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Just Found Out :
Beyond devastated

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sassylee ( member #45766) posted at 2:18 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

I’d ask the company to ping the phone to be sure the phone is really at the bottom of a pond and not in his desk at work.

My R(eformed)WH had a 5 month EA in 2012
In my 7th year of R
“LOVE is a commitment, not an emotion. It is a conscious act of a covenant of unconditional love. It is a mindset and a thought process.” - BigHeart2018’s Professor

posts: 11459   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2014   ·   location: 🇨🇦
id 8347657
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Limboaz ( member #59200) posted at 2:38 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

If you haven't already, you need to inform the OBS that your WH has a burner phone, and that his WW has had contact after D-Day, in case she hasn't already told him. He may not be checking this thread anymore.

This is a classic example of why we so often urge caution about false reconciliation, as the affair rarely ends abruptly after D-day (and we sometimes get a lot of criticism for it).

posts: 118   ·   registered: Jun. 13th, 2017   ·   location: Southwest
id 8347667
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coastofsomewhere ( member #3624) posted at 2:55 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

You do need to let the OBS know, but do so with a plan.

The OW hopefully has no idea that you know about the phone so her OBS can bring this up to her in a way that may produce more information. He needs to inform her that he knows about the burner phone as if it was used more than just that one time "I'll always think fondly of you" phone call. If she knows he knows about it, she may assume he knows about how many times your WH used it to call her.

As a side note...I highly doubt your WH purchased a phone to make 1 phone call. If he was only going to make 1 phone call, he could have done that at work, a gym, a friend's house. You purchase a phone to make phone calls...not A phone call.

posts: 5234   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2004   ·   location: on the coast of somewhere beautiful
id 8347682
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stubbornft ( member #49614) posted at 3:40 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Agree with those above, doesn't seem logical to purchase a burner for one conversation. Also throwing it in the pond sounds illogical as well. Why didn't he throw it in the trash at work?

Ladybug you are doing well. I am so sorry that your husband has deceived you AGAIN. I can't remember - have you seen an attorney yet? I think it is time if you have not. Just get an idea of your rights and let your husband know you are looking at all options. Reconciliation isn't the only option.

You are still young and active and have a young son. There is a lot of life ahead for you. If you want to reconcile with your husband and he gets his shit together, great. If not, though, you could still have a great life. A dear friend of mine is in a relationship that is just about to hit 1 year and she is the happiest I have ever seen her. She is 55 and he is just a few years older. She is a runner and her kids are grown and she has a really lovely life.

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I know that breaking NC is common, but I am really pissed for you. You questioned this affair for a while and were lied to repeatedly and now this. It sucks.

R or D - people here have your back. HUGS lady.

Me: BS 40 Him: WS 51 He cheated with massage parlor sex workersDday 01/19/2021
Kicked him out in 2021 - life is better on the other side. Moved on with the help of a wonderful therapist.

posts: 852   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2015   ·   location: TX
id 8347703
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 3:53 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Contact after DDay isn't unusual. And while it seems implausible that your WH would buy a burner phone and a charge card for one call, it's not impossible. So, the questions are... Where did he get the money? Did he take cash from and ATM or cash over at a store? Why didn't he use a work phone or borrow a phone? What did he have to say that was so important that he was willing to spend more that $50. to say it? Was the OW involved in any way in his decision to buy a burner phone or was it his own idea? Had there been any contact by alternative means previous to the purchase?

I'm thinking that these guys are right when they suggest that the only way you're going to find out if there was more than just this one call is to schedule him for a polygraph. Cheaters lie, and because their history is that of a liar, there's no other way for them to prove the veracity of their words when they've destroyed the evidence.

Because it's so typical to discover contact in the first few weeks after DDay, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no possibility of R. Shortly after DDay, my own WH asked me for 30 days to prove to me that he could be trusted. I agreed but stipulated that there would be NC with the OWs. Before the month was out I discovered additional contact, not sexual contact, but still. At that point, I told him that he was either going to be "all in" or "all out" of the marriage, and not some time in the nebulous future, but there and then, on the spot. As far as I know, and I have reason to believe it's true due to the OW's continued entreaties for contact, he ghosted her at that time. That was four years ago, and there's been no contact on his part since.

Not making excuses, but just as there are commonalities in other affair-related behaviors, there are also commonalities in broken contact. The WS, even if he's otherwise sincere about R, is typically under the influence of an addictive biochemical response to the affair behavior, feelings of guilt for backing away from the future-faking, and still emotionally enmeshed with the AP to the extent that his sympathies/loyalty are divided. As much as those things offend our sensibilities as BS, they don't often just blink out existence on DDay.

That said, the guy wasn't under the influence of some kind of psychosis. He fully understood the risks. So, if you want to be done with him, that's totally your call. Even without any further contact, it was always your call. We never owe a cheater another chance. There's no ambiguity surrounding the marriage vows. He knew what he was doing when he made his choices.

((hugs))

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7098   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8347709
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Sallie2 ( new member #63205) posted at 3:59 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

LBM, I have been following both your thread and the OBS rooting for both of you. I am so sorry for this set back. I felt sick last night when I read about the phone, and I find myself sitting at my desk this morning still feeling sick and thinking about you.

I know this is a big blow, but it doesn't mean he is not being genuine now. He bought the phone two days after DD. Two days after their heads are still up their asses. They still think there were real feelings there and they feel they need closure. They are still in the "fog". I know it's not an excuse and it doesn't make it okay, but everything he has been doing and saying since then I am hoping, was real and genuine.

He sounds like he did get his head out of his ass. It just might not have happened in the first couple of days after Dday. I am sorry. It all sucks, having to deal with any of this sucks.

Tell him you want the full truth, and ask him to take a lie detector. Tell him you want to know exactly what the phone was used for and any more lies will be a deal breaker. It may have been purchased with the intent of using it for more, but perhaps he is telling the truth that it was only used for the one phone call.

I don't know. It is rare to get all the the truth the first day. Take this as a set back but hopefully you can still keep moving forward from here with the full truth now.

Again, I am so sorry.

posts: 19   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2018
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childofcheater ( member #33887) posted at 4:41 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

It sounds like you've been through the wringer again in the last 24 hrs. Take care of yourself and your son. There's lots of advice here but ultimately u have to do what's best for you. (((LBM)))

Me: 42 yo, him 41Married 19 years together 233 kids: DD15, DD12, DS9DDay 2/9/12 found suspicious text to coworkerStatus: in R, work in progress

posts: 583   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2011   ·   location: East Coast
id 8347734
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 5:09 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

I understand that the OW knows about SI.

If she knows, then your husband knows.

Not necessarily the end of the world since DD. Maybe he'll learn something constructive that helps him and you.

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id 8347759
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free2016 ( member #53526) posted at 7:44 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

If OW knows about SI, then she would find this thread.

BW 40, WH 55
DDay May 2016

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id 8347882
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MamaDragon ( member #63791) posted at 8:12 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Do you still have the cuticle scissors handy?

What has been his reactions/actions to your discovering it? How did you discover it.

Go see a lawyer now - show him how serious you are. Hand him both divorce papers w/spousal support & a post nup. Make him choose...Once you get over this TT. Who knows, He may have just bought it to say goodbye (kinda silly but).

(hugs)

BS - 40 something at A time, over 50 now
WS - him, younger than me
Reconciled

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MamaDragon ( member #63791) posted at 8:15 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

I have to echo another posters point - he bought it two days after DD...so his head was still in the affair fog so he probably wasn't thinking clearly. It doesn't excuse his actions, but his mind set was not as clear as it could have been...that being said TT happens with 99% of WS. I expect you might uncover other things that he deems "unimportant" even though to us, the WS everything is important. They don't always understand that it is better to hear everything all at once rather than having the scab torn off with TT.

BS - 40 something at A time, over 50 now
WS - him, younger than me
Reconciled

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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 8:20 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Having to find out stuff like this is just awful LBM.

But just remember, as others here have more eloquently said, the options are still yours.

Many here at SI have Divorced for less and Many here at SI have reconciled when confronted with TT like your WH has delivered.

Breaking NC is very common shortly after DDay. But not admitting it is Wayward thinking still. You should at the very least use this to tell him whatever other secrets he is hiding should be revealed right now if there is even a chance you’d still consider R with him.

In the meantime, focus on yourself.

If he’s truly all in he should be working on a healing plan and continuing with IC and finding ways to prove transparency. .

If this has shown you he is actually not wanting reconciliation then stop talking to him about anything but finances and your son and begin to move on yourself.

What is he saying to you now? What words are you hearing about this?

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:44 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

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marriageredux959 ( member #69375) posted at 8:34 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

LBM, gently, I am concerned that this isn't your husband's first rodeo.

It's just a speculation on my part.

I suspect this is merely the first AP he's chosen that was so close/so visible to you. Right under your nose, as it were. He seems/seemed way too comfortable with that.

Experienced players tend toward playing, if that's all they want (and that's all most want) with other experienced players, or at least with people who are unlikely to burn down the house. Many will deliberately seek out married AP partners, wagering that the married AP partner has as much to lose as they do, and are thus less likely to blow up their lives.

I speculate that, if your WH is indeed a player, part of his wager with this AP was that she, like he, is the higher wage earner in the household. She has as much to lose, financially, in a divorce as he does.

She wasn't particularly on his radar until she became more physically fit, lost some weight, and then she became a viable candidate. The fact that they were both the higher income spouses should have made her a safer bet, but it didn't work out that way.

She fell into some sort of emotional bond and started imagining a future together, which he then had to manage.

The OW didn't drop the affair like a hot potato upon discovery, and go immediately into all out damage control mode at home with her husband, to protect both her income and assets and his. She went to see an attorney instead. That probably terrified your husband, who had no intention of disrupting his life or his finances with a divorce as the result of what he considered to be a casual dalliance.

He could have called her from your home, with his cell phone, right in front of you, to say his goodbyes. The goodbyes didn't need to be especially loving but they didn't need to be especially cruel, either. In fact, he *should* have done this right in front of you.

If he couldn't bring himself to do that, then he could have called from work. He could have used a friend's phone and called in the presence of a trusted friend who is supportive of your marriage. There are so many things he could have done short of buying a burner.

The fact that he kept the Tracfone card is suspicious to me. If it was truly a one and done, the Tracfone minutes card should have tossed with the burner phone- if the burner was tossed.

Check on this, but it's my understanding that one must buy "airtime" (access) and then buy minutes as well. Some minutes cards come with built in airtime. Some cards are airtime, with an allotment of minutes, which are refillable. If you still have that card, you need to take a good look at it to see what exactly it does for that burner phone. There is information there about the intent for that burner.

Maybe I'm naive (scratch, I *am* naive) but buying a burner phone immediately following DDay is not a rookie move in my book. It's a strategic maneuver by someone who was either thinking ahead, or has been here before.

I would think that a husband who was busted in his very first and only dalliance and was in crisis mode with his wife, trying to reconcile, saying he wanted to save the marriage, would avoid doing something as obviously incriminating as buying a burner phone like he would avoid the plague.

I'd bet, and this is just my gut talking, I could be very, very wrong- that this strategic maneuvering isn't so much about continuing the affair (although it could be, what do I know?) as it is about damage control.

If it's about damage control, that would bother me as much if not more than if it was about a continued connection between these two individuals.

The continued connection, while inappropriate and undesirable in terms of the marriage, is not surprising- these people had an affair.

If it's damage control, to me it speaks more to a player situation- someone who "knows the ropes" and is trying to get a situation back under control.

If this is the case, probably no one was more surprised than your husband when the AP "fell in love."

I'm not a huge fan of polygraphs. I've always said that if I felt like I needed to make my husband take a polygraph over any other woman (or anything, really) I'd save both of us the trouble, time and expense and go straight to the attorney's office. I'd sooner sleep with a snake than sleep next to a man I'd forced to take a polygraph.

In this case, however, if you choose to stay in this marriage, you will need a level set. The most important question I'd want answered out of that polygraph- and perhaps the only answer I'd really need- is how many other affairs/APs have there been. The answer to this question (if polygraphs work that way, I have no idea) will tell you what type of situation you are facing here.

A burner phone speaks to a level of sophistication and willingness to take risks that would need to be addressed, explored and explained to my satisfaction before I spent another night under the same roof with that man.

I was once a June bride.
I am now a June phoenix.
The phoenix is more powerful.
The Bride is Dead.
Long Live The Phoenix.

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Babette2008 ( member #69126) posted at 9:12 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

((Ladybugmam))

Like everyone else I was following your thread and hopeful for you. I know now that it took my H awhile to break things off with his last AP after I confronted him about concerns with our relationship and he acted like he was working on our M while still communicating with the AP. By the time I knew about the A - a year later, their relationship was over but it took awhile, and ultimately I think it took me knowing about it to keep it from starting up again. The OW still tried to contact my H for a year afterwards. Its a process.

I wouldn't trust him, and I think you are right to be angry but it doesn't mean that he is still actively cheating.

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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:27 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

I'm not sure why we are minimizing this.

This isnt TT. She found it,he didnt tell her.

Yes, breaking NC is common. That doesnt make it ok, or hurt any less.

And,true, it doesnt mean he is actively cheating. But it doesnt mean he's not either. All she has to go on is the words of a liar. What it DOES mean, is that, he has been actively lying to her every day since dday. He is still very,very much a WS.

I agree with every word posted by marriageredux. This is not a rookie move. By far.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:28 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)]

But you are what you did
And I'll forget you, but I'll never forgive
The smallest man who ever lived..

posts: 6822   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8347946
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 Ladybugmaam (original poster member #69881) posted at 9:30 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Chamomile Tea...I think I identify or want to identify most with your post. He says he bought the phone 2 days after DD to say goodbye. He call her office (he doesn't have an office). He then had 3 coversations over the course of the first week of proper NC to say goodbye - he says.

It was a $25.00 burner. Something completely plausible with using once or twice and toss. OBS confronted OW and she has the same story. I think they were comparing notes on us a little bit. H says he was trying to let go of feelings he had and needed it for closure.

Keeping the card associated with the phone has lots more to do with H's absolute lack of the ability to be tidy or organized.

What stunk was that rather than saying these things calmly and rationally which I could've understood.....and do understand the need to close that chapter of his life and KNEW it was something he couldn't do around me. He lied, again. He claimed the phone was for a business issue from 8 years ago. The car is new to him. Silly stupid childish lie. Then went on telling me it wasn't what I thought as I called the phone carrier and verified the activitaion date....which is the only data we can get on this phone. The phone company can't ping it as it's been disabled (or in the pond).

Further stinks that I've been asking every couple of days if there has been any contact, as I keep reading that it happens.....and he lied over and over again about that. He said he was trying to protect my feelings while he got ride of his. He said that it was another of his stupid mistakes and an extension of the lie of the affair, but that it is done. She is wiped from every part of his life now.

He's said that if he wanted to continue the A, he could....that it might be the easy way out. But, that she was not the person he wanted to die with. That if I can't believe anything he says, believe what he's doing. And, he's choosing to be here with me. Then to match the night of the cuticle scissors and destroyed racing shirts, he tossed all the medals earned with AP.

I shared something with H about something OBS posted in his thread - couching it as though it was something OBS told me. I don't think OW has breached SI.....certainly not from me. That being said, I know a google search will bring it up - as well as all the same recommeded books.

Further, he has sinced signed over everything financially to me. I know in a D there would have to be an equitable division regardless of who owns what now, but I took that as part of committing to fixing this. I think/hope/pray this was just a big bump in the long road ahead of us. I am not making a major decision today and D or no D. I have decided to committ to working on the marriage. D will have to come when we work and decide not to continue. I love this man. I also asked him if he jumps to lies when other people confront him. (25 years together and this is a new one on me for him). He said that yes, he thinks he does. He said he paniced.

It's rough.

EA DD 11/2018
PA DD 2/25/19
One teen son
I am a phoenix.

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id 8347949
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 10:19 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

My gut says he's lying about this. People have remarked that the stories/timelines of your WH and the AP (per the OBS thread) have lined up to a remarkable degree, suggesting they were still in contact so they could synch their stories. Your BH lied to you, right away, when you discovered the phone. His pattern has been to get caught, lie about it, get caught in the lie, lie more, etc.

The fact that you told him something that then got back to the OBS suggests he is still in contact with the AP.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4183   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8347982
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 10:57 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

The fact that you told him something that then got back to the OBS suggests he is still in contact with the AP.

First it was one call, now he called 3 times, he's still doing TT, I would still have him take a polygraph, if you didn't tell OW anything, unless OW found SI the only way she could have known that info is by NC, contact OBS and confirm that the information you shared with your WH is the same info that the OBS claims she learned, also tell him exactly when you disclosed that to your WH to see if that was within the week after Dday of if it was later, that would pretty much indicate they've been in contact for much longer than what they're now saying.

I wouldn't be so "understanding" with a cheater's need to have "closure", they should just swallow it and respect the pain of the WS, so after devastating you and sobbing a lot, just within a few days he was back in contact with AP, for whatever reason, it's a huge betrayal and disrespect, also his immediate response when confronted is to lie, he would need intense IC to deal with his issues, watch his actions and stay vigilant.

posts: 2738   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8348000
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 11:01 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Further, he has sinced signed over everything financially to me. I know in a D there would have to be an equitable division regardless of who owns what now, but I took that as part of committing to fixing this.

Very important information. I agree it's impressive evidence that he 'wants' to R (unless he has other financial resources).

However, he has a long way to go. I wish you guys well.

posts: 2599   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8348005
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 11:13 PM on Wednesday, March 20th, 2019

Well as someone who has used Trac phones in the past, not for anything sneaky but I was selling a lot of camera equipment online and didn't want my real phone number in the ads, the card is like a gift card where you scratch off the silver stuff to reveal the activation code and maybe the phone number. You don't need that after you start up the service because you add time with another card or on the phone with a CC.

I used it about 6 times then was out of minutes, but had sold my stuff. I ended up donating the phone along with other old phones to a place that gave them to people in domestic violence situations.

So yes, people will spend $35 (casH) at Target to protect privacy of a few phone calls.

The bad thing is he lied about where it came from so he probably lied about where it is...if it wasn't in the pond before, it is now...

Now when I sell stuff I have a Google voice number which is a alternate number on my iPhone.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 5:16 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)]

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

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id 8348008
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