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If men are more interested in porn and VR type stuff, they don't sound like they would be good relationship partners and it's likely best they are out of the marriage pool. They're still getting their needs met and the sex workers are getting paid, so seems like it's for the best all around.

I tend to agree. At least individually I do. But for society in general, I have reservations about this. Frankly, we don't know if they would be good relationship partners or not, some would, some wouldn't. And yes, it's good that the "bad ones" are weeded out, but I'd put forth that lots of "good ones" weed themselves out too. In some ways, I think that you might wind up with a situation where more "good ones" are weeded out than bad. Similar to an A, if men who aren't "good with women" remove themselves from the dating pool, well, you'll be left with a group of guys are are very good with women; IE, "smooth talkers", "players", etc. The men who have "trouble" (who, in my experience, while less desirable as partners, seem to be much better husbands) with women are the very men who will "opt out". No, not in droves, at least not initially. All of this happens at the margins, but it's already happening with the "herbivore men" in some counties. And marriage/birth stats are showing a very clear trend away from both. Who knows, perhaps that's a good thing, more individual autonomy and fewer concerns about overpopulation and the death of the planet from man made problems. But it's a shift, for sure, from what we had for, well, just about all of recorded history.

Getting regular sex is not a substitute for a real relationship.

For some, you're correct. For others, less so. But you don't even need to go as far as "regular sex" to see that there are potential problems here. How many threads are there about husbands "preferring porn" to sleeping with their wives? And that's not even sex, and it's still "rewarding enough" to get some to withdraw from a real relationship. Thing is, it doesn't take a dramatic change to have a dramatic impact. If 10% of men "dropped out" it would have a drastic impact to the dating/marriage market. And the research on this is really clear, when there are more men then women, relationships tend to move quickly to marriage/children. When there are more women than men, relationships tend to become more ephemeral and short term.

It's going to be interesting. Not my problem, this is something the next generation will get to figure out for themselves. And I'm sure they will, but just not sure what that will look like.

People who want to be in relationships will want to be in relationships regardless. Getting regular sex is not a substitute for a real relationship. And if it is for that particular person, again- very likely that it's better that way because their potential partner deserves way better than that.

I concur.

If you actually talk to people who are foregoing marriage and children, it's mostly about economic status. I assume we're talking about millenials here, the younger ones, anyway. I think that's a good thing. People are making conscious decisions about marriage and family rather than just doing it

because it's what's expected.

I've read and heard so much about people (mostly women) who had children because that's what came next and regretted it. Not that they didn't love and want their children, but that they got married and had children before really finding themselves. Although, there are some who never actually wanted children and everyone is miserable. That's one reason I don't pressure my kids to give me grandchildren.

Since some Ivy Leaguers did sex work while in college, I can agree that some sex workers, probably at the high end, choose the work.

However, there's a lot of data that indicates many sex workers are essentially slaves. Let's not forget that.

Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? They seem to be better off as a society than many other industrialized nations.

However, there's a lot of data that indicates many sex workers are essentially slaves. Let's not forget that.

The industry for sex slavery/human trafficking is at an all time high in the united states and in other countries. There are people who do not see this as a real issue, that it's something that's happening in 3rd world countries, when in reality there is an alarming number of trafficking groups being taken down with an alarming number of captives. People think it's the stuff in movies, but if you do some research on what is actually happening, this is a growing problem, and many of the abducted are runaway teens. I believe there is a spectrum, and probably the higher end sex worker are probably more elite, and can be more selective, but that's not the masses.

I don't think if I walked into a strip club in my town any of the girls are there against their will. Probably a good portion of them would rather it if they could be somewhere else though. Some of them are likely there supporting a drug addiction or can't feed their kids some other way. I just don't see how that is sexy to someone. It takes a suspension of reality I believe. Do I believe there are women who do it who are in it for a short period of time to meet a financial goal and feel fine about it? Yes. Do I still think they are putting themselves in danger? Absolutely. Do I believe any of them are really there to get off? Probably not. If you have enough appointments to make a good living, my guess is they are quite sore and tired. They have to be super motivated by money to keep putting on the performance. Again, I don't see how that is sexy to someone else. I just don't think I could pay someone to do sex things to me and believe they were doing it with anything but faked enthusiasm. But, to each their own.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:21 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]