon meeting I went to last night... there were only three ladies, and they hadn't even heard of SAA; they only talk about being affiliated with SA, so here, me, the newcomer, has to explain to them SAA, and the difference between SAA and SA. However, supposedly, S-Anon is affiliated with SA, and that bothers me just a teeny bit. I don't know if there's an equivalent support group for SAA partners. Perhaps it's COSA, but there is not a damned single meeting of COSA in all of our state, much less HUGE metropolitan area. I did put a call into them and left a message to day to see if perhaps there was an oversight on their website, and maybe there is a meeting.

So, my issue is how the women at these meetings are talking about lust, in a very shaming way. Even some of the literature talks about lust. To me, lust is a moral issue, not an addiction; and if you believe addictions are diseases, then there should be no judgment. To be it's contrary to everything I know about how 12-step meetings should work. I GET it.. most sex addicts probably do have a problem with sexual lust, but sexual lust is not the only kind of lust there is, in my opinion. We are ALL human, and every one of us has lusted over something or someone at some points in our lives, perhaps to the point that it has also had devastating effects, so why shame the sex addict? I don't know about you all, but in the beginning, it was sort of reassuring to see the shame H felt as he began to discover how devastating his behavior had been to me. But after a certain amount of time, I get tired of the shame; yes, he should feel guilty about what he did, but everything I've read says shame is about who you are as a person, and guilt is about what you did. I think that people who walk around in shame all the time are not very capable of being in emotionally, intimate relationships, so I'd kind of like to see H's shame start to take a back seat to guilt.

If S-Anon really believes that lust is an issue for every single sex addict and only calls the addict out on lust, then I have a problem and may have to go back to Al-Anon.

Number4

A few things struck me about your post.

I agree addiction has a biological component to it. But. It serves as an explanation, not an excuse.

The definition of judge is to "form a conclusion or opinion about." As the wife of an addict, I need to form my own decisions/conclusions about whether or not I feel my husband is really in recovery. My boundaries dictate this.

I will judge my husband for getting high and lying to me for 18ish years of our 21 year relationship.

I will judge my husband for failing to tell me he relapsed.

I will judge him when he tells me I'm the most important thing in his life and that I mean everything to him, yet his behavior tells me otherwise.

Words are cheap for an addict. The proof is in the behavior.

So, no he doesn't get a pass just because of his biology and addiction runs in his family. We are humans, and should be able to overcome biology.

As for the rest...Forgive me, I know this is *poor* source for an article. But, I thought about lust, and googled the definition. An article to cosmo came up...on whether you are feeling love or lust.

here's the article https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/a12462800/what-does-lust-mean/

Here are some Quotes:

1. You want to know everything and all at once

If the person you're seeing is really meant to be your next significant other - then what’s the rush? After all, all good things come to those who wait. If it’s lust, you’ll try to be all in - and fast - because you won’t be able to wait to get your next fix of those neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin (they're what make you feel really good).

This is EXACTLY how my husband's addition works. Brain chemicals, biology and all of that.

2. You struggle to find commonality

The chemistry may seem to be bang on and will feel like friction, like it’s electric and you just can’t get enough of being in the throws of passion or talking about it. You’ll be addicted to the highs and focus any convo outside of the bedroom on how great your sex is.

Doesn't some of that sound like addiction. They even talk about getting addicted to the highs...

6. Everything else falls by the wayside

Doesn't that sound like an addict putting their addiction above anything? I think that's a pretty standard behavior to expect from addicts. I know I saw it from my husband.

So, for me, lust is not a moral issue. It's an addiction issue. So I am not tolerant of lust, because I am not tolerant of my husband getting high.

It's not about shaming my husband. The feelings he has, as a result of his behavioral choices...they are his to own. I don't "make" him feel anything.

One thing I've found in many years of SA issues is that every single 12step meeting is different. My husband attends SA but originally went to SAA. Just a geography thing. SAA was MUCH more rigid.

I'm not sure of my opinion on lust. My gut says that it's about control, and about that reptilian part of brains. I do know that SA clearly rejects masturbating, "sex with oneself." It's slippery slope stuff for many sex addicts. Yes, sex is normal, but addicts pervert it and have to learn to normalize their sexual behaviors. That can take YEARS.

If SAA works better for you, good. As to SANON, there is a bit of a tendency to be rigid there, too. The organization itself frowns upon any discussion of literature and techniques from sources other than SANON. Fortunately, my group tend to ignore that. Conversations definitely include many different sources of information. You may find that there are others who feel the way you do. Nevertheless, the BEST part of 12 step work is to "take what you need and leave the rest." Do that. Learn about healthy boundaries, self care and to give up control over things that your cannot control.

God, Outta, I'm so sorry. This has truly been a complete and utter nightmare for you. You are in my prayers.

[This message edited by Lionne at 7:56 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Outta, I am SO Sorry. The Viagra stuff scares me.

I am convinced, but do not have proof my STBX cheated on me our whole relationship bit mostly one off situations. His AP introduced him to this underground doctor that dispenses very large doses of Cialis. He went downhill fast after that. Just could not get enough sex. 3x a day with me and then more with AP.

I was stupid in the beginning trying to "win" him before I understood any of this.

I am moving on. It's hard, to move forward with these folks in D. STBX is in major denial. Plus I do make more than him. So I have to buy him out and possibly spousal support. It sucks at first but then you get to the point where that is even better than "they" in your life.

Hugs, SMJ, number4, outta and sami and secondtime

Wish me luck.

Was thinking of Ashes last night watching Harry Potter...i need some healing tears.

Lionne hope you are doing well

Lavender - that sucks, spousal support! Thank you for the hug.

Are there any success stories? I’m feeling sort of hopeless today

Hi - After 3.5 years of recovery, I think my husband is very sober. Do I think he's completely sober? No, but much, much more sober than he has been since he was a boy. But, he is so very, very immature and unhealthy. In MC we are really getting down to his intimacy disorder. He can't bear my emotions; he blames me for how he feels; he can't handle his emotions; he fears I'll leave him and he fears getting close; he can't accept compassion or understanding and goes on the attack. He is DEEPLY ef'ed up.

So the success here, for me, is that I FINALLY have an MC who sees this, gets it, acknowledges it, and says it out loud. I can't tell you how great it is to no longer be told I'm the problem; I don't see how great my husband is; I expect too much; I need to take care of him more.... None of that.

It's terribly sad, of course, but I feel such a release of all the lies and gaslighting. Wish I hadn't gone through any of it. I'm not optimistic my husband can address these deep seated issues given his age, but I don't feel any need to do anything about him. It's his problem.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 5:55 PM, April 6th (Friday)]

Thanks Lavender! I'm okay. Feeling sorry for myself, my IC is flaring and has been for weeks. It's not a life threatening condition, but it sucks.

Lionne, my mother had “colitis” for the last 10 years of her marriage to my father, she actually was losing blood. She went to doctor after doctor. I am convinced the cause was her bad feelings about her marriage. She hung in there with my father in IHS (he was an alcoholic) until the last of us went off to college. She really suffered with it, until she left him. Amazingly then it cleared up. Just her story.

But truly it sucks that you are having to deal with this.

My blood pressure has been high for months and months, and I suspect that fact is related to trying to decide what to do about my IHS of 16 years. Stalemate isn’t healthy for us.

I just finally broke down and started the 2nd Rx my doctor ordered me to take last fall (I am stubborn). It did bring my bp back down from really scary to reasonably normal, with only a few minor side effects (tiredness, taste in mouth). I just hated having to ramp up my meds due to his Infidelity!! But no doubt, part of it is my genetics, lifestyle, and diet, as well. We need to do something more, to counteract this stress, I think!

Anyway, here is wishing us all a way OUT of this! Hugs to ALL!

Did you all see in the news where the Backpage website has been shut down and the founder is the subject of a human trafficking investigation?