SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I do have a life and business.

I have considered therapy.

I want therapy.

The thought of having to open up and break down and be seen as a sobbing mess in front of a stranger is scary to me. So I haven't made the call. I'm embarrassed enough as it is.

She said shes sorry. And she wants fix this. She wishes she could go back and undo the choices. She says she wishes she could make all of this stop. She wishes she could take my pain away and have never put me there to begin with.

She gave me the code to the phone I guess as a gesture of good will and moving in the right direction. As that phone would ROYALLY fuck up her entire life. And shes trusting me with it.

However she says she doesn't know HOW to do any of the above in terms of fixing.

I have responded with basically do what you should have done to begin. Stop the bullshit, the lies, stop ignoring my efforts, my love, my forgiveness, and start focusing on this relationship like it's important and that it matters and I matter.

And here's where the rub starts!

She says she wants too! But she doesn't know HOW!??? She says she thinks she needs time alone to fix herself first. She says it's not fair to me to do any of those before going out on her own and fixing herself first.

I mean I KIND OF see that point. But at the same time my heart FEELS LIKE the only way this is going to get fixed is IMMEDIATE action towards our relationship. Like the attention to this relationship has been so non existent from her during the whole A that her taking time to fix herself just seems like a continuation of A. If she were to recognize what she has right in front of her, and appreciate the opportunity and seize that chance and embrace it and run with it, then damn that would feel good. That would feel like were on the right path.

But am I reading to much into this? Are my feelings right? Or does time to fix herself lead to a better R?

I know alcohol is a bad idea I'll stay away from it.

[This message edited by LateNght at 2:55 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)]

However she says she doesn't know HOW to do any of the above in terms of fixing

She figured out how to cheat, let her figure out how to fix. You need to figure out what is best for you.

She's actually right, or at least following the advice that many are given here --

the wayward partner works on themselves, figuring out WHY they cheated, working on and FOO issues they have, self-esteem issues, the need for external validation, etc.

the betrayed partner works on healing themselves, because many show signs of depression and/or PTSD (or PISD: post-infidelity stress disorder), such as

Behavioral: agitation, irritability, hostility, hypervigilance, self-destructive behavior, or social isolation

Psychological: flashback, fear, severe anxiety, or mistrust

Mood: loss of interest or pleasure in activities, guilt, or loneliness

Sleep: insomnia or nightmares

Also common: emotional detachment or unwanted thoughts

"Unwanted thoughts" are often referred to as "mind movies" on SI, and have a habit of popping up, unwanted at the worst time. For example, I usually get hit with them while having sex with my WH. The image of him having sex with his AP pops into my mind and just... I gotta stop and cry.

It's also not unusual for your self-esteem to take a beating. My WH's AP was 10 years older than me, 3x my size, and not pretty. She had buggy eyes, a weird shaped forehead, and always had fake hair and nails and a ton of makeup on. So at first I would look at pictures of her on facebook and think that there must be something wrong with me that he chose HER.

But no. The problem was him. There was something wrong with my WH. That's why he had an affair, and told himself things like, "it's because I'm so hot AP couldn't resist me," and "big girls need love, too, so by sleeping with someone her size, it was almost like doing her a favor."

Meanwhile the AP got her self-esteem (temporarily) boosted, thinking she must be so attractive that she lured away a married man, until... he dropped her like a hot potato.

Anyways, your WWLTGF should be working on herself, because her cheating shows that she has issues, not your relationship. If/when she figures out why she cheated, then she can work on that part of her character and firming up her boundaries so this never happens again.

Tell her that you're not going to wait around forever, that you need to figure out what YOU want to do, but maybe in the future if she works on herself, you might be open to relationship counseling and fixing your relationship.

BUT.

Take your time. Go to therapy on your own. And think about what boundaries you need to set going forward.

Not to control her, because that never works.

But, for example, "I will not be in a relationship with someone that has contact with their ex-AP, ever again."

So she needs to commit to going no contact, and and she needs to understand that you're not trying to control her, but you're setting boundaries for what you will and won't accept in any relationship that you're in.

Has anyone else recommended How to Help You Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? It's inexpensive and a short read. Tell her if she doesn't know where to start, she should get that book to get an idea.

Good books for her to read are, HOW TO HELP YOUR SPOUSE HEAL FROM YOUR AFFAIR and NOT JUST FRIENDS. They will give her a guideline on how to go about helping you to heal and the setting of boundries when dealing with others.

You both should be in IC. I hope you can get over your pride of breaking down in front of someone else. Counselors are trained to deal with this to help you heal. You may not find the right counselor at first, keep.trying new ones til you find one that works for you. The counselor will help you navigate through your feelings to help you find peace with yourself.

Remember, you did nothing wrong. Though your mind will start saying what could I've done differently. This is normal. Keep repeating that this all happened due to a short coming in your WGF.

Please try to limit the drinking. It's a depressant and we all know the wonderful decisions we make when drunk. It's ok to feel the feels of sorrow and disappointment in your broken relationship. You need to take care of yourself now. Begin your healing. And, to get out of infidelity. If she does the work necessary, she can join you in your trip out. If she doesn't like most WS don't, you will gain you life back knowing you kept your values, morals, self respect.

LateNight, I am sorry if you've answered this, and I am in no way trying to upset you or be rude, but I was wondering why you have been with this woman for 7 years, practically raising her son and forming a family, without marrying? Was it something one of you didn't believe in? Didn't want? Were you ok with not marrying after such an investment of time and energy? I sometimes find that attitudes toward the commitment of marriage can be telling.

Owningitnow,

When we first started dating at 20 & 22 she wanted to get married. It's not that I didn't want to get married one day I just didnt put alot of thought into it. A couple of years ago I started thinking I'm gonna ask her.

It seemed less important to her by then though. And there was no need to rush a wedding when we wernt planning kids until 2019-2020 so I hadn't popped the question yet.

LateNight.

Go for therapy. You will be glad you did. So what if the first two sessions or so you are a sobbing mess. It will help you in more ways than you know. Do it. There are online therapy sessions if that makes you feel better. Just find someone who deals with infidelity.

Second I think the GF can google “what can I do to win back my boyfriend after cheating on him” and all kinds of books and websites and articles and links will appear. She’s either lazy or clueless if she can’t figure that out on her own.

Third, I don’t know if she is still playing games or you against the AP but I find it odd that she insists she needs to be alone “to figure things out”. Because to me if she was remorseful and your relationship is/was her top priority then I would think she would want to be running towards you - not away.

But that is just me. I know the first 6 months after my H’s Affair ended he was with me as much as possible and proving to me (by his actions) that he was putting our marriage first and healing was a top priority. Your GF is doing the opposite and I wonder why.

I understand that you have huge emotional investment and can't just "run" like some are saying, but you can handle things as well as possible which is far better than doing everything wrong (as evidenced by how we feel when we look back, and we all know the types of things we regret).

Don't be passive and agree to whatever she wants. Women are NOT won over this way. Passivity is unattractive.

Don't be aggressive and appear dangerous or threatening. You don't need any police involvement.

Be assertive. Continue to assert your needs.

She says she wants too! But she doesn't know HOW!??? She says she thinks she needs time alone to fix herself first. She says it's not fair to me to do any of those before going out on her own and fixing herself first.

She is requesting time to work on herself. I doubt that she will do this, but it would be great if she dove into twice weekly IC. My gut (based on what we see with WS who ask for breaks here) is she means that she wants to see how things go with OM. So how do you handle this assertively? You have a couple options.

A. Agree. Then leave her alone totally. Disconnect. If she feels you assertively protecting yourself and being strong, she may realize what she has lost and want to get back.

B. Agree but tell her that if she continues to see OM on this break, things are over with you forever. This is very assertive and strong on your part, and she will back off on wanting the break at all. Or she'll still want the break and see him and show that she just doesn't want you or care. Or she will want the break and stay away from him and honestly be working on herself. Get it? No matter what, you'll see where she stands.

C. Tell her that you are not taking a break. You are both working on this or you're not. This will be assertive and show you forcing her to make a decision. She will respect your assertiveness.

If you handle this passively and accept the break and whatever she wants at this time, my opinion is that she will lose her attraction to you forever. It's internal and not conscious, but women don't stay attracted to men who let them take advantage. If you handle this aggressively and try to force things, you'll be seen as crazy and unfit. Assertiveness is your best plan. I wish you much luck. You will never regret drawing boundaries around what you will and will not tolerate.

P.S. What is your current relationship withher son??? How is he handling this???

I'll turn it around and ask the same question to you:

"If she were to recognize what she has right in front of her".

This is just my opinion, but you want SO badly for this nightmare to just go away that you're going to buy into her "words". I get it this is NOT easy and it's extremely painful.

This woman has shown you by her actions (and her words) who she is. Maybe YOU might want to truly "RECOGNIZE" what is "right in front of you".

We saw each other yesterday and talked alot.

Her mom came with her to get her things out of the house.

I think it's good that she get a place of her own for now.

Her mom said she wished I hadn't told the OBS because she loves her daughter and grandson and doesn't want to see them suffer financially. And that's understandable. She also said she sees where I'm coming from too. But she started putting a lot of emphasis on me and SO taking space and being friends.

SO stayed after mom left and we talked. I told her that the whole space thing just seems like a continuation of the A. And that I put in so much effort alone so long that if she doesn't SHOW some that me, and our relationship is important pretty quickly I'm moving on. Itll hurt like hell, it already does, but I'll move tf on.

She can still work on herself.

Now here's the thing...

I basically did number 3 that a previous poster listed. SO saw it my way.

But it felt reluctant. Or hesitant.

Is this normal? Is this ok? Is this a sign of R being doomed to fail?

I did number 3. SO said she thought if we just stayed in contact and took things " one day at a time with no label on our relationship" that she could "fix herself" and then she could "fix us".

I said it wouldn't work. She asked me why.

And I told her all of the things I've listed in this thread about doing it by myself for so long while the A was happening and the trust issues and the hurt etc etc that if it was going to work then she had to stop the lies, be 100% done with OM, accept my efforts accept that I'm trying to forgive her, and reciprocate above and beyond on her efforts to rebuild trust and show me that I'm important and that our relationship is important. Important enough to fight for. She says she still loves me, well love doesn't run. Fight for it.

She did agree. But it wasnt at break neck speed as you would think it would be.

I think shes so worried about her job right now shes not in the headspace to be what I need her to be and I think she knows that and I think that's why she kept talking about space bc she wants to see what going to happen with her job and when that dust settles she can get where she needs to be to help us.

Of course I could be totally wrong about that. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

But I guess as of right now together, and we need still need to have some long talks about what needs to be done and where we go from here to rebuild, but we took the first step in both saying we wanted to and will try.

This woman has shown you by her actions (and her words) who she is. Maybe YOU might want to truly "RECOGNIZE" what is "right in front of you"

I'm not disagreeing.

In a way yesterday felt like a win.

But it still left me wanting.

I don't want to be unreasonable or overly demanding or controlling but I wish she would have been the one saying the things I said. I wish I was the one talking about space and her saying no no no let's do this together. I wish she'd seem thankful and embrace the opportunity of forgiveness and run towards it full force.

Like I said I suspect its bc of how worried she is about her job.

It's not just a job idk why I keep calling it a job. It's a career. Her entire career could be completly fucked. And that's at the forefront of her mind right now.

Part of me wants to call her up and say ya know what, take your space I'm done. But then I would be wishy washy considering we just took the first small step yesterday. If I was gonna throw in the towel I should have done it before right now. Before we agreed that we were worth fighting for.

I do want R. I just dont want to start it in a way, or set out on a path that leads failed R. It's like I'm on path with a million turns and each of those turns leads to another million turns and so on and every choice, every decision... leads to the death of this relationship except 1. It's like how will I ever pick the right turns to make it.

She says she wants too! But she doesn't know HOW!??? She says she thinks she needs time alone to fix herself first. She says it's not fair to me to do any of those before going out on her own and fixing herself first.

Forgive the cynicism, but if my life had just blown all to hell and my SO was about to leave me and it was all MY fault, the last thing I'd be asking for is time apart. I'd be looking to prove myself, looking for ways to reassure myself that all could be forgiven. The problem we have with most repentant WS around here is that they tend to be too far up their BS's ass and afraid of an unwanted divorce. It's the knee-jerk response for a WS who desperately want to save it. Asking for space is an outlier in that scenario. Typically, when we see a WS taking space, they're test-driving an AP.

I can't tell you for certain exactly what's going on in your situation, but if your SO doesn't KNOW in her heart of hearts that you're going to dump her if she doesn't get her head on right, she's lacking for incentive. And personally, I don't play games. The first time I caught my WH in further contact after DDay, he had about 30 seconds to decide his priorities. And on DDay, if he had asked for "space", I'd have given him all of it. I meant it and he knew it. If he had doubted my resolve, we would be divorced now.

You've said over and over that your goal is to save this thing, but there's no way to control how another person behaves. What you can do though, is to be true to yourself. Your SO's demand for "space" doesn't serve YOU. It leaves you without the ability to observe any of the internal changes she says she wants to make, and without daily reassurance. We don't trust a WS's words. We look for actions. You can't see her actions because she's setting up a private environment.

If I were to give you some advice, I'd say make it a "now or never" proposition. If she's willing to do the work, she does it while maintaining boundaries within the relationship. Otherwise, you walk. And mean it. From here, it looks like she's setting you on the back-burner, waiting to see if the dust settles with OM, or in absence of that if she can make it on her own or even find someone else. That would make you about 4th in the list of options... but YOU are not "an option".

YOU are the one who sets the parameters for R, not the person who broke the relationship. YOU set the personal boundaries for what you're willing to tolerate from a potential mate. It doesn't work if the WS drives R, because long before a BS can heal, they want to put it all behind them. I see this request for "space" as a bid for control. This sets you up for another "my way or the highway" confrontation down the pike.

But that is just me. I know the first 6 months after my H’s Affair ended he was with me as much as possible and proving to me (by his actions) that he was putting our marriage first and healing was a top priority. Your GF is doing the opposite and I wonder why.

Her words are meaningless. Her actions tell you everything you need to know. You just don't want to see it.

the OM is 50% owner of the business. he has a partner, the partner has also tried to sleep with my girl but she hates him. her and OM talk major shit about other partner.

SO said she thought if we just stayed in contact and took things " one day at a time with no label on our relationship" that she could "fix herself" and then she could "fix us".

It's not just a job idk why I keep calling it a job. It's a career. Her entire career could be completly fucked. And that's at the forefront of her mind right now.

I have no idea what type of business this is... but I have seen firsthand... strife between business partners. It happens all the time. Business partners are much like a marriage in itself. Seems there is always a push or pull situation going on with business partners. I could be wrong but I suspect there is more going on than meets the eye. Your gf may have got herself in the middle of a business spat (or even the cause of it). If this is her career choice she needs to think long and hard on life choices.

I have no idea what type of business this is... but I have seen firsthand... strife between business partners. It happens all the time. Business partners are much like a marriage in itself. Seems there is always a push or pull situation going on with business partners. I could be wrong but I suspect there is more going on than meets the eye. Your gf may have got herself in the middle of a business spat (or even the cause of it). If this is her career choice she needs to think long and hard on life choices.

I'm not sure what you mean business spat? Can you eleborate.

Also just wanna after the small "win" yesterday when she left she said she would call last night... and she did. I was passed the hell out and missed the call.

No voicemail, no txt goodnight. Just the 1 missed call.

I txtd her this morning and said I had fell asleep early. She said she figured as much and hasn't said another word since.

Someone posted that the way she has been thru all of this suggests that there may have been a 3rd guy that she was "test driving" to be her new boyfriend.

Some of the things the OBS told me point in that direction.

I learned theres a guy that starting 2 weeks has started pursuing her hardcore and knows her mom's side of family very well. We'll call him GuyA.

Also learned of another guy that hasn't been "pursuing" my SO so to speak but has been overly friendly. I didnt know who he was and when I asked she told me he was the bf of someone she worked with. As if him being in a relationship with a coworker would dismiss him as an AP . We'll call him GuyB.

Her mom lives 2 hours away in 1 direction. Guy2 lives 1 hour away in another direction. So her moms and Guy2 are 3 hours apart. SO got a new phone along with new number the day before I found the burner phone. When her new number comes up it shows from the town where GuyB is from. Even though she got this phone supposedly with her mom in her mom's town.

Just looks fishy.

I want to ask all these things and discuss with SO but then I'm a paranoid control freak.

I've stayed quiet all day and got my work done but I can't stop thinking about it.

And especially after yesterday I dont want to rush into a big ass 3rd degree interrogation conversation.

LateNght,

An unfaithful spouse who wants to save the marriage does not ask for space. My husband asked me for space, he needed some time on his own to think, to regroup, he will think of us and where we’re going, etc ... Well, he spent that week with the COW! I did not know SI at the time, and trusted him that he indeed needed a break for himself as he was very depressed and all over the place (affairs are not for the faint-hearted!)

Everything I have read on SI over the last few months has been my experience. It is incredible how these stories develop in the same way. What the waywards say and feel. What the betrayed go through.

Be strong and decisive - do not let her manipulate you. I know you are in pain and want to save this relationship but my experience tells me that at some point, you need to shake her out of her fog. This is the experience of so many SI posters who have been through this hell, just like you. You deserve respect, you deserve to be loved, you deserve commitment, and at this moment you have none of this.

Go to therapy and do not feel ashamed to cry - therapists always have a box of tissues on the desk, because people do cry in a therapy session. You need all the help and support you can to get through this awfully traumatic experience.

You are not on your own.

I did number 3. SO said she thought if we just stayed in contact and took things " one day at a time with no label on our relationship" that she could "fix herself" and then she could "fix us".

Brother I'm sorry but I hate to break it to you, the fact that she wants "space/separation to fix herself" typically means more time to cheat without being monitored, for many cheaters "separation/space" is pretty much a test drive of the AP and if found out they often throw the "but we were separated at the time" card to make them feel better about it.

Based on all your posts and including your most recent encounter, it sounds she doesn't have her two feet in this "relationship", hell she doesn't even want a "label" on it which to me means you don't really have one, hence the request for time apart/separation/space bullshit. Please lay down the "hopium pipe" and see things for what they are, she's not R material by a very long shot, also next time her mother throws that BS at you again, tell her your SO didn't seem that worry about her job/career when she was having sex with OM, that these are just consequences of her huge betrayal. OTOH she should be bending over backwards and on her knees begging for a chance to R but instead it seems like you're trying to force her to R, let me tell you right now, she's not even close to being remorseful and you cannot R successfully with an unremorseful cheater, just assume it's over and move on, I agree with others that you really dodged a bullet by not marrying her.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 12:21 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]

Latenight,

I've been following along and wanted to tell you how sorry I am that you, like all of us, had to join this club. I also just wanted to say that I think your SO believes that, despite what you say, you will not end the relationship. It can't be a script you're reading. You can't just play the part. You have to mean it. She has to see that she truly will lose you if she doesn't quickly make major changes. You mentioned that you didn't want to be too controlling, and my response to that is YES YOU DO.

[This message edited by MaggieNow1960 at 12:22 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]

Forgot to add - and it is only when I said to myself and to my husband «  Enough is enough », packed his bags and threw him out that he finally realised the enormity of what he had been doing, and what he was about to lose. Be strong, don’t do like I and so many of us did, ie., try to nice her back, do the « pick me » dance. It does not work, they use it to get more time with the imbecile they have chosen as their new soulmate. Which tells a lot about themselves actually (at this time in their life at least.)

Well like I said as of now we've taken the first small step in R and moving on but y'all really are making me paranoid that theres another OM.