SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Of course that poured out here. Its a shame, she could have learned a lot here from some of the reformed WS's. Now it may be too late. She may have burned too many bridges here.

I hope that is not the case for her. Though it does look like she has burned some bridges. None the less, I do believe that she can learn to redeem herself from the other waywards.

My wife royally forked up. She probably destroyed any chance of recovering our marriage. I'm going to get up each day, try and stay sober, try and be patient with my talkative little one, try and work my way out of infidelity.

To quote a wise old muppet - "There is no try, only do"

Being sober will allow you to process the pain. Numbing it only prolongs it. And when it comes crashing down, which it will, it will hurt much worse. I know, that was me over 20 years ago.

As I said, I am truly heartbroken for you and I hope you redeem your life. I am not saying divorce or reconcile. Just that you get to a point in your life that her infidelity hurts much less.

I'm going to get up each day, try and stay sober, try and be patient with my talkative little one, try and work my way out of infidelity.

Good plan. That’s all you need to do now. One foot in front of the other, one day at the time. The rest will come, trust me.

I've followed your thread and man, do I feel for you. Your wife really reminds me of my own (Flawed, she's posted on your wife's thread a time or two). Two cake eaters who couldn't visualize any kind of consequence until they got caught, and then all of a sudden knew that we were their true love and they want to spend the rest of their life making it up to us. Lucky us, right?

I don't have anything ground-breaking to add, but I wanted to share a few thoughts. First, you should know my wife's affair happened a long time ago, almost 15 years, but she just confessed it to me last year and it feels "new" to me. I suffered a lot of TT, some over a period of many years, but some just in the weeks after the more recent d-day. My wife didn't hide as much in the way of sexual acts, but it was similar in that my wife tried to hide some of the more painful aspects. The very first post on my thread highlights this - I say something like "she swears up and down she ended the affair after she got walked in on". Spoiler - no, she didn't! And yes, my wife got walked in on fucking her AP in the bathroom, on the toilet, at a crowded house party. I can write that out now without popping a blood vessel, which is a huge improvement for where I was a year ago! The TT sucks, but even the worst details fade over time, and their power to cause you misery decrease. It's the affair itself that hurts the most, the fact that she ever did anything with another man, and TT doesn't change that basic fact.

Like you, I also had some skeletons in my own closet that I wasn't too proud of, but the upside of it was that I had some shit of my own to manage and it helped me empathize with hers. It helped me understand how incredibly hard it is to tell someone you love that you acted in a way that is so utterly embarrassing, so lacking in love, so shameful. If (and it's a big IF, and I would TOTALLY understand if there is no "if") you still want to try to R, I would recommend focusing on your own experience in the past, and maybe some half-truths or lies you told, to try to empathize with the extreme difficulty of telling someone you loved the kind of shit she had to tell you. I am not saying this to draw any kind of false equivalency (read my thread to get my thoughts on that, it's utter bullshit IMO), but only to say that it has helped me find empathy and to understand some of the motivations behind TT. Your wife did not love you during her affair and acted accordingly, and then she was asked to find a way to tell you the truth about it, at a time when she does love you, and she failed. It sucks, she sucks, but it's understandable in the larger picture.

The long story short of it is that your wife was a real asshole during her affair and has been a real coward afterwards. Nothing too surprising about any of that. If cheaters were courageous, they wouldn't cheat, they would control themselves or divorce.

I have been and still am filled with a lot of anger and resentment towards my wife for her affair; again, read my recent posts and see for yourself. But, I will say this - my wife is different than she was during her affair (and even than she was in the weeks/months after her d-day) and my rage and resentment get a little better every day. If you want a small bit of light at the end of the tunnel, I can tell you that people can change, and cheaters can stop cheating. My wife has passed a polygraph to that effect, at least.

I'm a year out from my d-day (and over a decade out from her actual affair) and it still bothers the shit out of me and I still contemplate D, so I would be the first to tell you that just getting a divorce and starting over is totally justified and probably the right call. But I also have small kids like you do and I know it's not that fucking easy, is it? You can't serve justice without breaking up your family. She didn't give you that choice. Mine didn't either, she only confessed to me after the wedding, after the kids. It's fucked up. Again, self-preservation at work.

All that to say, I don't have any answers, and I'm still working on my own answers. I just have a lot of empathy and sympathy. I wish the best for you.

WORD

LUNA10

I believe all these posts about how OUTRAGEOUS this WW behaved is not doing the OP any good. To the contrary: I think it adds a huge amount of pressure to “make a decision now, everyone on SI says she’s the worst wayward ever!” As you all know she’s not

Come on now, cheaters lie, very few of them actually own to what they’ve done without pressure.

What you need to know is that not making a decision is still making a decision. You are now in shock again. You’re back to square one plus some, as you cannot believe your WW was one of “them”, the cheaters that look you in the eyes and lie through their teeth. Take your time to process. Try to eat. Drink water (no alcohol as tempting as it is to numb your feelings). Plenty of time to make decisions.

Excellent points

Neanderthal,

I’m not one that carries my religious beliefs for all the world to see. But reading your last post an odd thought popped in my head. God must think it odd that I pray for “Neanderthal” to find relief and happiness from the torture he has to endure.

Good luck and stay strong. And I hope that you find your happiness as soon as possible.

Neanderthal - I'm about 6 years out from my last D-day on husband's infidelity. He didn't get a chance to trickle truth me. I didn't let him "explain" anything. For me, emotional cheating, sexting and skype sex was sufficient for me to know all I needed to know.

However, there are behaviors that transcend the cheating that your WW will need to address; the root of those behaviors is "selfishness".

And my husband has not completely earned his "f" in regard to selfish behaviors. Right now he's doing a home improvement project that went against my express priorities of paying bills first. He hasn't earned enough to pay for anything to do with keeping our home, the lights on, monthly groceries, etc. since forever. At least 25 years now. He exists in our home at my grace. Yet, here he is, out working on a project while complaining loudly that he's not getting any help...

Selfishness will kill our marriage eventually. It's already on life support. When I can be assured leaving will not cost me monthly alimony, if he's still behaving this way to drain my heart of love and patience, then I will leave. His whining about not having help on his pet project today just about sent me over the edge and I told him so. I told him to not dare to complain because he was already over the edge as far as I was concerned. He asked when I was going to stop hating him. I told him that I didn't hate him but it was hard to be around someone who blatantly was so consumed with his own interests he couldn't see how he affirmed that he does not love me. He denied that he doesn't love me; but doesn't know how to show it. I told him that financial support, effort, belief, building his confidence through action were all love behaviors to me that he was withholding.

Selfishness is a disease that's contagious. If you stay with her, do not let this disease infect you, as it will make life infinitely more miserable for you. And you deserve to be free of that.

I don’t believe any of us are surprised. She’s a master manipulator. All WS are. But she’s taken it to a new level with the way she’s used the forum.

Good luck with whatever path you take.

[This message edited by Mene at 5:24 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Sex in the classroom? She’s a massive risk taker. It’s just reckless and stupid. Dumb and dumber behaviour. I think she’s probably going to TT even more after the polygraph.

N,

From one LIer to another, we are not only bullheaded and stubborn, we are RESILIENT too.

Give yourself some credit. You thought something was off with her story and you persisted til you got the truth. Now knowing what you know, you can make an educated choices on how you want to proceed with your life. You said you know you can live with her but you love her. But is she safe for you to open yourself up to her again? Only you can answer that question. The good thing is, you have time to decide your course of action. Take it all in and decide what is best for you.

On a lighter note, how has everyone down there taken your your LI accent?.... lol

[This message edited by NoOptTo at 6:56 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

I'm sorry you had to find out that way, now you have a decision to make, you don't have to do it today, take your time, at least it will be a much better informed decision, btw I don't think you have the whole truth yet and I think there's still more however you know enough.

For those still lurking and reading this site consider the following when infidelity strikes, these are just some of the basics:

1) Never reveal your sources and Do NOT bring your WS here, this is your safe heaven.

2) Don't underestimate the value of polygraphs, there's is a reason they're used in law enforcement, they often lead to "parking lot confessions" but still go through with it.

3)It was "just one time (two or three)"is and will continue to be one of the most often lies told by cheaters, right along with "we just kissed".

4) DO NOT jump to conclusions despite a WS "doing all the right things" after an A, ALWAYS keep in mind they are PROVEN cheaters and liars.

5) Always demand/get tested for STDs regarless of how far the AP lives, it only takes a few hours to travel from Europe to the US and 24 hours to the other side of the world, plus there could be more than one AP or previous ones that you don't know about.

6) It takes years to recover from infidelity, 2-5 years on average if the WS is truly remorseful and does the heavy lifting to restore the M but with NO guarantees. So if you decide to give R a chance, keep this in mind.

7) Always consult an attorney to know your legal options and to consider a postnup if possible in case you decide to give R a chance, protect yourself financially.

8) Keep posting frequently, the collective wisdom of SI can help you go through this difficult and awful situation, we've seen it play out THOUSANDS of times.

((Neanderthal))

I’m sorry that this was the way it had to happen and that she was willing to put you through it all. I don’t think there is anything else you could have done and I think you have handled yourself admirably. i’m glad you finally have the truth. Now you can finally start the process of recovery.

How are you holding up? I imagine you’re still processing all of the new information. Please take care of yourself and update us when you’re feeling up to it.

The reason that the OBS isn’t responding is that the poor woman is being as manipulated as you are. She maybe doesn’t have the fortitude, support network or luck that you do. She needs your help even if at this moment she doesn’t know that she needs your help.

I'm going to get up each day, try and stay sober, try and be patient with my talkative little one, try and work my way out of infidelity.

Good plan.

One step at a time, one day at a time.

Om likely blocked you on her phone,email, and social media. He knew he was lying to her, and that it was possible your wife may eventually tell the truth, so he took steps to make sure you had a hard time being able to contact her again.

You know her address. Send her a registered letter that requires her signature upon receiving. Tell her everything your wife told you, and ask her to call to verify that she finally has the truth.

Hey man, just wanted to drop in and say Hi.. Your thread was referenced in another and I wanted to read your story because I suspected, and have now confirmed, our stories are pretty close to identical. Same basic track, minimized details, lots of interrogation, and the sexual stuff was truly horrific in my (and it sounds like your) case. Lots of things that were "Hard no's" for me (I'd never done them with my W ever, did them with the OM on the 2nd "date"), the OM was a serial cheat, wife was "in love", planned to leave and ride off into the sunset. Sex in family homes, family cars.. Pretty much a repeat of your story. I'm not dropping in to offer advice, just to know, if you want to talk, please feel free to PM me. I am several years out from the trainwreck, am still together with my W, and, despite my ridiculous post count, I'd consider our marriage relatively happy now. Yes, I have horrific scars because of what she did (hence my post count, trying to heal them), but I'm glad I tried to R, and while I wouldn't say our "Marriage" is better than ever today, there are some aspects of it that are clearly, head and shoulders, better than ever today.

Just wanted to offer a voice of hope for you, you can recover from it, with or without her. And it is possible to get back to a happy marriage from where you are today if that's what you both desire. It's going to be a different, in some ways (sexually, in my case), very different marriage than you used to have, but it is possible.

So sorry brother, nobody deserves this. We often talk about cases like yours (and mine) as the worst injury possible to men, and, while I can imagine worse (for both of us), this has to be in the top 3. I'm sorry.

Hey N I think you "knew" on some level. One piece of advice that gets handed out here often is to trust your gut. It is rarely wrong. Being cheated on fucks with our own trust in our guts. Trust your gut. It wasn't really ever wrong was it ? Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

If it makes you feel better in a misery loves company kind of way . . .my wife lied to me for 3 years

Even after Dday several things like it was an EA in addition to a PA were things she fought me on. We both knew the truth, but I needed her to admit it. I guess that is why I am so skeptical and probably harder on some WS that I should be (thus don't post in wayward much anymore).

Hopefully it is all out there and you can begin to make progress from here. This is rock bottom my friend and I understand all too well what that feels like. Please be kind to yourself.

As much as this hurts I think you logically get that these events are due to a massive character deficit that your W has always had. She has a lot of work to do on herself. That is her journey. From what you'd shared she is big on what other people think of her so likely the next step will be more of the same manipulations and spinning the facts to suit her narrative. She has further to go to hit bottom.

Nothing directly against your W per se, but the kind of pathological thinking that it takes to carried out deception like this doesn't go away overnight. It takes months and years to unlearned the way she has always approached things. It is ingrained in her to the point that she believes that is who she is. It worked up until now, so why change ?

I think it would be a really good step to at least get some space from her for awhile and be a good co-parent to your daughter. Seperation from your biggest trigger will do you some good.

I am really sorry.

((akward, one pat on the back, man hug)

I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but this is where the process could finally begin. Not R, limbo or D. The process where your life gets reconstructed. That is important regardless if you decide to stay M'd or not.

What is right for you ? Who knows. After the 3 years + of being lied to my trust is and was very hard for anyone to earn. I don't see that as a bad thing anymore. I lost my naviete and it helps me more than it hurts me in my day to day life. Military grade bullshit detection is my reward for that pain.

I also learned I was horribly co-dependent. I live my life with myself as the main decision point. My children are a part of that because that is who I am. Having a happy, healthy and fulfilled father is the best gift I can give to my children. Children need at least one role model to learn about character and integrity.

Yes, I am still M, but that is not central to my life anymore. My W got her act together. She is finally someone on my team. She got help with all of her issues. Heck I even like spending time with her once and awhile. She carries the burdens of her choices. I don't because they were never about me anyway. Your W choices were/are never about you. You can't force anyone to do anything they really don't want to do. Her continued lies were calculated risks she made and it will haunt her for a long time. Neither of you are going to be the same from this point onward.

I did eventually find grace. We also reconciled (different thing from grace BTW). It was hard on both of us. My W broke herself down to spare parts and built herself up again into someone I can at least respect, admire and even love again. It was painful to watch, but I had to let her do it on her own. It was not my problem to fix. My only choice was whether I wanted to support her from afar or each and every day.

How will it end ? Who knows. I know I am stronger than I ever knew. I know my kids are central to what I want out of life and I know that my continued good life is not dependent on being M'd. I will be fine regardless of what my W chooses in the future. I in turn make choices too.

Sorry I've gone on too long already. It is about being right with yourself and how you live your life. I know you are not there yet, but I do hope you get there.

The world is full of shitty people and shitty things. Some of those people are even very close to us. It is up to us to decide which of those people are worth a chance and which aren't. Not all of them are. Some of those people work at redemption and atonement like it is their job. Some avoid the elephant in the room and live a harder life than they need to because they are afraid of challenging themselves.

How do you know if they worth are a chance ? I will get back to you once I find a rock solid path. I took a risk. I saw more of what I wanted out of life by sticking around. Again, I could be proven wrong in the future.

The future is unknown for me. You know what? I am ok with that. If I survived this hell on earth we call infidelity I know I have the skills and resolve to face those future unknowns too. I trust and believe in myself.

Thinking, praying and hoping for you to get to that point in your future.

I have no words. Keep on showing the strength you have thus far and be there for your daughter.

I know you have enough on your plate but I believe that the OBS should know 100% of the truth. Ideally taking your wife to see her would be the most foolproof but obviously this may be far too traumatic for the OBS and/or you.

Please don't give up on her and do the honourable thing, whichever way you deem to be appropriate and having regard to the advice given here.

Good luck and stay strong.

Holy shit. I wasn't ready for this response from the OBS. I'm in fucking knots. I don't want to hurt her!

Here is what she wrote:

I am trying to build with OM, and it is very difficult every day. I wanted to ask one question in reference to your messages... Will this new information change anything? Does it change the hurt? Is it something that makes what they did so much worse that things would be impossible to rebuild from? I'm asking for yes or no, not detail at this point.

I'm asking because I just recently stopped being nauseated, sleeping through the night, etc. I want to know if it's worth starting over in this.

How do I handle this? Fork me!

N,

Here is the thing. Do you know how much of it she already knows? Me personally, I would say that the new information is bad from your perspective and then I would ask what she knows. Who knows, maybe she will tell you something that your wife held back on. Either way, you can then have a proper gauge on how much worse the information may be for her.

EDIT: Remember, you didn't do this to her. Her husband and your wife did this to both of you.

[This message edited by Kiba at 11:45 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I would tell her yes,it will change the hurt.

And it's the truth. It might push her into anger,and anger is empowering.

And yes. What you know now is so so much worse than what she believes is the truth. And,yes, it might make it impossible to rebuild from. Not because it is so completely horrible,which it is. But because it is impossible to rebuild with a WS who is still lying.

The better answer is, "I am not trying to cause you further pain. I believe you deserve to know the truth, so your attempt at reconciliation will not fail,because it is currently built on a bed of lies. You can not heal if you dont know what you are healing from. You are currently trying to heal with a man who is lying to you. If you would rather not know, please understand the truth may come out at some point, and any healing you have done will be reset to day one. I am not trying to be vindictive, or cause you more pain. I am only trying to give you the truth, so you can make your life choices based on truth, not the falsehoods your husband has told you. I will respect any decision you make. If you choose not to know the truth, but change your mind later, I will respect you enough to tell you the truth. "

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:50 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]