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I think yours was delayed either (and I don't know I only have what you have said) because of the rugsweeping/avoidance, or because she is incapable of it?

Maybe a bit of both. She certainly got bad advice from our MC regarding letting me see the texts although you can see a pattern of her trying to recruit therapists as allies for blocking transparency. This continues even now.

Her own desire to avoid the STD panel was based on nothing more than her judgement that her AP was "clean" and her false assumption (and whether she believed this or not I don't know) that a pap smear checks for STD's.

Her avoidance of my request for a timeline is laughable. She has said to me the past couple of months that in the past she thought I was asking her for a "visual" infographic-style timeline. It was obvious I wasn't asking for anything like that.

Her avoidance of the polygraph then and now is just that.

The AP brought the wine fridge over to our house the afternoon of the same day they had sex. It was a “birthday” present for her. I was out of town. She sent me pictures of it acting surprised and overjoyed, and wasn’t it great?! — and that it was a couples gift from him and his wife to us (my birthday is near my wife’s birthday). She then prevailed on me to call the AP and thank him and also thank his wife.

Affairs happen. They are never good, but you find in most instances that they are done for the WS. When crap like this happens,that isn’t the case. They aren’t doing it for themselves, they are doing it as a way to hurt the WS and put them into a subservient role. My guess is they both got a big kick out of pulling a fast one on you and the other BS.

This was a friggin wine cooler. There had to be a massive amount of conversation about this. It’s not like he dropped off a keychain.

My ex also had me interact with her AP. It’s a big reason she is my EX.

Putting this in the context of all the other things she said and did, you need to think long and hard about her character. I do think that it is not necessarily so that once a cheater always a cheater. People make awful choices.

This choice was made purposely to make you into the butt of their joke

This was a friggin wine cooler. There had to be a massive amount of conversation about this.

She bought sexy lingerie to wear for this occasion.

Now, of course, she is trying to say it "just happened", she didnt plan for it. It was awkward. She doesn't even know if he finished inside of her. Etc. All the usual cheater bullshit, except in this case the bullshit persists three years after Dday.

She bought sexy lingerie to wear for this occasion.

Just so you know BFTG this is unclear. I've reviewed my own memory on this. This is the problem with gaslighting; it makes a BS completely unsure of things. In any case (TMI alert):

1. I did find a Victoria's Secret sack full of some new bras. In reviewing my memory, I don't think there were panties on the receipt but I can't be sure.

2. It wasn't uncommon for my wife to wear nice underwear from Victoria's Secret and still isn't. It's also not uncommon for said underwear to be "sexy"

3. It did stand out to me that I was seeing a sack full of new bras at the same time that I highly suspected an affair was going on.

4. I did find a pair of panties in her laundry as I've already mentioned, but I can't be 100 percent sure they were or were not part of that Victoria's Secret purchase. I squirreled these away. She found them later, took them back and washed them before I was able to have them tested.

5 (EDIT) And she point blank answered a question from me in disclosure and said she did no purchase any special garments for him.

Make of this what you will.

P.S. Trying to puzzle all this crap out is wearing me slick.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:29 AM, December 20th (Friday)]

double post

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:36 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]

Buck, your WW does sound like Mrs. Thumos. In response, though, you essentially divorced her and lived the life of a single man for 5 or so years, except she hung around so you could beat the shit out of her (emotionally). Eventually, you two started dating again and building a marriage.

In hindsight, do you wish that, instead, you had done nothing, allowed her to continue lying and avoiding, and just rug-swept?

Of course I wouldn't have wanted to continue down the same path. I was fucking miserable. Honestly, if I had a do-over, I would have divorced right away. I've spent too much time, gone through too much pain, tried desperately to sort through her bullshit, spent too much money, it feels like I've lost a bit of myself. Our marriage now is just okay. There have been gains and losses. IMO, our M is weaker now than before. I was 100% all in and that simply won't ever happen again with her.

I also cheated for 6 years total. My bullshit stopped around year 10. I had a 1.5yr RA at year 2 or so and a 4.5yr A a bit later.

Thumos, you're in the driver's seat. You call the shots. Your opinion is the only one that matters. It doesn't matter what I would do, or anyone else.

I will say, it's shocking how much difference remorse makes. It's a completely different feeling. The problem is, remorse needs to come before you reach the point of no return. I think I personally reached that point. I also have lingering issues from my cheating. You're a smart dude Thumos. You're going to be okay no matter what happens to your marriage.

[This message edited by Buck at 9:11 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]

Damn Thomas you start a topic and it goes 😂 Sorry to say you are in a Cycle that is hard to get out of if you can.Im not a downer man I was never going to comment publickly on your thread.Im half ayear ahead of you,Btfg has your best at heart.Everything!You have said that your wife has done is what I dealt with.

Some truths you will never get(IMO).My WW affair was with her (bff/cousin)husband my wife's boss to boot..They worked together 40 hours week plus drive.I have to see him everyday also.Its a tough decision no matter what.Trust your gut.

This was a friggin wine cooler. There had to be a massive amount of conversation about this.

Yeah actually a wine refrigerator. A large one. No small thing. They stuck it in a large walk in closet of ours.

Fun fact: One day, after she hadn’t done anything with it, I was sitting in the house alone. I sat there looking at it, fuming. I picked it up in my arms, took it out to my truck without a dolly or anything. My adrenaline and anger must have been at a high point. I drove it to a dumpster, and then literally picked it up over my head and threw it in as hard as I could caveman style. Shattered glass. A resounding clang. Felt good.

As BFTG has noted, would have been better if I’d dumped it in the AP’s driveway, but I was still somewhat in Mr. Nice Guy mode and being a Southerner always trying not to do the ungentlemanly thing. After all, his wife lived there too.

I meant refrigerator. You must be Superman. I have had them and those things are heavy.

The bigger point was it isn’t some random gift that you see in a store and say hey, mrs thumos would love this sweater. They had to have discussed this at length before he bought it.

They also would have discussed your reaction, and had a good chuckle of you grabbing a beer or some wine from the thing, not knowing the backstory.

How did she explain this ?

Fun fact: One day, after she hadn’t done anything with it, I was sitting in the house alone. I sat there looking at it, fuming. I picked it up in my arms, took it out to my truck without a dolly or anything. My adrenaline and anger must have been at a high point. I drove it to a dumpster, and then literally picked it up over my head and threw it in as hard as I could caveman style. Shattered glass. A resounding clang. Felt good.

Thumos, I thought about your situ and want to try a couple of things.

I tried this before and you kind of turned it around on me, so I will try again.

Imagine you cheated on her. You cheated on her with one of her best friends in your house, your marital bed. Your wife busts you. During the A you and AP install some piece of furniture, armoire, something like that, in your own house as a "gift" from AP and her BH. Once busted, you just sit there with your finger up your ass doing nothing to fix the situation. Like your WW did. So she has to haul it out herself or get someone to do it because you're sitting there with your finger up your ass.

What should she think? That you're in that blessed "fog" that is used to normalize cheaters? In the anecdote, you're acting like an ass, putting whipped cream on top of the shit sundae of the affair.

Here's another one. I read some self help relationship book that did not help because it did not apply. It featured the notion of the love bank. You do good things to put deposits in the love bank, and neglect, bad things are withdrawals. Didn't help because it had nothing to do with my ex cheating on me.

In your situation your WW obviously made a big withdrawal having the A. Now maybe there was a lot in there because you have been married for a quite a while. But to this day, three years on, sure seems to me like she continues to make more withdrawals than deposits. That's a long time to be drawing down an account. How much is left in your account?

Imagine you cheated on her. You cheated on her with one of her best friends in your house, your marital bed. Your wife busts you. During the A you and AP install some piece of furniture, armoire, something like that, in your own house as a "gift" from AP and her BH. Once busted, you just sit there with your finger up your ass doing nothing to fix the situation. Like your WW did. So she has to haul it out herself or get someone to do it because you're sitting there with your finger up your ass.

What should she think? That you're in that blessed "fog" that is used to normalize cheaters? In the anecdote, you're acting like an ass, putting whipped cream on top of the shit sundae of the affair.

Yeah, I've done this thought experiment Striver. I've also asked her to imagine it. She won't quite go there in terms of what her reaction would be but she's tacitly admitted she would have separated from me if the shoe were on the other foot.

Fun fact: One day, after she hadn’t done anything with it, I was sitting in the house alone. I sat there looking at it, fuming. I picked it up in my arms, took it out to my truck without a dolly or anything. My adrenaline and anger must have been at a high point. I drove it to a dumpster, and then literally picked it up over my head and threw it in as hard as I could caveman style. Shattered glass. A resounding clang. Felt good.

That is fantastic you did that! It feels good to get rid of those ugly triggers, a HUGE one in your case! I would have loved to have seen her face when you told her what you did with it

Any parking lot confessions? How is your WW acting ?

Good luck today ♥️

Update:

Definitive fail with 90+ percent certainty. No parking lot confession.

The polygraph examiner was very professional.

I won’t be blowing up my kids’ Christmas or acting precipitously. I’ll be taking some time to think.

But I’m living with someone who can’t be truthful or transparent.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:58 PM, December 23rd (Monday)]

I'm so sorry, Thumos. You deserved much better than that.

Sadly, this is typical.

What has been her response?

I'm really sorry Thumos. You deserve so much better.

See what's there not what you want to see.

If she changes nothing, nothing changes. Repeats happen.

You're twisting and turning trying to fix this and she's doing what?

Definitive fail with 90+ percent certainty. No parking lot confession.

What were the questions?