SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"Having sex with your best friend, having sex with her friend's husband, having sex in your home WHEN YOU ARE RIGHT THERE, texting right in front of you ..."

Actually, it wasn't his best friend. The wife was her bff. And I think this happens a lot.

texting right in front of you happens a lot.

the sex thing though, I have not heard of that one and I support any BS who wants to recover with that in their narrative. I couldn't do it myself though.

Yep, double betrayal happens...a lot!

Texting AP right under our noses...happens. all. the. time.

Having sex in the marital home and the marital bed...happens sometimes and isn't "abnormal" behaviour for a cheater. I have read it countless times here at SI. It is common enough.

No one needs to make anything our WS's do "worse" or to be catastrophizing. They have already done the worst, all the accompaniments added to the shit sandwich that is being served to us is just that. The flavor of the betrayal.

Everyone gets to draw a line in the sand for themselves and no one needs anyone else telling them that their WS's actions are crossing the line and somehow worse than anyone else's particular situation.

That being said, I do understand how doing it in your own home and/or bed could be a very huge source of anger and hurt for the BS.

ETA: IOW's, it is not a bigger sign of disrespect to a BS or a giant "fuck you" to the BS if the WS does have sex in the home or marital bed. How can infidelity be any more disrespectful than it already is? It can't. Everything about it is disrespectful, there are no levels to disrespect.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:51 AM, June 4th (Monday)]

Joel. My heart goes out to you. You only found out about this one week ago! Of COURSE you are still struggling to wrap your mind around all of this. Give yourself a break. This is tough stuff. Most of us could barely function one week after DDay. Unfortunately healing takes time. Just be kind to yourself. Take the rest one step at a time. Gaining control (even if little steps) helps you feel better and you will make progress. There’s no FF>> button you can press. Clarity will come as you process. Take a deep breath and do something nice for yourself today.

I’m sorry for the pain you’re going through. It WILL get better.

My fWH cheated with one MOW in our home and bed. That bed and couch are burned and we use the bedroom for storage. Sometimes the MOW "surprise" visited him while he was outside on our property and I was home.

For him it was a matter of convenience and a feeling of entitlement and not as a bigger "F" you to me. Like SMS stated the infidelty covers the disrespect already.

For the MOW it was done to try to do as much damage to me and our M as possible. She also hid things in my home and put salt in the sugar canister right before she revealed the A to me after being dumped. This stalker MOW was mate poaching in effort to raise her financial stature. Also some APs like her really relish in desecrating the marital home, bed, vehicle you name it. They get off on it.

This definitely increases the horror because our safe space was violated (like being in a horror movie). It adds an extra layer of trauma. I suspect the AP has a lot of resentment towards you and he was also game in using the home for his own reasons.

Lots of cheaters plan, pre-meditate and manipulate. So your WW getting the shot is similar to when a guy buys condoms or gets viagra/cialis. It's good she didn't get pregnant as so many cheaters don't bother with birth control is one way to look at this.

Who knows if your WW is a serial cheater... maybe a poly would help resolve this question.

My fWH swore he cheated with just one AP. But the Ashley Madison hack revealed 3 years later he had lied about that. So I'm always skeptical when they claim it was just one AP. When some get in that mindset they act out more than they want you to know. Just something for you to be aware of. My fWH was a very convincing liar. Aren't they all...

[This message edited by whattheh at 12:49 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

it is not a bigger sign of disrespect to a BS or a giant "fuck you" to the BS

Sister, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't know if having sex with your WW in your home or bed had any special significance for her. She didn't think she would get caught so she thought you'd never know. If she had understood any of the disrespect for this A she wouldn't have had it in the first place and given her reaction of wanting to stay in the M I'm thinking it was just convenience and ease for her.

I do think the POSOM got off on the idea. I think he enjoyed knowing he was taking this from your life. Certainly have no basis for this, I don't know him, but when the OM is someone that worked for you like he did I think he was coveting your life, possessions, money, wife, etc. And I think he tried to take them literally in the case of your WW and figuratively here by doing things in your house. Sort of equivalent to peeing in your yard like a dog would do.

Sister, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Sure we can disagree. There is no way to prove either one of us "right" or "wrong". These are our opinions. However, I don't have a scale of level of disrespect for infidelity. Do you? Is this universally accepted and agreed upon?

What level of disrespect is having an affair:

Whilst your BS has cancer and neither of you know if they will survive or not?

Whilst the BW is pregnant?

Whilst the BS is deployed?

Having a LTA, lets say, for 7 years?

Fucking your BS's sibling or parent?

IDK, I can't put any of these on a scale of more or less disrespect. Which one of these aren't a "Fuck You" to the BS, which ones show greater disrespect, in your opinion?

eta: to make sense

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:06 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

Most cheaters have sex where they feel they can get away with it. No real thought to it or behind where or when they chose.

We read all the time about parking lot sex, sex in public parks, people sneaking out in middle of night and leaving kids alone in bed, sex in the marital bed, cheating on honeymoon, taking bs on a cruise AND ap and having sex with both, sex with ap and bs on same day, kissing bs after oral on ap, etc. you name it.

Its ALL bad. It all feels THE. WORST. EVER. It is. To you. Because it happened to you. Bad as the shit that happened to me was (kissing WS after she blew an ap, sex in marital bed, introducing an ap to my daughter) its still just my pain, my story, and not better or worse pain or betrayal than another's. We mostly all learn that on this site eventually. I say mostly because some always say that's the worst ever to each new poster and some hold on to their pain and can't see or grasp the pain of others.

You wont believe this NOW but one day you will realize we bs were mostly just white background static to our ws during the affair(s). Barely worth a passing thought except how to lie to us and hide it. Obviously that layer of the infidelity onion isnt pleasant either.

Her on the marital bed with ap or while you were asleep will still sting, you will still feel it to be a bit more on the shit sandwich but you will also realize she didn't do it to 'spite you' but did it because she could, she wanted to, and because you never been crossed her radar while she was doing it. She did it 'despite you'. See the difference?

I'm sorry. Your wife cheated. It sucked. I know. We can help you and want to. But it doesn't help you for you to believe your wife is the worst cheater ever on a site with so many members. Its not true. Your story isnt especially shocking it's just another sorid tale of infidelity and that story is as old as we humans can remember.

The most important things right now are drinking WATER, make sure you eat, shower, and sleep. The basics. Right now you need to survive a few days while you come out of shock. Take care of you.

Once you are stable you can take a deep breath and then take another step forward. Its a marathon, not a sprint.

[This message edited by william at 2:29 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

Keep with the 180 until you decide you're ready to move ahead Joel.

I don't agree that you should wait on the post nuptial. It's best to get it done while she's still in the regret/fear phase and before you decide whether you're going to continue with her. I recommend that you meet with a good lawyer, get the draft started today, and have it ready for her to see the final version for the first time in a week or two. She lost the right to input her preferences in the agreement so she signs whatever you hand her. Her breaking down at this point is not your problem and would be a better response than what I'm reading as her current non-empathetic mechanical responses.

Make sure you protect your and your kids futures. It's not selfish or self serving to protect your current and future assets from your dysfunctional wife. You'll thank yourself years from now for taking action.

I read your Q&A. OMG, I had to take a break in the middle; I can imagine what agony you were experiencing. I wouldn't want to go there again; it truly changes one's view of their spouse.

It's good to see that you have a family support team with your brothers/sisters. The pain, though it seems impossible now, will subside over time. You'll get through this and regardless of your decisions you'll be a better person because of it. Take care of yourself Joel.

[This message edited by Dismayed2012 at 2:39 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

Sistermilkshake, at the risk of a bit of a TJ, there have been threads about your question. I do think that in the minds of most BS there are degrees of betrayal, things a WS might do that are forgivable for a remorseful WS, and other things unforgivable no matter how remorseful and hard-working the WS has become. I think this is highly subjective and personal to the BS, normally linked to personal insecurities of the BS.

Butforthegrace

things a WS might do that are forgivable for a remorseful WS, and other things unforgivable no matter how remorseful and hard-working the WS has become. I think this is highly subjective and personal to the BS, normally linked to personal insecurities of the BS.

Exactly! I agree with you. That is why some that are pushing their agenda on what Joel's line should be for what is forgivable and what isn't, I feel, is inappropriate. Joel gets to decide, he doesn't need those pushing what would be unforgivable for them.

eta; to fix grammer

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:56 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

"normally linked to personal insecurities of the BS.

replace insecurities with dealbreakers. There is nothing insecure about drawing a line.

But isn't that the point? Its up to Joel.

If he finds it unforgiveable and decides to file for D tomorrow then we support him.

If he decides his wife's behaviour now warrants waiting and seeing then deciding we support him.

If he decides to r we support him.

We can offer advice. We can give cautionary tales. We cant tell him its the worst ever betrayal and file now. That's not support. Nor supportive.

Someone upthread I believe posted "the worse betrayal is the one that happens to you". I agree with that. Sorry I couldn't find the quote to give the member credit. Please raise your hand if that was your post and to let me know if I quoted you correctly.

there have been threads about your question.

I don't think I have ever seen a thread on SI asking for or pronouncing levels of betrayal from least to worst. I have seen threads where some want to know which is worse, EA or PA? And, ONS less painful than longer affairs? The consensus of most of those threads is that it is neither helpful or productive to compare pain and betrayals. It inevitably leads to many hurt feelings of members.

Joel:

You are less than a week out from your DDay. Take a deep breath and some quiet time for yourself to process your emotions. Infidelity causes intense pain. Take care of yourself. Eat healthy, stay hydrated, and get sleep. As you move ahead realize that you are in control of your own destiny be it R or D. As you can see there are many different opinions available here. Take the ones you can use and leave the rest. You know your WW better than any of us internet strangers. But there are some recurring patterns in cheaters behavior that we can help you identify and look out for should they materialize. Strength to you as you move forward.

It's best to get it done while she's still in the regret/fear phase and before you decide whether you're going to continue with her. I recommend that you meet with a good lawyer, get the draft started today, and have it ready for her to see the final version for the first time in a week or two. She lost the right to input her preferences in the agreement so she signs whatever you hand her.

Yes and yes. Dismayed is correct.

She is somewhat on her heels, keep her there. Seize the moment and lock in the best deal for yourself and the children now.

Soon the ultra entittled personality (her apparent default) may reappear and make things more difficult.

I may have missed it, but I don't see anyone pushing their agenda. We give advice and opinions. What Joel sees or doesn't see as pertinent in his situation is his alone to decide, as we all do.

Some, especially women in my experience, feel violated in a particularly way when their home space has been "contaminated". a ONS as opposed to a LTA, a stranger as opposed to a friend or family, yeah, I think there are degrees betrayal and disrespect once you cross the line.

Enough t/j, perhaps a seperate thread.

How are doing today Joel ?

I was just about to post the same. How are you today? Plz let us know!

Hi I'm so sorry this happened to you. My WH said the same 'just 3 times, in a car in a parking lot.

I believed that for 2 months....and then I got hotel receipts. I think they are lying to you about when and where and how frequently. If you start digging for answers, be ready for some shocks and more hurt.

Look at the calendar for the past year. Did she take any weird unnecessary overnight business trips. Unexplained late night out with 'girlfriend s'? Review your bank statements, she was probably paying cash for everything since it sounds like she has more means than him. Look for odd large withdrawals, transferring money around through different accounts to hide the trail and maybe even review her credit card statements if she will give them to you.

I was surprised how easy it was to call a hotel and say 'hi I stayed there a while ago and I lost my receipt. I need it for my work expense report. Could you be so kind to email me a copy of it? My last name? Sure its ------'. Hotel front desks are ever so helpful and very eager to please.

Your WW sounds so much like my WH/STBXH. Casting blame on everyone else. Because I was so mean....because OW was so flirty and unrelenting...because it was a mistake....

He still hasn't accepted responsibility or shown remorse. Our MC even said that she didnt get the feeling he was remorseful.

Take your time, and don't make any big decisions. It took me 4 months to finally come to the conclusion that my WH is a narcissist and we need to D. In the meantime, take care of yourself, protect your finances, and dont let her blame her behaviour on anyone but herself. She didn't make a mistake. She made a choice. Over and over again.