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I asked my husband of 11 years (together for 16) for a separation a few weeks ago due his heavy drinking and the impact it was having on the family. The tuning point was when he came home in the morning after a bender, passed out on the couch and wet his pants. My daughter found him. He was incoherent and babbling. I had also started developing anxiety every time he went out and needed pills to calm me and help me sleep. I never knew what state he would come home in and was worried about the impact on our children. We discussed it and agreed it would be a 6 month trial separation and in the meantime he would see a counselor individually and we would both go to couples counseling. He said he wanted to get the marriage back on track and would work on it. He moved out into an apartment nearby but still came back regularly to see the kids. One night he left his work phone behind. I’m not sure why I did this (I have never done so before) but I started snooping through his phone - starting with whatsapp. I found some messages to a group of his friends announcing the separation and saying something along the lines of ‘he couldn’t wait to go on Tinder for a r**t.’ There were also some other messages which I felt humiliated me in front of people I’ve known for a long time and I was extremely hurt reading them. I then went through his text messages and found an SMS to verify his Tinder account, it had been set up not long after I asked him for the separation, but before he moved out. I couldn’t locate the app on the phone, so I searched previously installed apps and couldn’t believe my eyes. Turns out he had installed Tinder and several other dating apps, all on different dates, about 3 years ago. When my youngest child was still a baby. My heart dropped and I felt physically sick, my hands started shaking. I didn’t want to believe it. I took photos of all the evidence. I then asked him out of the blue a couple days later whether he had ever used Tinder but he flatly denied it. I asked again on another day and he questioned why I was asking him this. I then produced print outs of all the evidence and showed him. He looked at it and laughed. He admitted installing them but said it was nothing, he was just having a browse and he didn’t contact anyone let alone meet up. In terms of the whatsapp messages, he said this is the way boys talk to each other (he is 41) and I shouldn’t be reading them anyway. I told him it was over, I had no interest in staying with a liar and a cheater. He continued arguing about it and then started blaming me, saying he’d done it because I didn’t pay him enough attention and he needed an ego boost. He wanted to see how many swipes he would get. The thing is I have always paid my husband a lot of attention, but didn’t receive much in return. He has a very low sex drive due to performance issues, he can’t really have sex without taking a pill. My advances were rejected over the years (sometimes he would be downright hostile if I attempted to initiate) so I basically gave up trying after the birth of my second child. I didn’t bother initiating anymore and plus I was always so tired after working long hours, running the household and caring for 2 small kids. Is this why he went on the dating sites? Do you think he is telling the truth when he says he just looked at the apps but didn’t message anyone? My husband has just left to go on a boys trip for 10 days, leaving me to deal with this on my own. I am devastated and feel like our whole relationship is a lie. He travels for work a lot plus goes out drinking late with the boys - I am wondering whether he has been using these opportunities to cheat. I just don’t trust him anymore. I also checked his bag that he had packed for the boys trip and discovered he’d packed his Cialis so he is obviously intending to have sex while away. I took them out without his knowledge and hid them, it’s not like he will be able to ask me about it! Desperately seeking advice! After reading some of the stories on this site I feel like this is much lower down the scale of betrayal but I don’t know if there is more to the story. My head tells me where there is smoke there is fire. My heart wants to believe him. I also suspect he has no intention of getting the marriage back on track but is using the separation as an opportunity to sleep around. If his intentions were clear I would have no issues with him sleeping with other people while separated, it’s more the betrayal and the lies I am finding difficult to handle. Also I will point out that he cheated on his long term ex (multiple times) but I don’t know if that is relevant, he was young and unmarried at the time.

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Oh boy is this a mess.

He’s cheated and lied and it’s gone on far longer than you knew.

Those are the facts.

I suggest you get yourself some professional counseling b/c you are dealing with so many issues. His drinking is one. Lying and continued cheating. Plus the long term impact of no sex with you but he appears to have sex with others at Will.

Props on the taking and hiding his performance drugs. Love it!!!

Hi, Dazy19, and welcome to SI.

My situation is very similar to yours. I knew that my WH was had substance abuse problems, and much like you, I never went through his phone. One night I did, and I, too, found dating apps and social media accounts for hookup sites.

My WH said all the same things yours did, including blaming me for not giving him enough attention. And, of course, how dare I be so untrusting and look in his phone.

I wanted to believe him, but my gut was screaming that there was more. And low and behold, he was lying.

Yes, he had cheated. Many times over the previous three years.

Like me, you probably only found the tip of the iceberg.

My point is that you're WH is like 99% of all Waywards out there. He's going to lie, gaslight, blameshift, deflect, manipulate, and cover his ass. He's not going to suddenly develop character. And he's not going to suddenly stop drinking.

The process of R is a long, hard road, certainly not for the faint of heart. Neither is the process of gaining sobriety.

The question you need to ask yourself is are you strong enough to deal with his crazy for years, and do you even want to?

A year and a half out, I'm healing, but that's due more to my IC than anything else. And I still wonder at least once a day (some days even more) if this was a dealbreaker.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you well on your healing journey.

Look he's an alcoholic and a cheater. Trust your gut. He had no intention of changing anything. You are better off without him.

He's just in the self preservation mode and will promise anything.

From reading your post if you stay in this it sounds like a never ending struggle with a cheating drunk.

Get out now while you can still make a good life. It won't be with him.

You wanna live on hopium waiting on that fairy tale ending that will probably never come then wake up when you're to old to make it happen?

Contrary to popular opinion on here of taking your time, etc, etc you know enough now. Make the decision for you and your kids and dump his worthless ass or you'll pay the consequences dearly as well as your kids.

The only change he's capable of is temporary to draw you back in.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:44 PM, May 18th (Saturday)]

Your drunk, alcoholic WH is the loser in all of this. Dump his ass ASAP. If you want any chance of change in him, you need to act hard and fast. I'm very familiar with this lifestyle you are describing here (except my WH didn't go on the dating sites though but he did do his own damage).

Check out Alanon, IC for yourself. Get support. Find a sponsor through Alanon. I had several.

If I didn't stand up and say enough, I am done with this, I would still be living in this type of turmoil you are describing.

You've come to an awesome place for support. Keep coming back and keep reaching out. You will learn so much and learn new skills to deal with this awful situation you are in. And remember, your kid's esp. need you to be strong. You've got this!

Strength it is tough! There is no hard evidence for actual cheating, while it all sounds bad it may also be just his bad way of coping with things. Sure, he takes the pills, but it could be ego defense and not for actual use as his wife has just kicked him out of the house! You may want to know more about his psychology and yours, why is he a heavy drinker and not in IC?, does he truly want to improve things and does he feel rejected?, are the dating apps really only for validation?, honest communication and understanding are critical as well as agreements (no cheating at all, also not during trial period). Sure, keep alert for evidence that he is cheating on you, and deal with any evidence appropriately, but after reading your story this is my thought on the issue. Best wishes & strength.

(((Dazy19))) Please use the resources of this site and start to read. In the yellow box there is the healing library. On top of this forum is the Tactical Primer. Read.... knowledge is power.

Please get screened for STD, make sure that you eat and stay hydrated. Seek counseling and start to get your ducks in a row.

You can't change him ....only your reaction to him.

Remember you did nothing to deserve this. His actions are all on him. Go back and look at your post. This is your life. A husband that abuses alcohol, an absent husband who focuses only on his needs and wants. A man who says he want to get his marriage back on track but is on dating sites and has not gone for help (IC or AA) but has the time to go on a 10 day boy trip.

Please click on the links below:

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Before you say reconcile...Recover!

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=561390

For the newly betrayed

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=535178

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Codependency in the Marriage: A BS’s common mistake

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443

My 10,000th post - You Are Going To Be Ok

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502703

Another Great Post for Newbies to read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=532395

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with your WS:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

Calling all BSs...:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479

Choosing an IC/MC:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948

I hope you continue to read and post here. This is a long journey. There is no easy fix.....no magic cure. You have to protect yourself and your children.

I wish you strength.

What you already know is damning enough. You've had to put him out of the house because of his drinking, but where are his efforts to stop drinking? He agreed to use this time apart to work on the marriage. But he's been downloading dating apps and he's on a boys' trip thinking he's got a pocketful of Cialis, while you're left taking care of the children and household on your own. How is any of that serving your marriage? He's not holding up his end of the agreement. Instead, he's using this time apart to act like a carefree bachelor at your expense.

I think you're completely within your rights to decide you've had enough and file. It's just not possible to reconcile a marriage on your own. It takes two.

The booze is a dealbreaker. Unless he quits and does AA and IC, he will get worse. I would leave. See what he does. It’s up to HIM.

I agree with Katie and CT. You kicked him out because he's an alcoholic. He's lost as a good H because he's an alcoholic. Does it really matter whether he cheats or not, too?

I suggest reading about the 'Drama Triangle.' If you search on 'karpman drama triangle,' you'll find Steve Karpman's website - it's highly commercialized, but if you look carefully, you'll find links to some very good free explanations. I mention Karpman because he's the guy who first documented the Drama Triangle, and he observed it in alcoholics and their families.

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

Thanks for all your responses. I have re-read them multiple times. I have an appointment with a counselor this evening. My husband has sent me some messages since saying he is remorseful and ‘will do anything’ to get his family back. I am not sure whether this is genuine or whether he all of a sudden realises what he has lost and is saying anything (but not meaning it) just to get back into the house. He has made empty promises before about his drinking so it’s very hard to trust him. I know if we didn’t have kids I would have no issue with walking away and never looking back, but because of them there is a part of me that hopes he gets help and we reconcile. Thanks again for all the support, it has been super helpful.

This just broke my heart:

The tuning point was when he came home in the morning after a bender, passed out on the couch and wet his pants. My daughter found him.

My SO is a child of an alcoholic, and this was one of his most traumatic things. Never knowing in what state his father will come home and

then wetting himself. He lost all respect for his father and all respect for his mother, because she didn't do anything, just screaming and raging. Just imagine that picture: you are let's say 7 years old, your father lies on the floor, smelling of alcohol and piss, your mother screaming, crying, hysterical...

Please be strong, he really has to stop drinking, if you and the kids want to have ANY relationship with him. Do not underestimate the impact this will have on your kids. I know this is hard but you have to be strong and decisive.

Big warm hug from me

(sorry for all mistakes, I got very emotional and had no time to make a grammar check)

[This message edited by bookworm19 at 1:57 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)]

I'm so sorry you had to find this place, no matter how good and safe a place it is. The trip here sucks.

My daughter is an alcoholic, married to a wonderful guy and has two small children. Three years ago she almost died at age 30 from alcoholism. She was given six months tops. While she was in the hospital my son-in-law and I had a very hard conversation. She would either die or if the drinking continued, he was going to divorce her and take the kids away. He had my full support in this, and regardless of how much it broke my heart, she was not going to come live with me if that happened. My two little grandchildren deserved a better life than being home with a mom that was either passed out or angry all the time.

It's been three years since she had a drink. She has a great new job, got her drivers license back and my grandkids are like different kids. I never realized the toll it was taking on them at ages 2 and 4 until I got to see them without fear on their faces everytime they saw me. I was grandma dissaster recovery. Now I'm cookie grandma.

Your kids deserve better, even if you should miraculously find that you H isn't actually cheating. I can assure you, having an unpredictable drunk and a dejected mom in your home is way worse than a household without the drunk parent.

I second the suggestion of Al-Anon. I went and it changed the way I look at things. It was a blessed relief. It taught me that you can't love someone into changing. It's a great support group. I know the thought of him cheating hurts. The thought of raising your kids alone is scary. But you already are. Think about what it would be like to do that without the constant worry about him.

You are in my prayers.

Is he in IC yet and attending MC with you?

If I were you, I'd require him to be sober for the next 6 months before he's allowed back and to attend AA meetings. Any amount of drinking would either reset the clock or cause a D. And a passed polygraph and clean STD test when he gets back because it does sound like he's already been sleeping around.

Hi Dazy, I don't post much, but I felt compelled to reply to you. You say that if it weren't for the kids you'd easily leave. But they are the exact reason you should walk away, not stay! I was married to an alcoholic drug addict and my son was the determining factor in me finally leaving. I didn't want him living with someone like that, growing up and seeing his dad passed out on the floor in a puddle of his own vomit.

Your husband needs to fix himself. You can't do it for him. You and the kids have been there all this time, presumably supporting him and asking him to change - and it hasn't done a bit of good. Maybe living apart will be the wake up call he needs to get on the path to sobriety. But no matter what, it's up to HIM. You can't take responsibility for his actions or lack thereof. If you don't let him move back in and he continues to drink, that's on HIM - it won't be your fault, it will be because he wasn't serious about stopping the drinking in the first place. Don't let that inner voice guilt you into letting a destructive force back into your and your kids' lives. IMO he needs to stay gone. At the very least until he has 6 months' worth of sobriety under his belt (complete with AA and counseling).

The cheating on top of the drinking issue would make me even more wary of him ever coming back.

I am wishing the best for you and your kids. You are strong, you can get through this!

Halo Dazy, are you OK?

I can't stop thinking about you and your situation.

Like other posters said and especially HellsBelle

You say that if it weren't for the kids you'd easily leave. But they are the exact reason you should walk away, not stay! I was married to an alcoholic drug addict and my son was the determining factor in me finally leaving.

Please be strong and do what's right for the kids, they need a safe parent.

I'm really afraid they will resent you later in life if you don't do what needs to be done.

Actions speak louder than words. Does he do anything to show remorsefulness or is it just words? Can you get him to go to AA? Can you discuss boundaries with him? If he says he will do anything to save his family - find out if what he says it true or not - give him your expectations but be prepared just in case he can't or won't stay true.

Please go get a full panel STD done in any case - you seem like the more stable parent and you need to stay healthy for you & your children.

You are a strong woman - you are the foundation of your family. If he can't follow through with his promises, leave him - you have already shown to yourself that you are fully capable in making a success of yourself and your family.

**Have you ever attended an ALNON meeting? I have heard that they are extremely helpful in teaching you how to deal with an alcoholic. If nothing else, you have a physical place where you can go and vent as well as having SI.

Hugs galore!

I had my counseling session a few days ago. She said I am doing the right thing. She does not recommend couples counseling. He has a lot of work to do on himself before we can even think about couples counseling. She also said that because he chose to go on a boys trip instead of working on himself and the marriage it demonstrates he has not learned a thing. All he knows is that I am angry with him. He knows that in the past he just has to apologise and grovel for a while, I forgive him and everything returns to normal. He then does it again and the cycle continues. There is zero comprehension of his alcohol issue and the impact it is having on the family. The counselor said there is nothing I can do to help him, it’s up to him now. I felt a lot better after speaking with her and now understand I can’t have him in the home around the kids until he gets help.

Bookworm19, your post about your SO’s upbringing really hit home. I have been in that exact situation, screaming and yelling at my husband while he lays there drunk, kids nearby. I can’t ever risk that happening again. I think I was a bit naive and didn’t realise this could cause them psychological damage.

My husband returns from the boys trip tonight, I have a script the counselor gave me to help me talk to him about the next steps. I know now his words have no meaning, they never have, I have to look out for actions. He may end up choosing alcohol over his family and I have to be prepared for that.

I haven’t had STD tests done yet but I do intend to. I will stick with the counseling sessions as well. Am doing my best to continue eating healthy and maintaining my exercise routine - it keeps me sane. I know I will get through this. Thanks for your support :)

I feel like I just read my own life story. Although I am not married and my boyfriend now ex and I have only been together for 1 yr and 5 months and I don't have any children.. yet. I am 32 weeks pregnant with my first. I feel for you but also know we do not deserve this. Especially for the sake of our babies. I read the comments and they all really touched me and put me into perspective with my own situation. As much as I want my boyfriend or ex whatever he is, he is also a lying and cheating drunk and we are better off without them.

[This message edited by MamaB707 at 1:19 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

Dazy19:

Good to hear you had a positive counseling session. I just want to echo what others have said. I grew up as the oldest of five siblings and my father was a severe alcoholic and my mother drank to forget. All of my siblings and I have suffered long standing negative effects from living with all of this crap growing up. It is a nightmare. My father was also a cheater and womanizer, and as far as I am concerned they go hand in hand with being an alcoholic. Excuse my language, but your WH is 41 years old, and M with children, and he needs to grow the fuck up. He needs counseling and help to quit drinking. Getting him to quit drinking will be a huge challenge. Many fail. I am sending you strength and prayers. Good luck.