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My DDay was almost 5 years ago but I still feel like I have ptsd. My husband and I are reconciling and for the most part it is going well. He is patient when I feel triggered and apologizes often, which I feel is genuine.

My problem is that the AP was one of my best friends and I haven’t been able to heal from that betrayal since I can’t tell her how I feel or hear any genuine words of regret, and I probably never will as she’s a bit of a psychopath. Her last emails to him post d day were all about how hurt SHE was, even though she pursued him (and a friendship with me to get closer to him), knowing she had the hots for him. She had zero sense of boundaries. I don’t absolve my husband of any wrong-doing, but at least he admits to his part in it, and has done a lot of therapy, IC and MC, in the meantime, and has changed a lot. I would say he has too many feelings of guilt towards her, although that has improved. She was a master manipulator and he fell for her guilt trips easily. He doesn’t have strong feelings of guilt now as he doesn’t think of her much at all, he says, except when I bring it up.

I’ve lurked on this site for a long time but have never posted. What’s currently triggering me is that I’ve started a new friendship in the last year with someone who is also acquainted with the AP. She knows about the A, from the AP, but not a lot of the details. Until I filled her in on some of it recently anyway.

I’m feeling triggered for a number of reasons. The two women are a lot alike in some ways, so that’s part of it. I was attracted to being friends with the AP after all. An important difference is that I feel my new friend, I’ll call G, seems like a genuinely honest person, and has clearly stated her disapproval of As, and doesn’t think married people should be friends with the opposite sex. She feels that both my husband and the AP made a huge mistake but one that anybody is capable of making, given the right circumstances. Given that I’m reconciling with my husband, I see her point and can understand intellectually why she thinks that, especially as she didn’t live what I have lived, nor read the emails, but emotionally I find it very difficult.

I think I’m feeling the fact that she and the AP are friends - although not as close as G and I have become - is triggering because there is now this indirect connection between me and the AP. Her name has come up from time to time. Part of me wants to know what’s going on but I’ve also told G that I’d prefer not to talk about her. Once G said some very positive things about the AP and I felt like I was punched in the gut. But even though we don’t talk about her anymore, I still feel anxious about this new friendship and wonder how to get over this ptsd so I can enjoy G’s company without feeling triggered.

I know I don’t have the right to ask G not to be friends with the AP, but I also worry that they may end up growing closer someday and then what? I don’t want to end my friendship with G. That doesn’t seem like the right thing either, and that would just mean the AP had power over me still.

Any words of wisdom out there?

You DO have the right to end this friendship with G simply because she’s friends with the AP.

I’d question her ability to even be a good friend if she knows about the A and is still friends with her.

Intentionally avoiding triggers is taking care of yourself, not giving power to the affair or the AP

[This message edited by sewardak at 10:02 AM, November 30th (Friday)]

Hello, I hope I can at least commiserate in some way as I am in a "similar" situation. The AP in my case is good friends with my sister-in-law (SIL) SIL has remained friends with AP even after knowing about her friend having sex with her brother married brother (my husband) I cannot, nor would not ever tell SIL who to be friends with. However, I did write her a very heartfelt letter stating why it was traumatizing for me. SIL has still not talked to me about the letter (its been 110 days but I digress) but when she does feel like having this conversation, I will let her know I cannot be around anyone who associates with the AP. My plan is to tell her I may feel this way for months, years, or forever. My main goal is to heal my marriage & I can't do that with AP lingering in the background in any manner. Hope that helps a little. Hugs.

Sewardak

Intentionally avoiding triggers is taking care of yourself, not giving power to the affair or the AP

This is really helpful. I added that to my talking notes should my SIL ever decide to talk to me about this. I will be sure to use it with my WH as well when he says I can't let it go.

I lost friends and relationships with family members that cheat or enabled cheating.

G does not understand the depth of your pain. She also cannot comprehend the trauma and destruction the deplorable actions of the AP and your husband have caused. She also likely does not understand how long and difficult the path of reconciliation is.

Perhaps she is not an individual you need to keep as a friend if you face significant triggers when with her.

If you remain in a relationship with G you need to establish hard boundaries so that triggers and emotional flooding do not occur.

Thanks for the commiseration and advice. To clarify, G and AP are only very casual friends at this point, sons are friends and have play dates occasionally, and the AP has moved to a new community so even that contact may fizzle out.

It seems like overkill in this case to end the friendship with G, which is not 100% triggering. I mean we have lots of times of fun where I’m not thinking about the AP. She’s a breath of fresh air in my life and I feel less isolated having a new friend. There can be healing in exposing yourself to tolerable amounts of discomfort according to my IC and MC. I think this may be tolerable but not sure yet! It is definitely an option to back away from the friendship though, and I will keep that in mind.

I think one way for me to manage this may be to make a hard rule not to talk about the A much, but it has been tempting for me to be able to get my side of the story out there, and not the version where the AP was the victim. And to know what she has been saying, which thankfully is not much, at least to her casual acquaintances.

I should have said a hard rule not to talk about the A at ALL, but I see now that this is perhaps my problem. I want to talk about the A with someone connected to the AP without feeling triggered and obviously that is self-defeating. Maybe I secretly hope that my version will get back to the AP, but I shouldn’t care one bit what she hears or thinks or feels. I doubt it will ever be remorse. G thinks the AP does feel remorse because she has moved away, and therefore must understand the gravity of what she has done. I’m skeptical.

But any other red flags or concerns with being friends with G?

Any people out there who think a friendship can be maintained if I never talk about A further? What other boundaries would be helpful?

One thing I discussed with my IC is to ask G to let me know if she and the AP do be one closer, as then I think I would have to end it with G. I think that’s one of the things I find so stressful, ie knowing that that is a possibility and then I would lose another friend.

[This message edited by Piratequeen at 10:34 AM, November 30th (Friday)]

Personally I could not be friends with somebody who's friend with the AP (or a OW)- just because of the association. Obviously you can't tell her who she can be friends with, but you can also decide what standard you want your friends to have, and somebody hanging with homewrecker might not be the friend for you.

I worked at a preschool a while ago. After I left, a good friend of mine (who still worked there) told me that a teacher had an affair with a dad. Anyway, one day I saw her at an event (she got fired, btw), and sure, I could have pretended not to know anything, she was my son's teacher at one point, affairs happen bla bla bla and just said hi. Well, I'd rather cut my arm off than saying hello to an OW and get my son to make polite talk. And this was even before the x-h had his affair. So I just ignored her.

Regarding the new friend. Yes she might be nice. Just make sure that her action backs what she tells you. Ie no back stabbing, no gossip starting, etc. In the other side she knows the AP had an affair with your husband, and praises her to you? I would watch my back with her. The alternative is dropping her from your life. You don't need this crap.

Good point re the praise. It really hurt and I haven’t told her that yet.

I think the context for her comment was that she wasn’t sure how to handle being friends with both of us, but it was definitely the wrong thing to say and I need to call her on it. Especially if they aren’t that close, as she says.

My wife's affair was with my best friend (from high school!), so I feel your uneasiness. Our families' lives, at the time of the A, were enormously (probably unhealthily) meshed: watching one another's kids, outings together, all-day football Sundays, etc. So when the betrayal really kicked in, it was like suddenly finding myself completely alone in a world where I was the only one who didn't know what was going on.

What worked for me to alleviate some of the new or growing friendship anxiety was putting firm boundaries between my home life and my "friend" life. I went through a stretch of time where I cut myself off from male friendships completely because I didn't feel like I could trust anyone, and that just honestly didn't work for me. I needed the support/friendship/intimacy of people who weren't my wife, but there was no way I was letting another guy into my house -- especially not one who would eventually get comfortable enough to come and hang out whether I was there or not.

So, it's been 12+ years for us, and I still keep my male friendships in a different bucket than my marriage. We'll meet for coffee or lunch or whatever, but entertaining them at my house is rare (like less than once a year). Invitations to get together also don't include my wife, for the most part. I don't want her cozy with my friends, and I don't want them cozy with her. She can get her own damned friends if she wants some.

Note, however, that this works for me because I'm not generally very social by nature. I don't really value hanging out with other people's families over big meals and activities and generally just enjoying having or being company. So if you have a need for deep and regular friendly companionship, maintaining barriers between these parts of your social life might be onerous.

Part of this, you understand, is that I also keep my peeps separate because the affair meant that things I thought were kept in confidence by my friend were relayed back to my wife for whatever advantage he might gain, and things I thought were "family" business -- or even *my* business confided to my wife -- were shared with the OM. That won't ever happen again. People I confide in rarely know my wife as anything other than a first name and whatever I've told them about her, and what she generally knows about them is a first name and a vague sense of how we met.

Is it possible you want her to agree that the AP is awful. Validation of your feelings of betrayal would make sense.

I think this is a case where you need to look at the cost of doing friendship. I explained to my DD when you have friends sometimes the cost of doing business is to much. She had someone who made passive aggressive comments about my DD s appearance. She ultimately decided the cost to her self esteem was to much.

If G s presence in your life brings the affair into your mind is that to much?

I can definitely relate as the AP in my case was also a close friend and we shared the same social circle. She and my H started their A after finding out that AP and her husband would be moving in a few months for a new job. Point being that she’s no longer here now and the A blew up a week before they moved away. As you can guess, almost all of our mutual friends eventually found out and there is one woman who has remainded close with the AP. The way i see it is that everyone is entitled to have friends (AP included) but if you are friends with her then you’re no friend of mine. Of course this is different in my case since we were all friends before the A. But that’s my line in the sand. I don’t spend any time with the mutual friend anymore as I don’t want to be reminded of the AP.

There’s also another woman, I’ll call her L, who definitely doesn’t not know about the A. She has remained friends with the AP and shortly after DDay put us on a text thread together. I told her in o uncertain terms that i had zero desire to keep I touch w AP at any level and to please not involve me in anything having to do with her. She did ask me point blank what happened but i put the onus on the AP. I told L it was the APs doing and she could ask her if she wanted to know. I have absolutely distanced myself from L bc I just don’t want anything to do with AP.

Pirate queen:

Something you mentioned that set off red flags concerning G. You said she felt: both your WH and OW made a huge mistake, but one that anyone is capable of making given the right circumstances. No, No, No!

Cheating is never just a “mistake”. It is a conscious decision. Period. And no circumstances ever justify cheating. Period. That is just wrong thinking, but typical crap you get from people who never think about it. Yes, anyone is capable of cheating. Yes, it happens, and quite frankly, will always happen in some M. I agree. But only because the WS and OM/OW deliberately violate their M vows, their own conscience and values. It’s not a mistake and there are no “right” circumstances to cheat.

Perhaps this should be pointed out to G. Just sayin.

Double betrayal is hugely traumatic. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

You seem torn about your friend G. I can understand why. You like G. She is someone you feel you can talk to, nice person, breath of fresh air, etc. But your gut seems to be telling you something, and also there is this...

I want to talk about the A with someone connected to the AP without feeling triggered and obviously that is self-defeating. Maybe I secretly hope that my version will get back to the AP, but I shouldn’t care one bit what she hears or thinks or feels. I doubt it will ever be remorse. G thinks the AP does feel remorse because she has moved away, and therefore must understand the gravity of what she has done. I’m skeptical.

These are good insights. I think it helps to examine your deeper motives for staying friends with G. On one hand you may want to get info about AP and get your story out there, which is understandable. On the other, you are feeling triggered by the friendship between G and AP since that puts you indirectly in AP's circle. Look carefully into all of this. What does your gut say?

I would feel triggered, too, and personally I would not put myself in this position. If I stayed in the friendship, I might distance myself from G somewhat, not talk about the A or AP at all, and be very careful with what I confide.

I think you are right to be skeptical. AP may never feel true remorse, and moving away does not really show remorse at all. It may not be helpful to speculate about AP since you will likely never know what she really thinks or feels. You said earlier that AP is a bit of a psychopath. Best to cut AP out of your life completely. Write that homewrecker off! She does not deserve your attention, and attention of any sort (good or bad) for her kind will just give her a feeling of power. Keep your power for you, and use it to make your life great in ways that are healthy for you.

G seems understanding, but since she is still friends/acquaintances with AP and has good things to say about her, I would tread very carefully. Remember that psychopath/narcissist/sociopath type personalities (referring to AP here) are very good at manipulating others, as you know, and that includes triangulation. Please be on guard.

Above all trust yourself and your GUT feelings which do not lie.

[This message edited by burninghouse at 12:02 PM, November 30th (Friday)]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I think I misquoted G: she didn’t say an A was ever justified or a reasonable choice. She just sees both my husband and the AP as equally deserving of redemption. I am reconciling with my husband after all, and he made the same terrible choices. She did say that before she knew some of the details she now knows, however.

In any case, I think what I need to have is a more frank conversation and find out how close is not close, because I think there’s a difference between occasionally socializing with people on your son’s hockey team, and becoming best friends. If I cut out everyone in the former category, that seems incredibly limiting, but obviously I could never be friends with someone even approaching the latter. I don’t know where that line is for me, nor do I know how close they really are.

I know for some of you any association at all is too much, but I don’t think it is for me. Maybe because things are going well with my husband and it has been almost 5 years. Or maybe I have my head in the sand!

She feels that both my husband and the AP made a huge mistake but one that anybody is capable of making, given the right circumstances. Given that I’m reconciling with my husband, I see her point and can understand intellectually why she thinks that, especially as she didn’t live what I have lived, nor read the emails, but emotionally I find it very difficult.

Like fareast said, CHEATING is NOT a Mistake, your WH and AP CHOSE to CHEAT, they made hundreds of daily decisions to hide their A and meet, so don't give her a pass on this and make sure she KNOWS infidelity is NOT a MISTAKE but a BAD CHOICE instead.

Please give up that friendship. You need to look at it as if the AP shot you and your new friend carries a loaded and cocked pistol all the time. You are always going to be jumpy and nervous. True friendship gives you support, not anxiety

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 1:09 PM, November 30th (Friday)]

She is not really a friend of your marriage, is she? Think about it. She is letting the AP, either intentionally or unintentionally, have a window into your life.

Don't do this to yourself. You are here posting because how much this bugs you. You do not have be friends with her, and it does not matter if she understands or not.

Really, your sanity or this friendship...????

Yeah... I agree with everyone that says the friendship with G has to go. Period. I know you’re happy to have found a new friend, but the cost of her friendship ( thanks for the new phrase PricklePatch) is WAY TOO high. Also, (and maybe it’s just my skeptism showing) I would question her motives for befriending you in the first place ESPECIALLY since she was close enough to OW to be told about it. And cheating is NOT a mistake. Your WH & OW made hundreds/thousands of choices to lie, hurt & betray when starting & participating in the A.

I know for some of you any association at all is too much, but I don’t think it is for me.

Apparently, it IS too much for you because it bothered you enough to the point you’re searching for “words of wisdom” from others. Don’t be so deseperate for a friendship that you drown out your gut feelings & subconscious red flags. They have play dates together and OW told her about a situation that she SHOULD feel embarrassment & shame about.... that’s enough to see that they are “close”. IMO. Unless, your OW is the shameless type & the affair with your husband is something she tells everyone she knows/meets about? If not, it should be obvious to you that there is a close connection between them.