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Friendships by definition are a closer “relationship” than acquaintances or people you just met. You care about friends. You share intimate (traditionally not sexual but not all intimacy is sexual) conversation and thoughts. Generally they are safe places and can help to bolster the marriage. In this case it was in direct competition with the marriage/ you husband over many years, regardless of your plans to leave or express sentiments of love.

You said you’d rather be annoying than divorced.

It *was* a relationship. You continuing to insist on using your definition (which is inaccurate) is not being annoying. It’s minimizing.

You could be divorced for minimizing.

[This message edited by 3yrsout at 1:17 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

Work on accepting his thoughts and feelings. You can't control them, and trying to do it won't make him hurt less. It will make him feel less supported and less respected than he already does.

As to whether or not it was a relationship, I think most would consider a 3-year affair between close friends to be one. I'm not sure why that would be confusing. Could it be you're confused over why you're having such a strong reaction to that term being used?

3yrsout, based on the differing ideas of what people have talked about and view as a relationship it has helped me understand his reasoning. I agree with it and now have the extra information behind it thanks to everyone who’s shared. When I talk to BH about it again later I’m going to apologize first if it seemed like I was minimizing. I viewed it as minimizing what real relationship love and caring means. I didn’t want to minimize how the lack of love makes it harder to process but rugsweeping has been a downfall as well before and it’s a thin line to walk. Being truthful but also showing the remorse of it is something I really need to work on. I could be divorced for a number of reasons so I’m only trying to make sure things don’t slip through, that I’m trying my absolute best to understand how to fix me. Please continue with the feed back, it really is very helpful.

You are compartmentalizing, which is very wayward behavior.

This is a justification. Relationship = good, affair = not relationship. How you define your affair doesn't cheapen your marriage, your actions did that.

I mean, it's like someone hacked your arm off and when you confronted them about hacking your arm off they respond "well, it was really more of a slice than a hack". Doesn't matter, arm on ground.

You are right in your last post. This is minimizing. You have explained here how you see an affair as different from a "relationship". Have you asked your husband how he sees it/why he sees it that way?

Im glad you'll be open to hearing your husband and the importance of his thoughts. I think I see the possible space where you disconnected so I'm taking a stab at the right words...

You are saying that if you were not married and the interaction with your AP were to stand alone, you (and many people) would not consider it a committed romantic relationship. You reserve that status for your BS.

Problem is...you did not commit to your BS either, so now all relationships are up for redefining.

Since your boundaries are dangerously elastic, it'll be helpful to take in what most people mean when they talk about friendship, comfort, companionship and sex...I'd also agree it was a relationship. A low maintenance, self serving, open relationship.

This road isn't going to be easy...I hope you can keep talking, listening and really hearing. Good luck.

Let it rain, yes! That is exactly it. Thank you for saying that better than I did. I’m not sure how to highlight things and repost or I would have.

Here’s my thought process for the idea of minimalizing

Saying it was love/relationship = makes it easier for my BH to deal with(his words)= me minimalizing and deciding what information he can/can’t handle= Lying = falling into old easier wayward habits

Posting on SI about not understanding BH POV = admitting my faults= trying to change the way I think= trying not to rugsweep.

What I’m trying to hear from others is that saying it wasn’t a relationship minimizes and is justification for the A no matter my stance on it. I should’ve reassured my H that I cared about his feelings and told him I needed more time to process what he was saying instead of arguing. That is so important so thank you all. Keep going if there’s things you think I’m still not getting. Thank you!!

Feeding emotional needs can be defined in many ways. It isn't just the "I love you" or emotional attachment like you describe with your husband when you first started dating. Like you want to define relationships now.

sex and companionship/comfort

companionship/comfort seem emotional to me. friends seem emotional to me. Honestly, I agree with many of the other posters. I think you are minimizing it, maybe to avoid the reality and guilt. The affair fed an emotional need, so therefor it was emotional and a relationship.

Affairs feed some emotional need or we wouldn't have them. Even if you just did it for the sex. Because he was more sexually out there than your husband, you knew he was a pig and still wanted it. What did him wanting you and having sex with him fill? Maybe an emotional need to be desired and wanted, regardless if he was a creep. Just think about what you did and why. I bet every single thing will come down to an emotion being filled.

Rogue, actions speak louder that words. Your actions

are not lessened by that the OM was doing 2 WW's at

same time.

Not saying "I love you" to the OM did not

lessen your actions.

Understandable trying to lessen your guilt to lessen

your pain. Though your logic cannot lessen the

impact of your actions with the OM.

Time to let the phrase sink in: own what you did.

Butforthegrace, you have a pm

Zug and old truck you are absolutely right. There is much more emotion to work through when it comes to the way I felt about AP DURING the affair. It’s easy to look back now and only talk about and remember the negative, it does minimize the hurt. I’ve scratched the surface in thinking about what I got from him emotionally when trying to get to the whys but when I’ve mentioned any of it to my H he’s been honest with me and said he’s not ready to go there yet. I respect that and I’ve backed off. When he’s ready I’ll dig deeper, for now I’ve just written the thoughts down then deleted them so I can keep trying to move forward too without pushing BH into overload.

It is not your BH place to “go into the emotions you had with your AP” - unless he wants to.

That’s for your IC. Are you seeing one?

I know it’s not his place to work through the emotions during the A , he has asked about it but isn’t ready to discuss it yet. I also have to be mindful of what he will read when he looks through my computer etc. as part of being transparent. I would really like to do IC but I have to be practical with what our family is capable of financially and time constraint wise. It isn’t covered by our insurance. I’ve looked into video type IC as well but just haven’t found the right fit or price honestly. Our 3 yr old is autistic and we have had a very hard time trying to find someone that’s okay watching him and our 1 yr old. He isn’t a bad kid by any means he’s just different and for some people it’s overwhelming. We do have MC scheduled I think for sometime this month or next month. My FIL has connections to a pastor who’s willing to see us for free, I’m hopeful but if he has the same message my FIL does(forgive WW to make it easier for her- yes he actually said this to my BH)dunno how helpful it will be. Worth a try. SI is my only outlet right now. BH is in a support group that he likes, I’m thankful he has atleast that.

Your point is he slept with others so it wasnt a relationship.....most aps sleep with other people...rarely are they exclusive only to the affair. And most waywards assume or consider they might be sleeping with other people and block it from their mind because that ruins thr illusion of the affair.

Secondly you say there was no plans or expectations to leave. Again esp where both waywards are in relationships there is pften no discussion of a future or the elephant in the room...it gets too messy. It takes the affair to a different level with more consequences and guilt. For alot of waywards they are simply cake eaters. So despite not wanting to leave for him doesnt lessen the affair or relationship within it.

Lastly you say no i love yous....however there wad intimacy and there was an enotional aspect and dependency as well as a fondness and closeness as he was a close friend. It may not have been a romantic love but it was an emotional bond and need being met outsidr your marriage.

So given it was a continuous emotional and physical dependency over a very long period of time and as I've pointed out it really is no different to most of the affairs out there. It was most definitely a relationship outside of your marriage.

I suspect you prefer to justify it as not being a relationship as thats what you have justified to yourself this entire time to help you live with it and accept less responsibility and guilt. Its a way of minimising the affair and its a wayward way of thinking of it.....step outside of your justifications and see it for what it was

Seems like you're projecting what would normally be a woman's concerns to a man. Yes, your husband is going to be upset if you told OM that you loved him but men are almost always most concerned about the actual sex.

You not only let another man have what belonged to your BH, you knowingly were willing to share this guy. You say you didn't love him but you not only risked getting pregnant, you also put your health at risk. what says obsession over a guy than your willingness to share him?

That it lasted 3 years could be you subconsciously keeping the door open for OM to come to his senses and want something more exclusive with you. Kind of a "I will wait for you" type of thinking.

I don't know how involved your "friendship" was but I imagine you expended a lot of emotional energy that should have went to your husband.

For 3 years there were probably many times that you were physically present with your husband, while your heart was with OM.

Our 3 yr old is autistic and we have had a very hard time trying to find someone that’s okay watching him and our 1 yr old.

Woah! Wait. What? You've been having a sexual affair that spanned the birth of your 2 kids?

Have you had a DNA test done to prove that the kids are indeed BH's

So now I have to ask, you gave all this time & emotional energy to an OM you were sharing while having a special needs 3 year old and an infant and you want your BH to believe this guy wasn't that special to you?

You definitely needs to dig deep in your IC. You may have not said I love you to OM but your actions say something else.

Smart, no that is not the case but I haven’t filled in the portion of my profile that shares my story so I can see how the timeline is blurry. My oldest was born in 2008 2yrs before I met AP, my 3 yr old was born late 2014. There was a chance that this was AP’s son. We did get a DNA test to confirm that he is my H biological son. Our youngest was born in 2017, over 3 yrs after the last time I saw AP.

Seems like you're projecting what would normally be a woman's concerns to a man. Yes, your husband is going to be upset if you told OM that you loved him but men are almost always most concerned about the actual sex.

^^This.

I did ask my WW if she said "I love you" (she did as did he). It was almost an afterthought, I asked as an offhand "I wonder" kind of thing, not something I really cared/needed to know. The details that mattered to me where "what actually happened". And yes, the sex was number 1, 2, 3 on that list, but some of the other "physical" things mattered to me a lot too. TXTing him sitting across from me, for example or taking his call over mine when traveling.

The "feelings" of the A are, to a great extent for me, in the "does not matter" category. Of course you loved who he portrayed himself to be, who wouldn't?? He lied about everything, promised the world, and was willing to die for you. Well, until d-day that is, when you became the person who destroyed his marriage and forced him into it. The "feels" made almost no difference to me because it was like falling in love with a character from a romance novel, an illusion, someone who never really existed.

The sex, that was real, that happened, and that's what mattered to me.

When he’s ready I’ll dig deeper, for now I’ve just written the thoughts down then deleted them so I can keep trying to move forward too without pushing BH into overload.

Sorry, just confused. You don't need him to dig into you. You are supposed to be doing that on your own and from here and what you have written it seems you have stopped where he stops. You don't have to include him or use him to "own it" or "get it". You just need to face yourself and your whys by yourself. With IC is best. If you are paying for the MC, it would most likely be best spent to go to IC instead IMO. Cheating isn't a marriage problem. It is a you problem. Your wants and your bad coping skills caused this. Not him or the marriage.

Writing has been the main way that I’ve found that’s helpful to start wrapping my head around all of it. It works for me. Writing about a topic that I know he’s going to read on my computer and has made it clear he’s not ready for feels like I’m setting him up to trigger and overload. Doesn’t mean I’m not going to do the work, just shift focus for a while. There’s plenty of other areas that I can discuss here openly. I’ll still try to journal to process and might ask him if I can have a seperate file to keep just this topic in for now. He would be able to check the date the file changes so hopefully he wouldn’t think I’m just trying to hide things? Either way it’s not a topic I’m going to dismiss forever. Should I push to work through it anyway regardless of knowing how it would affect him? I think I’m confused now too.