SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You've said several things your husband may say/ask that would end your love for your husband.

How do you think your affair, the lying, and sharing yourself,physically, with another man affected your husband's love for you?

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:43 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

You have no idea how much he is sacrificing. For you. Because he loves you. Because he doesn't want to give up 50% of his time with his children.

What sacrifices are you making for him?

What are you doing to become a safe partner for him?

What are you doing to make him feel loved? Secure?

[This message edited by Jorge at 8:10 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

Time to fade away from this discussion.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 1:36 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

How do you think your affair, the lying, and sharing yourself,physically, with another man affected your husband's love for you?

Which is why I said I would respect and empathize with his position if it were that he lost his love for me. That's not my decision to make. It's his.

If he lost his love for me that would settle it, wouldn't it? No pony show would change that. I am willing to put the work into long term changes that help us grow as people and parents.

That doesn't mean I'm not willing to put work in or have sympathy for his hurt. All i've been saying is that this is not unlimited and does not extend to sacrifices which would serve nobody.

one of the reasons for your affair with another man, is related to his inadequacy as a sexual partner. Or, another way to say it, you outsource getting your sexual fulfillment with another man, because he isn't capable enough to get the job done to your satisfactory

This is actually pretty much the only thing he's interested in. He hasn't even mentioned my sister or best friend once.

I didnt ask,or suggest, if he had lost his love for you. I asked you how you think your affair,lies,and you having sex with another man affected his love for you.

You are so busy being defensive, you're not really reading my questions.

I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to get you to put yourself in his shoes. How do you think HE feels? Not how you would feel if he did it to you. How do you think this has affected him? How do you think it has affected his love for you?

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:18 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

I know how it made him feel. He's embarrassed, he feels emasculated and insecure.

It really hurts me to even type that. I know how bad I fucked up. I really do. That's why I came here, to see if anyone got past those feelings, but I suppose I didn't word it correctly. It's really hard to express how bad I feel about making him feel that way.

Why is it hard?

Why did you cheat?

I know it must be hard. Painful. Growth always is.

Because I do love him. That's why it's hard. Nobody believes me but I do.

I didn't cheat for any one reason. It was my vanity, it was a mid-life crisis, it was bad timing and it was my weakness of character. All those things and still I don't know. I wanted to have sex with the other guy too. Ok? I did. He's not perfect, but he's loving and loyal and I do like what we do in bed. I haven't claimed to be a good person once in this monstrosity of a thread. I know I'm not.

As for what I am doing, I'm being open and honest. I'm working on some of the sexual issues we have, and that's not to be brushed off as unimportant, it's a big deal to him. And I'm willing to be his partner and to share in life, in the successes of our children and in growing old together.

These are, or should be, elements of any good marriage that has not been touched by infidelity. Not one of them is a self-reflective effort at identifying the brokenness in you that allowed you to cheat. I'm getting the impression that this is because you do not believe anything in you is broken. You continue to describe the emotions resulting from your infidelity (both his and yours) as "discomfort." This is so radically unusual I would suspect some kind of spectrum disorder was at work, such as Asperger's, but then you said you would literally kill someone who stood you up for prom and called that behavior abusive, so clearly you are capable of strong emotion. It's only your marriage that you regard with this cost-benefit analysis: if he wanted this, I would not be attracted to him anymore, my fault, divorce, QED.

Maybe you're in shock? You do remind me a bit of how my MIL acted after my FIL died suddenly after 47 years of marriage. She was very practical, donating clothes, getting a real estate agent, having brief bursts of grief and then getting back to the business at hand. The volcanic grief took hold later.

What, if anything (and I'm starting to feel obtuse for believing there will be an answer to this) are you planning or even willing to do that is a significant sacrifice for you, to make him feel more safe and loved?

As for what I am doing, As for what I am doing, I'm being open and honest.. I'm working on some of the sexual issues we have, and that's not to be brushed off as unimportant, it's a big deal to him. And I'm willing to be his partner and to share in life, in the successes of our children and in growing old together.

You just described the minimum expectations for a marriage. You don’t get points for being open and honest, normal functional people are open and honest. You’re willing to be his partner and share his life? Well how very big of you. You sure are going the extra mile to prove how remorseful you are.

I would say it was surprising how intentionally obtuse you were being if it wasn’t for the fact that I have been here long enough to see this same exact conversation happen over and over again. So no, not surprising, kind of typical wayward dysfunctional thinking.

You keep speaking about absolutely any kind of sacrifice or compromise on your part as some sort of draconian punishment. Oh, you follow it up with some reasonable sounding concession about how you are to blame and how you love him and you are sorry and it’s s real bummer if he can’t get over it sure. But when it gets right down to it you look at any kind of potential consequence of your actions consequences that would be of your own making through your own thoughtless behavior mind you, as some sort of unreasonable punishment intended solely to make you miserable. Rather than some simple concrete steps that you could consider taking in order to show your husband that, despite the evidence of your adulterous actions, you do actually love him and have concerns for his feelings. If you think that simply meeting the minimum expectations any married person should be expected to meet is going to accomplish that you are seriously deluding yourself.

I said, (if you had bothered to read the text that you yourself quoted,) that I don’t think you necessarily have to cut people out of your life. But you do need to be able to acknowledge why it may potentially be a problem and figure out a way to address it.

What might that look like? I can’t say. Maybe your sister and BFF might need to find a way to reconcile with you husband themselves. I’m sure an acknowledgment, an apology and a show of support for the marriage might go a long way. Or would even that be some kind of Machiavellian torture technique design solely to make you miserable?

As near as I can tell from what you are writing it sounds like, in your mind at least, all of the work of dealing with fallout of your behavior falls square on your BH’s shoulders.

He needs to be able to get over it.

He needs to compromise.

He needs to not be “paranoid”

He needs to keep his anger and emotions in check

He needs to simply “suck up” the humiliation and pain you have caused him and move the fuck on already.

And you? You need to do what? Not have sex with other men? Be honest? Pretty low bar. Nice arrangement for you.

Your sense of entitlement is painfully obvious.

But like I said, this thread has happened here over and over and over again. Some of those WS’ stormed off in a huff but a whole lot of them managed to pull out of the nose dive in time to salvage something. So there is still hope. That’s why the people here keep on trying. They don’t have any other motivation.

One more thing and then I’m going to leave this to more articulate members than me.... You think you have empathy for your BH? Sister you aren’t even close yet. You couldn’t possibly at this early on. He doesn’t even understand the full extent of this shit yet. The realizations of the full weight of infidelity unfold slowly over time like some monsterous poisonous flower. It takes time to reach its full bloom.

Believe me, when you get to real empathy, if you get to real empathy, you will know it. You’ll know it because it will hit you so hard it will kick you off your feet, it will knock the wind out of you. Real empathy will leave you aghast at the damage you have wrought. You will be horrified by what you have done.

We’ve seen that before too.

And if you do ever get there? We will still be here to help you and to put you back on your feet. Cause that is what SI does, over and over again.

Keep coming back it works if you work it.

HT

Hi VE, even as a betrayed spouse I can feel your conflict. Perhaps your feelings of defensiveness stem from your subconscious need to shield yourself from overwhelming guilt? I could be way off base but your participation on this thread speaks to a desire to deal with this guilt and hopefully help your spouse.

I think your spouse could really use your friendship and empathy to help him through this trauma that you thrust him into. I suspect he is still in shock and you could really help him by letting him dictate his needs to you. It seems like you are trying to dictate for him. If at some point you find these needs too onerous for you, you will both have to re-access your marriage. Best wishes for you both

I didn't cheat for any one reason. It was my vanity, it was a mid-life crisis, it was bad timing and it was my weakness of character. All those things and still I don't know. I wanted to have sex with the other guy too. Ok? I did. He's not perfect, but he's loving and loyal and I do like what we do in bed.

Just to make sure I'm not misreading this... the loving, loyal guy that you enjoy in bed (in the present tense) is your BH? Or the AP?

That's why I came here, to see if anyone got past those feelings,

Quite a few here have "got past those feelings". There is hundreds of years of collective experience here. That collective experience is telling you things you don't want to hear.

There is no magic bullet that enable a couple to "get past" a LTA. There is a process many couples here have gone through to stay together. It takes years of patient, diligent, humble effort by the WW, which by the tone of your posts you do not have in you. It takes true empathy, which you lack. Mostly, it takes deep, true love for your BH, which, by reading your posts, you do not have.

The totality of your posts, quite frankly, they sound like D is where you want to end up, where you wanted to end up even when you were in your A. Why don't you do your passive, pick-me-dance BH a favor and divorce him?

Because I do love him. That's why it's hard. Nobody believes me but I do.

Nobody believes you because your posts drip with contempt for him. Because your posts reek of entitled solipsism. Because you do nothing but draw lines in the sand and say "cross this and it's D time", where your lines are miles on the WW side of what is normal for R in most cases.

Honestly, the best thing you could do for your marriage right now is show this thread to your BH, tell him it's you, and let him read it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:55 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

The BBF and sister nonsense has gotten way out of hand. As I mentioned, he's never even hinted that either one is a problem for him. I've said it enough times. As for what I would hypothetically have an issue with if it ever became one, what's the difference? It's not an issue.

He hasn't been paranoid, he hasn't thrown temper tantrums and he hasn't done pretty much 90% of the things people are assuming he's done. And I haven't once demanded that he do anything. This was all just an off-handed remark someone made about having non-contact with people who knew. My husband has NEVER come close to requesting this and there really isn't a single chance he would.

There is nothing to reconcile between them because he's not mad at them. He's seen them both regularly without issue through-out this. I don't even know why I entertained this line of thought. Likely just avoiding the real issues.

I get it a lot of you have been hurt by someone like me and you want to put me in my place. But I really have mentioned multiple times that he's never said a word against my sister.

Just to make sure I'm not misreading this... the loving, loyal guy that you enjoy in bed (in the present tense) is your BH? Or the AP?

I was talking about my husband.

When I had an affair I didn't expect him to find out about it. I convinced myself that what he doesn't know won't hurt him. I didn't do it in an attempt to manipulate him.

This is what we BS' refer to as the "cheater handbook". Of COURSE you never thought he'd find out. NO ONE WHO CHEATS EVER DOES! But yet, here you are.

I'm curious - other than SI, your sister & your BFF (and of course the AP), who have you talked to about your A? Have any of them had the experience of being a WS? or a BS? I'm assuming - perhaps incorrectly - the answer is no (other than your AP). If i'm wrong, I apologize. But if I'm correct, they why on earth are you so convinced that all the folks who are posting on this thread are so absolutely wrong when it comes to infidelity? To the hurt your BH may feel (now or in the future)? Why are you so certain that none of the concerns expressed here have nothing to do with your situation?

I can't speak for others, but when I'm in a new situation or learning something for the first time, I take heed of the experiences of those who have come before me. We learn to drive not by getting into a car and going - but by being guided by someone else. Someone who can tell us how to use a clutch and shift gears. Who can describe the feeling of merging into a highway full of traffic. Not so they can do it FOR us, but so that we can learn from their experience and wisdom and then figure out what works best for us as we begin our own journeys.

Yet every time the folks here (with a collective of dozens [if not hundreds] of years experience in infidelity recovery - as a WS or BS) post with concerns or recommendations, you basically say that we don't know what we are talking about and that none of this will happen to you. I suspect that if you'd been asked five years ago if you'd have an affair you'd have said "never". Same thing for your BH. Yet here you are. It did happen.

You are in a car with no driving experience, but you do have a ton of folks trying to help you turn on the ignition and learn how the gas, clutch, brakes, and stick work. We all have different techniques and ways to explain how to drive this car, and some methods may work better for you than others. But if you read this thread, there are some pretty consistent themes said in myriad ways.

You can either open your heart and your mind to the comments, or you can continue to "defend" yourself, backed up with some (I believe pretty weak) arguments / reasons why you are right and we are all - collectively - wrong. Why all of the "experienced drivers" of infidelity are clueless about how to start and continue the journey. Maybe you will figure it out on your own. Maybe not. But for the life of me, I cannot understand why one would be so adamant about going it alone.

I wish you well.

Can you describe what you believe a successful reconciliation looks like to you? What does that mean for you? What does the work look like?

How were you able to justify that your affair was a better option than divorce? Dig deeper than a mid-life crisis. What did you tell yourself when you crossed boundaries?

How do you move forward in order to become a safe person? What does that look like for you?

It's successful to me if we are better able to communicate by the end. Things weren't always perfect and he shut me out at times too. I can be passive aggressive and he sometimes just avoids. I'm not as concerned about what it looks like as what it feels like. I want to feel good about us. I don't have the right to want anything anymore according to most here, but that's what I want. Work involves a commitment and the will to apply it even in the lulls. Accept that malaise is part of life sometimes and work to make the bad times tolerable and the good times the best. Work involves a joint effort to raise our children well and compromise when we have a different idea of what well means. Most of all support each other in all of this.

I seriously told myself it would just be one time, then it became two and so on. I told myself that I'd regret it if I didn't take a risk and that I hadnt taken a risk in so long. I was charmed by him too, I was attracted to him and he treated me like I was a person I remembered being years ago. Only I wasnt that person and I shouldnt have wanted to be again. I'm not going to pretend that I didn't like him, I did like him. We had a relationship. I can't just say we didn't because it was illicit.

Acceptance is the key in my mind. I need to find acceptance. This really is about myself, I'm not sure how else to say it because it is self acceptance that I need. It's not something anyone can just give me or tell me to have. There are things I live about myself and other things I need to accept. I realize that my husband was the victim but the affair was not about him. It was selfish and horrible and we are having problems. Getting past this for me means getting past it. Not finding out what the appropriate price it is for me to pay. If we get into that nobody will win.

I am hurting really bad right now. I'm not sleeping well and I'm feeling a great deal of despair. Not eating well either. Arguing nonsense about my sister to people who aren't even reading my responses. I'm losing my mind really. I could actually use my sister right now but I made a promise to keep a lid on it.

One thing I can't see is being in a marriage where I don't matter. That's all i've really been saying here and it gets twisted into "you think you're the only one who matters". That true BS.

Perhaps if you'd actually open your heart, you'd realize that the reason your BH has been so avoidant for so long is because you've trampled him in so many ways for so long.

“I don’t expect him to ever like that another man touched me in that way, but he does have to come to terms with it.

That is probably one of the most shameful and unapologetic things I've ever read on this forum.

Absolutely disgraceful way of looking at your despicable behavior.

On the plus side, my WW looks amazing in comparison to your utter lack of care, so I guess I should thank you.

On the plus side, my WW looks amazing in comparison to your utter lack of care, so I guess I should thank you.

VE's total lack of empathy reminds me very much of my exWW, and makes me so glad I burned it all down on DDay. I've honestly never seen a more openly callous, selfish, uncaring WS on this site before. Even the foggiest ones usually express some concern about how their BS feels and what they can do to help, but this one is all about how she can make herself feel better and has made it very clear she's going to have R entirely her own terms and her BH can go to hell if he doesn't like it. Fortunately for her, she seems to have married a man with no spine who will let her have everything her way.

[This message edited by firenze at 11:25 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]