SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know I am going to be the unpopular girl, but there needs to be a little more accountability here.

This is not only unpopular but it is so far from the truth that it borders on ignorance. I write this because I regrettably posted the same thing...in ignorance

This man has taken on more "accountability" than any BS who ever posted. Which is more than one could say for his wife.

And most of the "accountability" is unwarranted.

[This message edited by 66charger at 12:13 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

You were swingers, you both went to a swingers party. The deal was, the lights went out, everyone got naked, and sex was going to happen. And it did. So I guess I'm not understanding how this is cheating. If I took my husband to such a party, I wouldn't be surprised that he participated. Didn't she participate? The details are a little fuzzy.

I hope you clear this up before you go. I also see this as breaking boundaries in a swinging relationship. If you were both constantly inebriated during the swinging, do either of you know what was going on at all times?. A mixture of swinging, drugs and alcohol is playing with fire. It is hard to see that as infidelity.

Another unanswered question. You wrote she only played with women and had never been with men sexually. That statement does not appear to be accurate unless you do not consider oral sex as sex...or you were not the first to break the boundary.

This is small potatoes considering everything that has since transpired, but I fail to see why you are beating yourself up for what happened during consensual non monogamy.

[This message edited by 66charger at 12:47 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

I was selfish, I took her for granted, verbally abused her, cheated on her those years ago

Am I "ignorant" or did this man just state that he cheated on his wife? Was it consensual swinging, self-bashing with a 2X4 or trickle truth?

You wrote she only played with women and had never been with men sexually. That statement does not appear to be accurate unless you do not consider oral sex as sex...or you were not the first to break the boundary.

I am not the only one who see some inconsistencies in the post.

Am I "ignorant" or did this man just state that he cheated on his wife? Was it consensual swinging, self-bashing with a 2X4 or trickle truth?

You may want to go back and read the earlier pages of this thread but in case you don't, Neanderthal and his WW were swingers a long time ago. One night he got drunk and started to have sex with another woman in front of his WW. She was hurt. He stopped and they left immediately. There was no deception and no TT.

Did what he did cross a line? Yep. Was it wrong? Yep. Did his WW have every right to be hurt? Absolutely. But a lot of people do not consider this the same as an A because it was done above board, in front of his WW, and there was not deception. One of the key components to many people's definition of an A is if your spouse would be comfortable doing what they did in front of you.

The other thing to know is that Neanderthal's WW has said multiple times that she does not consider this an A and did not use it as justification for her A. It was a bit of a messy end to their swinging lifestyle and realistically, that's a chance that everyone takes when they participate.

Notmine, this has all been covered previously. You can’t start at the end of the book and expect to understand the whole story.

As I recall, Neanderthal's wife was asleep on a bed, and he boned the chick right next to her on the bed without his wife being initially aware or giving him permission.

I think that is pretty obviously "cheating" and "infidelity" (as does Neanderthal, so why not go with his conclusion?) and it is pretty fucked up. But sure, it is not an "affair".

Lifedestroyer (his wife) was right to be hurt and feel betrayed, and could have shown up right here in "Just Found Out" to discuss what to do about it.

However, in my opinion that entire lifestyle is basically a sordid mess that opens up doors to people making excuses to doing horrible shit to their life partner.

***

Having said that, that episode was in their past, and the moderators are within their right to categorize threads and posters as they wish. I wouldn't have moved cantbeme123's thread to general because he had a flirtation and shut it down while his wife held onto her sexual cheating relationship.

But it ain't my forum!

***

My conclusion is that Neanderthal and Lifedestroyer are both people with quite a bit of damage, for whatever reason.

The big difference is that Neanderthal is able to look at himself and at least try to improve.

Lifedestroyer simply cannot break her mental cycles that lead her to lying, cheating, or even accepting being brought into a swinging sexual lifestyle.

It all comes down to being able to take control of oneself.

Good luck to you neanderthal. My feeling since the early days of your thread is that you and your wife cannot really be good together.

You both need a different influence in your lives.

By the way, I know a lot about Oklahoma. You might find the educated, employed, more secular woman you could see yourself with in downtown OKC or Norman.

Or many other places! Dallas ain't that far!

Good luck to you both in 2020.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:07 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

Lifedestroyer simply cannot break her mental cycles that lead her to lying, cheating, or even accepting being brought into a swinging sexual lifestyle.

I don't agree with that at all. She is capable. It's still up to Neanderthal whether he wants to R or not.

My gut told me something was wrong, and my gut now says to separate. But my emotions are everywhere

Your gut tells you to separate. Listen to it. I wasted 1 year of my life after not listening to my gut with my ex. If I'd walked when my guy said to, id have saved a year of torture to myself.

Your emotions will be everywhere no matter what you do. Bit a separation will allow your emotions to settle and then you can divorce or if she makes real change, you can get back together.

Posted by nekonamida:

I don't agree with that at all. She is capable. It's still up to Neanderthal whether he wants to R or not.

Okay, let me amend: "Thus far Lifedestroyer simply cannot break her mental cycles that lead her to lying, cheating, or even accepting being brought into a swinging sexual lifestyle."

And of course, that is just my opinion based on what I have read from her.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:40 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

Lifedestroyer (his wife) was right to be hurt and feel betrayed, and could have shown up right here in "Just Found Out" to discuss what to do about it.

The advice may have been that feeling betrayed is a little hypocritical, if you fell asleep after having sex with another woman and giving a guy other than your husband a blowjob. They were swinging and probably high/drunk. Big surprise that the fire jumped.

Boundaries often get crossed in swinging/open relationships. You try something, it doesn't work out and you move on. That's how most couples handle experimentation.

If he wants to label himself a cheater while his wife was free to have sex with women AND MEN, that is his choice. In my view a apple is not a orange and this has no bearing on what transpired in 2019. Beating himself with this just seems wrong.

Posted by 66charger:

The advice may have been that feeling betrayed is a little hypocritical, if you fell asleep after having sex with another woman and giving a guy other than your husband a blowjob.

Was that the actual story? I don't recall that and don't want to re-read the thread.

In any case, it was Neanderthal who wanted his wife to be in the swinging lifestyle, and they established their rules for what was allowed, just like any relationship. He violated them.

They were swinging and probably high/drunk. Big surprise that the fire jumped.

I am pretty sure I wrote something just like that in the post you responded to. Perhaps you missed it?

Here you go, for your convenience: However, in my opinion that entire lifestyle is basically a sordid mess that opens up doors to people making excuses to doing horrible shit to their life partner.

Boundaries often get crossed in swinging/open relationships. You try something, it doesn't work out and you move on. That's how most couples handle experimentation.

That's a pretty interesting interpretation of the incident. Also completely different from the person who actually did it. Perhaps make that case to him?

If he wants to label himself a cheater while his wife was free to have sex with women AND MEN, that is his choice. In my view a apple is not a orange and this has no bearing on what transpired in 2019. Beating himself with this just seems wrong.

Again, he initiated the lifestyle, they had their rules, I guess maybe it means something to them that those rules were violated. Minimizing her pain because you don't think they should respect their own rules seems a bit callous to me.

And again, this is his point of view, so I guess your argument is with him.

Anyway, this is all just my opinion. I'm not interested in arguing it with you.

Happy Holidays!

Here is my truth. I am hopefully going to clear this up. By the end of it, you will agree that I am wayward spouse pretending i'm something better than I really am.

The lifestyle was definitely my idea, and I pushed her to do it. We were always drunk during it. Like really drunk. Drugs only a couple times.

Are swinger rules were very simple. She could do anything with anyone as long as I was present. She was only interested in other women. I was just there to watch and get/do some mild petting.

During our swinging time, I always pushed to do more. I wanted to do more. I was frustrated to be held back. After all, it was my idea. I didn't respect my wife or her rules. Eventually over time she gave in and allowed me to do more. Two things were always off limits for me. Kissing and PinV. The kissing always bothered me, as I watched her enjoying it so much with other women.

She only had one experience with another man during the swinging time. She really didn't want to do it, but I pressured her to do it. Selfishly, I thought if she did that, than I could do more with the other man's wife. That was the one time oral she did. It was short, she disliked it. I fucking pushed my wife onto another dick!

The night I screwed the other woman, my wife was very much awake during it. We were both very drunk. I had also dumped a bunch of anti depressants in my system that day as well (no idea of the impact). My wife and I were having sex. A couple we both were into entered our room and joined us. All four in one bed. I found myself behind the other woman. I started to have sex with her. I remember hearing my wife crying. She asked if I had on a condom. I did not. I fumbled around trying to get one but was as limp as can be. Hearing her crying still haunts me. Other couple left, and my wife and I took separate cars home the next morning. I don't remember discussing that night, but my wife says we have, and I rug swept it.

A few months later my wife became pregnant. Very unexpected.

Fast forward a few months into her pregnancy. We went to a Halloween party at a swinger friends house. It was a vanilla party, but lifestyle member were present. Including the woman I had PinV sex with. That night while sober, with my pregnant wife in the other room, I kissed that woman. I was incredibly selfish, and just took what I wanted. This act is one I am the most ashamed of. I never spoke with that woman separate from my wife. We didn't have any other kind of connection or communication alone. My wife was still friends with this woman up until this fall, after DDay. We both agreed that wasn't healthy.

I told my wife about this incident sometime after dday this year. She acted as if I had told her about it before. Honestly I don't remember if I had. Multiple concussions have seriously damaged my memory. I didn't deserve to know what she had done with her affair person if I was holding any secrets of my own.

So my statement is very much true to me.

I was selfish, I took her for granted, verbally abused her, cheated on her those years ago

Sharing all this is difficult. I put her through hell. I was supposed to protect and cherish her. Instead I broke her. I am the reason I lost my best friend. She will become a better person, away from me. She will thrive away from me. She doesn't owe me anything anymore. I just hope for an amicable divorce.

I watched this forum come down on her for lying over and over(rightfully so btw). But the whole time I was acting all high and mighty. Like I had some moral high ground. I was a pathetic man not willing to face the truth. I was a coward.

I've shared all this with my IC multiple times. Hopefully my IC will help me become a better person. And uncover my terrible whys.

Mods, now you have the full picture. If you move my thread, I understand.

Again thank you all for helping me and my wife.

Wow just wow. I can’t believe you let everyone come down on her like that when you were no better. Hers now sounds more like a RA

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 10:27 PM, December 14th (Saturday)]

Perhaps a lesson here is for posters NOT to jump to inaccurate conclusions about WS or the lives and experiences of BS. I understand that people are triggered and hurting, but It is tiresome to continue to read statements that people make about WS (especially women) and BS (especially men) that are demeaning and not based on a shred of evidence (only a biased mindset). Neanderthal himself made a statement about this as have other BH.

I understand the motto here is: "take what you need and leave the rest". But boy o boy, does that give people a lot of room to say some stupid shit IMHO.

Please remember just how mentally broken most of the people are here when they first arrive. Most of us were very susceptible to be influenced by others. Mainly because we can't think straight while going through so much trauma. This goes for the wayward spouses too.

^^^^ Neanderthal^^^^^^

Just because a BH may want to consider R does not make him weak or less manly. Just because a women cheats does not make her an automatic whore. These are just people who are not perfect.

Well 66charger, I guess that settles that.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:38 AM, December 15th (Sunday)]

You are right, Notmine. I try to step away when I get irritated. A story feels old to me because I've been here so long; but it is brand new to that poster. They have the right to be confused and lost. My frustration should have nothing to do with it.

Neanderthal has presented quite an honest look at a complicated relationship. And while most BS may not have gone to the pushy or abusive lengths he did, many BS try to share their missteps and own their half of an imperfect union. True, a narcissistic WS will jump all over that and blame the BS 100%. But that's not everyone. Honesty and ownership can save a lot of marriages. Fault and Responsibility are not the same thing. We should let people tell their own story and stop "correcting their thinking" whenever it doesn't match our experiences.

I wish you all the best, Neanderthal. I relate quite a bit to your story as my H and I hurt each other along the way, and that's how we got here.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:49 AM, December 15th (Sunday)]

Posted by Thanksgiving2016:

Wow just wow. I can’t believe you let everyone come down on her like that when you were no better. Hers now sounds more like a RA

I'm pretty sure Neanderthal has been saying throughout this thread that he feels he was in many ways a cheater himself and possibly the catalyst of his wife's behavior.

He has also asked that people not dump all over her.

It's okay Faithfulman,

Thanksgiving2016 is right. If I had been honest sooner, the narrative would have been very different. My wife protected me here. She could have set the record straight. Instead of outing me, she took the brunt of SI's anger. I didn't ask her to do that.

66charger's defense of me really hit me hard. A stranger who was understandably skeptical of me in the beginning, was now defending me. I couldn't allow that anymore. I had swayed good people's minds in my favor based on lies of omission.

I will answer any questions and take whatever fallout I've created here at SI.

I've read all over SI religiously over the last 5 months. One thing I've realized is I have way more in common with waywards. I'm not just talking about infidelity. My whole make up is that of wayward thinking. The base of it is how terribly selfish I am. I don't think of others or the consequences. I don't have empathy. I understand the concept but I am not capable of doing it. I am manipulative, and a good enough talker to get out of most situations. I'm extremely critical of others. The list goes on.

Sh!tty situation, and definitely a case of you play with fire you get burned. Obviously what has been done can’t be undone. It’s never too late to find integrity though. It starts with owning your truth, and then doing the right things from that point forwards including being kind, compassionate, non-judgmental, and giving of oneself. Never too late for that.