SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

elk

I have nothing to add, just spent a crazy amt of time reading this thread. BR, fantastic job handling all of this. I could tell from the first few pages that you had this thing figured out and weren't making the usual mistakes.

any update on when the polygraph will happen? I might have missed it, I skipped the last few pages.

Yes it happened. She passed all the questions.

BFTG

Yet my mind keeps coming back to the same question: "Why?

I wrote out a pretty detailed explanation as to my thoughts and beliefs on why this happened. It is in the thread. I guess if I believe I know the why I can live with it. At this point I really see no point into continued to digging and looking for something that may be no more accurate.

None of us have any way of knowing what we will think years from now. When someone figures out how to accurately predict that, I will bet that become wealthier than Zuckerberg.

And i will bet if I told all these details to five therapists i would not get the same answer from more than two. It is not a quantitative science.

An example would be a thread that almost everyone here is following here. His wife lied her ass off to some therapist who apparently never called her out and dug into the story. Everyone on SI turned out to be smarter.

In addition, as you note in the enumerated factors above, "on paper" your marriage is a very strong candidate for R.

It would appear that is correct. If what she has done so far does not make her a bit more than a good candidate for R, please point me somewhere who is much better. I'm just not buying therapy is necessary all the time.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm just not buying therapy is necessary all the time.

I think you are correct. Not to mention finding a good qualified MC is at best 50/50.

I'm just not buying therapy is necessary all the time.

An article in Psychology Today about ten years ago notes that cheating is, for the most part, an addictive behavior. Like an alcoholic attends AA meeting for life, so the recommend a betrayer from a 12-step sort of group or something like that pretty much for life as well. If you read posts from Hikingout, she took it upon herself to search diligently for what was broken within her and then how to fix it. My thinking is that unless a betrayer is like that, they need to be in some form of help group.

Take time to get your wits about you learn as much as you can about what’s been going on. Notifications to other spouses are a must to stop them from being hurt further. Don’t jump to do anything rash. Take time to breathe and find things to make you happy right now. Go fishing, camping what ever you like that lets you get back you. Maybe she will get it together and have a change of heart and realize what’s she done to you and your family. She has to heal you IF you stay together but you have to have complete transparency and I can think it take more then most Ws can handle. This is not an over night thing it’s the hardest thing for someone to give themselves to heal you because you go through so much being the bs. This can take years and a lot of hard work, pain and suffering but she did this should be woman enough to do what it takes.

You might want to read through the whole story.

I wrote out a pretty detailed explanation as to my thoughts and beliefs on why this happened. It is in the thread. I guess if I believe I know the why I can live with it.

Yes, I recall this. You describe a pretty classic midlife crisis scenario, exacerbated a bit because your WW was a woman who has lived a life being the star, the adored one, the center of attention.

One of the limits of a forum like this is that we can only offer advice based on what posters tell us. You tend to post more about your personal thoughts, observations, conclusions, etc., and less about interactions between you and your WW. Thus, I read your post as describing your own personal conclusions and assumptions about her "why", as opposed to her figuring it out.

The reason I have come back to that is because she is the one who made the decision to cheat. You can understand this decision as much as you want, but if she doesn't understand it, then she's not a safe spouse. As many have said here, it is the difference between an addict who is in recovery versus one who is merely white knuckling it (aka a "dry drunk").

I've been following your thread since the beginning and as many here has cheered for you initially and not so much recently.

Obviously, my opinion is only based on your posts here, nevertheless I could feel how you slide back into "normalcy" only 4 months after DDay!!

It is incomprehensible for me, and I apologize before hand. I would have stayed away from your thread if I felt you were this devastated BH, who is firmly on the roller coster ride following DDay, but you seem so over your WW's As already!

Somehow you focus so much on your WW being an ideal candidate for R.

I do not really care about my WH's remorse, it sure is a factor, but what is profoundly more important is my acceptance of WH's A as part of our relationship, him being a traitor and showing me unprecedented disrespect. 3.5 years after DDay I'm nowhere near accepting it.

Ok, your WW never planned to D, she just wanted some fun on the side until she got caught, after which her cost/benefit analysis and somewhat satisfied desires made her to conclude that all that is not worth to go through the consequences of D. How does that make her any better than any WS on this forum? She is as selfish, entitled, disrespectful and treacherous as any other WS.

I personally feel appalled that a mother of 4 girls set up such an example for them.

Reading your recent posts, I often find asking myself 'is that it? are these are all the consequences she got?". I hope that I am wrong, but with such an attitude, her conclusions could be quite different from yours.

Again, my intention is not to attack you, but to warn.If I, as a BW, feel that your response is weak, then how your WW with the entitlement issues feels about it?

free2016

Again, my intention is not to attack you, but to warn.

Thats OK. I do not feel attacked. The good thing about this forum is that there are so many differing views.

I could feel how you slide back into "normalcy" only 4 months after DDay!!

Why are you assuming normalcy? Is it because I am not calling her names, or insulting her. ??

I am not a grey area person. She passed the polygraph, there have been no violations of NC or any other boundaries that you might expect. And it is obvious I have decided to attempt to R. Now, it is said on here many times in order to do that BOTH people have to be "all in".

That does not mean to blindly trust but it does mean actually what you stated, namely to BEGIN to instill some normalcy into our relationship.

How does that make her any better than any WS on this forum? She is as selfish, entitled, disrespectful and treacherous as any other WS

Correct on all four. Now i will give you a list on what she did not do

(1) continue lying after d Day

(2) resist total transparency

(3) begged to take the polygraph test

(4) did not break NC

(5) voluntarily and without any resistance do anything I asked her to.

(6) get emotionally involved with OM

And by the way, many have told me NOT to help her by telling her anything but to have her do the heavy lifting.

I stated early on that I do not classify all infidelity in ONE BUCKET whether it is a one night stand or LTA. You are absolutely entitled to disagree. I do not consider what she did exactly the same as someone who put the job in jeopardy, brought OM into their home, carried on with the knowledge of friends covering for her, told Om she "loved them", or simply the short duration of all of this. You are correct. She had a MLC, did some awful things, and I had two choices.

Either pull the plug or attempt to work it out. If she had not done what most here would have expected her to do and if she had TTd me for months or years, the result here would have been entirely different. If you choose not to believe that its OK.

Reading your recent posts, I often find asking myself 'is that it? are these are all the consequences she got?"

Lets look at that.

(1) she gave up something she has been doing since her early teens, competitive running that put her through college. If you have not been involved in how many hours and what kind of dedication it takes to do that, then maybe I understand why you do not feel that is a consequence.

(2) she has worked very hard to be very successful in her job, and she understands that despite that there will be no promotions or new job assignments that involve more travel, which is exactly what would happen if she got promoted. Is that no consequence

What consequences would you suggest that are not revenge or punishments that will do nothing to rebuild our relationship??

TELL MY CHILDREN - Why?? Both sets of our parents are still alive. I have no idea if either my parents ever cheated and quite frankly if they worked through it it is none of my business. If we were divorcing it would be entirely different. How does creating chaos in our families do anything positive????

QUIT HER JOB Why?? What she did had nothing to do with her job. There are no other spouses involved. Both Aps were 30 and single.

TELL OUR FRIENDS Why??? None of this involved anyone remotely involved in our social circle.

Most here have told me you can't play CIA officer and to watch her actions. So far they have been pretty good and if you read some of these other threads here with WW, i am astounded you have them all in the same boat on their actions.

We talk about what happened weekly on a set schedule. Sometimes it is short, sometimes it takes longer. i do not need her texting me twenty times a day, taking selfies every hour confirming where she is, or every hour telling me how sorry she is. She did all that and if i posted that i would be told by most it doesnt mean crap, its actions and behavior that count.

I personally feel appalled that a mother of 4 girls set up such an example for them

This is the one that gets me. If my children were all boys, would it have been less horrible????. I said it before, MOST of the WW on this forum from what I can see are either married or in a committed relationship. And most have children. And what all these WW did is not a good example for any child regardless of sex, but most of these ladies are mothers.

Now, I am sorry if you feel I am a weak and terrible BH. You are absolutely entitled to that opinion. And I am sorry it this thread triggered you. We each have to wade our way through this. I have no idea what your WH did, and i hope you work it out with him if you want to.

The things I cannot do is predict the future. I may in a year or longer divorce. Who knows?? She may or may not cheat again? Who knows?? There is only one way to find out. Stay in the game and play until the fourth quarter or until something demands a change of course.

Thank you for taking the time to post.

Correct on all four. Now i will give you a list on what she did not do

(1) continue lying after d Day

(2) resist total transparency

(3) begged to take the polygraph test

(4) did not break NC

(5) voluntarily and without any resistance do anything I asked her to.

(6) get emotionally involved with OM

R is doable providing your wayward spouse fits a template that has a chance of success. Which she does. It does require both to work it through.

Even then there are no guarantees. Generally it takes 2-5 years.

I hope it works out for you.

BR,

From what you have posted, it looks like you have put the onus of proof (present and future) of fidelity on your WW.

I think it is a great idea, as the accountability lies on her to prove to you that she is staying faithful. She has to decide for herself if she wants to stay married to you or not, making her think of the possible future consequences of any bimbo thought processes.

You seem to be on the right path, and applaud you for it.

As usual, I have no qualms with your answers BR. They are all appropriate and as healthy as can be in my opinion, considering the circumstances.

But a follow on question I would ask is, do you think she feels she has lost anything due to her choices? Would SHE say she has had ramifications, and would those things be inward or outward focused if you asked her.

Did cheating on you Impact her emotionally, physically or intellectually in any way?

Have a good thanksgiving.

As a fellow BH about the same age, I'm less curious about whatever consequences people do or don't believe she should suffer, and I'm MORE curious about you BR.

If you can, could you help me by laying out what you think you are getting from this relationship now? As you know, this is something I'm struggling with internally a lot. What am I *really* getting from this marriage now that I have seen who she is, and have suffered the ultimate disrespect in my own home? Is it enough she wants to reconcile with me and is trying?

Just wanted your perspective as a BH almost the exact same age as me - what are you getting from this and from her?

Thumos

Married for 23 years, dated for three years exclusively (I hope? I think?) before our marriage. So we’ve been together for more than 25 years. I’ve never been unfaithful or strayed in any way. Just her.

Almost three years ago, my wife had a three-month EA and PA with a married friend of ours, a father of another child at our youngest child’s school (my wife at first tried to minimize this as a 6-week affair, but the text and phone call records indicate it was a 3-month affair).

They had sex in our home when I was out of town for a business trip. I increasingly believe it was in our bed, but she insists it wasn’t. She also insists this was the one and only time and that she never provided him with oral or anything else — don’t they all say this sh*t?

She refused to let me see the texts between them. There was lots of heavy petting, deep kissing, and secret meet ups in cars, at her work and elsewhere. “Dates” involving our kids.

I still have to see the POSOM several times a month (sometimes several times in a week).

Lots of triggering. Lots of feeling PTSD traumatized. Lots of feeling beaten down and empty. Gaslighting, trickle truth, love bombing, hysterical bonding, blameshifting have all been part of the package.

I remain very angry and very ambivalent. I sometimes wear my wedding ring for appearances but not often. We did MC right away (mistake) and aren’t doing that now. I don’t think what we’re what you folks here on SI would call reconciliation. If we didn’t have a younger child, I’d be out right away.

Thumos

I'll try to answer you but lets start with that we may be the same age and both our wives cheated, but thats where the similarities end if the above is what happened to you. I don't blame you for being angry and ambivilant.

Lets start with your wife had an affair with not only a married guy you knew but someone you classified as a friend. Mine did not do that

Your wife brought this POS into you home and you are right, probably your marital bed. MINE DID NOT DO THAT

Your wife refused to be transparent at all. MINE DID NOT DO THAT, DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE

Your wife got your kids involved just like Nenderthals. MINE DID NOT DO THAT

Your wife did the entire assortment of TT and all the a la carte that goes with it. MINE DID NOT DO THAT

So let me start to try to answer your question. I did not state the above to try to make you feel worse. I actually am amazed that you are even attempting to R given her post D Day behavior and actions.

So throw in that you have to see this guy and you still have no clue to the truth, my guess is how could you be getting much other than some stability of your situation.

What am I getting??? The opportunity to attempt with no guarantees a chance to rebuild something out of the chaos based on her doing the right things and not being forced to. The end result is still to be determined.

You are a smart man. Just reading your thoughtful posts that is easy to see.

Get the polygraph done as you have I believe planned and then you will have some basis on what you are reconciling with. And i would put a VAR in her car since this OM is obviously living in close proximity to you. She has done nothing to rebuild any trust. You do not believe what she has told you and until you do you will not move forward one way or the other with clarity.

You know exactly what to do. Just do it.

If you want more thoughts on this PM me. I hope I did not be too harsh. If so, I apologize to you.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 5:01 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Ultimately what you do is your choice, it's your relationship and only yours but honestly, I think she's "handling" you.

I spend the time to read through the entire thread and people as far back as page 9 pointed out that your wife was stone-cold about her affair, how she picked her partners, how she behaved.

She found a guy, then replaced him with a better fit, she on purpose decided on a guy he knew to twist the knife, she very much planned these things, bought supplies in advance, etc. Every single last of these things is cold as ice. She had no intention of stopping, telling you, or even took you into consideration. And the way she behaved concerning her affair partners was calculated and borderline sociopathic.

You say she did all the things she needed. Exactly. Your wife knows you. Your wife knows how to handle you. She knows you get angry easily, she also knows you're quick to forgive. You were ready and willing to forgive after a single sitting with her, on the cusp of hugging and consoling her. Coupled with how she acted and behaved when it came to her partners. This feels like stone-cold manipulation.

Best of luck to you, I might be pessimistic, but I think you'll need it. Because the reason you caught her this time, was that she got sloppy. Now she even has you help her rug sweep and hide things going forward.

[This message edited by Marauder at 4:14 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

I stated early on that I do not classify all infidelity in ONE BUCKET whether it is a one night stand or LTA. You are absolutely entitled to disagree.

I agree with this. I think most BS's do. But I would qualify it with the notion that what is "worse" is personal and subjective to each BS. We've seen threads here where a BS divorces after an EA or a cyber-affair where there was no physical conduct; and we've seen R threads after truly profound sexual insult. I think Waitedwaytoolong's thread presents a perspective on this, where his WW was truly remorseful, and transparent and honest, and did the word to the extent of her abilities, but the degree of the sexual and emotional humiliation and insult she inflicted on him through her A was so profound that WWTL could not look at her with love. He realized this and decided it was time to move on.

The day has arrived! Finally, BeyondRage has come to his senses and asked the SI JFO community to re-litigate his entire plan of action for his WS and marriage. I have been waiting for this for many weeks. BeyondRage now understands that what he and many others considered a thoughtful, intentional, well executed attempt to get out of infidelity is actually a porous, ill considered half-hearted and certain to fail plan that allows WW to control him completely while continuing her wayward behavior without consequence.

On top of that revelation, I am also glad to hear that BeyondRage has come to his senses about a much needed and much harsher set of consequences for WW. Personally, I am voting for four consequences to be put in place: 1) the standard “I am a cheater and always will be” tattoo in large letters on her right forearm 2) a Scarlett A on all clothing that has long sleeves where her tattoo may not be visible 3) a law enforcement grade tracking device on her ankle and 4) a subcutaneous implant for continuous dosing of a high dose sedative to keep her in line. By the way, this standard package can all be purchased at JFO Re-Litigate dot com for a price that is shockingly close to wholesale cost.

Wait, what? Am I in the wrong thread? BeyondRage didn’t ask JFO to re-examine his entire plan and every decision? Couldn’t be…. why would so many people be doing it if he didn’t want it?

If you want more thoughts on this PM me. I hope I did not be too harsh. If so, I apologize to you.

Not at all, BR. It was good to read, and I appreciate your perspective, so thank you.

The day has arrived!

This made me laugh, Trdd. Which I needed.

SteveSN

But a follow on question I would ask is, do you think she feels she has lost anything due to her choices? Would SHE say she has had ramifications, and would those things be inward or outward focused if you asked her.

If you put that question to her directly, which I have not, I think her answer would be a no brainer on the ramifications, which is why i did not have to ask it that way. She lost her entirely orderly life of work and hobby and non eventful family life and thats a big deal.

Did cheating on you Impact her emotionally, physically or intellectually in any way?

In a sense this is asking me to play shrink but I would say being asked to leave the marital home and complying, and then going through all the disclosure over weeks of discussion because of all the details provided would impact anyone emotionally. Physically, if anyone has seen someone cry constantly for weeks I'd also say that is an emotional effect, but many here would classify that as standard behavior.

I hope that answers your questions.

MARAUDER

You say she did all the things she needed. Exactly. Your wife knows you. Your wife knows how to handle you. She knows you get angry easily, she also knows you're quick to forgive. You were ready and willing to forgive after a single sitting with her, on the cusp of hugging and consoling her. Coupled with how she acted and behaved when it came to her partners. This feels like stone-cold manipulation.

Not sure how you came up with that I forgave her so quickly. She took a polygraph well after D Day knowing what could happen if she failed.

Correct on all four. Now i will give you a list on what she did not do

(6) get emotionally involved with OM

The above is a list i posted to someone else. Yup, she knows me inside and out. But if you want to call her actions manipulation, be my guest. But i would place a wager that if you presented every action she did to EVERY BH on this forum, the overwhelming percentage would be more than willing to be "manipulated" by those actions rather than what they are getting.

Not sure how you could read this thread and also say she hid things. You might want to re read what she voluntarily turned over to me without deleting anything.

But you have every right to have a pessimistic opinion. Everyone on this forum has an opinion.

TRDD

Wait, what? Am I in the wrong thread? BeyondRage didn’t ask JFO to re-examine his entire plan and every decision? Couldn’t be…. why would so many people be doing it if he didn’t want it?

Interesting. I did read that super long Space Ghost thread, and most of the last 20 pages were people arguing with each other about whether or not he should divorce when in the first page or two he made it clear he was going to do and he followed through.

Its all OK. There wouldn't be 70000 or more members of this forum if anyone could always get it right.

I haven't posted on here in a long time but I do read the posts almost every day. I just wanted to say that I am impressed with the way you handle things. The way you think, reason, and respond. I believe you are doing a good job handling everything. Just wanted to tell you.

Interesting. I did read that super long Space Ghost thread, and most of the last 20 pages were people arguing with each other about whether or not he should divorce when in the first page or two he made it clear he was going to do and he followed through.

Honestly, I don't think most people here are trying to force you to make any one decision. I personally am not. It's more listening to your thoughts, what happened, etc, and then trying to give you advice in one way or another.

In my case maybe I'm just jaded. But to me personally, it feels like someone walking straight into danger. That's obviously subjective, and it might turn out completely wrong. It often just feels like the betrayed spouses underestimate the cheating one, a lot.