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I was up until almost 1:00 AM thinking about your post. I woke up intending to write a long list of the consequences you're heading towards at breakneck speed, and I discovered that ibonnie already wrote it. For BS and remorseful WS, this is like watching a runaway train with real, live people on board and being unable to stop it. We are haunted by knowing you may not hear what we're saying because you're too far gone in the fog to be willing to listen to it.

There is no happy ending for you and Robert. There just isn't. There are bad endings and terrible endings. Bad is all you can hope for, so there's the very real danger that you will figure you might as well go for terrible and double down on the PA. Don't. Do. It. Do not delude yourself that you get to have some alternate life where you and Robert exist in a little bubble, just for you two. Your husband knows. People at work probably know. His wife is going to know; if you keep this up, someone will hint, if not tell her outright.

I have been where you are, gradually pushing the envelope the tiniest bit at a time, so that things I would never have thought were ok became ok by degrees. When you met Robert, would you have been ok with the idea that you and this man would end up holding hands, caressing, sharing feelings for each other, taking about the need to protect your marriage? You'd probably have said there was zero risk of that happening. And yet, here you are. You're like the proverbial frog who's been put in a pot of cold water and doesn't realize it's slowly heating up. It's doomed by the time it realizes anything is seriously wrong. You are far closer to sex with this man now, and all the devastating results the ibonnie lists, than you were to holding hands with him when you started out.

This doesn't end with the two of you sharing one glorious night that you remember as friends for the rest of your lives. This ends with a text that you didn't see coming, where he tells you to fuck off forever because his children won't speak to him and his wife took pills and his friends have sided with her and his sister-in-law told him to find somewhere else to eat Thanksgiving dinner, because he sure as shit isn't welcome where he's eaten it for the last twenty years. Is he going to love you for that? Are they? You're the bitch who destroyed everything; you will never be anything else in his real world.

Wake up, dear God, please wake up and jump out of this pot.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 4:21 PM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

Inappropriate response

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:20 PM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

One last point to wedge in before I have to go into a meeting. I actually believe you about Robert being a decent man caught in an unforeseen attraction. It's entirely possible that the other posters are right, and he's playing you, but I'm giving you my advice based on the idea that you are correct. It DOES NOT MATTER. Neither spouse will be less devastated to know you betrayed them for love instead of a quick lay. Your kids won't decide it's all right that you're divorcing because Mommy deeply cared about the other man. HR won't care when they fire you both. You have to end this now. If he's a good man, that makes it ten times more important that you set him free from a future of self-hatred and remorse.

Duplicate post

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:31 AM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

Of course Robert is wonderful. You don't live with him. You two have been cheating with each other and who knows who else as "work husbands and wives" Which just equates to cake eating and cheating. You are both getting your egos fed by other people. Of course he is going to seem like a nice guy he is being pampered by multiple women. Nothing to be stressed out about or to deal with. Meanwhile, your husband is abandoned. Of course he is going to be stressed.

So, I see alot of what other people are doing and all that Nicholas Sparks bullshit being spewed. Where are the posts about you and what you are doing? What you are lacking in yourself? Confidence for one. You sound like you enjoy and want all that attention. Though you try to blameshift and gaslight that you have to behave that way due to "neanderthals". With the way your wrote you so not even regretful post. You like the men all fighting over you and wanting you.

The whole thing about how your husband has an explosive anger. Rewriting and blame shifting? Grasping at straws to justify cheating? I wonder what he would say in turn. Maybe my wife is parenting? Maybe she lets them get away with stuff all the time and doesn't parent to be their best friend instead? He has to tell them over and over again? Do you have any expectations and accountability for your children? You certainly have none for yourself.

Honestly, all I see is a cake eater that enjoys the attention from many men to validate her low self esteem.

Neither of you are decent people. A decent man doesn't cheat on his wife. He might have more class than the other "work husband's" you have. He isn't decent though. A decent woman doesn't flirt all the time. A decent woman wouldn't need that outside of their marriage and themselves. A decent woman wouldn't thrive on the validation of outsiders.

When push comes to shove and he has to choose between you and his wife. I wonder how quickly your "soulmate" from years of EA will begin to throw you under the bus and you will be seen as the work player.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 8:41 AM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

RSFM, I know I posted last night, but you're still on my mind today, and I hope you're still with us.

I know some of this advice might come across and snarky or mean or just plain wrong because we don't really know you or Robert or your betrayed husband, but I promise you that we do have you and your family's best interest at heart.

Part of me wonders if you posted this, hoping to be advised that clearly there is nothing you can do because your husband is a lout and Robert sounds wonderful, and you two are either meant to be together, or your "friendship" is completely okay to continue as is, as long as you don't kiss/have sex/make plans to officially leave your spouses. You would need to post on a support forum for other women/side chicks/affair partners to get that kind of feedback though.

Three things (again, pulled straight from the cheater's handbook) stuck out to me that I forgot to comment on last night --

1. Feeling like you've lost the "honeymoon phase" with your husband, and whether you can get it back. IMO, this is unrealistic. They call is a phase for a reason. And, in reality, the "honeymood phase" is really limerance/infatuation that (hopefully) turns into a deeper/less intense/more meaningful love. It's less about a feeling, and more a choice to take care of you partner and be good to each other.

When my WS and I started dating over a decade ago, we would end our dates with two hour makeout sessions in his car. Couldn't keep our hands off of each other. After everything we've been through, we still have great chemistry and amazing sex, but I can't fathom sitting in a car with him for two hours making out. I have two little kids at home (just like you do!) and it's unfortunately just not realistic to keep the honeymoon phase going years down the road when you have homework and bedtimes and playdates and all that fun (but exhausting!!) stuff that little kids entail.

My WS thought his AP (who was 10 years older, had an adult daughter and also acting somewhat like a mentor at work, introducing him to people and showing him the ropes because he was the new guy) was his best friend and soulmate. He ended his affair a year ago (after she physically assaulted him! She didn't want to hear about how depressed he was that I was leaving him and we were legally separating, because after all, he got her, so he should be happy even if it meant he only saw his kids 2x a week now as opposed to every day... but again, I digress) and now he looks back, is repulsed by his actions, and describes it as feeling like a crush in HS. Super intense, but in reality it was a fantasy. During his affair, he described his AP as this amazing, wonderful, caring person, that was so fun anf thoughtful. Now he looks back and realises she's a manipulative drunk. The life of the party, because that's all she has going on in her personal life, and so wonderful until she's perceived some slight against her, and then beware, because she's out to get you.

2. ILYBINILWY aka "I love you but I'm not in love with you." So, so, so many betrayed spouses on here get that speech, hence the abbreviation, because it's so common. Conveniently the WS never seems to realize this until they've fallen head over heels for their affair partner. Then they look back and realize they haven't been happy for weeks/months/years/the entire marriage, yada yada. It's funny though, how many wayward spouses suddenly fall back in love with their spouse when they get served with divorce papers and start seeing the reality of the situation they're in.

3.

It took quite a few STRESSFUL convos to fully come clean with my husband. I wasn’t fully honest at first and delayed telling him at all because I was honestly worried he may have a volatile reaction that could have a domino effect given his issues with anger.

This is called trickle truth. If you're not familiar with the phrase, google it. It is, without a doubt, one of THE most hurtful and destructive things you can do. Did you tell your husband about the hand holding, hugs and neck caresses? Since (no offense) your post has been so stereotypical, I'm going to wager a guess and say that you left those details out so you can say that you didn't want to hurt your husband more and/or you were afraid of his reaction. Which, interestingly, probably wasn't a consideration when it was happening, right?

What's so harmful about trickle truthing is that it's really continued lying and/or minimizing and/or gaslighting your spouse on details he probably already suspects. If and when you ever do tell the whole truth, any history of trickle truthing will mean that there will always be doubt that this is finally it -- the whole truth.

Read around on the wayward forum and you'll find posters saying things like, "I trickled truthed for 6 months/2 years/etc. Now I'm FINALLY being 100% honest. How can I make my BS believe me?" And unfortunately the advice is that there's nothing a former wayward can do other than be consistent going forward, because they've already proven themselves to be a repeated liar.

I hope we haven't scared you away. I do believe you're still deep in the "affair fog," but I have hope for you that you haven't completely blown up your entire life yet. However, you must start realizing how serious this situation is, and how right now you're the only one that can start making it better.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 1:14 PM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

No Stop sign so I'll chime in.

This is what I see from OP. Me Me Me Me Me, I I I I I.

How horrible is must be that your BS wants to buy you gifts and try to work it out by going to couples counseling. Poor whittle you. Work is stressful. Poor whittle you. Need someone to hold your hands through the stresses of work.

Let me see, how can I blame my BS. He has anger issues!!!! Nope, never hit me, never hit the kids, but sometimes raised his voice. But otherwise, loves his family and takes care of this kids, while handling business in a big stressful city. I bet your BS doesnt even have anger issues, and you've made that crap up as an excuse to give you permission for your behavior.

Pretty simple really. You no longer love him, you've told him as much. You've detached enough that you don't think it can come back. You see him in pain, and you just don't get why he's working hard to win you back. Its so repulsive that this good man would actually try to win you back, after you've cheated on him. It repulses you that he would try so hard to keep his wife and family together when you're just not worthy.

Give the guy a gift. Divorce him. He deserves better. That's what you can do now. Give him the gift of clarity so that he can walk away with dignity and be with someone who deserves him, and someone who actually loves him. I'm confident there are plenty of women out there in SF that would love to meet a man like your husband, a dependable stable father figure, middle class in a big city. That's what you can do next.

I am concerned, as well, that you posted expecting us to agree with you.

I'm pleading with you to check back in with us. For the sake of yourself, your children, but mostly your poor husband.

I'm probably shouting into the wind here, since we haven't heard from you since your first post, but in the fervent hope that you're still reading, please look at the following quotes, which appear in the sequence in which you wrote them.

I’ve felt Robert really “gets me” and I might be falling a bit

I can sense Robert might *want* more, and I’ve thought about it myself

I’ve told my husband that we’re just friends and nothing more, but inside I do have feelings for Robert that might not be practical but they’re still “there.” I don’t see Robert leaving his family for me, or me leaving my family for him, but sometimes it’s nice to be pursued and courted by a guy who isn’t my husband.

Against my instincts I eventually did admit what’s happening with Robert but stressed it’s NOT physical, and it’s not.

I also did have a good talk with Robert where I admitted I’ve developed feelings for him and he acknowledged he has feelings for me as well.

I don’t think Robert will cross any physical line with me nor I with him, although I’m positive we’ve both though about it at times, and I want my husband to trust me when I say that.

Your entire post is an example of trickle truth. You went from "I think I might be falling a bit" and "I can sense Robert might *want* more" to "I admitted I’ve developed feelings for him and he acknowledged he has feelings for me as well" and "I'm positive we've both thought about (crossing physical lines)." You progressed through this radical shift in perspective without appearing to even notice how much your story was changing. And your final assertion in that sequence was to state that you expect your husband to trust what you tell him.

Please, this is why you need to be here. You don't even realize you're doing it.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:04 PM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

You are already neck deep in an affair.

It will turn into a sexual affair soon.

Unles you cut off contact.

Like most in this phase you are on the slippery slope.

And like most I doubt you'll listen.

I probably would fall in love with Robert, with the way you've described him. You can convert this to an ode about Robert.

Seriously, if that is the fantasy you've built about him, I don't see there is any thing that can stop you from further getting deep into that rabbit hole.

But the best part is you have decided to seek advice at the second best time (the best time would have been before you spoke to Robert about your feelings). If you listen to the wise people here, you can still salvage your marriage and minimize the hurt that your BH will feel in days to come. Making your BH constantly wondering about what's happening between you two isn't going to be helpful at all. Because, one day he will stop wondering and start walking.

[This message edited by hadji at 2:25 AM, April 17th (Wednesday)]

Here is to hoping you have cut it all off with this man and you have chosen to stop being a cheater. Seriously though, if you are thinking this situation is unique or that the two of you are "soulmates" because you developed a work husband, you haven't. You have simply done what all have done when getting involved with co-workers. You chose to foster a destructive relationship in exclusion of your marriage where you promised to be faithful (remember that one) only because you spent more time with this man than your husband and only because you think he seems like a gentleman (till you are living with him all the time). There is nothing unique, special, or soul mate about it. There is a cheating manipulative man you spent more time around. If you leave your husband, you will spend all your time around Robert work/outside of work (doesn't sound very healthy to me or fun), that will eventually have the expectations and responsibilities that your husband has now.

BS's remember this is the Wayward forum. Rude comments are not allowed. If you cannot provide productive advice/support, then stay out of this forum.

I don’t think Robert will cross any physical line with me nor I with him, although I’m positive we’ve both though about it at times, and I want my husband to trust me when I say that.

You've already lied to your H. The trust he had is broken. What actions have you taken to restore trust? You don't get it back immediately once you break it. It takes years to regain trust. I get the impression you don't even respect your H anymore. If you are the bread winner who takes care of the household when you are working? Don't you think raising kids is at least as important as earning a paycheck ? Yet you admit his effort in this area is met with your criticism.

Your H is in a unwinnable situation here. Right now he is trying to nice you back and all it is doing is making you respect him even less. Once he sees this is not working he will do a 180 to the opposite. Would you prefer that to what he is doing ? Respect is a very big deal to most guys. It is a prerequisite to love. You are showing Robert more respect than your H right now. Think about that. What commitments has Robert made to you? Do you think that he would stand by you when the going got tough? Clearly he wouldn't. Look at what he is doing to his wife. Besides she could be a saint. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. People in A Lie. It is the defining characteristic of someone who has any type of A.

Would Robert support you if you lost your job or had a serious medical issue ? It sounds like your H would. Why isn't that "valuable," to you? I'd bet he meets dozens of other needs you have too.

WRT "marriage issues." Do you think outside of your emotional affair you've been a perfect wife ? Have you used your status as a bread winner to feel entitled and/or win arguments ? Do gifts that your H gives you lose any meaning ? If you are busying making money what does that require him to do to support you in that? He likely made sacrifices to get you where you are today. Think on it. If your H suddenly stopped doing that what would happen? Do you really want to find out once it is too late to fix this? Your H seems ok with that right now, but what happens if he changes his mind?

You both are in a M with issues. Every M has issues. Some individual and some shared, but did your H begin looking elsewhere? You did. Why ? Anything that includes your H, your M or Robert isn't the reason you were willing to make these choices that go against your values. Why did you cross that professional boundary? Despite what it could do your M, what would it do to your career? Would any of the guys you work with respect you more or less? This choice just made you a target of sorts for the wrong sort of guy. I don't really see any practical benefit. Do you ? Therein lies the problem.

Whatever you told yourself in your head to allow your integrity and character to be flexible with Robert doesn't justify the choices you've made do they ?

If you go to MC right now it will fail. You know why ? Your choice to have an A was not caused by M issues. This is a series of unilateral choices you made, knowing your H would never agree with them. You made them anyway. He never got to choose this. IC would be a much better choice at the moment. The A has to be addressed first. M issues will have to put on the back burner. Neither of you is in a stable enough place to work on the M. Plus from this point you have to get through the atonement phase before any M 2.0 can be negotiated. Anything less will be a zombie M where one or both of you choose an A again.

As you grew deeper and deeper into your A you couldn't handle the conflict. Google, " Cognitive Dissonance." To mitigate you knowing each choice you made was wrong you had to justify it to yourself. One way is to re-write your M to paint yourself as, "owed," this A. You felt entitled. It was harmless. You lied to yourself long before you lied to your H.

Even though you have not crossed the line into the physcial space I cannot impress upon you just how damaging these choices are. Not only to your H, your M, your kids, but to you personally.

Look, I know people can come back from this. I witnessed my W do it first hand. It is very hard work. Are you willing to face the consequences and responsibility reconciliation requires? Be brutally honest with yourself here. Brutually honest.

Lastly let me leave with this. If Robert is such a stand up guy, why would he get this close to a M'd woman while he himself is M'd? Do you think he has been 100% honest with his wife? If he can lie to his W don't you think it is possible he could lie to you too? You only see each other at your best. You literally are both hiding the darker and less desirable parts of yourselves. You are making direct comparisons to your H without all of the information about Robert. Your H will lose 100 % of time. You have a big data gap.

Until you are honest with yourself your M has no chance of surviving let alone improving. It is going require you to be accountable in thought and action. Further any contact with Robert is not going to end well. Your limerence will drive you deeper and deeper into this A. Google Limerence too. No long term M can compete with limerence. Further it is only a matter of time before the "feel good hormones" your brain is swimming in begin to lose their effectiveness. How do you get that back? You escalate it. What is the next boundary you will cross to get that fix again ?

IC right now is the best path for each of you. R takes 2-5 years if you honestly work at it. Is this something you really want for the right reasons? Avoiding a D is not a "good" reason.

Just being honest, it sounds if you want everything as it was before and that is just not possible. I know I sound a little harsh and I don't intend it to be. I just see you headed in a very bad direction and I want you to stop before it becomes worse.

My W had an EA that led to a PA. I see you at a point where the damage can stop and you can begin to heal. You have no idea how much work my W had to put in just to get back to normal. Each day your are in contact with Robert you move closer to an even uglier end. At some point the choices that you can make, today, will cease to exist.

Be on the lookout for your husband to wise up and implement the '180'.

Starts going to the gym.

Starts shredding it at work.

Starts increasing the quality of time he spends with the kids.

Starts spending the remainder of his time in other worthwhile pursuits.

Starts to attract attention from other females because of these improvements.

You will finally have that 'space' that you so richly desire and think you deserve...but I don't think you are going to like it.

Try giving your husband a little respect.

I debated responding for a long time. Basically to restrain myself. But I'll keep it brief and within guidelines.

You asked "What do I do now"?

STOP IT! Just stop it. NO MORE CONTACT. Nothing. No working together. No groups together. No events together. No social media. No texts/calls/messages. No thoughts. Nothing. At all.

Turn your time, effort and energy on your marriage and family.

If you aren't willing to do all of that (honestly and with respect your excuses listed are just that - lame a** excuses), take a long look in the mirror and let them go.

[This message edited by Chaos at 8:37 AM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

Your post was very upsetting.

Robert is unicorns and rainbows. He would nver do anything wrong. Right?

Your husband on the other hand is crap. He doesn't deserve the truth from you. You are still lying to protect a relationship with Robert.

You husband asked that you have no contact with Robert outside work and you will not agree to that.

Just divorce your poor husband. You have already left the marriage.

“On the homefront, My husband has unraveled. He has skipped work a few times since “the talk”, gets up at weird hours of the night to pace around or just stare off into space, and has stopped eating regular or full meals.”

There’s a word for that- PTSD. Google images of the young men and women this nation has sent to kill and die over the past century suffering similarly. And then focus on the fact that we as WS WILLINGLY INFLICTED this same degree of psychic trauma to a person we swore on a very profound level to honor and respect. (Need to remember that this was a decision, not something that happened)This in and of itself won’t bring you to remorse. But maybe a little perspective on why your BS behaves now as he does. To complete the parallel, our servicemembers look this way because they have dramatically experienced sudden, violent death firsthand, and your BS has now seen the same.

[This message edited by JBWD at 2:05 PM, April 28th (Sunday)]

I do believe she has blown this popsicle stand.

Ummmm.... put yourself in robert’s wife’s shoes. How would you feel? It’s really that simple. It’s the golden rule, treat others how you want to be treated. If that isn’t enough to sway your path, just consider, you’ll always be known by the women in the office, and the wives of the men, as a chick who slept her way through the job. Any success you’ve attained on your own merits would always be able to be looked at skeptically by serious professionals. “Did she really do good on that project or deserve the promotion, or did she just deep throat bob?”