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My STBX got a bit annoyed when I said I would be attending various children's events (school events and sports) during her custody time. She got over that, but now takes issue with my family attending (my parents specifically). She said previously that they should not attend sporting events if possible (because STBX and my parents are not on good terms these days). We ignored that and she stopped complaining about it. Now she says that if they want to attend my kid's jointly held birthday party by helping out with food, I need to ask her permission first because it's her custody time and I "shouldn't assume they are welcome." This party is planned at a neutral location.

Is this fair? Can I ignore this again? I don't want to mediate the toxic relationship between STBX and my family.

Who else is attending this birthday party? Just kid friends? Her extended family?

This may be a sign that joint events for kids won’t work well.

Yes, I should have elaborated. This is our first year of separation and we decided to do joint birthdays.

The birthday was originally planned for my weekend of custody, but we opted to move it a week later, which is her weekend.

The plan is to do the party at a park, but if it rains, we'll do it at my house.

It's a kids party, for kids. We did a dinner party on his birthday with my family already. My parents were not coming to the kids party until I realized we might need help picking up pizza. They were happy to help. It hadn't occurred to me this would be an issue. STBX wrote me a stern email stating "I request that you do not invite them to games or parties or other events that happen during my custody time because they have been quite hostile to me and I do not want them around me when the kids are in my custody. I am no longer willing to share my custody time with them."

Not sure how to approach this and I'm wondering what others have found effective.

This is why doing things together is a bad idea. There will always be something for her (or you) to take issue with.

While it may be "easier" to have just one party, do your own thing.

Sucks for the kids though.

I guess we could just alternate by year, leave all planning to one parent, and then just invite the other parent to come. Cut down on collaboration...

Or, do what a lot of parents do and have separate parties/events on your own time. That eliminates all collaboration. And what kid doesn't like multiple parties!

I've wondered about this. I'm not sure my kids would like to invite their friends to two parties. Maybe two different groups of friends? My older son in particular is struggling with feeling self-conscious about his parents separating.

Putting the birthday aside, I'm most stumped by STBX's claim that a children's activity (regular activity like a sport) that takes place during her custody time is "her time" and that she can therefore decide that me or my parents can't be there to watch. This all takes place in public.

I'm wary of falling into the trap of feigned innocence here. Her stance seems like more narcissism to me and I don't think custody works that way unless you have restraining orders in place. And I don't believe my family intends her any harm by showing up, I think they wish she wasn't there too but they stomach the whole thing to be there for the kids.

I guess I'm looking for the devil's advocate here...?

I mean, she is right. It's her time. With respect to sports events and other school activities, your parents can attend without any consideration towards her. But it's different with a party. Shouldn't have fallen into this cycle man. Just increases communication and forces you to collaborate with a narc. You could have easily done a small dinner with your kids and parents at a later time.

Doesn't have to be two "parties" where their friends are expected to provide two gifts. The point is to do something different from the other parent to make the day special - dinner with family, picnic, fun event, treasure hunt, whatever. I had my own senior graduation party for my youngest DD. It was in a public place but her father was not invited, nor did DD want him there.

If it is a party hosted by STBX on her time, let her dictate the guests. It's just not worth getting twisted in knots over. This is what D is. Going to a school or sports event on her time? She can't dictate. You just have your family sit in another area away from her and her toxic fumes. Pretend she's not there and be there to support the child.

A kids activity like concerts, shows or sporting events are open to the public. If she lets the kids participate any one can come watch. What an idiot! It’s a public event! Oh, and the fact that she doesn’t want your parents there because they are not on good terms. Sorry, it’s called consequences.

I divorced a narc. Separate everything. NC as much as humanly possible and absolutely no phone calls.

Email only. This cut down on the games he always played because there was a paper trail.

I see where you are coming from. I take issue with "letting her dictate the guests" because she's not hosting this party; I handled all the invitations, location and food, while she is basically bringing cake. But I am thinking the entire premise here is all wrong and in the future we'll alternate "hosting" the birthday independently so that we don't need to collaborate at all.

Putting my foot down on children's events though.

You know, she told me it's my "job to set boundaries" with my parents. Why would I enforce her boundaries with my parents? I don't have time for this, and they are all adults.

Ugh, I emailed her last night to say we should alternate hosting parties instead of jointly hosting (ie my family won't come to "her" kids parties), and that i wouldn't tell my parents not to attend kids sports. Getting better at just stating my position and not justifying or debating.

She replies overnight that "it's not good for our kids and if you aren't willing to accept my position I will stop bringing the kids to (their sport). Problem solved!"

I won't respond. What a circus. She cheats for five years, resulting in a falling out with my family who obviously also feel betrayed, and now I think she's again implying that I'm the one hurting the kids. I want to scream back "not my monkeys" but I'll just archive it for now.

[This message edited by unspecified at 7:59 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]

I divorced a narc. Separate everything. NC as much as humanly possible and absolutely no phone calls.

This should be a sticky. I might make it my sig.

You have to change your perspective. She's free to do whatever she wants during her time. I don't know why you keep expecting her to 'do better' when her actions have demonstrated time and time again that she only cares about her personal comfort. And she's making these asinine threats like how you respond matters to her. She'll find something else to be aggrieved about. You just cannot win. This will be your life till the kids are grown up. Do you want this? You shouldn't have gotten suckered in this joint whatever charade.

I hope there is some progress on the separation agreement. And start dating casually if you have the time. So much of your energy goes into this utterly mundane shit. Distractions would be good.

Yeah, I do need distractions. I got a dog instead of a date, might have been a mistake, but it's a good distraction and more affordable for the time being.

Rusty, if we (1) stop collaborating on events (lesson learned this year), and (2) I just ignore her complaints about who attends my kid's events, and (3) I do not respond to her threats to remove our kids from sports - what more can I do?

if we (1) stop collaborating on events (lesson learned this year), and (2) I just ignore her complaints about who attends my kid's events, and (3) I do not respond to her threats to remove our kids from sports - what more can I do?

This sounds like your plan moving forward. What else can you do? Ride the wave, it will level out eventually into what your new normal is. If she spouts off about something just say, "hmmm that's interesting" or "no" and do what you want.

Not sure how old your kids are but they will adapt. My DS was in high school and when I told him that his dad requested we do a joint grad party he said let's just do our party at home and I'll go do something with dad separately. He knew it would be not good for any of us to be in the same place.

I take issue with "letting her dictate the guests" because she's not hosting this party; I handled all the invitations, location and food, while she is basically bringing cake.

Ah! You got played! You did all the work, she gets all the credit. See how that works?

My ex tries that shit me too (she's unemployed, in a half way house. Wanted to do a "joint" dinner for my oldest DD when she graduated. Fuck that.)

Yes, separate things are the way to go. It doesn't even need to be you both do parties. If you know she is going to do a party, you do a movie (or whatever) on your day/weekend.

As to the sports/activities thing, you are absolutely in the right. She has no right to dictate who can/can not attend. And if she stops their participation in the activities, you might want to consider legal action to force her to.

But, I would guess it's mostly just an empty threat. These things tend to be. They make demands and threats hoping you'll just cave (it's a common manipulation tactic, just like rage, being nice, etc.). Don't. And don't respond either. Just show up to the activities and ignore her. (Do document/keep a copy of those threats though. They might come in handy if you need to go in front of a judge).

Rusty, if we (1) stop collaborating on events (lesson learned this year), and (2) I just ignore her complaints about who attends my kid's events, and (3) I do not respond to her threats to remove our kids from sports - what more can I do?

Nothisfriend pretty much summed it up.

She'll eventually get the message that you aren't going to rise to her bait and respond - which is what she is trying to do. It's a form of control (in her mind) to make you jump through these hoops.

It's crazy, but you can't rationalize crazy.

Just ignore her and eventually she'll figure it out. It may get worse, but just stay NC as much as possible. Everything through text/IM. If she does come up to you - "Mmm, hmm," "I'm sorry you feel that way," and "No," should be your base vocabulary. Walking away is a key move too.