SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There is nothing wrong with knowing that for you, your wife planning to sleep with someone, lying about it, then actually sleeping with some other guy being a deal breaker for you and your marriage. It was for me. I had other friends that we t through similar situations and it seems that me filing for divorce immediately helped me heal significantly faster than the others.

I’m sorry that she has done this to you.

Stay strong and kneel moving forward out of the hell she has put you in

Thanks ramius, would have thought your comment would make me hurt, but insteadhad the opposite impact. So true. Hits home. Makes me feel better about gtfo asap. And thank god it's just the finances that could be complicated. Not excited about being a divorcee but starting to see more of that silver lining, could be way worse. Yall are great.

Getting therapy for myself. So I can focus on me for a while. And so I can be an even better person and pick a better person next time around down the road when I'm ready again.... And fuckin a I hope I didn't catch anything.

Oh God man. I have been where you are. Do not make the mistake I did. This never goes away. Never. A drunk and a ho. You can work with her until you turn blue, get her into the finest treatment available. Know what, she will still be a drunk and a self entitled ho. You will never trust her again. Your life will be a constant of doubt wondering and inner torment.

It's too late for me, but for all the gods in heaven, by the all that is holy, by all that you know is the truth, by all that is known and unknown, by the very soul you have, get out. Now. Please for your very soul and we'll being. Please get out. Please honor yourself. Please think of your future. Please just do what you have to do. No matter what she says or does or promises. It won't mean beans is 6 months or a year.

No hesitation or second guessing just save yourself. Just do it.

Find out the truth.

Get Fonelab, run a recovery on her phone.

They have a version for Apple phones and another for Android phones.

You can recover deleted texts, images, videos, cheater app messages etc.

Get her phone and do it now.

Awful, you are in trauma right now. There is a lot of good advice here already on tactics to get out of infidelity.

However, it needs to be said that people here have reconciled successfully after worse situations than this. Most people are telling you to D, but remember, we don't know you, your WW or your marriage. So many of us project our experiences onto others in the forum and they don't always fit.

I don't agree with the advice "you have no kids so you should D". That would mean people who have kids should consider staying in a broken marriage just for the kids... and I don't agree with that either. Your decision to D or R should probably come after more time and reflection. Not while you are in the trauma of having just discovered this. You have the option to do either. Both are painful and the pain lasts a long time. However, R takes more work over much more time and you need your WW to do much of that work to succeed with R.

Your separation right now is good. The 180 is the right course of action. She seems to be showing signs of real regret and that may become true remorse for her actions. Offering to quit her job etc are all signs she realizes she made a terrible decision and hurt you. If she is remorseful, and she may becoming that way, then reconciliation could work for your marriage if you decide to offer it to her.

Look at the posts above that offer advice about getting texts and emails recovered. WTFOver's 5 points are all good tactical advice. That will give you an understanding of the full picture of what you are dealing with. How she treats you as you are doing those things will give you insight into her level of remorse.

At that point you will have more data. If she gives you a truthful timeline, establishes no contact and you find nothing else then the picture will be clearer. You can judge her actions and remorse. Then reflect on the whole picture and see how you feel. Talk to people, get IC. Once you stabilize a bit you can make an informed decision to D or to R. Both avenues are available to you if her actions show effort and remorse. You are young and can start again, that's the good news if you D. But you have invested 6 years with her, not 6 months. You should make a sound decision with good data if you are going to end the marriage.

[This message edited by Trdd at 11:08 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]

I wouldn’t consider R until you get your arms around the full scope of this affair and...any others that came before. Chances are this isn’t her first time. Good chance there’s been other boundary violations of various sorts up this point.

I’d run forensics on her phone and any old phones she used during the course of your relationship. Look at phone bills and credit card statements or...just cut your losses and get together with woman you can trust. A life of babysitting, spying, snooping, worrying, just isn’t worth it.

I am really sorry you are going through the trauma of infidelity.It sucks to be here....

Look after yourself. Eat healthily and exercise. The gym is a great place when the rage period hits you.

Lean on friends and family in this difficult time.

Your wife is a broken person and she needs a lot of counseling for her alcoholism and cheating( which I suspect is more than once). This can take years and there will be times when she will relapse.

Reconciling takes 2-5 years, but you will never trust her 100%.

IC will help you become a stronger and better person so that you can choose a better person in your next relationship. Let her go. However consult a lawyer before you expose her at work as this might have an effect on future payments.

Good luck. Stay on course and stay strong. You deserve so much more than spending your life always wondering if she is with someone else when she is late.

In response to the last posts.. Here is my struggle with R. And yes I will give it some more time before a final decision. I needed to hear that advice, this was/is a very serious relationship and a part of me does wish we could work through this.

HOWEVER. My struggle with R:

The good: she says she'll do anything to help fix this, she is backing it up so far and I believe her.

The rest: I did ask for background on ANY infidelity of any kind and for a description of what happened (it happened twice she says and explained circumstances, she initiated..(Great..) and also mentioned she drunkenly kissed another coworker previously(wow..)

So sure she maybe finally came clean it seems. But adds to the infidelity (wow) and creates a deeper pattern (troubling). So first I pull more records via the app and if this aligns 100% with the story and nothing else is off... Then still consider R? I guess this is why time is needed. And therapy. Because even as remorseful and cooperative as she has been (offered full access to phone, computer, tracking, anything I ask for) this is really damning. Where do you draw the line, how many times do you move it? Do people really change? This is clearly a sick pattern and while she clearly doesn't like who she is for doing any of it, it still happened and as far as I'm concerned it seems it will continue to happen? Weren't there enough missed chances to come clean already?...

Guess I need therapy to talk through all that. I've reread your comment on R a few times and it makes sense. But really struggling to see the path or indicators that it will work. Effort and remorse are there so far but to truly change that behavior... What will that take, is that at all realistic to expect?

Thanks again for all of the support throughout this process. I'm so sorry to hear many of the similar experiences,but glad to hear the eventual positive outcomes on most.

She is very distraught and..regretful at least. I can't tell if she feels for me or is sad for herself. Doesn't have an explanation other than she messed up. Says she'll do anything to fix this, he is nothing etc. You're my everything I'm so dumb and what is wrong with me. I believe that.

Probably wishful thinking believing that.

If you're going to stay together, get to the bottom of what the hell she's been up to. Others have given you good advice how to do that.

This is likely going to be a long slog to fix your marriage, maybe years. You're a young man, you should think very carefully if you want this woman's drama filling your life.

you will always wonder. always. don't have sex with her until you figure this out. trust your gut... She is really giving you no other choice but to divorce her.

What would you tell your son to do if his wife did this and he was young with no kids?

Awfulawfulday, I'm so sorry you are here.

You never responded if the other man was married or not.

It's very important to let the OBS (OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE) know.

She has been hiding her relationship with the OM from you for months. This is not a ONS ....she planned and intended to be with him.

Among other things the following personality characteristics enabled her to cheat: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacking in empathy for you.

Why would you now believe anything she says???

You're lucky you found out what she is really like.

My inner dyslexic read your name as Awfulady.

You are almost 30. What do your 30's look like? recovery from this is a slog. Maybe kids? A joy of course (but sometimes a slog). And your 40's? What is your marriage going to look like then?

And 50? What would your 50 year old self say to 30 yr old you?

"Thank goodness I divorced the cheating alcoholic?"

or

"I'm so glad I stayed, sure I wonder if she will stray, but I'm used to that now. It's my new normal"

Divorcing is not throwing away the years you had together, it means you are throwing away your future together. Sad, but you will still have a great future, just not with her.

Similarly, reconciliation should be entered into because you think you have a worthwhile future together. Not because you have had a past.

Awful, your question about is it realistic for her to be able to change: Maybe.

That's a bitch of an answer, I know. You are most likely hoping for something certain in this storm but in life there is no certain. You could D her, find another wife and be out of infidelity forever. Or, like some people here, your second marriage could go the same damn route.

Can a WS change? Yes. There are great examples here of this. And of marriages that become strong and intimate again. But there is no guarantee. So how do we grapple with that ambiguity? We look for signs that the WS is truly committed to fixing herself and healing you, the BS. We look for remorse developing. We look for true NC. We look for a commitment to IC to find the inner flaws. A WS isn't going to be perfect at any of this right away. It takes them time to get there. Your WS is showing positive early signs. But she needs to be in it for the long haul. R takes at least a year, usually 2 or 3.

If you have a mind that you might want R, then take your time and evaluate her commitment to fix herself and heal you. That isn't a week or two. It's more like 2 to 4 months or so. At that point you will either see someone who is trying hard, still upsetting you or pissing you off occassionally but trying hard. Or you will see lackluster effort. And that gives you more data... plus more time to stablize emotionally. So you can then say.. "do I try to R and be fully committed to it? Or do I cut my losses and D?"

In the meantime, if you think you might want to R, tell her that part of you wants to R and the other part is so hurt, upset, dissappointed and angry that you can't be certain that is even an option. Tell her you will need time and she will need to work diligently to show you that she could someday be safe again for you and the marriage. Tell her you can't give a guarantee you will R. Time and her actions will help you make your decision whether to offer it to her, or to divorce.

Does that help?

I am pro D. Not everyone is, I understand that and realize each BS has to figure this shit sandwich out for themselves.

Just a thought on something that should be easy to see in your WW.

WW put a lot of effort into this A. She made plans over an extended period to fuck this guy from work.

These are ACTIONS.

What has she given you so far? What effort has WW put into the marriage since she got caught?

According to your posts, WW has given you a bunch of WORDS. Has WW done any ACTIONS to help you and this marriage heal?

It is early for you in this shit storm. Watch her ACTIONS carefully, ignore her WORDS, cheaters lie a lot.

WW did not need your help to plan her affair, she should not need your help in finding resources to help you and the marriage heal.....

Read some of the threads on this site. Look at some of the topics that are discussed from BS/WS that are a year or several years out. Can you see yourself living that way 2 years out or more?

However, it needs to be said that people here have reconciled successfully after worse situations than this.

Awful, this statement is bullshit. The corollary of this would be that people here have divorced for much less.

There isn't a scale anywhere that says if the betrayal doesn't come up to this level then you should R but if it goes over then you shouldn't.

The trauma that you've experienced is entirely personal to you. It is entirely up to you whether you should R or D. Your deal breaker level is yours alone.

The common belief is that it takes 2 to 5 years to heal from trauma. It takes time whether you R or D. It sounds like you've had some concerns about her drinking and loose boundaries for a good part of the time you've been together. Like you've needed to be her conscience when you're with her and anxiety on your part when you're not. It was said above and is so true that the planning that went into her meeting up with the AP wasn't done under the influence. Sober and eager. I believe you also said that she initiated. (My WW, too.)

I'm very pleased you've booked a session with an IC. Apparently, 70% of those who have had their spouse/SO commit adultery have PTSD symptoms. You need an IC who has experience and training in treating trauma. Do not agree to marriage counselling (MC) until sometime down the road. There isn't any point until she's done a considerable amount of work on herself and you see R as a possibility.

It is far, far too early for her to be remorseful, IMO. I suspect very much that she is regretful. Regretting getting caught and in full bore damage control.

The weekends are typically slow on SI. However, I'm glad you've received input from quite a few already. You're being heard. Welcome to the club no one wanted to join or even knew existed.

Actually steadychevy, my statement was a statement of fact. Your corollary is also a fact. But in this complex world of human beings those two facts can actually exist at the same time with neither of them being bullshit.

Sometimes we have to work just a little harder to hold two opposing thoughts in our minds at the very same time. It can be done, you ought to give it a try.

You seem to be assuming that I was saying he should reconcile. Please read my two posts again and you will see I never said that. Awful is getting a lot of advice to jump to divorce because he is still young. That is certainly a viable option and his right to do. It is also true that some couples can get through an awful lot and come out on the other side stronger. I am not recommending that he take that course of action but I am strongly recommending that he consider his options in a thoughtful way before ending a 6-year relationship.

Before a momentous decision most people like to hear multiple points of view. Attacking those here in the Forum that offer them probably isn't a winning approach.

My WW is also one that is truly amazing in all other ways. Day in and day out she seems better than I deserve...but you can't take away that one very bad character flaw.

You want to forgive, you want to believe and there is nothing wrong with that. I can tell you the mistake I made when I first found out about things was that I made it all too easy for my WW.

It's hard to be strong when you are fragile. However, my advice is to fight your instincts and just focus on making you better. Don't let your life fall back into familiar routines. Make this rock bottom now or you will be faced with this decision again. You might be anyway, but you can't give a free pass. You are telling her what she did is acceptable and cheaters sledom stop because of their conscious.

I'm with Mene on the run thing.

Here's why. My wife and I were together three years before we got married. About a year later, my wife, who was working in something similar to a Chiles, doesn't come home from her 4 - 11 pm shift.

I had an early flight the next day and go to bed. Wake up at 5 am. Alone. About an hour later she comes slithering in, swearing up and down nothing happened. Just one look and sniff told me she was lying.

Fast forward thirty years. We're still together, have three great kids.

Thing is, it's never been the same as it was before that night. I never regained trust in her, to this day.

Not to say we don't have some good times. We do. It's just not the same.

Awfulawfulday,

I am sorry you had need to go looking for this forum, but glad that you found it.

Unfortunately, there are no guaranteed one-size-fits-all answers when it comes to infidelity and reconciliation. It would be great if there were, but they just don't exist.

What you will find here is a lot of real-life experience, and thoughts based on it.

At the moment, you must be reeling. We all were. However, unless this is a 100% immediate deal-breaker for you - and I would guess it is not, because you are here and not already filing for divorce - I suggest you put your decision-making into neutral gear for the time being and (1) take care of yourself physically, and (2) see the coming weeks as a time for investigating and assessing the extent of your wife's issues.

Every relationship is a gamble; no-one gets married thinking, "This has disaster written all over it", and yet more than seventy thousand people have become members of this forum.

However, we can hedge our bets and make our gamble as informed as possible by doing as much research as we can. And that is what you need to do over the coming weeks.

I find it troubling that your wife has a history of drinking to the point where she would climb into a car with anyone. Not just for her safety - which is a major thing - but because it sounds like she has a history of doing it multiple times.

What she has done recently raises questions about what happened in past years when she went MIA. It would be comforting to think you have now been told everything, but I think it would be a mistake to believe that at this stage.

The fact that your wife initiated the sex means that you need to delve into those times when she went MIA further. I am sorry to say that, but if you are going to re-commit to being married to her, you really need to know what you are getting into, and what has gone before.

and also mentioned she drunkenly kissed another coworker previously(wow..)

If you had read a lot of the stories here, you would know that 'kissed' is sadly often a euphemism for something more. That does not mean it is 100% bound to be the same in your situation, but it does make alarm bells ring.

It seems that a lot of wayward spouses use 'kissed' as a catch-all for physical intimacy, or leave out the, "...and I also did x, y, and z" that could follow the statement, "I kissed a co-worker".

Many wayward spouses engage in a process called 'trickle truth' - often shortened to 'TT' in these forums - after their infidelity has been discovered. It is almost like the issuing of a series of press releases, beginning with a heavily redacted and sanitized version, and building steadily with each further statement.

I am not saying that to upset you, but to prepare you for what you may experience.

If you were going to divorce your wife immediately, with no interest in any further consideration, there would be no point to have her leave that job and workplace. However, if you are thinking of trying to reconcile with her, I think she definitely needs to get out of that job and being around those co-workers as soon as possible.

There are several reasons I say that.

1) If your wife has kissed one male co-worker there and slept with another twice, there is a fair chance that she has a reputation among the men there that she may or may not be aware of. Men love to talk about their conquests, and a woman who likes to drink a lot, and who has poor boundaries, sets herself up as a target for any low-life who wants to buy her a few drinks at a work event and see how far they get. For some of the guys there, she may be walking around with a target on her forehead. The problem is exacerbated if your wife actively pursues or initiates with them.

2) Leaving aside male bragging, other people there must be aware of what was going on. It is not hard to spot when people are 'close', and people love to gossip. It is quite possible that there is a toxic atmosphere in that workplace that condones or actively encourages affairs, which is not a good influence, and not 'friendly' to your marriage.

3) Any workplace can have after hours social events, and some can be 'safe', but many - particularly when booze flows - are not. If such events are a regular occurrence in your wife's present job, they pose an ongoing threat of a repeat performance, and they are clearly not safe for your wife to attend.

4) If it is possible for you to attend those get-togethers, and you are considering doing so to act as a guardian to your wife, then you may well encounter the two men you know your wife has been intimate with. That is a tough situation for any betrayed husband to be in, and often gets out of hand physically, or feels humiliating. It is far from an ideal situation, and not one I would recommend.

5) Although your wife could change jobs a dozen times and cheat in every one of them, if she is sincere about wanting to change and re-commit to the marriage, a new job where she has no baggage or history as a productive target for male co-workers to hit on would at least remove some of the issues mentioned above. It can be very hard to break out of a 'role' once people cast us in it, so a change would be easier to make in conjunction with a fresh start in a new job.

Getting therapy for myself. So I can focus on me for a while.

That is a very good thing, and I hope it is beneficial to you.

Your wife needs to get into individual counselling too, to discover her 'whys', and what her deeper motivations for cheating are. At present she may be in panic mode - aka 'damage control' or 'cover your ass' - saying she will do anything and everything to save the marriage, but only time will tell how committed she is to doing that forever more, rather than just a few weeks.

A question to ask when you feel ready is, "Why do you want to be married to me if you are actively pursuing other men? Are you as 'happy' in this marriage as you claim to be?"

Another one to ask her is, "Why should we stay married?"

Let her go away, think about it, and produce a list or a letter for you that contains her thoughts.

Her answers (both what they contain and do not contain) may be enlightening, and it sets up a dynamic that puts the onus on her to save the marriage after she fired some missiles at it.

It is not down to you to save the marriage; your job is to try and assess if your wife has what it takes to mean that staying with her will not be a mistake.

Your wife clearly has issues with booze and boundaries. Those are not small things, and they have impacted on the entirety of your relationship with her.

With commitment and sustained effort, those things can be changed, but it will need your wife to establish and permanently maintain a level of self-control and self-management that she has not demonstrated so far.

If she does not, then she will essentially be a ticking time-bomb, waiting for the next boozy smooch session at a work event in a year's time, five years' time, or ten years' time, after both of you have grown comfortable and complacent.

I think it is important to change some things about yourself too.

You now know that it was a mistake to accept your wife vanishing from the radar screen in terms of location and communication. That has to become a cast-iron deal-breaker in future for you. There must be no more, "Well, she gets a bit drunk and switches her phone off..." It is not safe for her, and it is definitely not safe for you.

Acceptance of her boozing needs to cease. She is not a 'safe' drunk, period.

If the co-worker she cheated with is married, or has a girlfriend, then she should be informed about what happened. Do not tell your wife you are doing that, or she may warn him, and he can tell his significant other that a nut-job is telling lies about him.

There is much more that could be said, but that can be done as your your thread develops.

A lot of people here are on your side, and want the best for you.