SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well SMS, that certainly got me curious. Apparently you're not alone, seems that gay male porn is higher up on the list for women than I expected. :)

Just wondering, why? So a little more research, and some of the answers were expected, but this one, really really blew my mind:

The women surveyed also expressed a “strong desire to consume porn that is ethical in some way,” Neville said, and they found some heterosexual porn “exploitative.” She found there was a general sense among those interviewed that male actors participate in pornography because they enjoy sex, while some interviewees indicated they were worried about women performers and the gender dynamics in heterosexual porn.

And while the first part (wanting ethical porn) doesn't surprise me, the content consumed does!! Because, in case nobody told these women, most of the performers in gay male porn actually aren't gay! Actually, that whole statement blows my mind and just reinforces things that I am often told here aren't true (and I hope they aren't). But a lot of M/F porn is just two really attractive (and really hung) people going at it. Yes, of course there's the really rough stuff, and the stuff that I'm not sure anyone really likes to do IRL, but, if you just go an start clicking random links on any tube site, most of the porn is just going to be "hot girl and guy with a big d**k", not a choking/skat with hamsters and whips thing. :) It just amazes me that it seems "more ethical" to watch a 2 men who are straight sleep together than it is to watch a man/women who are both hetrosexual sleep together.

Are there no female actors in porn who engage in it because they like the work? Do all male porn stars, gay, straight, or gay for pay like the work? I'm nearly sure that both of those statements are EASILY proven as false. I'd think "gay for pay" would be the least likely porn for the participants to enjoy, not the most.

There's something profound in that statement that I'm not sure I've honed in on yet. But it speaks to my core to read something like that.

For me, I've watched porn for years and I have always gravitated towards lesbian or gay male porn. A good deal of hetero porn is just all about the guy and the women are just masturbatory props. Lesbian porn (real lesbian porn, not the nonsense geared towards men) shows women being touched in ways that would actually feel good. Gay male porn...well, that's two hot dudes. What's better than one hot guy? Two. Or 10. Whatever. I wasn't looking at porn to see boobs, after all.

After all the crap with my WH, porn has become a bit of a trigger and I am still quite pissed off about that. His porn addiction screwed with my ability to enjoy it. I was absolutely replaced by porn and prostitutes.

And yes, as you know RIO, lots of women also have high sex drives and like to masturbate to porn. Porn isn't necessary as the imagination can be quite good too. I know for me, I read a lot of the stuff on here that generalizes about the sex drives of men and women and it does bug me because I cannot relate. I have yet to meet a man who wanted sex more often than I did. I feel tons of sympathy for all of us who were turned down for sex only for the idiot we married to be giving all kinds of sex to either their hands or other people. Male or female, it is brutal.

This may sound weird, but if the woman or women in the video do not look like they are genuinely enjoying themselves in ways that I know feel good, then I would rather not watch porn at all. It matters that much to me. (Two hot guys could work, but I haven't explored that.)

I am so revolted by women faking it during uncomfortable, unsatisfying, and/or degrading sex acts that I will not watch anything unless it is labeled Amateur, and even then I see unpleasant stuff. It's too triggery for me to see women subjecting themselves to what I am positive (in my head and heart) that they are getting zero enjoyment from, just a paycheck.

Women masturbating is way better to me than watching porn made by the porn industry because I know those women are enjoying themselves. It is very triggery for me to see women having sex in the way men like to see it because it gives me that objectified feeling that I've hated all my life. I don't think men realize what a complicated labyrinth a woman's sexuality is. Our minds definitely matter.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:42 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

Except that most women don't have the same drive for orgasm that men do (as evidenced by, well, everything, but let's start with mastrubation frequency between the sexes; cliff notes version, men do it earlier in life and more often throughout their entire lives than women do).

Or, perhaps it's that most women don't have the same drive for orgasm that men do when sex revolves around him and his turn ons and "needs" and hers are treated as an afterthought, not to mention she's discouraged from early on and told to avoid being sexual and to not give up her "purity" because men don't like "used goods". In other words, if sex was more about her, and if she weren't regularly shamed for her sexuality, you just MIGHT see women having the same drive for orgasm as men!

When you stack the deck against women's sexuality, are you very surprised that women might lose interest?

So, have you researched why a lot of women might prefer lesbian porn to straight porn?

[This message edited by silverhopes at 9:38 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

Or, perhaps it's that most women don't have the same drive for orgasm that men do when sex revolves around him and his turn ons and "needs" and hers are treated as an afterthought, not to mention she's discouraged from early on and told to avoid being sexual and to not give up her "purity" because men don't like "used goods". In other words, if sex was more about her, and if she weren't regularly shamed for her sexuality, you just MIGHT see women having the same drive for orgasm as men!

This could be true, it seems that a lot of women are with quite selfish men, I'd never say that's not a contributing factor. But, if you re-read my point, it was masturbation frequency that I cited as the first point there, no man necessary/involved at all in that one.

So, in short, I think that society does none of us (men or women) any favors by shaming female sexuality, on that point we agree. But, no, I don't think this can all, or even mostly be attributed to "society", there are just intrinsic biological differences between the sexes particularly when it comes to the "spontaneous drive" for sex. Most women have a far more reactive than proactive drive, when someone wants to have sex with them, they feel like having sex. Where many men have a proactive drive, they want to have sex and then set about making that happen. Men fantasize more and masturbate more, and I think that both of them show, pretty clearly, that there's something intrinsically different. Especially when, especially today, female masturbation is often "celebrated" (which is a good thing!) where male masturbation is still shamed in a lot of ways (which is a bad thing). Women have sex toy parties, I've never heard of the same for men. Women's magazines always have "diddling tips" where men's rarely do. And most men, myself included, find the thought of women "going solo" to be very erotic (and I told lots of women that that I was dating) where I've never had a woman say the same to me. Men are more shamed for it than women today, IMHO, by a large margin and yet, we still do it with quite a bit more frequency than the average woman.

You underestimate what the effects of years of conditioning can do to a person's libido and/or courage to engage in various sexual activities. If girls are taught that they're dirty if they masturbate, then they're going to be less likely to masturbate. You'd be surprised what girls are taught from a young age, over and over again. Fortunately, we seem to be trying to grow more sex-positive as a society and really talk about and do away with shaming stereotypes of women's sexuality. We're not totally there yet... I can think of any number of news stories to show we're not there yet. Perhaps part of why many women haven't had a proactive drive is because we've been discouraged from doing so. We can't chalk something up as hard-and-fast biology, nor absolute social influence either. It's a combination of factors. But I think you're underestimating social factors, and as a result you don't quite understand female sexuality.

To be honest, I haven't seen any of the messages you have about men's sexuality being bad. But then again, I'm not a man, so you might be extra attuned. What I have seen are folks being somewhat obtuse about #metoo and everything that's followed and claiming it's an attack on men's sexuality - it's not! It's calling out very specific people for very specific behaviors, namely sexual assault. But people take it personally even when it's not about them and claim it's about suppressing male sexuality and become so entrenched in that worry that they grow defensive and don't pause to hear if they're misinterpreting. And thus the conversation shifts to men as victims of sexual shaming, when that wasn't the original topic at all. It's a way of derailing and silencing the conversation about sexual assault, a conversation meant to support survivors of all genders, not victimize men. Men's sexuality isn't under attack at all - predators, be they male OR female, are the ones being called out. If you're not a predator, then it's not about you!

W.R.T. your point about women being with selfish men... Sometimes that's the case (as many women here have posted about), and other times, we're talking about a system.

The system differs from the individual in that it's a context we live in. Commercials, movies, the entire porn industry - those tell us again and again that sex is a male need. They do not acknowledge that it's a female need too. It's a human need. The system exerts a lot of pressure in ways you might not understand unless you're the one being excluded from the narrative.

Instead of taking it so personally, look at the world we live in. Look at what it tells us we should be like. Then add in all the usual complications of life and hurtful people and painful experiences. Suppose the system was different towards everyone... Imagine if the shaming went away entirely, in the different ways genders are shamed. Imagine if there were no more censorships around men as fathers, etc. Imagine if there were no more censorships around women as being sexual, etc.

If girls are taught that they're dirty if they masturbate, then they're going to be less likely to masturbate. You'd be surprised what girls are taught from a young age, over and over again.

And maybe those social influences impact women more than men; but, I can tell you, I was taught from an early age that "masturbation is dirty" too, and, let me tell you, didn't slow me down at all. Neither did other men telling me "your a loser" for masturbating, women shaming me for doing it, or anything else. And while women might get the same message early (it's wrong) from their parents, by the time they are adults, they are getting a very different message (please do it for me and tell me about it, you're so hot doing it, let's have a party and pass plastic penises around, etc) than guys get, one that's far more "positive" than those a man gets.

And yet, despite all that, men still do it more. Not just in our society, in all societies that I've ever seen studied.

I do understand and agree with what your saying, society plays a role too, no doubt that's true. But biology is a huge influence on it, IMHO, it accounts for most of the difference with society playing a contributing factor (in some cases, in others, like masturbation, if anything society is depressing the male numbers and inflating the female numbers by shaming men and praising women for doing it).

There is an intrinsic difference between male and female sexuality. The ultimate purpose of sex is to pass on our genetic information. Men can do that at any time with minimal effort. Women can only do that for a few days every month or so, and there is a lot more effort put into it.

So, yeah, in general, men have higher sex drives than women. Or, maybe higher isn't the right word. More consistent?

And, evolutionarily speaking, men are not meant to be monogamous. Women aren't, necessarily, either. It's more advantageous for women to be monogamous so that their offspring are more likely to survive, but only if the man is monogamous as well.

There are societies where fathers don't care for their children. They don't even know which children are theirs. The uncles care for the children because they know they are genetically related through their mothers.

Exactly, sisoon. Who knows whose device or login ID I'm using to browse the web, or if I was honest about being male or female?

On another note, I have never been interested in gay male porn. Don't want to see it. Nope.

There is always the question of whether or not a female sex worker actually enjoys what she is doing or if she has been forced or coerced in some way. I don't know of any who has said they absolutely enjoyed it. I have read of some who have said that they felt abused the entire time and had to be on drugs to do any of it. Plus, hot woman and big sick don't appeal to me. The guys are usually not that attractive, imo.

We're not getting a different message by the time we're adults. We get shamed by people in our everyday lives like you do... The difference is, there are still cultural narratives that celebrate male sexuality. For goodness' sakes, porn is MADE for you. You're not pressured to wear white at your wedding as a sign of your virginity. You're not raised with the male equivalent of the word "slut". And you're not told that your greatest aspiration is to become a supporting character in someone else's story - all the movies or histories we're shown and told are about men taking the lead. That longstanding acknowledgement of your agency - agency we're only just now beginning to acknowledge about women - has given you a freedom we don't have. You're free to want things without immediately feeling guilty over whether you're neglecting someone else in your life. You're free to have ambitions and "go where no man has gone before". Maybe it doesn't wind up becoming your reality in life, but those are the messages you're given from a young age. Girls, on the other hand, are shown as staying home and keeping the fires burning. We are told to practice being a wife and mother from the age of 3 onward. We're given dolls for crying out loud - we're told to always be conscious of others. Boys are encouraged to do so as well, I'm sure, but not to the same extent. We seem to be changing this now and acknowledging girls can be independent and that her greatest aspiration doesn't have to be becoming a mother - but think about what kind of pressure that puts us under. We're always putting others first before ourselves, lest we be selfish, and of course being selfish is one of the worst things a girl can be. We're "supposed to be" caretakers. Or that's what society's relentless narrative tells us to do.

Rather than respond or compare it to a man's experiences, if you really want to know where some of us might be coming from, try mentally inhabiting those shoes for a moment. Just try to imagine how that might shape your world and what kinds of challenges you might have to overcome, and what the consequences would be of overcoming those challenges.

Comparisons between men and women don't necessarily help. It can be dismissive and invalidating. Empathy helps. Living inside of someone else's shoes, rather than immediately go to "well, I would..." can go a long way in understand why people do what they do.

Women have sex toy parties, I've never heard of the same for men.

Well the fake rubber vagina WH was given by the guys at his old work wasn't purchased for me, that's for sure...

And yet, despite all that, men still do it more. Not just in our society, in all societies that I've ever seen studied.

How do you know that? And how do you know that the woman didn't have a good 5 or 6 orgasms when she masturbated two days ago and her body is letting her alone with it for a minute?

As for sex, let's be real, a woman is more likely to have orgasms by herself than with a partner who doesn't know her body. I can go pick some dude up any day and have sex with him and the odds of me getting anything other than turned on and left with some later masturbatory material are pretty low.

T/J - It's funny about what people want to see in porn. When I grew up, it was pretty uncommon - 8 mm reels distributed on the down low.

Living overseas, I tutored a guy in English over dinner. One day I showed up at his office, and there was group of guys, one of whom looked creepy. The creepy guy set up a projector and screen, and I thought, 'Goody. Local porn.'

Nope, Western porn. They wanted to see something different from what they already knew. - End T/J

Yes, of course there's the really rough stuff, and the stuff that I'm not sure anyone really likes to do IRL, but, if you just go an start clicking random links on any tube site, most of the porn is just going to be "hot girl and guy with a big d**k", not a choking/skat with hamsters and whips thing.

But see, that "hot girl and guy with a big dick" porn is also "stuff that I'm not sure anyone really wants to do IRL," if you substitute "any woman" in the sentence. No, I don't want to be choked or have a hamster up my butt, and yes, I would be concerned about whether the actress in such a video was really on board with what was happening (not to mention my concern for the hamster). But what's insidious is the fact that when I watch "hot girl and guy with big dick," I'm usually seeing things that are about as appealing to me as the choking and the hamster, but that most men really think women want. Sex in awkward positions that have zero possibility of clitoral stimulation. Women being jackhammered in every orifice, with those big dicks that hurt when we're fucked by them, even though men never believe us when we say it. Professional porn actresses who are in too much pain to even fake a smile, but instead manage to grimace in ways that are consistent with sexual arousal. Multiple acts of this in a sequence that builds up pleasure for the man at the expense of the woman.

Now, a woman going down on another woman may be faking arousal, but I don't object to actors acting. At least I'm not seeing something that I know from my own experience is almost certainly causing a woman physical pain for the pleasure of the audience. Big dick hetero porn often makes me cross my legs in sympathy instead of arousal, and it depresses me that it's the ideal of sex for an increasing number of men.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 6:03 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)]