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RC,

I get the impression, perhaps wrong that your WWs workplace is a breeding ground for affair or is tolerant of them.

If the OM is still contacting your WW you could have her file a complaint to get OM fired. There is also the possibility of filing a lawsuit against the company.

A common theme here is that your WW sill do "anything" except she wants to preserve her reputation and still wants to protect the OM.

I suspect everyone at the company knows.

[This message edited by survrus at 5:03 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)]

People are trying to help you on SI. You take the comments and ideas that make sense to you. We share what we know from our own experience to help others, some times the comments are tough, so what? Take what works for you. Ignore the ones you don't like.

The behaviour on this site 99% respectful, caring and well intentioned. This is not where you will find standard internet comments - those are brutal. I am grateful for the kindness and support here - it helps because I don't know where else I can get this type of support anonymously.

There is no magic bullet to feeling better after an A, there are no short cuts to healing, and in the end, you have to fix yourselves. Both of you. And it takes time. Frankly it is a shit journey that hurts like a son of a bitch.

We've all been through it.

I really hope you can find what you need to heal.

Who is this magical person who somehow filed a report that can no longer be printed out? And if that can’t be produced why can’t your wife submit a 2nd report. One would think that the workplace would appreciate the second report as evidence of a pattern.

If she doesn’t get this for you then she is lying. Period.

She doesn't really have any consequences. Really I was hoping (I know I say this a lot now) that she would just be motivated enough to help me recover, heal, and give me some sense of security. The only real consequence I would fathom would be a separation or divorce.

And really I wanted her to choose me over her friendship, who that person knowingly sabotaged our relationship at the time. WW has both an EA and PA with OM1 where she wasn't sure who she would have stayed with. OM2 was apparently mostly an NSA PA according to WW and she never wanted a life outside of what they were doing apparently.

I do wonder is it so unreasonable to request that this enemy of the relationship needs to go? This occurred 15 years ago. I still think about it every time I see this person. I do not socialize with her. Only my WW does. He has not contributed anything positive or negative to our relationship at this point, short of the initial harboring and introducing the WW to OM1.

If she has not had any consequences then she can continue to just ignore you in an effort you eventually cave and decide to rugsweep the whole thing, if you're not fine with her not changing, not giving up "Enemy of the M" and simply not doing much of the basics to R successfully then of course the logical next step is to file for D (consequence), if she does not want that consequence to become real then she will bend over backwards to reverse your decision and get rid of the "enemies of the M", and yes it's very reasonable for you to request she gets rid of those "enemies", I don't speak for the entire SI community but after thousands of stories here I haven't come across one where people who enabled/encouraged the A were ok to remain friends with the WS, so stop "wondering". Let me put it this way, regardless of infidelity if I tell my FWW that I'm uncomfortable with any friendship, male or female, she needs to drop the friendship immediately, no questions asked and viceversa, there's no friendship on this earth that I will put above my family, none.

Again, filing for D is the beginning of a journey, it takes a long time and can be stopped before it's final, however if she doesn't want to do the work and have consequences because of her huge betrayal to make you feel safe in the M, you should just let D run its course and get out of infidelity.

RC, still your posts focus on finding some magic pill, some grand gesture, that will fix your pain and make it go away. No such pill exists. No gesture can do this. You're barking up the wrong tree.

The only path to R is years of cathartic, gut-wrenching hard work, starting with a WS who is 100% brutally honest and committed 24/7/365 to your healing. The deeper and more profound the injury, the longer and harder the process will be.

In your case, virtually your entire marriage has been based on lies your WW told you as she lived her double life with her AP. In the best of circumstances it would by a Sisyphean task to heal from that, but in your case, your WW remains selfish, not remorseful, glib, etc. She is not doing a tiny fraction of what she ought to be, which is why you are thrashing about gnashing your teeth and grasping for that illusory magic pill or grand gesture.

It won't come. One day you'll open your eyes to your reality. Your WW is a chronic, long-term cheater. Note I say "is", not "was". She is still unfaithful to you, regardless whether she has an ongoing sexual relationship.

I am almost positive everyone, if not, many people, know at her work. There was apparently a lot of flirting during the first coworker wedding in 2012, both WW and OM2 attended.

As far as I know, OM2 is not contacting WW. But its WW word, which does not have much value right now. WW did say she will report OM2 in the event that OM2 contacts her in anyway. Again, it is all based on her word.

Issue with WW workplace is that there are long hours, sometimes lots of stress, and again they work in at minimum pairs. Sometimes 4-6 of the same people in a single area for months at a time. I am sure there are many affairs going on at that workplace that I am not privy too.

As for a grand gesture, I am not looking for any single idea here. What I am seeking is what does she need to do to get our M back on track. One recommendation was for us to rid the enemy of the relationship. Solid advice. And again it gives WW a chance to put me first and make me a priority. That is what was added to the list, but obviously WW is very hesistant.

The way one article puts it, consider our relationship a bank account. She cheated and put its at a negative balance. She needs to perform acts that is benefits the marriage and my healing/recon. And with those acts, she can begin to restore the balance of our account. I saw the one example being not getting all defensive when questioned, and I liked that idea. I am not looking for quick fixes, but I am looking for ideas here.

[This message edited by ReceivedChaos at 7:24 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)]

What I am seeking is what does she need to do to get our M back on track.

This presupposes your M was ever on track to begin with. The timeline you present suggests it never was.

The two main things a WW must do, at a bare minimum, are:

1. Figure out what is broken in her moral compass that caused her to cheat on you and lie to you for the entire duration of your marriage. At present, it doesn't feel like your WW perceives there is even anything broken in her, so she obviously has not started this. In the end, her goal is to make herself into a safe person.

2. The ephemeral matter of the heart -- convince you, via her consistent actions over time, that she genuinely loves and respects you. To date, she has shown you nothing but disrespect. She needs to become the opposite of who she is.

Frankly, I don't think she has what it takes. And I think you are looking for ways to rugsweep.

One recommendation was for us to rid the enemy of the relationship. Solid advice. And again it gives WW a chance to put me first and make me a priority. That is what was added to the list, but obviously WW is very hesistant.

Why is it obvious that she would be very hesitant to break off a shallow friendship with an asshole who is an enemy to your marriage. What should be obvious is that she is eager to do everything she can to help you heal. Going NC with the enemy of the marriage is completely low-hanging fruit. The easiest of baby steps. If she is hesitating to do even that, there is absolutely no way she has what it takes to invest the years and years of hard work to help you heal.

There is a book on what she should do.

Right now a he is doing everything wrong. All contact with OM needs to stop. She needs to leave her job. She needs to be honest with you. No more lies. She needs to get anyone who knew or helped with her affairs out of her life.

She says that she will report her boyfriend if he tried to contact her but has also said that he’s also been reported by someone else where she is magically unable to produce evidence of or, at worst, provide a follow-up report that she could produce evidence of.

She is lying to you.

First of all, I have an idea, and it certainly is a consequence, and I admit, it is horrible, but it appears you want to punish her :

Instead of you having a revenge affair, your wife has to fuck another man of your choice. A man that epitomizes everything she doesn't like, wrong ethnicity, stature, body type, obese, bald, bad teeth, whatever.

She has to engage in any sex act you require, with this man, and do the sex acts she did with POSOM.

And she must provide proof. Whether that is you watching or some other type of documentation.

Should you do this? Probably not.

***

Second of all, the enemy of the marriage friend is male? Do I have that correct?

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:43 AM, February 22nd (Friday)]

ReceivedChaos, come on man don't do this to yourself.

Your wife is an unrepentant serial cheater. She didn't just have an affair, she had a full-fledged second relationship for years. She was stone cold about deceiving you too.

And here you are, worried about how she'll feel because "people might bash her" and hoping she'll suddenly change. Hoping that without any consequences or repercussions she'll just suddenly see the light. You even let her stay at her place of employment and take her at her word that she isn't in contact with the guy anymore.

You're setting yourself up for DD3, DD4 etc. Stop caring so damn much about her and so little for yourself.

RC - how is it going?

Hi RC,

Sounds like things are a struggle with your WW. Perhaps it is time to show her that there can be some consequences for her crappy behavior.

Have you talked to a lawyer yet? Maybe it is time you get some knowledge of what divorce will look like in your state for yourself and your WW.

It maybe time to file, and put some pressure on your WW. Let her know, that you find it unacceptable to keep a enemy of the marriage in her circle of friends, and that as a result you have filed for D. Then do a hard 180.

As with your WW, actions speak louder that words.

Remember, divorce proceedings take a long time and can be stopped if your WW gets her head out of her butt.

As an update, WS decided to cut out the enemy of the relationship after much grief. I had kicked her out for a couple of nights during that week I was writing about it. It was still unfortunate that she decided that I was not a priority, that she had to think about it.

WS will be taking a polygraph test in a couple of weeks. I won't get into details since WS has access to these forums and to not give away any of the questions prior to the test.

We had some decent days and some bad days. As a back story my WS had said she will not be with any male, alone. Period. This was said several months ago. Consider it as a proactive way of removing any possibility of any future affairs for at least this time being considering the huge lack of trust and the fact she still works in the same dept as OM2. But she continues to work with other males, alone. So it would be with her and 1 other male in a control area.

The idea is that she would then go to management and make a request to only work with other female coworkers. That request never happened and WS decided it is not worth trying since there is a likelihood that the request would go unanswered or unfulfilled. Her excuse is that she did not want to divulge her indiscretions to her managers in the process of requesting she only work with females.

I was hoping at least she would make the effort seeing she is still working in the same dept as OM2 and isn't really doing anything else in terms of putting up hard stops to prevent future affairs from occurring at work with other males, short of not speaking about our personal lives to other males.

More importantly, she has gone back on her word which is where our current struggle is now. She said she made a promise she can not keep and now we apparently need to sit down and go over all of her promises and see which promises she made but can not keep. She states the only promise she knows she can keep is the not cheating part, but then again we made wedding vows and her word was no good then. Her words mean very little. She knows I want to see the action. Wanting something now doesn't hold a lot of value to me as her physically going out and doing things.

It was discovered that there is a job opening about 45-1hr away. She refused to apply because of the distance. Despite the fact that her current job takes about 1hr15mins to get too.

Any job she takes will definitively be a pay cut. But I would honestly tighten our belts and have some peace of mind. But she would rather wait for 1 specific location to open up a job position or if a satellite of her company opens up a position. She is not 100%, or even 75%, eager to leave her job.

So still in a limbo where she seems to not want to do some of the harder choices, like approaching her managers. That she would rather go back on her word than confront her managers with a request. I struggle with her and can not leave her. I guess I am still waiting to see where my breaking point is and realize she doesn't love me. And realize she isn't willing to do anything to earn me back.

[This message edited by ReceivedChaos at 10:58 AM, April 6th (Saturday)]

RC

Although my DDay was in 1981 there are some similarities with your situation.

My XW cheated whilst we were engaged, we had two young children on DDay - and she told me, in writing, that she would never allow herself to "be alone in an interesting situation with a single man".

Twenty-seven months later she gave me an STI.

Now - she may not have got the STI from being alone with a single man - her preference was for married men and, I've reason to believe, not always one at a time. Despite this we continued to appear married - some of the things she said made it clear that she had severe psychological problems and I was not prepared to be the occasional father to my kids knowing the extreme lack of concern for their welfare that she told me she had already shown to them.

However - as far as I was concerned - the marriage terminated on DDay and any attempt to build a new relationship ended when my doctor asked me who I was having sex with.

I intended to dump her once our younger had gone to university - in fact I brought that forward a couple of years. Post DDay I enjoyed a friendship (FWB?) with a lady in a similar situation (think Sgt Pepper Anderson!). We had been friends for some time and aware that we fancied each other rotten but kept it strictly friends until both of us had been cheated on.

I tolerated knowing that XW continued to be serially unfaithful in return for gaining great happiness in seeing my kids develop safely, my cuddles+ friendship mature and my career blossom (and my financial future thereby becoming assured). FWIW my elder says the kids had no idea that our marriage was dead until I gave my then wife the boot.

Why have I written this? - to show that there are a range of options for BSs. I'm not suggesting that anyone follow my route; most, I suspect, should not, but it worked for me. I'm contentedly retired, I'm financially stable and I enjoy a busy, active life. I share a decent house in a great location (and a magnificent mutt) with a lady who knocks spots off my XW in just about every positive you can imagine; and never once have I regretted taking the course I did.

Although it may not seem like it now - life may turn out to be so much better in later years. But it will help if once you make your decision you proceed as directly to your goal as life permits you to do.

Hi RC, how are things going? Any updates?

Thanks for checking in with me nekonamida.

GotTheTshirtToo Thanks for sharing, I am really not sure what the future holds at this point.

So I had IC last Tuesday. I actually told the counselor I thought we were doing much better over the past 2 weeks than we had for the past year. I felt very optimistic about everything.

We actually texted just regular conversation while we were at work last Monday that didn't involve logistics or the affair! I don't think that has happened in well over a year now.

Well after I got back home from IC, I told her what I thought and what we spoke about at IC. She brought up that she didn't think I was talking much over the course of 2 weeks. She said she thought I felt distant. I thought we were doing well because my WS was changing and not being combative every time we talked.

It then occurred to me that I was changing in trying to cope with everything. I apparently stopped talking to my WS about the affair since it always ends up in a fight. Couple weeks before I told her I wasn't going to talk to her about it because my WS wasn't going to change. I said I think the marriage is worth saving, so I will change for the both of us. Since it didn't feel like she was willing to make changes for the marriage. I didn't think I could do it, but apparently I was doing it. I was sacrificing how I wanted us to heal, because my WS refuses to change.

That night was when I saw that she was having friendly banter via text with a male coworker. This was when she is suppose to be no contact with any male coworkers, unless its work related. I know I might be crazy, since the coworker is gay, but as my therapist said, "my wound is still open" and WS should be more sensitive to my needs at the moment. I am being over dramatic/suspicious, but everything is a possibility to me now. And the possibility of a gay male coworker possibly wanting to test the heterosexual waters is a possibility to me.

So we fought for a couple of days. I realize she is still herself. We haven't spoken for a couple of days. An hour ago I just told her everything I've been thinking over the past couple of days. She barely said anything thinking she'll just argue with me or say the wrong thing. So here I am venting to everyone here since talking to my WS isn't doing anything. I guess we'll probably only talk during our marriage counseling sessions.

I told her she should have just pretended and accepted the credit I gave her that I thought she was changing for me because I started to become very optimistic in our future. But we are now restarting everything again. So back to square 1. Unfortunately, the more I see that she isn't willing to change, the more I think she is going to end up cheating again. Her continued lack of empathy when we talk seems like its because its always about her self preseverence. She continues to make exceptions to the rules we have set. Rules that I have set as a means to prevent any future affairs. But she isn't really willing to comply. Ie. phone in a static location in the house, verbalizing actions on the phone, not texting other males besides work only and family, etc. This experience has shown me that I can not distinguish the difference between a male friend/collegue and an affair partner when it comes to my WS. The more I read on here, the more likely it appears my WS will cheat again.

[This message edited by ReceivedChaos at 11:33 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]

Either she follows the rules, or they'll be consequences. She's used to you saving her from herself. While that's nice and all, it can't be good for her own self growth in the long run.

I think distancing yourself emotionally for now would be the right call. I'm not saying cut her off completely. I'm just saying give her the opportunity to change on her own.

She has already given you ample reason to at least pay a visit to the attorney. Not saying divorce, just pay a visit.

Unfortunately, the more I see that she isn't willing to change, the more I think she is going to end up cheating again

I agree 💯%

I said I think the marriage is worth saving, so I will change for the both of us. Since it didn't feel like she was willing to make changes for the marriage. I didn't think I could do it, but apparently I was doing it. I was sacrificing how I wanted us to heal, because my WS refuses to change.

Don't light yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm. You'll burn up.

She has never been a wife to you. Do yourself a favor.