SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This questions can hold value (IMO) for a few reasons..

1- to a new WW coming out of the fog, it can help to "enlighten" and fade the fog.

2- to a WW that visits SI, there does seem to be more WW's than WH's and I have wondered why that is... they bounce back sooner and don't come on anymore? Or they still lurk and aren't as broken to need more advice? Or is there really that many more of WW's than there are WH's? ANd if that is the case, why? It certainly shouldn't be considering the amount of BW that are out there. Maybe social forums just aren't their thing? It is helpful for fellow waywards to hear others stories of overcoming infidelity.

3- while the responses here may come from opinions, truthfully most responses here also come from opinions. Does there always have to be statistically facts that back up the wisdom that a persons finds the most insightful?

4- my A recovery has lead me to questions things about human behavior that I never have before. The psychology, philosophical, internal, experiences of others here has been eye opening and truly helped me to understand myself in a way that I haven't before.

While it may be a generalizing question, it is still valid and can hold insight for those in recovery. That is why I am interested and think it is relevant.

For my part I do not post often because I was raised not to air dirty laundry publicly. when I have posted it was out of frustration and vulnerability and franklly a need to vent with no other outlet.

I try to avoid postly and 'enjoying' the anonymity afforded by the internet. It is something that I think has contributed to many of the situations which brought so many here to SI and some of the incivility we encounter today.

Posting as a member***

At the risk of generalizing I think that women often tend to look for support structures in times of crisis. Men aren't as likely to seek out those same structures. Men often feel like they need to deal with it alone. I think that is why you see a lot of WWs on SI. Plus SI is well moderated. If you've ever read on another board that is not SI you see that WS often get bashed so heavily that the leave and never come back. I believe the goal of SI is to create a safe space for everyone. You can't fix half of a problem and expect the other half to magically resolve itself.

I used to be like that. I 100% was embarrassed to talk to anybody about what I was going through. The shame I would feel with someone else knowing seemed worse than the pain that I was feeling. Why? Because the societal norm seems to push that BS are at fault for their WS choices.

If WW cheats then "Well he must not been a very good husband."

If a WH cheats then "Well she must not have been a very good wife."

Why do people think that way ? Because it creates illusion that they have more control over their lives than they actually do. A related matter is " If my spouse cheats I will D them." It allows the fear and uncomfortable thought to be assigned a strategy so we it can be mentally filed away and they get on with their lives.

The real truth is that no one really understands either side of this unless they have walked a mile in those shoes. Even on here WS don't always understand what a BS goes through and vice versa. It is probably the largest creator of "disagreements" we see on here.

I gotta agree with woe.

I'm not a 2 dimensional cardboard cutout figure. I'm a lil bit deeper than rideitout is portraying.

Been when single, young, naive, and horny I KNEW it wasn't smart to F everything I could. Might have been sex, fleet good, and more is generally better than none but there are indeed other considerations.

What about when you are 18 and one of your little sisters 15 yr old friends spends the night over with her but slips into my bed at 1 am naked - worth risking jail?

What about the girl that goes to every Friday night high school party, gets drunk + stoned, and winds up getting gang banged by 2-3 dudes (different ones each Friday) in a parked car - worth risking the diseases or the claim of rape when she passes out, gets found by the cops, her parents shit, and rather than admit its happened many times before and she instigated it the prior times and this time (and asked me a few times to come be one of the guys at the car) she claims to gave been raped (3 dudes DID go to jail). Worth it?

Or what about the girl that is kinda cute, is definitely 19 when you are 17, wants to have sex ... But looks like she is maybe 14. Doesn't the ick factor come into play?

Or the don't stick your d*ck in crazy? Or at work or with a co-worker because if it goes wrong it could risk your job?

Or because you are married and made a commitment to be honest and faithful. Semper fidelis, eh?

When you die all you leave behind of you is your reputation. What about that?

I think this Convo tosses around a ton of generalizations. Sometimes generalizations are helpful in life. I firmly believe this isnt one of those times.

More its akin to the what's worse: an ea or pa question. There is no definitive answer.

I don't hang out with guys who think with their penis. I know some and know they exist, but I don't associate with them. Nor with women who think with their vagina. Know some of them too.

Studies show hanging around shitty company doesn't make them better but does indeed make us worse. I rather suspect the answer to this question can be used to direct correlate with what types of people one associates with. Hang out with people who F everything they can and ... Wait for it ... Assume that is the normal just because its the normal in what that person sees in their life. Hang out with people who aren't toads and ... Wait for it ... Its normal to see the people around you as better people and since they are better people bit still willing to associate with you then that means 'you' are having to be a bit better of a person too or else they stop associating with 'you'.

<--- gets off the soap box in Hyde park now. Sorry for the wild eyes rant.

This is my own personal experience. I’m a WW. I’m also a whore, slut, damaged goods, tainted and I wear a huge scarlet letter A on my shirt. I’m scarred in so many ways I question if I’ll ever enjoy sex to the fullest again. My BH places so much value on being more experienced than me that I can’t possibly fix this. My own mother called me a slut even when I was still a virgin (I had a lot of male friends). The double standard is alive and well. It’s ok for men to want sex but if women do they are promiscuous sluts. It’s socially acceptable for men to have many partners it’s not for women. Having a high sex drive ruined my life. I’m seen as less feminine for wanting a lot of sex.

Uphill battle? You bet. Again this is what happened in my house. I can’t speak for anyone else.

Edited to add: I was in an EA with my own father (emotional incest). This fucked me up on so many levels. My father bonded with me inappropriately and my mother hated me for it. My BH argues I “should have” know better.

[This message edited by Root at 9:18 AM, June 28th (Thursday)]

This questions can hold value (IMO) for a few reasons..to a new WW coming out of the fog, it can help to "enlighten" and fade the fog.

This. At the sake of being *vulnerable* right now, a few weeks ago I read a comment from a WH on here and then a following comment from another and it hit me like a ton of bricks. It was a wow moment for me, even 16 months later it gave me clarity on my own AP. I don't like to think of him, but when I read the posts I was like,yes, it makes sense now, and if I had read that as a new poster all those months ago, it would have brought me some very good insight on to a mans view of an affair and would have helped me move a bit further into healing.

I do not have any other means to understand the whys, I can't go to a coffee shop and ask around. Maybe I didn't phrase my original question or post correctly, but I was curious to know what holds them back from posts and do they feel their input is not as valuable.

It kind of surprised me to be judged on my own path of healing/journey because I posted this question.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 9:26 AM, June 28th (Thursday)]

I am not sure if any one was judging you, I didn't.

I have wondered the same from time to time - maybe not whether we are more remorseful but why there are WW who post here for long periods of time. I could name lots of WW who I see post often. There are a few WH's that stay and post - but I agree they post differently than the WW.

I don't know if there is an answer to your question. My hypothesis is that women are more aware often of the complex nature of their emotions. They want to understand them, and often many things are led by them. We are raised talking about them and understanding them and processing them. The majority of men are taught to be led by strength and logic. And, I think that there are other men who were taught differently or process differently obviously. I would like to see the processing of more WH's here - that would be interesting to see some of the differences and to understand that perspective more. It seems like we either have long-timers or WH's who post a couple of times and leave. I think the question is valid, just impossible to answer.

WH's motivation is more straight forward. The primary goal of most WH's seems to be "how do I stop chasing skirts". It's not "I'm broken" or "how could I do this". We all (men) kind of know how they could do this, and, if they are broken, so are most of us. Because I get it. I totally understand how a WH operates because I can see that in myself, and it's real dead simple. I know people disagree with me, but, in my eyes, the "work" a WH needs to do is "stop sticking my d**k where it doesn't belong". And I think that a lot of WH's come out of an A pretty much OK except for the damage they caused to their M. They don't have this overwhelming sense of guilt, or the sense of loss that a lot of WW's seem to get. They also don't have all these "why" questions; the why is "I like sex". The deeper "why" is only "why am I such a s**t that does this to my wife" it's not the "who am I" questions that a lot of WW's seem to struggle with.

I am posted as a BW, but if my WH felt his only goal was to "Stop chasing skirts" and he felt the only "work" he needed to do was to "stop sticking his d**k where it did not belong," I would not be trying to R. I think it is harder for my WH to express the remorse and questions he struggles with (one of the things he is working on in IC and we are working on in MC, is his disconnect from his emotions), but I do not doubt he does struggle. I have seen it. I can only speak for my WH but he struggles with expressing his emotions and really being able to be connected to them (thanks to FOO and, IMO, a society that says "Men" should "Man Up" and not feel those emotions).

If there is one thing this process has taught ME is what I will and will not be ok with in my life. My WH can either choose to dig deep and work through this with me, or I am gone. My WH is working hard in IC to figure out what was broken in him that allowed him to be ok with what he did. And that is why I stay. A response of "well, I just need to stop" will not result in me staying in my M.

[This message edited by Alynn0728 at 1:21 PM, June 28th (Thursday)]

Same Alynn. Hard same.

Thankfully not all men are like Rideitout, if they were I'd probably never talk to another one again. 😂 As an attractive female by his own admission he'd be unable to hold a simple conversation with me without scheming ways to get in my pants. Some people are like that but most are a bit more mature regardless of gender.

To the original topic- I think socialization and message boards has more to do with it than actual remorsefulness. One can be ambivalent about an AP and remorseful. Also it could be argued that more WHs tend to drop the AP like yesterday's trash here and don't tend to mourn the loss of them. I doubt there is good data on this stuff though

I agree that there really isn good data. Most of the data is very tainted and biased in one direction or the other.

I think it would be an extremely difficult area to compile data to start and the nature of answers received would be very suspect on regards to honesty.

Although maybe honesty is a bad word choice. People tend to deceive themselves and believe what they tell themselves. This is a very deep and emotional subject.

I could imagine many cheaters who moved on after nuking their spouse telling themselves later it was for the best and all worked out OK but i wonder if they REALLY think that. Conversely every cheater that stayed probably claims remorse. And I'm sure vice versa too.

Thankfully not all men are like Rideitout, if they were I'd probably never talk to another one again. 😂 As an attractive female by his own admission he'd be unable to hold a simple conversation with me without scheming ways to get in my pants. Some people are like that but most are a bit more mature regardless of gender.

Hey, hey hey.. I don't recall saying I would be scheming how to get into your pants (I may have), but that's not really the problem. The problem is that the sexual tension would be there, not because I want it to be, because if I found you very attractive, my view of you would be colored by my sexual attraction. That's it, in a nutshell, and also why having female friends is a "strict no" for me, because I recognize this in myself, I know I treat really attractive women differently and I KNOW WHY I do it. And it's not because they are the most interesting people in the room, it's because the sexual tension I feel leads me to act differently around them.

Can some men control it better? Yes, I'm sure they can. But do all, or substantially all men suffer from this? Yes, they do, it's why things advertised to men often have impossibly beautiful women in the ad; because we are drawn to it like moths to a flame. It's not that we want to be, it's not that's how many/most of us are wired.

In my experience with my ww absolutely not. She is completely self centered.

What exactly does posting on SI have to do with remorse?

Are Wayward Wives More Remorseful?

Imagine if the question were

Are Wayward Husbands More Remorseful?

What kind of backlash would the poster face.

There are 7.6 billion people on the planet and we behave very differently.

Many of us are much more than a bull shark full of testosterone.

Define remorse. Generate data. Then form your hypothesis. But know this. It is just a generalization. No matter how much lipstick and deodorizer you apply

Rideitout I can't quote you, but it was something about how any man having a 1 on 1 interaction with an attractive woman is basically waiting for a turn in the conversation to get to that point or some such. It really is a sign of objectifying a person. Trust me, I have encountered plenty of people (men and women) who have treated me differently than less cute people. I avoid those people and find them creepy because they are treating me different based on something that I literally can't control. Everyone can control how they treat others.

I know you are just being honest and I do respect that. But sincerely if MOST men treated me differently because of the meat sack I exist in currently, I wouldn't want to interact with them at all. And as the mom of a couple of young men who are being raised to treat everyone well regardless of their gender, I am banking on men being less of a monolith than they are painted here.

[This message edited by strugglebus at 3:17 PM, June 28th (Thursday)]

8. GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

This is the guideline. How is this whole thread anything but a violation! Are the rules only applicable to certain groups.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 3:16 PM, June 28th (Thursday)]

Well hopefully the mods will delete it since it is in violation.

I've seen this posted in other forums or stated there. I don't think I phrased the question correctly. It was more to say, why don't WH post here, and is there a reason more WW are here.

Just a bull sh*t observation by me: I do not think that unremorseful individuals post upon this site very often.

Maybe so. I have learned so much, and I know what I read from the few WH that really dug deep, helped me. I would love to know their perspective more. I often wonder for WH, is it really just sex? I guess part of me doesn't want to believe that I was stupid enough to believe it wasn't.

Didn't mean to offend anyone, next time, I will work on my wording better.

I think the people that post here are the same. Otherwise, we wouldn't waste our time. Now, for those that come and go. Who knows. Personally, I have noticed more WW pine over their AP and it seems their affairs were more exit affairs. I have seen alot post about their husbands and marriages long after Dday wondering when their partner is going to change. As opposed to the men that have cake eater affairs and realize their APs were a dime a dozen. We always knew where the value lies and we never had any intentions of leaving our wives. Most will do anything to keep them. Most. Some post and never get to the actual doing. The men here do spill their guts. I think the men do bounce back sooner. From what I have seen the majority don't seem to be as emotionally attached to the AP. So, they aren't spending months missing the AP and trying to prove that they meant something to the AP like I notice women do. They don't seem to spend time deciding what they want. Though that may also mean that they may not be fixing themselves on the emotional level and just have another when the dust settles. I don't think remorse has anything to do with it. I have seen plenty woman come on with zero remorse and enough resentment to make remorse difficult because they have shitty husbands.

Numb&dumb is right I think. I came on looking for how to fix this. Not for a support structure. Big difference in how a person posts. I read more than I write. I read here for months before my first post and honestly it was only at the request of my wife.