SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey everyone, sorry that we are all here but feels good to know there's a place to tell my story. I will just dive right in.

I guess before I start let me apologize if I am all over the place. I don't know what I want specifically from posting here. Maybe validation I am doing ok, or that I need to change course, but I think also I'd like for others to see my story so maybe they know what life might be like for them if they always chose to reconcile.

We've been married for 10 years and together for 15, my WW is 14 years younger than I am. She is beautiful and I am incredibly attracted to her. She has a child-like innocence to her and seldom says a bad word about anyone.

Having said that she is not emotionally mature. She cannot communicate. When things get rough she reaches for others.

She has had many affairs over the course of our marriage. To my knowledge, they have all been pictures and chatting. The great majority of the time I find out because she has to either split up or cause trouble in our marriage to have these exchanges with others. About 5 years ago things came to a head and we had that conversation were we put everything on the table. I told her every last deatil of anything I might have done and she did the same. I felt so free and our relationship became amazingly strong. We were the happiest couple I knew for the 5 years. Then on a random day this past January I get a message from a woman I don't know, wanting to know why my wife was talking to her husband. I asked my wife and she confirmed that they chatted on snapchat and exchanged nude pics. She didn't know him and he had added her randomly. He lives several hours away. I was devastated and angry. I wasn't going to end my marriage over pictures though and decided to push forward.

About 2 months ago she started acting distant. After a week or 2 she said she wasn't happy and was going to make plans to move out. As I stated above this is her routine for when she is having some type of relationship outside of our marriage. She protested that she was not but knowing her like I do I set up a hidden camera where I know she likes to take her pictures. About 10 days ago I had to watch her taking nude photos and sending them to someone. I confronted her and she confessed that she'd been talking to a guy from her gym. This time I wasn't so devastated. I asked if she had slept with him, she said no. That nothing physical had happened, it was just pictures and chat. Now I know what anyone reading this is thinking. She's a liar and a cheater. She more than likely has been physical with the guy. I admit that I am not sure myself. However, here are a few reasons why I think not. My entire family is on Life360. I can see where she has been and trust me, once this started I have looked. I also text with her a ton while she is at the gym. I ask her for pics while there, like - let me see those guns. I do that just to confirm she is there and to get a specific pose in case she loaded her phone with picures to send when she was with him. She has never to my knowledge been physical with anyone during our marriage, it has always been pics and dirty talk. The last guy she slept with besides me pretty much sexually assauted her, at the least, but might could be classified as more. She's been afraid to be around men in that way since.

I would mention that when I watched her on the camera taking nudes she was almost stoic. It wasn't erotic she could have just as easily been taking a picture of a plate of food. It was strange, if I saw any emotion it looked like instant guilt but maybe thats what I wanted to see.

Despite her beauty and amazing figure she is amazingly insecure. She lacks empathy, and I mean lacks it almost completely. She will never stop doing this because of the fact that it hurts me.

She stopped talking to the guy. I contacted him and he was a grade A ass. I was pretty nice considering, mainly because I blame her and not him.

Since ending it she has been trying to do things right. I know she will never stop though. Why would she? She says she is going to get counseling, which she won't. She says she is going to do a lot of things that she will never do. It is 100% going to happen again.

She is a good mom. We have never had a fight in front of the kids. She is a good wife in all ways except this one very huge way. I am not going to leave her. She is truly addicted. My father was a drug addict and there is very little difference in their behavior. Yes, connect the dots. I am sure I am an enabler.

We have had talk about an open situation with chatting. I am a pretty open minded person about sex. Nothing works with lies and betrayal though. I worry that what she likes is the cheating so if she has permission to chat it will lose its shine and she will take it to the next level.

So hit me with any thoughts you might have. Like I said at the beginning I don't know exactly what I am looking for. I am lost, confused and feel like I am trapped in my life. I want her to change and be the person I know she can be but that is on her. Is there anything I can do to help her find her way?

Can I ask some questions?

How old is she?

How many kids and how old?

Does she have an education?

Does she have a career?

Does she have a job? If not how does she spend her days?

Does she have any special skills/talents (e.g. art or music)

What makes her feel good about herself? (Is that mostly her appearance?)

What do you love besides her appearance? The only things you say about her is that she is emotionally immature and lacking empathy.

All this will help us give you better advice.

PS: “anything I might have done.” What is that about?

[This message edited by Odonna at 5:35 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]

Your wife is a serial cheater who has never had any consequences for her infidelity.

Men,when distance isnt a factor, aren't in it for pics and dirty talk. They're in it for the sex.

That she was stoic when taking the pics means nothing. She has done it a thousand times. She is used to it.

What I don't understand is you know she is a serial cheater. She has left you several times to pursue her affairs. Once they're done using her, or their wives find out, she comes back to you. Plan B. Why do you allow this? She has no respect for you at all.

She may never say an unkind word about anyone. But she has no problem being the OW in another woman's marriage. That's about as ugly as it gets.

I am not going to leave her.

If there are no consequences, there's no impetus for any change in her behavior. I would suggest you consider getting into Al Anon to address whatever codependency issues you might have. I'd also suggest frequent STD testing and safe practices. Your hands are tied though. As BS, we only have one point of leverage, and that's our willingness to withdraw from the relationship if we're mistreated. Not sure where you live, but if it's in a state where alienation of affection can be grounds for a lawsuit, you might also consider putting money aside for a legal defense. The same would be true if she meets someone else and decides to divorce. A nest egg could come in handy.

And,sorry, but good moms aren't serial cheaters. Good moms dont send naked pics of themselves to random men on the internet. Good moms dont put other men before their children. They dont put their children's family,safety,security and happiness at risk by having affairs. Good moms dont continuously hurt the father of their children.

Jesus Christ. Is she not aware that child molesters, and sexual predators target women like her, specifically so they can get access to her children?? What she is doing is so incredibly stupid and dangerous. She has put their safety at risk. High risk.

She may love them. She may take care of them. But sneaking off to the bathroom to take a picture of her breasts to send to some guy is not being a good mom.

And continuously leaving her husband,so she can let her affair play out, then coming back is not being a good mom. Does she take the kids with her? Or does she abandon them as well while she's out getting her itch scratched?

You sound like a nice guy. Unfortunately, women like your wife use that to their advantage. You need to stop being so nice.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:25 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]

The huge red flag in your statement is that she lacks empathy. Look that up. It is not good. Not good at all.

your "wife" has probably had very physical affairs. let's broom that, for now.

she is, at least, an extreme sex addict and cannot refrain from approaches from other men. she's a beauty, they're attractive, and she feels compelled to fulfill their interest in her with sex pics. i really think she's banged some of these lurkers, big time.

she needs some intense counseling, IC, for her sex addiction. it's there, it's real and it may not be curable. leave that to the professionals or cut her loose. she's not a wife. she's a very attractive sex doll.

She's walking all over you and has been for years.

It's up to you to decide if you want to be her doormat for the forseeable future, or if you prefer to be with a decent woman - which your wife is not - or even alone.

This chick has sent naked pics to men all over the place. Her naked body is probably all over the internet. This existence will kill your soul.

To answer some questions:

She is 35

3 kids 14, 8, and 5

No education besides high school

She has a job but not during the summer so much

Skills not much, but she is very involved with our kids sports teams and extra-curricular activities

She totally identifies with her appearance and gets self worth from that.

What I love is thatshe takes good care of us. She is a very hard worker. She gives up a lot to be involved in my life and the kids life.

Regarding the anything I might have done comment. When we dated we had times apart, I had things I kept from her from that time period. I have not touched another woman in 10 years or talked to one in that way either.

As far as the physical stuff goes. I will just say that I know her and I won't defend the sexting. I have no reason to defend her about anything honestly but I have zero proof that she has been physical. The guy she was talking to told me when I confronted him that he wasn't going to stand for my insinuations that they had been physical when they hadn't been. I know she might have gotten to him first and they worked on their story but again, it just really has never been her thing.

I am more than aware that she has no respect for me. I am more than aware that she has had no consequences.

I didn't include this originally, but I have went through a divorce before. My kids from that marriage were taken 5 hours from where I lived. I did the best I could but they grew up without me in their daily life. My ex-wife married a convicted sex offender and kept it from me. So I will say this, I don't care what popular opinion there is that you shouldn't stay together for the kids. It is the ONLY reason you should stay together in these situations. I will never regret sacrificing for them.

I would love to try and help point my wife in the right direction and try to help her. I know it is up to her but I can at least give her suggestions and advice.

Sumofone posted:

As far as the physical stuff goes. I will just say that I know her and I won't defend the sexting. I have no reason to defend her about anything honestly but I have zero proof that she has been physical. The guy she was talking to told me when I confronted him that he wasn't going to stand for my insinuations that they had been physical when they hadn't been. I know she might have gotten to him first and they worked on their story but again, it just really has never been her thing.

She met a guy at her gym and progressed to sending him naked selfies - but on the way there nothing physical ever happened?!

And corroborating this story is the indignant denial of gym-guy?!

Question: what would you do if it did go physical?

I suggest you get Fonelab and run a recovery on her current phone and any of her old phones you might still have lying around.

Good luck to you.

Her beauty does not give her a pass, nor is it a good enough reason for you to forgive everything. It looks like she won't stop unless something drastic happens. She has already indicated that she wants to separate which is not a good sign. She obviously gets a lot of validation from the sexting, flirting and god knows what else. She probably loves interacting with guys who fancy her.

Everyone is different but she will need to take some responsibility for safe-guarding her marriage. If she doesn't want to be married anymore then she won't change.

Do you think she will work on the marriage or do you think she will just go through the motions?

Try and get into marriage counseling but you should chose a counselor who you respect, maybe try and appointment yourself to get a feel for it.

Good luck and keep posting.

Idk what to say bc it seems like you're not looking for help. Moreso, you want to counter everything said with why the advice is not doable, further strengthening your stance of inaction.

Is she not aware that child molesters, and sexual predators target women like her, specifically so they can get access to her children?

This! ^^^^^^

I have seen it. Was an emergency foster parent to 4 kids whose mother was arrested for sexual child abuse while her husband was deployed. She did it all for her boyfriend. They are both in federal prison now.

I understand why you don't want to lose your kids. I didn't want to have my kids only part time, either. I also didn't want another woman pretending to be their mommy. Based on her behavior, do you think you could get sole physical custody? More and more fathers are getting their children.

ETA: I forgot to say that I don't believe for one second that she has not screwed another man during your M. What do you think she has done all those times she left you? Are you sure your children are biologically yours?

She 35 years old! She's not a stupid, childish 20 year old. She sounds pathetic.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 8:13 AM, July 7th (Sunday)]

I am certainly taking all advice in. I don't mean for it to seem that I am not. However, everyone is so focused on telling me my wife was having sex that the good advice is few and far between.Everyone is quick to project their personal experience on to mine. I originally said that my wife might very well have been physical but I don't think so. If I found out today that she had I would not be surprised but again, I know her. I don't think she has been. The other side of it is, if she has been physical she would not tell me. I would have to find out on my own. I did a lot of digging and spying and I found no evidence that she has been. Also regarding her talking to a married man. It was on snap and she didn't know him. He said he was divorced. When his wife contacted me she told me that she found that he was on 2 different dating sites saying he was single. Still a lack of character as a married woman to be talking to a stranger like that.

I already had the conversation with her about the dangers of bringing strangers into our lives and the potential of what could happen to the kids. Her reckless behavior is more proof that she has an addiction.

I want to help her with this addiction. I would love to hear ideas on things I could be doing and things she should be doing. Several have suggested IC, and other forms of help. That is absolutely going to happen. It was a condition I demanded to take place this time. What else besides counseling?

I know what she does is not my fault and she made a choice to do the things that she has done but problems do not exist in a vacuum. Her complaints towards me is that I can be mean (accurate) and she feels powerless in our relationship (also accurate).

I know the picture I have painted is an ugly one. She is more than deserving of all the criticism. I have said it all myself. Even now though, I don't see a disgusting vile person who is evil and wants to destroy my life. I see someone who is damaged and broken. She struggles with this and fails even though she wants to do better. She is so empty she HAS to hear, "OMG your body is amazing." As I age, and my looks are not what they once were I get how good a small compliment can make you feel. Magnify that by 100 and that is her struggle.

Maybe what I am looking for is more approprieate in another forum? Maybe the WS would understand this side of it more. Those of us in here have a lot of pain. I will ask again here at the end.

What does she need to be doing to get better?

If infidelity teaches us anything, it teaches us that we cannot control other people. You only have control over yourself. And you've only got one tool in your arsenal, which you've already taken off the table. There's no magic cure. There's only our sincere determination not to allow any further abuse.

If you're dealing with an addiction issue, groups like AlAnon and CoDa can help you learn not to enable. But the first thing you'll learn is that you can't choose FOR the addict. They have to choose for themselves. Even if your WW goes to IC regularly, she would need to be willing to embrace that therapy. Not saying you shouldn't recommend it, only that it's still HER choice. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make her drink.

Being a serial cheater doesn't automatically mean she is an addict. Only a qualified CSAT can diagnose her.

I think it's easier for you to see her as an addict,however.

So,I will speak to you as if she is actually addicted. What does she need to do? Hit rock bottom. She can't do that with you enabling her. You know she is cheating. You know she has left several times to be with her affair partners. And you always take her back. She has no consequences. An addict who has no consequences will never stop. Never.

You can't tell her what she needs to do. But you can make changes that could lead to her making changes .

Stop enabling her. See an attorney and hand her divorce papers. Tell her you refuse to be in a marriage and share your wife with others. Start separating finances. Call her mother and tell her the marriage is over,and why. Tell your wife to leave the house. This will be a wake up call. She will either realise her behavior needs to stop, and she will beg for another chance, or she will be mad and leave. But she might come back and ask for that other chance. You can then agree to that, but you have requirements.

They should be..full transparency. You get full access to all accounts,passwords included. She sees a CSAT. She gives you permission to speak to her IC,and signs the necessary papers for that to happen. She drops all forms of social media. She stops going to the gym where her boyfriend goes. She goes NC will all OM. No more friends of the opposite sex unless they are friends of the marriage. She answers all of your questions with complete honesty. She digs deep to figure out why she does this. Sure, validation. But why does she need that validation? She needs to figure that out, and work on it so she no longer needs it. She gets tested for STDs. And she takes a polygraph so you know the full extent of her cheating. And anything else you need.

Look, I can see why it looks like people are projecting their pain onto your situation. However, most of the people who have responded to your thread, are years out from dday. Some reconciled(hi), some divorced. No one is projecting. What you have received is the hard earned wisdom of people who have been where you are. People who remain here,long after being healed, to pay it forward. We have seen your story a hundred times. Yes, people are all unique. But cheaters are not. They all follow the same pattern. So much so, a cheaters handbook is jokes about on here. People are saying she is having sex because we have a different perspective than you do. You love her. We don't. Our perspective is not clouded with love and the need to protect. It's not clouded by denial. Or the need to believe she is an addict,because if she is an addict, then somehow she just can't help what she is doing.

You can write your story in any forum you wish. But the responses will be the same. If you want a wayward's perspective and opinion, start a thread in the general forum, and put "waywards welcome" in the title.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:25 AM, July 7th (Sunday)]

What does she need to be doing to get better?

She needs to be going to therapy in order to root out the reason she seeks out male attention. She needs to develop true empathy for the people she hurts. She needs to establish an accountability network. She needs to define her values and notice the gap when her behavior doesn't reflect her own beliefs. She needs to respect herself (and others) enough to be honest about those things.

Brother, addicts generally have to hit rock bottom before they recognize what they are doing is a real problem and make the choice to get better. Until they hit rock bottom and work to fix themselves, they make the lives of those close to them hell.

I don't know that your wife would be clinically diagnosed as an addict, but from what you have written she is obviously broken to the point that she craves male sexual attention in an unhealthy way. There is nothing you did or did not do that caused her to crave that attention. No one is a perfect spouse. Healthy people deal with problems by communicating with their significant other, not by going outside of the marriage for attention.

She needs to recognize how destructive her actions are to herself, to you, and to your children. You need to extract yourself from this destructive relationship. The only thing that you can do to "help" her see how destructively she is acting is to detach from her emotionally and move forward. Read up on the 180 in the articles section of the Healing Library (box in the upper left corner of this page). Figure out what you want out of life and from a relationship. Let her figure out her own issues. She will either figure it out or she won't. You trying to nice her back will impede her self-discovery.

I hope your wife comes around, but you cannot live your life based upon that hope. What she is doing now is destroying you emotionally. It will hurt your kids emotionally, if it hasn't already. Treat her as the threat that she currently is until she begins to make a real effort to prove to you she is no longer a threat.

I'm sorry you find yourself here SumofOne, but here you are through no fault of your own. Be strong for your kids and yourself.

[This message edited by Gettingoveritall at 12:33 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

She lacks empathy, and I mean lacks it almost completely.

She is a good mom.

How in the hell can she be a good mom if she lacks empathy? That is the exact trait needed to qualify yourself as being a good mom (or dad for that matter).

I am more than aware that she has no respect for me.

I am more than aware that she has had no consequences.

I am not going to leave her.

What does she need to be doing to get better?

To me the biggest question is what are you willing to do to protect your children? Do a thorough search on 'Dissocial Personality Disorder'. You may find it very enlightening.