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Minnesota, why won't she make the effort?

How can she continue on so selfishly? I'm still thinking it was all in her mind and being excited by the sneaking rather than fantastic sex. Why should she act so smug when she's kicked your ego until you're bleeding. That's a horrible thing to do. For me, it's less the sex and more that she isn't horrified what she's done to your self esteem. Does she not bring it up because she's scared or is it that she isn't that concerned. You deserve more. Geez....

WornDown-

You said "If you have questions, maybe you should ask her? Again, people can not read minds, so expecting her to know what is in your mind is not realistic"

I totally disagree.

Only extremely stupid people ( people with no emotional intelligence ) don't think that BSs don't compare themselves to the AP. Any person with a brain would know this. Any person who reads anything about affairs knows this. She does not have to be a mind reader. She simply needs to have a brain.

I would like her to start the conversation on the sexual damage and sexual details because she could guide the conversation away from questions with injurous ananswers. Additionally it would show consideration and interest in me rather than herself.

As for chores.... you and I have different perspectives on our wives fucking other men while we are married to them.

I am not doing my wife's laundry after she fucked another man while she is married to me.

I am not taking her car to the gas station every week for gas, vacuuming and car wash after she fucks another man while she is married to me.

I am not cooking my wife dinner after she fucks another man while married to me. ( I used to do almost all the cooking )

I also locked down every last cent we have so she can't touch it. We own a large number of properties. I took every cent we had and put it all into properties so she would have to go through a zillion steps to get money out of me.

WornDown - I think you and I have very different understandings of the severity of adultery.

She is damn lucky I didn't throw all of her shit into the front lawn on Dday because she deserved it. The house is in my name alone so I could do that anytime I want.

I used my phone to type this so there are many errors.

[This message edited by MinnisotaManInWi at 12:12 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Without reading the other replies

Because its uncomfortable for them

Because they are immature

Because they are afraid to know what we are really thinking

Because they are selfish

Because they want to return to life as it was and pretend nothing happened.

MinnisotaManInWi

IMO your WW Will not rise any sexual conversation with you about OM Out of fear. Fear of you getting angry, fear to be the las straw. And also shame if sharing sexual details with other person that was not involved.

From your post I asume that your WW is not making any effort to fix you and the marriage. She is just waiting for you to get over it without adressing a thing. In a nutshell Shell rugsweap

Have you asked your WW what does she want? D, stay ...

She may be wrongly assuming that is not a big deal and before Christmas everything Will be back on track.

From others posts you wrote, I belive that she doesnt understand the possible outcome if what she has done.

IMO the rigth move would be to get her serve. This Will give her a reality check, as nothing gets WS into reality like cobsequences! If once serves she gets hervhead out of her ass and is bot too late (ir her A was a dealbreaker sinceramente the begining) you can try to R (try doesnt mean succed) . If she doenst get her head out of her ass you go ok with the D.

Good luck

Edited for typos

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 1:05 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Dude, you will NEVER get the whole truth from her about the sexual stuff. You may get 80% if you’re lucky. And they will never tell you whether their affair partner has a bigger penis and is better in bed. They’ll minimize this as much as possible.

All betrayed male spouses naturally want to know how they measure up. You are obsessed with this and need help from a psychotherapist. Even if she tells you the whole truth and tells you that you truly have a bigger dick and are a sex God compared to the asshole she had an affair with, you won’t believe her. You need to find peace with this otherwise you’ll screw yourself psychologically for the rest of your life.

If you can’t get over the sex stuff (in most cases it is not as raunchy and good as we imagined it really was) then you will forever be tormented. And most of this sex is guilt ridden and WW (in most cases) are so ashamed after they’re caught what may have been OK or great sex sessions with their affair partner they want to forget about it.

You need help from a health professional to get over this. You have posted about this issue many times on the SI forum and no matter what everyone responds with you’re never satisfied.

If this is what is bothering you so much you need to end the marriage. Even then it won’t end your pain unless you erase this obsession from your mind. You say you’re a great lover. Then keep making great love to your wife. So she can forget the bastard that came between you.

Focus on patching up your relationship and the great sex will return and so will your confidence.

[This message edited by Mene at 1:36 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Mene-

I did not say I am a great lover. I said I make my wife cum every time we have sex by giving oral. I have been giving her oral every time we have sex since we started dating 27 years ago.

I am obviously obsessed with the sexual damage from her affair. I am very insecure about my penis size since the affair and would guess her AP was larger just based on statistics.

Yes. I need IC and maybe a divorce.

[This message edited by MinnisotaManInWi at 1:52 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Seriously if you make your wife orgasm everytime you have sex the size of her AP's penis won't have made a blind bit of difference to her.

I am still in early days but I have an ability to see my husband's affair sex acts as they were: seedy, sordid and nasty. I'm sure some of it felt good during the act but they were all done in seedy places in a relationship built on lies and deceit. I know we have always had good sex together.. Do I think they had better? No I don't. Our sex life was built on 20 years of a good relationship, we know each other really well. Yes they had excitement, lust etc that you get with new sexual contacts but they certainly never had the love, trust or comfort we did.

If you make your wife orgasm everytime she probably would rate your sex life as good. Did she enjoy it with him - probably. Was it better than with you - probably not. Did his penis being bigger (if it even is) make him better - probably not.

Seriously if you need answers to questions YOU need to ask them. She needs to give you the answers you need. My husband has answered every question I have asked. Sometimes they are met with a look of despair and a check of "are you sure this will help you?" He is now in a place where he understands that I am someone who needs information to help me process and that I can cope with the answers. He sees that being honest and open with me is helping. But I had to be the one to ask, if he had volunteered every detail and I hadn't wanted to hear it, it could have caused a lot more damage.

At 4 months past DD2 (8months past DD1) my husband is now leading conversations. It is him that checks in how I am regularly, he can spot when I'm spiralling before I do and he will talk and ask what is wrong. He got to this point by my asking the questions in the starti and him understanding that to help me he has to be open and honest.

[This message edited by amethyst0323 at 2:16 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Amerhyst023

Thank you.

To answer your question, guilt, shame, and selfishness.

I am sorry for what you are going through. I hope you get past this and in time your perspective changes. I suggest you not give your growth and healing to your WW. She is a known liar and cheat. Until she does the work, all interactions and responses by her are wayard. I suggest you work on self healing. The best spot is to be fine with or without her.

It does not matter if your wife had sex with the biggest porn star ever that could control when he orgasmed and was the best sexual experience ever. Why? Because her cheating is not based upon reality. Therefore, you can create whatever situation you wished. Your wife is not the best. Why do you think you need to be. There is 7.5 billion people on the planet and each one will have a different opinion as to what is the best sexual experience and this will change over time.

Your own mind is killing you. You cannot take a mediocre propellant and blast the world's greatest rocket. From my experience, sex with a woman changes over time .... even within the same month because of hormones and tissue build up. In an affair the partners are taking. They are not giving. How many APs will give their life for someone they are whoring with? Now, where is the intangibles and intimacy in that. How is this the best sex ever. Once your wife figures out she was faceless and meant nothing, if earlier she told you it was the best sex ever her perspective would change. Once she figures out she has prostituted herself for whatever extra she was getting to someone that only thought of her as a fuck it will be a source of guilt and shame not memories of forbidden love.

Your real worry is will your wife be pinning for him all the time and saying BS just does not cut it. I will cheat again, emasculate him, and put him through hell once more. In order for you to avoid this scenario your focus should not be on sex, but is she doing the work to rebuild the marriage and be a safe spouse.

Women over my life have told me I was a great lover and then said I sucked during break up only to get back together later and then I am the greatest again. It is just emotional rubbish uttered to hook us. Look for something far more intimate. Being the best ever is shit you have created in your own mind because you have been traumatized by your wife's infidelity. It is from the dynamic that some guy will always stick his penis in a vagina to have an orgasm. Your wife had a vagina....nothing more. She is not the best ever. She is wayward. Her value to you is how you perceive her. She is pretty despicable in reality. Somehow you have allowed her to really screw you up. She is easily replaced.

You could always get a new partner and together learn how to have great sex together. If she does not cheat, then she is clearly your best ever.

She should be wondering after her cheating will my husband replace me because clearly I am not the best spouse ever is the real question in my opinion.

I bet if your 401K was not in play from your earlier posts you would kick her to the curb.

I am going to try and help you.

...I make my wife cum every time we have sex by giving oral.

To me you should be worrying about a silver tongued devil....not the biggest penis.

Now for a brutal but true fact, if you are screwing around with some old married woman that is cheating, you will not be caring about if you provide her the best sex ever. Most (80 to 99% IDNK) of APs are going to be banging her for their orgasm and what she gets is up to her and based on the shit she creates in her head.

You are going to get old and the dynamics of sex will change dramatically.

She is going to get old and things will look and feel very different.

Sexual performance will change overtime. Her best ever was with you when you were younger unless you are still in your prime. Then it is what is to come if you successfully reconcile and she truly gets it because it will be an act of love.

What you are feeling is temporary unless you allow her to make it permanent. Do not give her this power. She is not worth it.

You will disagree with this but I feel you will be better off healing yourself. She is still wayward and would just mess it up.

I hope you understand this someday. It takes a lot to get to this point. The acute pain of the betrayal has to be addressed first.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 5:05 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

I get your outrage. You're right, anyone with half a brain should know these things and know to address them and help you heal. I would think anyone would know that even if they lack the actual empathy to feel what they did. I have no answer that makes sense. I am still blown away by seeing how selfish and empathy-deprived my WH actually was. He had to be told things that are just so freakin' obvious that it blew my mind. It seems that I really didn't know him at all. I couldn't have comprehended that he was that deficient in basic human decency and common sense. I wonder sometimes if I was ever a real separate human being in his mind.

She probably really doesn't know the basic right things to do to help you heal. It isn't that it isn't her responsibility, it's that you're expecting her to behave like a normal person and she just doesn't possess the skills to do so.

It's a part of why this sucks. They broke it, but they typically lack the ability to do what it takes to glue it back together.

Thanks everyone- I got some awesome feedback on this theead

As a WW, I agree with everything Amethyst said. I also agree with this:

She probably really doesn't know the basic right things to do to help you heal. It isn't that it isn't her responsibility, it's that you're expecting her to behave like a normal person and she just doesn't possess the skills to do so.

It's a part of why this sucks. They broke it, but they typically lack the ability to do what it takes to glue it back together.

I didn't know what to do for a long time, everything I did seemed wrong. And, I am not saying "Poor me", I am just saying that coming off being selfish enough to sleep with someone else, I was not at all a great candidate for a wife much less someone able to help someone else to heal or to feel my love. I was really, really, emotionally stupid after DDAY. I didn't know which end was up. But, if she loves you she will figure it out and figure it out soon.

I did about all the different dumb things a WW can do. I love bombed for a while, and then realized this really has no meaning at all for my H. I already ruined any perception of love from me by my actions, all I was doing was aggravating him and pushing him away with all the flowery words and too many bids for affection.

Eventually, after failing many ways miserably, and staying wrapped up in my own shame and guilt, one day I finally just said "You know what I really do love this man, and we could possibly have the rest of our lives together. I need to figure out how to make this happen because that is what I want most in this world". And, that set intention, that clarity guided me. Being all-in. But the dumb and failing definitely went on for months.

The way that I finally was able to tune in to him and what he really needed was I started asking him questions. (Because literally I felt like I had no idea - it seemed like I had no way of fixing any of it and it was overwhelming and confusing - again - not playing poor me, but explaining what the experience was like). My H would not have communicated any of it on his own, and some of the things I brought up, he didn't even realize that were bothering him until I brought them up. He was clammed up, and really didn't want to talk to me about anything unless he was asking me more questions or we were fighting. I realized pretty soon that the reason was because he didn't want to be vulnerable to me by talking about how he felt. I credit this site for helping me with that and the many books I read. I read everything the BS's were saying here and I started using those things as guidance as a way of trying to find where his greatest pain was and showing him I understood it. If BH's were all saying X was bothering them, I would go home and ask about it. I would listen intently to what he had to say. When he told me things that were clues as to things I should do, I implemented them and consistently made them a habit. So, eventually I did figure out a lot.

I am still learning but you don't find the most emotionally intelligent people out cheating on their spouses. So, for what it's worth yes, we are that stupid.

But, also noone is a mind reader - it takes a lot of consistent effort in communication - and while you didn't break it, and I do think she has to lead the efforts, she can't fix it by herself either.

Also, understand the sexual devastation you feel - I didn't get that at all out of the gate. I don't want to start a whole generalization thing because everyone's different, but as a woman, if my husband cheated I have some idea that him feeling love or romantic feelings for her would be the part that would hurt me the most. Yes, the sex would hurt too, and I do think I would have some body comparisons happening. But, I think many men, the sex is the #1 thing that hurts the most (as evidenced by threads and threads about it on this site). There can be some misunderstanding between women and men on this. I have heard of WH's coming home and saying "yes I loved her, we didn't have sex" thinking that would be a better story because they know they would be devastated if their wife had sex with someone else so they assume their wife would feel the same way. And WW's saying "We had sex, but he meant nothing to me" thinking that's a more acceptable story. It's because they feel that would be more acceptable to them. I am not advocating "acceptable stories", people should just tell the truth - but it illustrates that not only are waywards emotionally stunted after DDAY, we are operating with different values and ideas, some possibly being gender based.

For example, I would never in a million years think my husband was worried about being "smaller" than the other guy. So, I don't know that assuming your wife would think that way is helpful for you. The reason it never dawned on me is because I couldn't have cared less about that - as I told you in another post for the most part they are all similar and within range of each other. BUT - I don't doubt it's a source of pain for you or for others here. I simply come at this with a woman's perspective - that it doesn't matter, and you come with a man's perspective. So it might not be that she has no empathy - though this early out that's likely a problem - but it might be that she doesn't think like a man.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:09 AM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Thanks everyone.

I agree with the consensus:

Waywards are extremely selfish, emotionally unintelligent people who have no idea what to do after Dday.

There should be a thread on this site titled "What Waywards should do immediately after Dday". I suppose the fact that this thread does not exist indicates their self-centeredness.

There should also be another thread explaining to Waywards the enormous pain they just caused their BS and the 2-5 year time frame for healing.

HikingOut made a great point about BS being vulnerable. I have zillions of emotions and thoughts rushing through me that I should share with my wife but I will not do it now because she is not at all empathetic. I would have to be insane to be vulnerable to her now.

[This message edited by MinnisotaManInWi at 12:30 PM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Just to point out there are some articles about this for Waywards in the healing library.

There is.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp

And of course the book How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is recommended every day on this site. I recommend it so often that my iPad fills in the title once I type the word How.

I would strongly recommend that you post a thread (just one! - it is insanely difficult to follow you, let alone help you, when topics/points are discussed in mulitple threads, across multiple forums), in JFO. Tell us your story. What happened? When? How long were you together? do you have kids?

How has your WW responded once the A was discovered? Is she unapologetic? or is she a mess, showing at least regret? Is she NC with AP?

You should also post a summary (or just copy the JFO intro) in your profile-that helps people understand where you are/coming from/dealing with.

From your join date of about 2 weeks ago, I'm assuming that you just discovered this A in the last month - that has a great impact on how you, and your WW, are able to respond to this trauma. If it was a year ago, that is an entirely different story. But without that critical information, it is very hard to give appropriate advice.

You have not told us any of these critical issues, yet you expect us to understand what is going on in your life/mind. As I've said numerous times, we don't read minds.

I think that you need a lot of guidance and help from the folks on this board and doing the above would be a good first step.

Additionally, I would suggest you start IC for yourself. You have a lot of feelings/emotions that you need to untangle and deal with - the IC can be of assistance in helping you process those emotions.

You should also consult an attorney to learn what divorce would look like in your case (every situation, jurisdiction is somewhat different). This isn't saying file for divorce, but gain knowledge.

Now, to reply to your post:

Only extremely stupid people ( people with no emotional intelligence ) don't think that BSs don't compare themselves to the AP. Any person with a brain would know this. Any person who reads anything about affairs knows this. She does not have to be a mind reader. She simply needs to have a brain.

I would like her to start the conversation on the sexual damage and sexual details because she could guide the conversation away from questions with injurous ananswers. Additionally it would show consideration and interest in me rather than herself.

Again, why do you think anyone else other than yourself knows what your needs are?

You want her to lead the conversation so he doesn't hurt you? This makes no sense - you are asking her to avoid the whole truth, or at least shade it. From your responses to date, it would not surprise me that in 6 months when you learn more details - that you are asking not to get - you will cry TRICKLE TRUTH!

Again, YOU know what questions YOU want to ask. So YOU need to ask those questions.

As for chores.... you and I have different perspectives on our wives fucking other men while we are married to them.

I am not doing my wife's laundry after she fucked another man while she is married to me.

I am not taking her car to the gas station every week for gas, vacuuming and car wash after she fucks another man while she is married to me.

I am not cooking my wife dinner after she fucks another man while married to me. ( I used to do almost all the cooking )

I also locked down every last cent we have so she can't touch it. We own a large number of properties. I took every cent we had and put it all into properties so she would have to go through a zillion steps to get money out of me.

I do like the idea that once one spouse commits adultery, the marriage for all intents and purposes, is dead. It is now up to you (both the WS and the BS) to decide if they want to R or D. If it is R, then you have to decide what your (new) marriage is going to look like moving forward.

But boy, you really need to re-evaluate your position. You are basically saying that you want your wife to be your slave from here on out.

Yes, she cheated on you. Yes, that is a horrible violation. Yes, you are hurting horribly and would like to give her some payback.

But it gives you NO RIGHT to treat her like a slave, and expect her to treat you as some kind of Lord for the rest of her days.

If you really want this to be the new conditions for your marriage, I would suggest to you (and STRONGLY suggest to your WW) that you just D and move on.

She is damn lucky I didn't throw all of her shit into the front lawn on Dday because she deserved it. The house is in my name alone so I could do that anytime I want.

You should consult with an attorney to determine how true this is. From your name, you live in WI - that is a community property state, which means that the general guidelines are such that if the marriage dissolves, the property is split 50/50. If she doesn't work, you are looking at alimony as well. If you think that you can leave her penniless, I think you may find that that is not the case.

WornDown - I think you and I have very different understandings of the severity of adultery.

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I read this.

You have been given a lot of advice on the various threads, yet you seem to ignore it and start a new thread to ask (basically) the same question. As I said, above, I think you would be greatly helped by having a coherent thread and telling your story. We're all here to help because we've all been through this.

So, since I'm assuming this was your first brush with infidelity, I can pretty much guarantee you that my understanding of the severity of adultery FAR surpasses your knowledge; you can see my story in my profile. And there are people on this board who surpass me.

So when you tell me (or anyone else on this board) I don't understand the severity of infidelity, all I can say is...

[This message edited by WornDown at 2:25 PM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

Unhinged:

MMinW,

Unhinged is right. We understand the severity of infidelity all too well. We also understand to varying degrees what is needed to heal from it. There’s no magic pill. If you know there is something your wife can do to make it a tiny bit better - then tell her. If she refuses - that tells you something. If she agrees - then you might end up feeling a tiny bit more healed.

When we say it’s a 2-5 year timeline to healing - we mean it. Some try to heal and reconcile. Having a remorseful spouse who is trying to meet your needs is a big part of healing while reconciling. Others try to heal and divorce. Those members either did not have a WS who was willing to meet their needs to heal or it was a dealbreaker. Yet they heal. Either way - you absolutely must take responsibility for your healing. Your WW can help or not.

Read the link I posted above and order the book I recommended. My WH helped heal me - he became a safe partner who answered my unending and repetitive questions for years. If he couldn’t do those things I’d still have healed - as a divorced XBW.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:10 PM, August 8th (Wednesday)]

You are right, my WH has never and would never initiate a conversation about what happened. I think because it’s uncomfortable, it’s painful, he’s ashamed but mostly he doesn’t want to hurt me any more than he already has and he wants to move on and focus on us. My WH is doing absolutely everything right, R could not be going better. If I initiate a conversation about it then he’s great, he says and does everything he can to help me heal and repair the damage that has been done.

The journey is different for everyone.

Its funny - so many WS’s worry about bringing up the affair. They figure we’re having a good day - why ruin it by making the BS think about it. But WE’RE ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT IT!!! It won’t always hurt as much but it’s always there playing in the background like Muzak in an elevator.

My H once asked how many times a day I thought of the affair. I told him just once a day. He said - “good! That’s not so bad!” And I said “Ya - I wake up in the morning - remember you betrAyed me...and then stop remembering when I fall back asleep at night. That’s pretty good!”

Hum.....the WS's (no matter what the excuse) obviously didn't give a fuck in the first place or they wouldn't have had an a. . Most of them are only sorry they got caught. With that said, why the hell would they care to initiate any discussion about the blow job they just got or gave?

And sassylee, I'm with you. I think about his frekin a everytime I walk out of the house or look out of the window as the slut still lives 2 houses down from us 14 years now post a.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 3:34 PM, August 8th (Wednesday)]