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Hi pgapro. I wanted to give you a bit of a different perspective and some things to think about. I won’t tell you to D or R as you need to decide that on your own, but I will say I do see many red flags with your WW and maybe a bit on how you are processing this.

First for a different perspective. I am here on SI as a BC (betrayed child, now an adult). Not only did your WW betray you, she betrayed her kids, the family unit, and ultimately herself. Your kids are too young to understand what an A truly is and all that. But where they are betrayed is their home environment is now changed and I’m sure they can sense that. You just got run over by a truck going 100mph so in that context things in the home have changed at your WW’s doing. She may not have deliberately been trying for that consequence of her actions but it’s true. She may not even have deliberately set out to hurt you. She may even be a pleasant person for the most part.

But the fact is that her actions has destroyed a lot around her. Of course she doesn’t realize that yet and she may never realize it. Only time will tell on that front. When she realizes she betrayed herself in addition to all of you, where she can truly see the damage, is when you may see remorse. IMHO she’s probably way off from that point yet.

At a minimum your WW has piss poor boundaries. She is a serial cheater and has it in herself to continue to be so until she shores up those boundaries and gets to the heart of what’s wrong with her. That being what drives her behavior. She could be the nicest person in the world with everything else but until that core of her is fixed, you and your kids will continue to be collateral damage.

One thing is absolutely certain. You cannot fix her. Only she can fix herself which IMHO is why IC for herself needs to come first. She needs to go to work to become a safer person not only for you and your kids, but for herself as well. Unfortunately you cannot make her go to IC to become a better person. She has to want to do that because otherwise what’s the point. IC will fall on deaf ears unless she wants to go and face her demons. Which no one likes to do. No one likes to be the “bad guy”. But these are things that she has to face.

She needs to see the damage she has done and that comes with consequences. You have to take action and get tough on infidelity. Yes, STD testing is a good start. I would also say regardless if you R or D, you need to see a lawyer. This does not mean you have to file for D. Look at this as more of an education to help you make informed decisions going forward. You need to know the legal ramifications if you do know about the affair and continue to stay with her. What is it legally going to look like if you D. These are things you need to know. Finances. You can start to consolidate and get your finances in order now. This is a good idea if you decide to separate or D. Guess what, it can also be a good idea if you end up in R. There is nothing wrong with getting your house in order, but now is an especially good time. For lawyer the lawyer, I would hold off on telling WW about it until after you see the lawyer and get educated. Then you can play that card as you need to and talk about it with WW. FInances you can talk about now with WW. Talk to WW about getting a plan in place for the kids for IF you do separate of start to move to D. This is a tough topic but absolutely a necessary on in my humble opinion. Start with the school. Tell the school that there has been issue at home marriage and so that they can help keep an eye on things academically and also for behavioral issues. Also, school guidance counselors can also help recommend a good children’s IC to help with this sort of thing. These are the sort of discussions that you can start with WW now. They are tough conversations to have, but this is where the rubber starts to meet the road on getting out of infidelity. Your WWs responses to tough, necessary conversations, will start to clue you into what sort of WW you are dealing with and can help to further steer your direction out of infidelity. You need to be tough on infidelity or it will be tougher on you in the long run.

These are just some of the things you can start to do. These actions are a consequences to WWs actions. NOT punishment. I don’t want you to confuse the two.

Do you see the perspective here? That this has to do with your WW having some major core issues that only she can work on? Her boundaries are for shit. Even if AP moves back, chances are a different AP will come into play at some point. They already have 3 times and its easy for her to ignore all the collateral damage and just do what she wants. And if the collateral damage she is causing is something that she doesn’t want, then why is she doing this? These questions are not easily answered and require her to do a lot of work.

yop

1. Has there been some sort of definitive No Contact letter/communication sent to the OM? Did you see it or just hear about it?

I told him in person not to contact her or there will be dire consequences. And told her the same.

Not really the same as what I am saying. Your WW needs to be willing to cut him out of her life completely. Not because you told her to or because you scared him but because she never wants to see him again. She has to be at this stage for Reconciliation to work I think. You can't force this like you're the dad of teenager telling her she can't see the bad boy.

We are currently looking for counselors in our area.

"We" don't need a counselor. "She" does. Don't make the mistake of jumping into marriage counseling too quickly. She needs to deal with herself here first. If you start MC then what will happen is that the Affair will become a marriage problem to fix. It will become what can pgapro do so that I won't do this again. This is not what you want.

6. Has she defended the OM to you? Called him a good guy? Asked you not to contact his wife or him? Yes, she defended him by saying that he was sad and she felt bad for him. Yes again, she didn't want me to tell anyone.

Defending him is a bad sign. She should be angry at herself, angry at him and disgusted by their behavior. If she hasn't gotten to that stage then she's not remorseful I'm afraid. As far as telling people I'm not one of those who say to broadcast it to everyone you know but it is not something you hide for her. At a minimum you tell the OM's wife when you can find her. If you can't find her until they get back from Europe you tell her the first day she returns. You tell her even if you are divorced or separated by then. It is not to punish. It is a consequence and it is the right thing to do. You tell other people if it can help either hold her accountable or because you need someone to talk to. You do not hide this for her. She lives with this and it is her shame, not yours.

Omg,serial cheater! Run man,run!!!

Have her send him and NC FOREVER text, to the point, no sweet goodbyes, also EXPOSE HER with all family and close friends and have her apologize to them for her huge betrayal (consequences), let her find the counselor, she needs to be doing the heavy lifting to try to repair the M she WILLINGLY AND CONSCIOUSLY destroyed if there’s a chance at all for a successful R.

She may be serial cheater... I know.. I hope that with the right guidance this can change. She says she wants to, but... time will tell.

Just like she said she wanted to stop screwing the other man but could not. Yeah right.

Serial cheating is an ingrained mental defect. They can't help themselves. They do not change no matter how much they profess to want to change. I have never seen a serial cheater change. Most give the betrayed spouse just enough to keep them around.

She knew this would destroy you but did it anyway. Why? BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO DO IT. SHE DID NOT CARE ABOUT YOU OR THE FAMILY. Simple. You and the kids where not even considered. Don't go looking for other reasons. It really is that simple.

Oh - the affair stopped because the affair partner moved away...no other reason.

You are now her Plan B. The only option she is left with now that her lover is gone.

She will cheat again given the right circumstances.

Do you really want to play detective watching for the other shoe to drop for the rest of your life?

6. Has she defended the OM to you? Called him a good guy? Asked you not to contact his wife or him? Yes, she defended him by saying that he was sad and she felt bad for him. Yes again, she didn't want me to tell anyone.

I have a bad feeling that this whole thing is just waiting to pick back up when he gets back.

That is my biggest fear!

More than anything her protection of him and wanting you to remain silent shows that she is not remorseful. She still thinks more of him than you.

She has zero empathy for how she has hurt you.

I think your fears of a renewed affair are valid.

She may be serial cheater... I know.

May be? Try IS!

3 year affair? Why don’t you divorce her and look for someone better. Then when the OM returns she will be free to pursue the piece of crap.

You could find someone better. She could try to win you back before you find someone better. Otherwise she may be waiting for him to come back.

Give her some consequences for screwing another guy. You are the prize not her. Best of luck to you this sucks!

Our children are old enough that a DNA test would not apply, but an STD test is a good idea.

A 3 year A with 2 more prior to that, that you know of. You need to continue to dig, I wouldn’t be surprised it she hasn’t cheated your ENTIRE relationship, all of it, not just the marriage.

DNA the children!

[This message edited by DeWittle at 10:03 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]

I hope I’m not being too harsh, and if I am, I apologize. But after knowing what little you know already about what she has done, and the such little respect she has for you and your marriage, what will it take for you to decide to end it?

I wish you nothing but strength and luck

Edit: I also want to clarify- not that it makes it better- the sex with him was for 2 years. The emotional part lasted for the year prior.

He told you the A was only about sex. How do you have a year long A that is only about sex, and yet not have sex?

Pgapro,

You have been given some really solid advice by the other posters, and I do hope that you take them to heart.

Your WW is damaged badly, and she is a serial cheater. You will have to face that fact straight on. The more you deny that, the worse it will become. Rugsweeping and denial do not help in your healing.

As to telling the O(ther)B(etrayed)S(pouse), please make contact. The OBS deserve to know, and if you rely on your WW's boyfriend to tell the OBS, that would be a grave mistake, as he will not be able to have access to your WW if he does that.

Ideal situation is to do a face-to-face meeting, failing which, a voice call. Never do emails/messages, as there are a few cases where the AP intercepts the comms, and pretends to be the OBS, and then the OBS will never know.

Does your WW have any cheerleaders of her A? Any friends/coworkers/family that enabled her A? If there are, they need to be gone from your lives.

As to counseling, don't waste your time on MC at the moment. You do not have a M to counsel. Do IC first.

BTW, what has your WW been doing to show you that she wants to change? Has she been pro-active, or just waits for you to tell her what to do? Has she had any consequences (letting you track her movement and read her emails is not a consequence)?

Her effort that she puts in to repair the damage she caused will be telling. If she is re-active (i.e. do only when told), then her heart is still with her AP, as she will drag her feet, in the hopes that her AP will come in a 'rescue' her. If she is pro-active (e.g. seeking counseling on her own accord) then you may have a chance at R.

If you think about it, the amount of effort that a WS expends on their As, it is quite a lot. The crafting of stories, the scheduling of the times, the logistics of travel/hotel rooms/locations/times/et al, is not simple. So, if the WS says they are not able to arrange for counseling, that goes to show you that they are not interesting in expending effort on the M.

Remorseful WS will be moving heaven and earth to try and regain the trust and the M. They will take on any Herculean tasks to make sure the M survives.

edit- Have any of you every wished you just never found out?

You are asking this because you want this whole situation to go away and go back to the happy family life you had. It’s very typical and a normal reaction.

As you probably suspect, we can’t go back in time and us BS have to address the situation head on.

You will need to get out of infidelity. You will need to take steps towards R or D.

Your WW doesn’t want you to tell anyone because it would reflect poorly on her and the AP. It’s all about her.

The only way R is possible is if she realizes the pain she is causing you, feel bad enough that it would never happen again.

If your WW went through this before with her fiancé, but still doesn’t have enough empathy to prevent her from cheating, it doesn’t bode well for R. That is why the good people here on SI are wary of multiple offenders (serial cheater)

What is her behaviour right now? What are her ACTIONS?

Sending you strength

As much as I love my wife, if she had conducted a three year affair with sex multiple times in our home, and she was sobbing that it was just a mistake and wanted to move on, I'd move on without her. And I have kids, too, so I know what a struggle this is.

I can't tell you traumatic it is to find out your wife conducted a three month EA/PA with "only one" documented act of sex in your home. I can't tell you how I've struggled with the trauma and humiliation of this -- and have been prepared multiple times to leave her, only to stop with the realization that I can't cope with being a part-time parent.

My wife, like so many others, turned on the buckets of tears right after D-Day and begged forgiveness and told me it was a horrible mistake. It was nothing of the kind. It was a set of deliberate choices and actions, carried out with callous cruelty.

So much more so for A THREE YEAR AFFAIR when she disregarded your needs, your rights, your physical health, your sanity, your family and cruelly cuckolded you for more than 1,000 days!

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:04 PM, August 30th (Friday)]

Thumos,

Logically how long would your wife's affair lasted if you hadn't discovered it?

Logically how long would your wife's affair lasted if you hadn't discovered it?

Marz, this is a great question and one I have reflected on a lot over the past three years. Here's what I know:

1. This had heated up rapidly from a "just friends" situation to an EA to a PA.

2. He felt a sense of conquest and ownership over her based on some things I have been able to think about in retrospect.

3. She cut it off with him on the same day that I confronted bc she had begun to worry that I had caught on (of course she was right).

4. The conversation I VAR'd was only in the week before this, and they were continuing to heat up and he was pressing for more.

5. He had plans to set up a vacant property as a f*ckpad.

6. He had at least talked about getting them both burner phones.

That's tip of the iceberg. So if I hadn't been tuned into my spouse, known something was wrong very quickly and taken action to confront, I think it's very possible (if not probable) it could have gone on much longer, become much more limerant and intensified a branch-swinging hypergamous aspect that was in some sense already present (he has family money, although he himself is a layabout).

So, in my mind, as to the substance of your question, I have always treated this "as if" it were a long-term affair substantively, and "as if" they had sex many more times (even if they didn't) and "as if" I was actively being positioned for divorce rape.

Someone else made the point awhile back that from what they could discern, it looked like my wife was making me her sexual plan B and was in the process of quickly making the "better man" OM her sexual plan A (with attendant aggressive gaslighting etc.)

I pointed this out in detail to my wife the other day, including that she was at the peak of ovulation when the sex was arranged for and carried out in our home, and her response was "I understand" (basically, "yeah you're right").

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:51 PM, August 30th (Friday)]

She cut it off with him on the same day that I confronted bc she had begun to worry that I had caught on (of course she was right).

You know this is a lie, right?

I've heard this one many times before.

You should have made it mandatory upfront. Deleted text message recovery.

It's common upfront. You're in shock and just want them back. Later if you don't get the full truth then buyers remourse sets in.

I get it. No one knows much nor ever expected to deal with this. Right now you are in an untrusting and compromised condition. Figure out what you need. Make it conditional because if you don't this'll just linger on.

Marz and Thumos are making a good point.

pgapro, if you hadn't looked at your WW's phone, what would have stopped the A from continuing? They may not have been able to continue to meet, but the EA would have continued.

Your WW has said she was sorry, many times. Words are easy. Like the words she used with you for the last 3 years while carrying on her A. What ACTIONS is she taking to show you that she is putting your needs first? From what you have been communicating, I have seen nothing. She defended AP. Doesn't want you to contact OBS. She only admits to things you have proof of. She is in CYA mode. She is trying to minimize. She is doing only what you ask to prevent D.

Right now, you should be worried about what will happen when AP returns. So far, your WW is giving you no indication that she has changed. Right now, you appear to be Plan B, and she is biding her time.

Are you OK with that? Because you shouldn't be.

You know this is a lie, right?

Actually in my case it’s not. The net was closing in around her and she told him she wanted to end it before I confronted her that evening. Because by that day I had figured out his burner phone number and they were starting to panic. But you make a good point.

You should have made it mandatory upfront. Deleted text message recovery.

I know, but I didn’t. And the phone’s gone. It would take FBI level forensics to get the texts back at this late date.

So now I have to figure out if we can move forward regardless.

I will see what WW comes up with in terms of folo thru on the written timeline and scheduling a polygraph. I told her I would give her some time; it’s not exactly something that can be written in a day or even a week if you want details.

I will also be discussing with my MIL why she didn’t want me to see the texts (my MIL is a sweet woman and I understand her real motive is keeping the family intact for the kids, not so much in protecting her daughter - she has in no way condoned or defended her daughter’s decisions).