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@Sisoon,

I'm sorry, and I did wonder if I should post it at all (perhaps not). I'm happy to post the sources to back what I said, but, I've done that before and gotten the hand slapped. Statistics are, by nature, generalizations, but those generalizations are based on data and evidence, not supposition and conjecture.

Is there something in particular you disagree with or just the use of statistics (or the statistics that I'm citing) to draw these conclusions?

Thinking of you, Sisoon.

I am a strong believer that internet porn can be an addiction. If it causes problems in the life of the user, if they hide it, if it becomes an obsession, if they make promises to abstain and they cannot keep them, it is time to take a good look at the possibility of an addiction. I am a recovering alcoholic, 20 years. I have been around addiction and addicts my whole life. I can say without a doubt in my mind that pornography can be an addiction. I have seen this personally in my husband. My husband had an affair with a client. He is a recovering addict, so he has an addictive personality. His lack of coping skills, moral integrity and his addiction to internet porn created a monster. His addiction progressed (they always do) into an affair. Internet porn has caused so many of us horrendous pain (and I am in no way putting the blame totally on it, for sure). It helped to create some horrible cartoon version of my husband. He became obsessed with fishing for other women, saw them as non-human and only as the means to his sick and twisted end. He wanted to participate in more and more perversion as normal, healthy sex could not get him stimulated. He was unable to keep an erection due to Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction. It took years of therapy IC AND MC to see a man who I could begin to trust again. He had one PA and was looking for another victim when I caught him. My husband was diagnosed by a CSAT. He does not watch porn, as it is, as some other posters have said, a "gateway drug" to self-destructive behavior. He made the choice to abstain from masturbation alone (without me there). He feels like this is necessary to ensure his, and my, safety.He continues to go to therapy and to 12 step programs. This is what it takes for him to be safe. Your husband sounds like mine.. He will need intensive help to become a human again. I am not sure that he is even capable of R at this point.

My guess would be that, if the stats are the same across cultures and such, it's because all modern cultures are male dominated. There is a built in bias.

Have you thought about why women search mostly for lesbian porn? It's pretty obvious. I'll wait.

My guess would be that, if the stats are the same across cultures and such, it's because all modern cultures are male dominated. There is a built in bias.

A bias to what? That's the wonderful thing about stats gathered from things like the tube sites, it's totally anonymous, everyone knows it's anonymous, and, because of that, people can (and do) ask "Google" or "Youporn" to show them what they want to see or read. The search stats for Google are equally interesting and a unique look into the largest anonymous survey that will be or can be every conducted. Are people really racist? Do men really like women with small boobs? Do people regret having children? Google has all the answers because they have the statistics to back them up. No, NOT all people. Every women doesn't search for lesbian porn, anymore than every man searches for MILFs. But the volume of data gives us an easy way to say "there are a lot of men who have an obsession with their mothers/older women". Even though nobody would admit it, there's something that a lot of men enjoy about the concept for sleeping with a family member.

Have you thought about why women search mostly for lesbian porn? It's pretty obvious. I'll wait.

I feel like this might be a trick question, but.. I'll take a shot at it. Because they find lesbian porn to be sexually erotic and stimulating? Or are you digging deeper, because they want to have a lesbian experience? Or because they don't really like men or penises and want their porn "sans-penis"? I don't know, but I'm really curious now, I just assumed they watched that kind of porn for the same reason that I watch that kind of porn occasionally, because they like to watch women together.

Have you thought about why women search mostly for lesbian porn?

Oooohhh, I know. I researched it once, and when I saw the answer, I completely agreed. I do not have any attraction to women, but I WAY prefer lesbian porn to "regular" porn.

*Meanwhile, BraveSirRobin contributes to scientific research by Googling "why women like lesbian porn"*

ETA: yep, makes total sense to me.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 3:00 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]

Everything is so contradictory, "I hate being used for sex" and then "Enter into an A where I am used for sex". Things like that, I just can't make heads/tails of it.

Male reasons for A are just as contradictory, because it's never as clear cut as that, is it? Man has an A as he complains he doesn't get any/enough sex, understanding, variety or whatever at home. He gets as much as is appropriate between two ppl jointly contending with jobs, house, kids, etc. Same as woman not wanting to feel used for sex in her marriage, as its not 'compensated for' in other areas such as H doing any share of housework or bringing home flowers, or telling her how wonderful she is. AP makes her feel good in many ways, so she doesn't just feel used for sex. Come on, you must know this already?

RIO, I was talking about the stats gathered through surveys and questionnaires. Those would be biased for many reasons. The anonymous internet stats are more compelling. How do they know if the person searching is male or female?

So, you are incorrect on all counts as to why women prefer lesbian porn. Hetero women prefer lesbian porn because it is focused on female enjoyment rather than male. There's a lot of focus on oral. That's how most women orgasm. It's usually more sensual and certainly less degrading to women.

Hetero male/female porn is usually pretty disgusting from a female POV. Ugly men, rarely much foreplay or orL for the woman, a lot of times very degrading, humiliating, and sometimes abusive treatment of women. It's all focused on male pleasure.

So, you are incorrect on all counts as to why women prefer lesbian porn. Hetero women prefer lesbian porn because it is focused on female enjoyment rather than male. There's a lot of focus on oral. That's how most women orgasm. It's usually more sensual and certainly less degrading to women.

Hetero male/female porn is usually pretty disgusting from a female POV. Ugly men, rarely much foreplay or orL for the woman, a lot of times very degrading, humiliating, and sometimes abusive treatment of women. It's all focused on male pleasure.

100% truth.

Man has an A as he complains he doesn't get any/enough sex, understanding, variety or whatever at home.

Man proceeds to have an A and gets (typically) tons of sex/variety. Understanding, not so much, but, then again, I've never heard a man say that (not saying they don't, but it's just not one I've heard as a complaint about a W before).

Same as woman not wanting to feel used for sex in her marriage, as its not 'compensated for' in other areas such as H doing any share of housework or bringing home flowers, or telling her how wonderful she is. AP makes her feel good in many ways, so she doesn't just feel used for sex.

Woman has an A, man in the A does 0 housework, usually 0 flowers, and is, in fact, often using her "just for sex" when in fact, despite how she feels, I doubt many husbands are married to women they "just want to use for sex". It takes more than that to marry someone (not that it's not important, it is, very much so, but it's not "enough" by itself).

Do you see the lack of understanding here? It's like if men complained about "no sex" in a M and then proceeded to get into an A "for sex" with a nun (who, in fact, will not have sex with him and has made that 100% clear). Well, what the heck?! If you complaint (not you, the WS) is "not enough housework" then you haul off and have an A with someone who's gonna do 0, ZERO, housework?

I'm not saying male (or "for sex") A's are any better, in fact, they might be worse because they are so mercenary and, of course, people do actually get "more sex" from an A, so the repeat risk is, IMHO, higher. But they are understandable. Problem, not enough sex in the M. Possible solutions, talk about it (everyone tries this first), live with it (the "normal" response), have an A or get a D. And if you love your W and the life you've built together, getting a D seems unreasonable, so, you wind up on option 3 (have an A). It's NOT better, please, don't misunderstand me, and it's also NOT always (or perhaps even often) the low sex partner's fault that there's not as much sex as the high sex partner wants. But it's understandable. Why rob a bank? Because that's where the money is. Why have an A? Because that's where the "more sex"/kinky sex or just "new sex" is.

Everything coco said.

Hetero male/female porn is usually pretty disgusting from a female POV. Ugly men, rarely much foreplay or orL for the woman, a lot of times very degrading, humiliating, and sometimes abusive treatment of women. It's all focused on male pleasure.

^^ Especially this! I can't speak for all women, but this is why I get so triggered by porn.

Because

very degrading, humiliating, and sometimes abusive treatment of women

is something we see incredibly often in any porn we've watched.

Then add in:

It's all focused on male pleasure.

Which is pretty obvious because most of the acts being performed don't actually get women off IRL.

So then where do our minds logically go?

degradation, humiliation and *sometimes* even abuse = male pleasure.

Not ALL male pleasure. But at least some of the time. If not a good portion of the time. Judging by the amount of porn that one could easily find with one quick Google search of any derogatory sex act. There would not be a supply if there was not a demand.

Do you see the lack of understanding here? It's like if men complained about "no sex" in a M and then proceeded to get into an A "for sex" with a nun (who, in fact, will not have sex with him and has made that 100% clear). Well, what the heck?! If you complaint (not you, the WS) is "not enough housework" then you haul off and have an A with someone who's gonna do 0, ZERO, housework?

I get why you're confused RIO. The "for sex" A is a little more straightforward, so the logic is easier to follow. In my experience, men tend to seek the most straightforward answer that will give them the fastest results in that given moment, which is why the "for sex" A seems to be more common for them. I'm not having sex? Cool, I'll get it elsewhere.

But women think so much differently. I'm not wayward. But as a woman I can see how the sex "transaction" plays out in my mind, and I can directly relate it to a wayward thought process. Like what Hickoryapple wrote about not wanting to feel "used for sex." I know you don't get it, you've said you would LOVE to be "used for sex," but on the whole, most women just don't want that.

Imagine this scenario re: housework:

I am unhappy because my husband is not doing his fair share of the work around the house. I have a job and I work just as much as him. I contribute half of our joint expenses. And yet somehow I do the lion's share of the chores, arranging the kids' schedules for sports and doctors appointments, grocery shopping, making meals, staying on top of the kids' homework etc.

He has hinted to me that if we had more sex, maybe he would do more things around the house. That makes me feel like he sees my body as compensation for doing something that he should be contributing to half of anyway. Yes, I want more help around the house. But I don't want to give up my body to convince him to do those things. He should want to do them anyway, because he is just as much a part of this marriage as I am.

So for the faithful spouse, this is as far as it goes. They might withhold sex because of these feelings, they may even masturbate to compensate when they are horny but don't want to give in to the spouse on this because it feels "icky" to feel like it's a transaction. But they don't have an A.

But if I were to be the WW in your scenario who is upset with her BH for not doing housework, this would be my thought process after that:

I would rather go have sex because I "want" to, not because it is a transaction to get my husband to do something that I feel he should be doing anyway.

No, I would not be "getting" the thing that I am upset at my husband for not giving - the housework/help with the kids. But my husband has made it clear that my way of "getting" that thing is to use my body as a bargaining chip. I would rather use my body in my own way than for that.

So what I would be "getting" out of the A is not the direct thing I'm upset about, the housework. I am "getting" revenge for you not doing the thing I feel you should be doing. I am also "getting" the feeling that the AP just wants to have sex with me for me (as misguided as that is). It's back to wanting to have sex just because I want to, and not as a transaction to get something done that I feel my H should be doing anyway. Hell, she could feel unappreciated for all of the work she does, and feel like she "deserves" the attention, another completely misguided notion, but one many have fallen for before.

I'm not defending the wayward mindset at all. It's totally f&*!ed. A lot of men do it because they feel like they "deserve" it in some way too, and that's equally as messed up.

I guess I'm just saying the female perspective, whether wayward or faithful, is complicated. Much more complicated than "I'm having the A for sex."

I'll tell you - minus the A part, these are the exact feelings I had about my H when it came to the household stuff, and I'm the BS. If he told me that I could get him to do the household stuff by having sex with him, that was an instant non-starter. I did not feel comfortable with sex being a bargaining chip. I would have rather masturbated than to feel used like that. And ultimately, masturbating was the healthier choice rather than having an A. Communication would have been even better.

In both cases, the faithful wife, or the one who is thinking about having an A instead, the wife should be communicating these feelings with her husband better. But the person who chose the A picked a much "easier" way out in the short term because they just didn't want to deal with it.

And there are a ton of other reasons that someone might have an A, of course. This is just one very specific scenario.

So what I would be "getting" out of the A is not the direct thing I'm upset about, the housework. I am "getting" revenge for you not doing the thing I feel you should be doing. I am also "getting" the feeling that the AP just wants to have sex with me for me (as misguided as that is).

I feel like you're right, and certainly speaking for me, a lot of my W's A felt like "revenge" to me. And you're not misguided, in most cases, the AP does just want to have sex with you. But so does your H, and he's probably offering a lot more in return for that sex. But I've almost never had sex for a reason other than "me for me". I'm certainly not going to do it to get you to take the trash out!

RIO, you've never had sex for the other person? It's always all about you?

I think you understand on some level that there are differences in the way men and women think and view things. It seems, though, that you can't quite see that other people do not think like you. You continue to project your thoughts and wants onto others without hearing them telling you that you are wrong. You seem to dismiss what we women are telling you.

My fCH's A could've very well been partly revenge. I just posted that in a different thread. He's very passive aggressive. He decided that I didn't love him anymore. He thought I was cheating on him. He was mad at me for all k in ndsu of things I was completely unaware of because he never even tried to tell me. So, he found himself a girlfriend.

The point is that there are many reasons and justifications people come up with for cheating. Even men who say they are only in it for the sex most likely have other reasons. None of those reasons will ever make sense to a faithful partner.

I don't think there's anything wrong with porn. We watch porn together, we masturbate to it separately. Sound effects are nice :)

Porn is just a masturbatory aid. It's no big deal.

^^^^Yep, and std/sti's aren't a big deal either, according to you PSTI, so there's that. ^^^^^^ Did you even read WCE's post or are you just here to pontificate again?

edited: for clarity

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:01 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

Alcohol is no big deal either...unless you're life is negatively impacted by an alcoholic

** posting as a member **

T/J -

I was talking about the stats gathered through surveys and questionnaires. Those would be biased for many reasons. The anonymous internet stats are more compelling. How do they know if the person searching is male or female?

Thanks coco, for writing that. Win 10 basically require a login to MS's servers. We have multiple PCs but one logon ID. That's the easiest (by far) way to have the same 'experience' on multiple PCs. So all searches are done by me, male. So, how many couples use the same ID? How does that skew the stats?

If you want to cite a source on the web, it's easy. Ask the mods for permission to cite a URL, or just describe the source clearly enough (authors, title, publication, date should be enough) so that the source comes up, say, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in a search.

But that's only part of my objection to the post above my last one. Reread it. How much is backed up by good data? How easy is it to bring counter-arguments to your generalizations? Etc., etc., etc.

Hetero male/female porn is usually pretty disgusting from a female POV.

From my POV, it's extremely boring. During my W's A I found myself watching Internet porn. I couldn't figure out why I was spending time watching stuff that was so incredibly uninteresting. Making sex boring - that's quite an accomplishment. (Although maybe the issue is that watching a moving photo just isn't sex....)

End T/J

T/J

New research from the scientific journal Porn Studies is taking the internet by storm this weekend as it’s revealed a little discussed peculiarity of women’s pornography consumption habits. Specifically, that gay pornography is overwhelmingly the most preferred and watched genre of pornography available.

The study states that 82% of women prefer gay pornography to all others while 90% of the studies participants stated that they masturbated while viewing it. Of the study sample, only 53% watched lesbian themed pornography while 68% also watched heterosexual pornography.

From an article in Thought Catalog

Yeah, tbh, if I had to choose porn to watch, I would choose gay male porn. I have found it the most enjoyable for me to watch. end T/J