SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree with Robert22205https:

How do you get past the awful and demeaning words he used when you confronted him to blame you for everything going wrong in his life, for cheating, for losing his family? It was awful what he said and made you feel worse. He was seething with rage and hate for you. He needs to address this.

I am going to move on and will repair my marriage and enjoy my husband for the first time since I’ve known him treating me like he loves me. And talking to me. Etc. But just wanted to ask if I’m wrong to not believe this last thing. Come on, REALLY.?

I give you tons of credit for accepting this situation given all you now know about his double life and him having another woman he worshipped from afar, yet chose to "be" with you. Wow. That would knock me to my core.

I can only speculate on whether these two lovebirds had sex when they hooked up when you were out of town and he dumped off the kids. Ultimately it is your choice whether or not you believe him. This is a horrible revelation and I hope you have at least one person you trust that you can talk to about this.

[This message edited by psychmom at 8:03 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

I'm so sorry.

There's no way they didn't have sex. And it wasn't just that once.

Plus, I have a feeling there were many other affairs along the way.

He's putting on a good show now, but be very careful. He's putting on a show because he thinks it's the easiest way to just get you to accept what he has told you and go back to the way things were. He thinks it's an effective way to shut you up and stop you from asking questions. He knows he only has to put on this show for a few months and then he can get up to mischief again.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Honestly I feel utterly battered emotionally and mentally. The time since Christmas has been indescribable. There have even been a few times I just wanted a reset, I wasn’t suicidal just so freaking tired and in pain.

To address the things he said to me the other night, I haven’t forgotten them. They were nothing unusual. 20 years of him raging and hearing my faults. My appearance, my family, my achievements, my nerdiness, the ways I load the dishwasher, clean the house, drive, shovel the driveway, fold the laundry, my parenting, my movie choices, my personality, everything...all the time, nothing ever right. Nothing ever good enough. I started out defending myself and eventually you just give the hell up.

The 20 year girlfriend was not in a relationship with anyone else the ENTIRE time. She saw some men apparently, is about 53 and never been married. I figure she thought they were in one, which they were. They broke up in October when he again told her he loves her and is in love with me, kind of a weird backwards thing. I know he gave 100 excuses to her why he couldn’t leave me, none of which were remotely true. I actually think he did not want to leave me. Why would he? I handle everything and do everything.

It actually does not matter if they had sex once, never, 100 times. The 20 years of double life has negated all my marriage. All my memories, all my attempts at being good enough, my spidey sense feeling he wasn’t really present and that he hated me at times, all the times he ridiculed me and berated me both privately and to his friends and family about not trusting him. He made me feel crazy. Honestly, catching him on Christmas Eve, Dday 1 with the other ex was almost a relief. I wasn’t crazy. I was right. But this whole thing with the real OW my whole marriage is staggering in its impact. I am not sure what colour the sky is anymore.

How in the ever loving hell can someone be that cruel and deceitful, for 21 years to someone who loves them . How? How to look them in the eye? How to have sex? How to have the unmitigated gall to criticize and be so smug about everything when doing all that? I do not understand. The first affair discovery leveled me, took everything I had to claw my way clear enough to breathe only to be hit with a worse betrayal. Not clear yet.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 7:35 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

NMSB. That is it. Cruelty over 20 years of his double life just heard you down.

My H was only mean during his Affair and he blamed ME for his Affair. Like you I am very fit and still fit in my size 2 skinny jeans at my age (50s). His cheating was all my fault - he would love me to believe it.

Hahaha - ain’t gonna happen.

He chose to cheat - typical mid life crisis Affair.

He blamed me for his unhappiness- that I knew nothing about.

He denied a 4 year EA 15 years ago that I knew was happening. But he did admit it to the OW and that has caused more damage than his more recent Affair. He was an arrogant jerk at times. And I told him I believe he had more EAs than I know including one girl we had a two hour fight about going to her wedding. I think he had the hots for her but she did but have the hots for him at all. And when he told her in his “emotional breakthrough” that he cheated on me - she never spoke to him again.

I think she realized she was unwittingly more than a friend - his take on the friendship - not hers. She was an honest person.

So I know the Affair is not about me. Never was. I tried hard and did everything for him while he jetsetted all over the world.

Now it’s all about me. And he knows it. Because I reconciled ftom a place of strength and now call the shots. He wouldn’t dare cheat again b/c my post nup will leave him existing financially until my children are out of college. Just enough to get by.

I suggest you get a post nup NOW. Exclude assets from Bri g considered marital assets - your pension, your IRA, your bank accounts. Even if you have to pretend to R - and later D.

It will save you time and aggravation if you D. I did it. It is ironclad and drawn up by a lawyer. If I D him tomorrow our only joint assets are the home and his retirement and investment accounts. Mine are excluded.

You are not naive or stupid. I identify with you on varying levels. Like your H, my H did something incredibly cruel for years. We didn't deserve it and they certainly didn't deserve what we offer as a woman. I wish you alot of strength, you have a long journey ahead. Do what is best for you but take your time. It's alot to process. The emotional rollercoaster is REAL.

To address the things he said to me the other night, I haven’t forgotten them. They were nothing unusual. 20 years of him raging and hearing my faults. My appearance, my family, my achievements, my nerdiness, the ways I load the dishwasher, clean the house, drive, shovel the driveway, fold the laundry, my parenting, my movie choices, my personality, everything...all the time, nothing ever right. Nothing ever good enough. I started out defending myself and eventually you just give the hell up.

This is perhaps one of the saddest paragraphs I've ever read on SI.

Honey, I know that you are doubling down on saving your marriage and that you do not want to hear what I am about to say - but here goes.

You are deserving of so much more than a lifetime of abuse and lies. You are deserving of fidelity and respect. You should be cherished. You are worthy of great love.

Please be open to the idea that you can have a peaceful life. Please know that you are brave and strong and can make decisions that will be best for you and your growth and happiness.

Did he have sex with her - yeah, he probably did. But that is the issue on which you focus to keep you from looking at the overall alarming picture. This man has treated you abysmally for the entirety of your marriage. Dig deep and ask yourself if that is acceptable.

Ponder and pray about your decision to stay. I know it is terrifying - the thought of starting over. Really, I truly know (I left a 26 year marriage and I was in my 50's). But sweetie, moving forward you must become aware of your worth and value.

You deserve every good thing.

So you found out about the 20 year Affair because you caught him on another Affair.

What happened to that affair?

How can you know that besides the long A of 20 years there hasn't been more on the side?

And no Marriage Sex? What else is he hiding?

You said it all, you are 50 you do everything, you are an achiever, you still have many many years that you deserve to be with someone that loves you.

Why not be happy on your own or with someone who loves for the next 20 years? just not to "throw" that last 20 bad years?

Ask yourself this question - what will be different in the next 20 years if I remain married to him?

He will never change. 20 year affair? Yeah, he won't stop.

Do the 180 on him. Get into IC - for you. Stay strong -

You deserve so much more than this. (hugs)

I have recently had a long conversation with my sister who is one of two people I have told about this situation. My dad knows too and has been helpful to an extent. My sister is a serial cheater herself, always overlapping girlfriends, never alone. Her wife now was with my sister 2 years before her long term (10year) relationship ended. Her relationship now is nightmarish from an emotional perspective and she stays. I asked her what is wrong with us that we have made these choices in our personal lives and how she could have done what she did. My dad was a chronic cheater, my mom knew, one of the family stories I heard was he was late to my birth because he was with someone else. All sex workers and a few secretaries. My mom had a thirty year affair with her ex fiancée and after he died, had a torrid two year affair with someone who wotked with my dad. We heard all about it as kids and teenagers. I became ridiculously strict about lying and obviously my sister saw it as normal.

I am high achieving, ridiculously well read and educated, attractive, funny, loyal, a great mother, and I work so hard at everything. My husband has been telling me for our whole marriage that I scare the hell out of him, I don’t need him for a single thing. I have completely renovated the kitchen alone, moved twice with two kids under 4 (and I mean MOVED everything using sheer will and muscle strength), handle all the finances, house stuff, taxes, kid stuff, holidays, cooking (I was a professional chef for 15 years), cleaning, grass cutting etc so on. He has even come home from work at 5:00 and I was on the roof with a hammer removing the ice dams.

So why? Why put up with all this incredible betrayal? Why this man who was my first and only love? I always thought I was his only to find out now, she was. So why can I look at everything I learned, and there has been more, and still want to give him a chance to fix it? His long term OW seems to think “I should know” everything about the man I married now and was sending me pictures and information before I blocked her. It would appear she is pissed off now, even though they broke up in October 2018 and she is in a relationship, she found out he has been lying to her too all these years. About facts about me, reasons he couldn’t leave me, etc so on. She thought she was special and they were soulmates, and was a wee bit ticked when I told her about his OTHER ex from Christmas. THAT felt quite good to be honest, petty and childish but SO good.

My WH is happier than I’ve ever seen him. He told me there is an incredible weight off his shoulders because it is all over and he doesn’t have to lie and hide anymore. The poor dear was stressed to hell apparently leading his double life and now is set free. (Imagine how sarcastic I am here) On the other hand, I feel like a feral cat that someone is trying to tame, wary I will be hurt more (IF that is possible) but hopeful. Still can’t wear my wedding rings.

So, if anyone can figure out WTF is wrong with me, I am not a weak woman, I would appreciate it. I know there is more I don’t know and will never know, I know he can tell me until blue in the face that he didn’t mean it all the times he told her he loved her and made plans, but I don’t believe it. I think there were others, maybe ONS or bjs, something. Won’t ever know. I know he is emotionally abusive and knocks me down a peg whenever he feels inferior. I know I deserve better and someone who puts me first...or at least not third . I am basically alone in this because he will NOT tell his family unless they ask, “So, how have you and mrs. NMSB been, anyone cheat for twenty years? “ I want them to know because honestly their attitude for my whole marriage is that I am not good enough for him. That seems incredibly unfair somehow.

Is it possible to honestly and sincerely just be too freaking tired to deal? I am so tired. Dealing with his treatment for 20 years, nursing my mother for 7 months until a nightmarish death from lung cancer, catching him cheating with the LT OW ten years ago, losing a job, getting more jobs, working (working!) three or four jobs, losing over 250,000 on a house, caring for my dying father now for 1 1/2 years, finding all this out in the last 3 months. I am tired. I actually find all the attention and love he is heaping on me tiring as well when before this I would have been so grateful he was nice. Go figure. This is not a cop out. I know many of you will be disgusted because you all seem so strong and resolved. Cheating was always a dealbreaker for me so I am at a loss why I am not slinging his stuff out on the lawn. Sorry for the novel. I am just sad today, well every day.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 9:35 AM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

How in the ever loving hell can someone be that cruel and deceitful, for 21 years to someone who loves them . How? How to look them in the eye? How to have sex? How to have the unmitigated gall to criticize and be so smug about everything when doing all that? I do not understand. The first affair discovery leveled me, took everything I had to claw my way clear enough to breathe only to be hit with a worse betrayal.

I think this summizes the feelings anyone who deals with a LTA goes through perfectly. Ugh, I feel for you in ways that sadly I never could have before. I have asked myself those very same questions and my WH "only" did this to me for 1.5 years...

And I think you hit the nail on the head - who cares, like AT ALL if they had sex??? I mean aside from getting checked for STD's (which you should regardless of whether you believe him or not) why would that matter in the least??? 21 years??? Ugh - I feel terrible for you and your situation and I'm sure you've gotten a whole bunch of advice far more eloquent than mine.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:53 AM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

You are 100% right ThisIsSoLonely. I don’t actually care if they had sex. Everything else is worse. Sex is sex.

I was more thinking why wouldn’t he just spit this last bit of information out? It is the feeling of still being jerked around. Just tell me.

The lying, I love you’s To ANOTHER WOMAN while married to me, making little fantasy plans about their wonderful life, holding hands, cuddling, talking to her about everything and I only getting grunts and silence, cute endearments, THE LYING TO MY FACE, all worse than sex in my eyes.

All the evenings sitting across from me at dinner, watching me turn myself inside out for him, pathetic attempts to seduce my own husband, walking our dogs, doing household chores, watching our kids be born and grow...All. Those. Moments. He was in his mind with someone else. I’m not saying he doesn’t love me, strangely he keeps saying he is IN love with me but loved her. He told her the same thing. Isn’t that backwards from the usual scenario? Unfortunately all my moments in the last 20 years are tainted...everything tainted.

I am crushed and so so angry and sad.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 10:06 AM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

I think you are right that the sex is kinda irrelevant. The betrayal is there and maybe even worse, but that is up to you to decide.

My first DDay was over 13 years ago and I've been on this site ever since and have seen and heard a lot of stories of pain. The good advice I got then was to not make any hasty decisions, keep an open mind. The mistake I made was I went into R too soon, my ex was very remorseful and I wanted so much to repair our family. I swept a lot under the rug.

You're not naive and you're not stupid. You are hurt, abused and have been lied to. Give yourself a break and don't rush into anything, be open minded about everything including the truth and more discoveries coming down the pike.

Remember, actions speak louder than words, and you deserve to think about yourself and your future. What do You want? Will your husband be the one to provide it? Do you think you can live with it? I am a huge proponent of IC for both spouses but I usually advise to wait on Marriage counseling.

You have friends here that care, post and read as much as you can. I think a lot of us would say that this site has saved our lives, been the light in the darkness and our friend when we are alone. Glad you found us!

Take care of yourself!

(((NMSB))))

So why? Why put up with all this incredible betrayal?

Because you have a lifetime of being together and it's bizzare to break that bond, and habit of being together.

Because even still w/ all you are dealing with there are habits that just don't break overnight for most of us.

Because even though you are a super bright, strong, intelligent, successful, fierce woman, you still have an emotional connection to this man who has betrayed you horribly.

And you are absolutely correct that it isn't the sex that is the dealbreaker, it is the continued lies, it's the whole entire betrayal that was committed and for you maintained over many years. It takes time for your heart to catch up w/ reality.

In the meantime, see an attorney, learn your rights. I tell every single newbie here this, and as a successful woman who managed to R, doing this was one of the smartest best things I did for myself in this shit storm.

Figure out what your absolutes are, if you are done, and want to be done, great. Then do it.

If you want to try R then try it, but know that someone so entrenched in this behavior is not likely to be successful in stopping it, either w/ the OG AP or finding a new one. He has lived a double life essentially your entire relationship.

Since it takes time for your heart to catch up, and your head to stop spinning, you may want to start a list of your boundaries, and how you plan to react should he cross them again. Until he endures some real consequences of his actions he will not fully understand the damage he has caused.

Additionally he is someone that has been emotionally and verbally abusive, and it is tough to recognize that for what it is, and learn to change the direction of things when it happens. My H is a good man, but he has a sharp tongue and during his A he was abusive nothing I did was good enough or right. I was a bad mom, who didn't keep a clean house, that cooked unhealthy meals, and was lazy. (none of which was true all of which was untrue but he had to lash out and put me down to justify in his mind what he was doing). As someone who is a peacemaker and somewhat CoD prior to Dday I was the perfect victim to abuse, as I wanted nothing more than to make him happy. (I see that in you).

Keep reading and keep posting. We have walked this path. While each situation may be unique, cheaters tend to do the same things over and over and over. That's why we can predict with accuracy what will most likely happen moving forward, and that is why you need to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best, that way you are ready no matter what.

((((And Strength))))

You know, nothing like uninterrupted hours alone to get the brain running like a hamster on a wheel. Turning over every facet of what you know and what you do not. Trying to piece together your life in a way that is bearable and makes some sense.

Everything you all are saying is true. I will see a lawyer. There will be no surprises, I already know my financial, asset, etc. Position in and out. I know my WH is abusive some of the time, actually most of the time in the last 10 years but he also can be the guy I thought I married. My WH seems truly relieved and remorseful except on one or two points.

Number one:He does not want to continue to rehash everything and actually neither do I. Details are not going to make this extent of betrayal worse or better. BUT I feel if I DID need to continue to rehash and ask questions he should be willing to answer with no hesitation.

Number two: THE BIG ONE. He refuses to tell his parents or sister what he has done. He told his parents about D Day one on a very short conversation on Boxing Day that he got caught “talking” to an ex. Hmmm. Talking?! ...Sexting constantly, calls, dirty pictures, videos, masterbating together over the phone...ya, talking. And his parents said “well dear, it takes the two people in the marriage to force one person to cheat”

He will not tell anyone about the REAL affair.

I have this little voice in my head, well really freaking loud aggressive bullhorn of a voice, saying That is not fair. He has basically got away with this catastrophic lying repugnant double life at my expense and probably my kids’ expense with no real consequences. Yes! I know that is partially my fault because I have not dropped the hammer yet.

However, I want a full (not sexting details) admission to his family. No blaming me, no dodging the severity or length, no minimizing the impact. An open mature acknowledgement of his actions. I don’t know why I want it or feel I need it to move the F@#k on. But I do. I have not asked for anything else from him beyond don’t do it again and to be nice to me at this point. I think I have the right to ask this but he will not budge. When I mention it he gets angry and withdraws. And I can’t mention it or he will “rethink if he can do this”.

Uh.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 3:23 PM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

You cant attempt reconciliation with an unremorseful WS. It wont work.

You say he's been abusive, off and on, for 10 years. An affair is a form of abuse. So,no. He has been abusive for at least 20 years.

You have been traumatized. You're trying to process everything. You will need to ask questions for a very long time. It sounds like he expects you to rugsweep. Another sign of an unremorseful WS.

He refuses to admit his lies to his family. A family who clearly is no friend of the marriage. The standard advice here is the WS must NC people who aren't friends of the marriage. Family included.

It takes 3 to 5 to heal from this. Please don't rugsweep. It's a slow death.

Also, if he had sex with her DOES matter. Because he is still lying to you. Still protecting his secrets with OW. Trying to reconcile with a lying WS, will only get you a lying WS. There's more to not being wayward than just not cheating anymore.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:03 PM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

They were nothing unusual. 20 years of him raging and hearing my faults. My appearance, my family, my achievements, my nerdiness, the ways I load the dishwasher, clean the house, drive, shovel the driveway, fold the laundry, my parenting, my movie choices, my personality, everything...all the time, nothing ever right. Nothing ever good enough.

I guess you grew used to the abuse from this man and eventually believed you deserved it. Like the frog in the pan with the water getting slowly hotter to boiling point, Death by a thousand cuts, each cut seemingly not so harmful but the critical mass adds up to a deeply abusuve relationship. He is deeply narcissistic, solipsistic and entitled. You are presumably codependent to some degree, having accepted the verbal abuse over the years.

For me, the abuse is a far bigger issue than the 20 year affair, it being but a symptom of the abusive malaise inside him. I hope you will get help for this and read up about abusive relationships and the abuse cycle (switching between abuser and being mr nice guy, the hoovering part of the cycle to draw you back in).

It feels like it goes without saying that you deserve better.

But you deserve better. And need to start loving yourself better, as he can never do that for you. Please research abusive relationships so that you can see what you have been living all this time. Be clever and careful what you say to him now. Do not give him the knowledge and terminology to throw this all back at you and undermine and gaslight you further,

[This message edited by Edie at 5:55 AM, March 28th (Thursday)]

Emotional abuse, whether we are aware or not, does not make us our best self. I think this is why, pre-a, a lot of people hear about infidelity and say things like “well she was bitchy and critical, I see why he strayed.” How about the fact that she had this constNt hum of confusion and questions, was gaslit and reacted to how she was being treated? Her head and heart were aching and she had nothing left, and she didn’t know why.

Affairs are emotional abuse. I was a bitch. He told me I was nuts, delusional, yet left me with the kids and never checked in to make sure they were fed, bathed, etc. Never responded to texts or calls when he was with her. I was a shell, broken, and didn’t know why, since wh came home whistling smiling and behaving like a crazy manic happy clown. The message I got 24/7 was that I was the problem. I was on the floor of the shower vomiting and had no idea why. I mean, he was happy and I wasn’t, so what was wrong with me? I guarantee that my interactions with his family during that time confirmed to them what a horrible, snobby, ungrateful wife I was. It’s a horrible place to be - if I said I was unhappy, they looked at darling husband, smiling and charming everyone and thought, gee, he deserves a better wife, and look at mow, she appreciates him. Just thinking about it makes me want to run into the street scream8ng. We are put in a competition that has been rigged for us to lose no matter what, and we don’t even know the game is on. And the other parties in the game know they can only compete in a rigged game, because real life has shown them that they are losers, failures, cowards.

(hugs) they try to make us seem unstable when in reality they are the ones with the problem - and to make themselves feel better about their cheating, they in turn try to bring us down so they don't look like such a bad guy.

Don't give him the option of not telling his family. Tell them. Give details. That way he cannot hide what he did or tear you down any further. The more people you tell, the easier your burden becomes. Why should he get to hide his reactions while your grief, pain and embarrassment is prominent to everyone. Everyone will be asking "it was one time, how come you can't forgive him". WHY should you lie to people when he has been the liar for 20 years? Do not allow him to put you in this position any longer. What have you got to lose by being honest and truthful? In fact, I would not be surprised if they were not already aware and he doesn't want you to find out that last little bit of truth about him.

Tell them. Out him to the world. Then pack his crap up and let him go to that snake in the grass OW.

(hugs)