SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

William

Did she tell you why she did them with him but not with you ?

How long did her affair last ?

And I have to say, the thought of "if you have to ask then..." is naive. You have to communicate. Part of that is asking for what you want. And everything asked and communicated affects R or D. Including sex.

Yes. She was afraid to try with me because how I felt and saw her mattered. With the APs, she could say and do whatever without fear of judgement. I called bs but this was her truth.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 2:00 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

Just for the record I am not saying if you have to ask.

I am saying if you have to go to the lengths of “do it or get out” the war is already lost. My h has communicated theways in which he was hurt by me. He has made sexual requests. All I am saying is if you have to go stronger than that:

Your wife has no empathy for you

Is likely in the relationship for wrong reasons

She will be unable to help you heal

I believe fully if the ws loves and desires her husband, and if she can empathize with his pain she will from her heart want to lavish sexual desire and care upon you.

The minute you have to resort to punishments, revenge, ultimatums you should really question moving forward with the person. I am not saying don’t communicate, I am saying don’t resort to any mean necessary to get compliance. Under that scenario both of you are under more harm. That’s not rebuilding. I just see the powerful exchange of showing my love and empathy willingly to heal him can not be realized with this whole scenario of do it or get out. Tell me how you feel, let me know what you want, if I can’t be bothered to try and do anything for you then divorce me. If you have to hound someone to desire you what the hell is ghe point? It’s over.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:05 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

Sex is enjoyable for both genders but our bodies do not work the same way. If you REALLY want to understand, let your wife shove a barely lubed dildo up your ass after a couple knock down drag out fights, then call it an act of love and trust and pretend it’s good for your marriage.

Bc it's easy to have sex with your wife after she went bareback with her AP hundreds of times over the length of her A.

Poppy - you seem very focused on proving that there's no comparison between females "taking one for the team" and males doing the same.

If we're not in the mood, we can be still be stimulated. Just like if you're dry as a desert, if a man "goes down there and goes to town", you too will be stimulated.

WilliamM: On of my co-workers used to cheat on her husband. The reason she gave was the same as your WW: She wanted to have dirty, kinky sex but did not want her husband to see her that way because she cared about his opinion. Obviously a fucked up mindset—but your scenario is not unique.

[This message edited by PlanC at 1:59 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

The sad part is if she said "let's try this or that" I would have said, "Hell yeah"! It took almost two years just to not have mind movies of them doing stuff I wanted to do in the first place.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 1:59 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

If we're not in the mood, we can be still be stimulated. Just like if you're dry as a desert, if a man "goes down there and goes to town", you too will be stimulated.

I literally suggested this kind of act, and to remember to make it fun and enjoyable for both parties and the response was”I don’t care if it hurts”. So it seems like your beef is in part with the husbands on here that aren’t pulling their weight in the bedroom? The same way that earlier you said you didn’t agree with vicious name calling followed by sexual demands.

I’m not the one that keeps comparing physical pain to emotional pain. Because that is a completely useless moot point. Apples and oranges. It really doesn’t matter which is worse to me, as long as the dialogue includes that unwanted sex acts can be physically painful/damaging (and yes that pain is associated with being penetrated so we can throw gay men into this argument too if you’d like), which is a point that has been over looked in favor of focusing on men’s feelings.

I find it ironic to be having this particular conversation with you, a H that didn’t R, as a WW that never denied any sex it’s not like any minds are being changed her. Dead horse indeed.

Oops it was RIO that doesn’t engage in name calling before sexual ultimatums.

Not that it matter GoldenR but my H was not willing to go back to doing that until more recently. I just point it out as it’s not the climate probably a lot of us we experience after dday.

I find it ironic to be having this particular conversation with you, a H that didn’t R, as a WW that never denied any sex it’s not like any minds are being changed her. Dead horse indeed.

Nope...

An H that tried to R, but she cheated again and I never let her come home.

Hiking and Pink and other WS

Did it make you feel powerful to be desired and to have sex with two men during one time frame ?

I wonder if my wife enjoyed the power. It must be exciting to be desired by two people during one time.

Most likely my wife had sex with me on some of the days she had sex with him. That must be an incredible power trip.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 2:49 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

Sweet cream-

Post this in the I can relate forum and you will get responses from ww.

My short answer is no - I didn’t think in those terms. Also, I had three encounters while staying away from home, there were no instances when the two things crossed. I am sure it’s possible some waywards do think like that. Many of us however compatmentalize and don’t cross our two worlds that much mentally.

Do some WSs get off on making their BS into fools during the affair ? Do they get off on pulling one over on their BSs ? Do they get off on having their cake and eating it too? Maybe some WSs ( my wife ) enjoy making their BSs into emasculated fools by giving better sex/sex acts to their APs during the A.

I feel like the biggest fool in the world to act as my WWs's husband for two years while she had sex with another man. I was working for her, fixing the house for her, saving for her retirement, running errands for her sometimes, going to see her family on her schedule, organizing my schedule around her sometimes while she was having sex with another man.

I really don't want to know any more of the sexual details after reading this thread. If my wife was giving better sex or more adventurous sex to another man I could not take it. The sexual details are a killer for me. I thought I accepted enough of them but this thread made me change my mind.

I am a fool.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 3:15 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

This is my first post to this site. I have been viewing it for months but have not joined because forums are not really my thing, I have still found it helpful in my recovery.

This thread though would not leave my mind so here I am. These are only my thoughts as a BW so feel to take them or leave them. After an affair any BS deserves to have a spouse who is all in the marriage, sexually and emotionally. There should be full frank discussion between spouses to set expectations and I agree there would be huge red flags if any acts were off the table that were done with AP.

My problem and the reason this thread was initially triggering for me? There is no mention of the BH doing any of these sexual acts out of love (unrealistic after an affair I know), desire, lust or even just sexual need. No, what I'm getting ist's because of a need for power, anger and to control the situation. IMO this is going to trigger a lot of people who have been in sexual abuse situations, I honestly don't think it's got anything to do supporting WW but the power/anger/control undertones in this thread are bringing out fight or flight responses. Can I stress I am not suggesting in any way that any BH is sexually abusing their Ww, my apologies if that is what is coming across but the description/language used is almost purposefully inflammatory in a number of posts. I knew what I wanted to say but I think I lacked the ability to put the it into concise words.

My second problem with this issue is I wish BHs would shop minimizing the effects affair sex has on BWs. You have this multi page thread about it's importance for men and for women it has gotten likened to a trip to the opera or a meal and some flowers. You are all very vocal about reclaiming your wife's body after she had been with another man. Have you ever thought how difficult it is for BWs who have to accept their own betrayers into their bodies in order to have sex, and don't give me all that rubbish about sex not meaning as much to women. I can categorically tell you that it certainly does and you only need to read some of the threads about mind movies during/sex.

Sorry for the long rambling post.

Just wanted to add, in case it wasn't clear my sympathies are never with the Wayward. The exception should be on them giving their all whether they are BW or BH.

"I am saying if you have to go to the lengths of “do it or get out” the war is already lost."

this! Welcome Carissma. i liked your post.

Sweetcream it's a mindfuck isn't it?

Ugh, just realised my second post didn't make sense, meant to say expectations should be on WW & WH to be all in.

There is no mention of the BH doing any of these sexual acts out of love (unrealistic after an affair I know), desire, lust or even just sexual need. No, what I'm getting ist's because of a need for power, anger and to control the situation.

The only reason I ever wanted to do these things with my wife, both pre and post A has been about love/intimacy/sharing the experience together. I know we get off on tangents here, but the need for power/control doesn't even factor into the equation. If my need is for power, there's no greater way for me to exert that than "pack a bag". Anything less than that is tempering my need for control and power over the situation and providing her a choice and say in what happens in our relationship moving forward. Power simply, for me, does not factor in. Now, justice, yes, there's a certain element of that (which I think rubs some WW's the wrong way), but that's certainly not the primary motivator, it's 90% sexual desire (these are things I've always wanted with her).

My second problem with this issue is I wish BHs would shop minimizing the effects affair sex has on BWs. You have this multi page thread about it's importance for men and for women it has gotten likened to a trip to the opera or a meal and some flowers. You are all very vocal about reclaiming your wife's body after she had been with another man. Have you ever thought how difficult it is for BWs who have to accept their own betrayers into their bodies in order to have sex, and don't give me all that rubbish about sex not meaning as much to women. I can categorically tell you that it certainly does and you only need to read some of the threads about mind movies during/sex.

I'd give the same advice to a BW. If she wants kink after the A she should get it. If she wants to not have sex anymore, she should get that (at least for a significant period of time). I would never say sex doesn't mean as much to women, I would say, however, that it's typically not as important to women. Very few BH's tell their wives "no more sex" because to do so would be punishing themselves, lots of BW's do that, because they know their husbands care about sex more than they do. This is NOT universal, but it's common. I had sex with my WW on d-day.. Twice, I think. F**k that noise, no way I'm denying myself the pleasure of being with her just because I'm thinking about D (and killing the OM). And continued to have sex as often as possible after that. But that's me, I'm high drive, and frankly, I'd lived in the sex drought long enough, she was free to leave, but the "I have a headache" routine, used all the time during the A; that was over. And will be over for the remainder of our relationship. She showed me, in the most painful way possible, what she was capable of sexually during the A with a guy she "loved". I'm going to see that same thing from her because, honestly, the "her" she was during the A (sexually) was the "her" I always wanted to know (and she claimed did not exist).

[This message edited by Rideitout at 6:03 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]