SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

T/j regarding the 180.

Many passive aggressive individuals employ the silent treatment and withhold interaction as punishment in a form that is very similar to the 180. It is in such cases punishment or meant to inflict harm or pain.

Why do people who mock or otherwise don't want to participate in a discussion talk shit about those who do?

No opinions bother me, it's those who take the time to bitch about it taking place at all.

As another poster said, why not do away with JFO altogether and just have new BS look at old threads or some shit?

I don't think anyone is being COERCED into reading this or any other thread!

I think the A impeded R more. If you're trying to R, what I'm hearing is you don't even give your WW the option of fixing the sexual imbalance.

That's what I'm hearing too. If you ask about it, say it's required for R, it's coercion. If you don't ask about it and just nuke the marriage, I guess that's OK with everyone, but that means my marriage (and I suspect a lot of other's on here) would have been over as soon as the OM told me what they did together. I'm not sure I see the middle ground here, ask about it and then wait and see what happens? Isn't that just passive aggressive coercion?

The right answer, IMHO, is this. If an WS, male or female, did something with the AP that you think your spouse would like, do it with them. Immediately, without disclosing you did it, just do it. And then do more. Don't wait for anyone to ask, in fact, don't even wait for it to come up, just do it. And if you really don't want to, if it was some abusive situation with the OM/OW that forced you into doing something, sexual/financial/emotional or otherwise, just file for D, because.. It's over.

That's a sad discourse, but it's the only logical conclusion that I can draw. Asking for something when you know the WS is in a "power down" position is always going to reek of coercion. Moving to a new town, making them change jobs, making them write a timeline.. No WS wants to do that (or almost none), the entire R process, at least for me, was forced. And I think we all agree that's OK, I can threaten to nuke the marriage if she doesn't write a timeline, but can't do the same for sexual activities she engaged in with OM. OK, that's a reasonable stance, but realize what the outcome of that is; it's a preemptive marriage nuke. Because that's the area that I happen to care about from her A, I don't want her to take me to the hotels they went to, don't want the gifts, don't want the vapid talks.. No, I want the sex they had, and more, for us. Does that make me a sexual predator? Sometimes reading these threads, I think it might. But in my eyes, that's how my W shows me love, and I will not stand for 2nd place in the love she shows me compared to POS OM. And I'd NEVER encourage another BS to do so either, for whatever is important to them. That's a wound that will just fester forever, or, at least it would for me.

Crazy how these threads have gone further and further to favoring the WW.

Seems like originally everyone was like, "Don't abuse your WW!"

Then it became "Don't demand anything sexually from your WW!"

Next it was, "Don't coerce your WW!"

And now it's turned into, "Don't ask your WW for anything sexual that's she's not already giving you, even if she loved doing it with her AP".

And we can't even give them the option of fixing something that will make us D?

Jesus...in a couple months, I expect to be told that BHes aren't allowed to object to their WW's affair.

Jesus...in a couple months, I expect to be told that BHes aren't allowed to object to their WW's affair.

I've actually gotten this speech. Most recent version was yes it was bad but I need to get past it.

I liked the "lavish" idea. I'm thinking when I badly screwed up the marriage, I was full-on looking for ways to repair the damage. Wife wants me to write or text but I don't like doing that? Oh, well, I'm writing or texting daily at least! I'm looking at this from a "reconnection" idea. In the cases of sexual abuse as a punishment, no that is sickeningly wrong. But as others have said, this discussion isn't going to change anyones mind. (Still it's interesting to read how some of the POVs are presented.)

[This message edited by Icewraithonyx at 8:56 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

If a spouse cheats and does not want to do the same sex acts with their marital partner that they did with AP...

If???

"No" was told to H.

"Yes" was told to AP.

So 'insisting' does not create equality between marital sex and affair sex, and it won't rectify resulting self-esteem issues. The facts are on the table. Turns out that sex isn't going to solve the marital crisis; soul searching will be required, maybe on both sides.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:00 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

I think that most women have experienced sex they didn’t REALLY want at some point. Sometimes that means staring at a pile of laundry in the corner, thinking about your to do list waiting for it to be over, sometimes it can be flat out uncomfortable and can end with spotting because you just weren’t wet enough. Men cannot really “get” this, there’s not an equivalent. It’s nkt a universal experience for men to have sex without being hard just to get it over with, but the ladies here do get it, whether BW or WW. Physiologically we are just different. Accept it, move on.

A WW may have porn star sex with the AP without lube, but after months of self flagellation and her BH telling her she’s a fucking whore for those exact acts, she’s gonna be drier than the Sahara when presented with those same porn star moves. I know I know, the response is gonna be that she had to magically turn herself on 🙄 but yet again I will make the same suggestion I have in the past. If you want porn star sex, you’ve gotta be the male costar! It’s not expensive gifts or the fucking opera analogy. Women cannot magically make themselves wet or relax their anal muscles.You want the hot sex? Exchange dirty texts all day. Do that thing she likes (you are her husband you know what it is, I don’t, but every woman has “that thing”). Have fun! You will get what you want if it’s something you SHARE vs. payment that you are owed and it’s time to pay up.

I disagree with the idea that men have not had sex just to get it over with. I have done this before. It was not intimate nor enjoyable other than the orgasm. I was glad when it was over. Sometimes sex was out of obligation or just to have release from built up sexual tension.

Post orgasm I even have watched TV.

Women are not the only ones that experience this phenomenon.

We men do not communicate it.

Sex with my WW would be like this if I chose to perform the act. I an not even sure I could. I guess it is part of the consequences of infidelity

A WW may have porn star sex with the AP without lube, but after months of self flagellation and her BH telling her she’s a fucking whore for those exact acts

But it's not the acts themselves that make her a whore, it's who she did them with.

Nice try, Poppy, but I’ve performed untold sex on demand over the years. That’s just part of the marital job description. And it is a bit harder to do so as a guy—but I always managed to do so without fail.

Poppy704, I am not evil (no matter how the Lady's here feel) I would gladly supply my WW with a bottle of K Y's best.

Nice try, Poppy, but I’ve performed untold sex on demand over the years.

As have I. In fact, since d-day, most of the sex I've had with my WW has been "on-demand". But unless something is really wrong, I'll never deny it to her, starting down that slope is many steps in the direction of the attorney's office. She gets upset, I stop bonding with her, we both miss out on the pleasure.. So I try to screw my head on and get into it, even though, if left to myself, I wouldn't be doing it at that time or would rather just masturbate before bed. But, as I think someone said, this is the job description, and this is what I see as essential to keeping our marriage healthy, so I do it. And it's not every time, sometimes I really look forward to it, but since d-day, it's changed. It's more like the gym; sometimes I'm totally into it and can't wait to go, other times I drag myself there and would rather be doing something else; but I'm always glad I did it when it's over.

A WW may have porn star sex with the AP without lube, but after months of self flagellation and her BH telling her she’s a fucking whore for those exact acts, she’s gonna be drier than the Sahara when presented with those same porn star moves.

A BH telling her "she's a fucking whore" for months is NOT OK in my book. Yes, she was and did act like a whore. But that does not mean that verbal abuse like that is OK, and I just want to be clear, at least for myself, I never did that with my WW.

And actually, there's talk about women "can't get wet" or "relax their anal muscles", when, in fact, they can do both. Lubricants and there are toys designed to do exactly that. The thing that "can't" happen is a guy making himself get hard, at least not without a prescription medicine injected into their penis. I'm not saying that is any better or worse, but to say that guys don't have some serious pressure on them when trying to perform when they don't want to isn't the reality for me. Keeping a hard on when all you can think about it how horny your wife was for the OM, well, can be quite the exercise in mental gymnastics.

Ripped: The fact that you mentioned orgasming from maintenance sex you didn’t want means you REALLY don’t get it.

PlanC: Yup, all of us have maintenance sex sometimes in a marriage. Go back and read the sentence about it hurting for women who aren’t turned on. I’d really like to hear from the man on this site who has a sore penis for days because his wife wanted sex and he didn’t.

RIO: I’m glad you don’t speak that way to your wife, but ALOT of BH do in the early stages, which is also when they’re expecting her to have the same sex she gave AP. I know you’ve read all the same posts I have about angry outbursts to BS.

Now, the physical details, you can hose a woman down in lube, and yes she’ll be SLIPPERY but that’s not the same as being turned on. You can shove things up her ass to make the muscles relaxed, but that’s not the same as her relaxing them because she actually wants it. Again, OUR BODIES ARE DIFFERENT. As a woman I do not understand the feeling of trying to keep a boner, I just can’t. It sounds awful to experience that though and I’m sorry for the men here dealing with that. But I think that the men here need to try to wrap their heads around the idea of being PENETRATED. Sex is enjoyable for both genders but our bodies do not work the same way. If you REALLY want to understand, let your wife shove a barely lubed dildo up your ass after a couple knock down drag out fights, then call it an act of love and trust and pretend it’s good for your marriage.

Poppy704, I never said it would be an act of love. I said it had to be done before there could be any attempt at R. Now I HAVE to treat the sex we have as an act of love right after I found out she gave this shit to the F'ing AP?? Am I supposed to act like the affair was "an act of LOVE"??? Am I supposed to accept that she really wanted him but I'm NOT WORTH the effort???

This is simply taking back WHAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO SOMEBODY ELSE!!! It is re-establishing "MY space"!!! This is just the FIRST of many challenges that are going to come from the destruction YOU BROUGHT into the marriage!! The very fact that YOU will even attempt to try to control the R means YOU don't get the opportunity to even try to stay married.

I mean doesn't nearly every BS post talk about what ACTIONS a WS can do to save their marriage. THIS is the 1st and most OBVIOUS thing you can do and yet YOU say I can't even ask (establishing demands for reconciliation) for your participation in this requirement for attempting to rebuild?? How does this work??

The MAIN purpose of this is to establish if it is even worth it to attempt to R. If she is NOT willing to give ME her ALL then why would I even consider trying to R. It is just the first test BUT an extremely critical one!! This very quickly establishes whether or not she is "All In" or NOT!!

ItsNotMe As for the suggestion that I try to "rebuild trust" and that she needs to "feel safe" and that I need to spend all that time on an F'ing MAYBE??? Now maybe you can tell me why that would be a good idea??? I have to re-establish "trust" Bull S@#$!!! SHE HAS to be the one to re-establish trust!!! She was married to me and cheated and did all those things that were "off limits" during the marriage with the POS and I have to continue to beg for scraps??? NOT happening!!

Now to all the Lady's out there that object to this Idea. I have never, until this nuclear bomb SHE set off, ever demanded ANYTHING sexual in any of my relationships BUT on this no backing down!!! There are a lot of "no's" in this post.

No I don't care why you don't want to do this with me!

No I don't care if it hurts.

No it doesn't matter that "IT brings back memories of the affair and makes her feel dirty"! (guess what she feels DIRTY to me now too so I guess in this we are equal but I bet that I hurt worse than she does!

No I am NOT going to be the one that does all the work!!

No your tears are LIES because YOU DID THIS! If YOU really want ME then it should be a no DUH!!

So after YOU stabbed me in the heart, then emotionally gutted me I am supposed to BEG AGAIN?? NO just NO!!

And I'm supposed to Kiss Her A$$ to reconcile??

NO, just NO!

JMO YMMV

Candyman:

“I don’t care if it hurts”.

It sounds like the A was a dealbreaker for you, and you are not a candidate for R. Best of luck to you, and to your wife, moving forwards and healing yourselves separately.

[This message edited by Poppy704 at 8:47 AM, September 29th (Saturday)]

I suggest you sit down and have some conversations with men who were faced with infertility in their marriages, Poppy. Just maybe it’ll open your mind to the pyschogical warfare men find themselves in to not only participate in ‘on-demand’ sex but also be expected to finish with an orgasm. No staring at the pile of laundry, hoping it’s over, nope it’s time to preform, better bring your A game or your an asshole who doesn’t care and doesn’t want this as bad as your wife.

Imagine that, having to comply with ‘on-demand’ sex, multiple times a one week span every month and be expected to ejaculate every single time. But as I’ve heard you say in the past, orgasms are like pizza...I guess you’ve never been forced to eat some shitty pizza, repeatedly, for years. It’s boner inspiring stuff...

Don’t get me wrong, ‘on-demand’ sex is bullshit and will completely destroy any sexual chemistry in a marriage. I’m not condoning it or supporting it. I’m simply pointing out that men do ‘get’ it. Sure our bodies are different, but this ridiculous notion that being penetrated creates some special superior experience over male sexuality is simply untrue and ignorant.

Loukas: Pyschological Pain vs. Physical Pain is Apples vs. Oranges. A uninspired half boner making you depressed is not the same as having something shoved inside an orifice that you don’t really want there.

RIO - you articulate thoughts like a boss and your opinions seem balanced and reasonable.

Yes of course it is possible for men to participate in bland maintenance encounters. Add in a seemingly disinterested WS partner and that is much different than when you can sense true interest. Once again, especially from a WS.

Of course with the various excitement building factors involved in an A, the worst an AP got was a partner far more interested in the act than the maintenance at home. It is a massive understatement to say that knowing this is not really conducive to enjoying the act.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 8:58 AM, September 29th (Saturday)]

Like I said, ignorant. And this is clearly why you don’t comprehend what I just shared. Imagine what you don’t want there being there, and then expected to orgasm.

This will blow your mind. Sometimes, that thing doing the penetrating, doesn’t want to be there!

Imagine what you don’t want there being there, and then expected to orgasm.

This actually made me snort. Women routinely fake orgasms because they are expected to enjoy shitty sex that they don’t want, because not only are we not supposed to deny men, we aren’t supposed to emasculate them by not getting off from shitty unwanted sex.

I don’t have to imagine it. Been there, done that. And again, women get the added bonus of being sore the next day. Thanks Mother Nature! It has nothing to do with “superiority over male sexuality”. IT FUCKING HURTS. It doesn’t hurt women’s delicate feelings, it doesn’t make us sad, it burns and bleeds and bruises. So which one of us is ignorant? The one that has winced and cried when using the bathroom? I don’t think so.

[This message edited by Poppy704 at 9:24 AM, September 29th (Saturday)]