SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey Masters. It's been awhile. How are you doing?

Happy New Year all. I appreciate all of those who check in to see how I'm doing.

Things have been relatively calm, relationship wise. I was gone the week before Christmas in FL for work. I came back to NC for one night, then left on Dec 22nd for my hometown with the family. We had a hotel and things were busy with the holidays, kids, etc. We got back to NC on the 29th (my wife's 40th Birthday), and left on the 30th for a bowl game. We returned on the 1st and started work again on the 2nd.

I struggle emotionally a lot, but I'm otherwise ok. I'll go through waves of anger and sadness over and over again, then calm down and relax. For clarification and summary sake, this is where we're at:

-She's cut off all contact with him

-I have full access to her phone and ipad

-We're in MC together

-Her parents know what happened, I told her Dad the night I confronted her

-She moved back to our bed, saying it is driving an even bigger wedge between us, I said that's fine

-We're both trying to figure out if this is what we want, this marriage

I struggle if that is what I want or if I deserve better. I'm super physical, both hugging/cuddle/kissing, and really HL. She is neither. However, in our MC session last week, I said that and she agreed to make more of an effort in the physical touch dept, and she already has made an effort. She said let's wait on the sex part. We had sex once in the last 2.5 months (since I found out). I struggle whether I'm fighting for her or our family, the line is muddled. I know I'd be jealous to see her with another man. And I know she'd likely date someone older with a bunch of money (she works with high $$ business folks).

I've said this before, but I think this continues to hit her. What she's done, what it could mean to the rest of her/our life. She has mentioned that she would do anything to go back and fix it. She's sorry for the hurt she caused me. She says she doesn't know what she was thinking. What I have found out is that she has put up a huge wall against me for months, maybe years. She started sharing more with me, music, stories, and I realized she was cutting me out of her life completely, consciously or subconsciously. I shut off a lot and we grew far apart. We had a date night on Saturday and had a good time, and had a good weekend.

I'm taking things one day at a time, sometimes 1 hour at a time. I have a personal trainer and I'm getting in better shape. I'm playing poker more and will cycle and play golf more once the weather improves. I'm in the process of finally getting IC. I don't know what the future will bring. Maybe 2020 will mean a renewed marriage, or maybe it will bring a separation/divorce and something completely different. Whatever it is, I'm becoming ok with both scenarios.

I appreciate all of the support and tips. It's been the toughest 2.5 months of my life. It's tough seeing the first page of the just found out sub, seeing the pain those who JFO. I'll save deeper thoughts for another time, when I'm more healed. Just know that I'm praying that 2020 is better for everyone who has, and will, go through this awful situation.

[This message edited by Masters2020 at 9:54 AM, January 6th (Monday)]

She is no contact with the snake VP of HR? Does she still work in the same company? Is it possible for them to be at the same events and be traveling to the same places?

I am surmising you have not blown the lid off of his behavior? If not, why not?

-We're in MC together

I dunno about that dude...

She still works at the same company. She doesn't have any contact with him besides 100% work related. If she does, then that's on her. Either way, I'm not focusing on that anymore. I believe she's done with that and have blown up his life by telling his wife (albeit too late). I should have told his wife the next day, but I was in too much of a fog to make that decision.

I know MC is advised against here, and I certainly agree at times. However, it is helping us unpack some relationship things and figure out where we want to end up.

I told her if she decides she wants to try and work this out, she needs to come to me, tell me she's sorry, and vow to work on this. I told her if I make a decision, I'll let her know.

Nice update. Getting stronger and in a better mental and emotional position no matter whether your ultimate decision is R or D is so good for you. It is so much better than being desperate to keep the M. You have already realized a lot about your M. Keep following those stepping stones and see where they lead. Good luck.

Thanks for the update. We’re pulling for you no matter what you decide.

I can’t remember so apologize if this has already been addressed, but did she ever get an STD test to reassure she’s clean? Did you get tested to make sure she didn’t already share a disease from the other man’s microbiome with you? Did she write out a detailed timeline for you? Have you scheduled a polygraph to ensure the written timeline is truthful? And has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair and given you a written plan for how she will implement the book?

Also I assume that her continuing to work at the same company is temporary until she finds new employment? It’s considered near universal that when a spouse commits adultery on the job, then finding a new job is step #1 in helping you heal. If this festers and no action is taken, then I’m sorry to tell you that is rugsweeping the affair and you will have a very tough time in your own head later.

I think most of us here are probably pretty shocked that the VP of HR is facing no consequences in his job. This is tantamount to endorsing his predatory behavior in a position of power which is the worst possible VP post for someone who is capable of this kind of behavior and duplicity — a man who is in charge of Human Resources at his company who just committed the worst possible violation of his duty. He’s in charge of training employees on power differentials and sexual harassment and enforcing that very policy. It’s a real fox and henhouse scenario that is completely egregious and beyond the pale. You might consider to give this some thought along with insisting your wife locate a new job if she truly wants to heal your marriage.

Finally, have you consulted an attorney about getting a post nuptial agreement drafted now in the event you decide to divorce? A post nup protects you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:23 AM, January 6th (Monday)]

Also have you VAR'd her car to at least find out if the affair has gone underground, or whether she might be using a burner phone? It's not uncommon for a WW to be "coached" by AP and give you access to her devices as a ruse while using a burner phone and talking to him in her car.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. You don't deserve it, and neither do your children. From what you've written, it doesn't sound like your wife is very concerned by how much pain she is causing you and your family. It sounds like she is much more concerned with her own continued gratification. She is allowing you to pick up the slack on healing your relationship, and is waffling on whether your relationship is worth her while.

You don't have to put up with that kind of behavior. It doesn't matter what kind of a spouse you have been or how your relationship was: You didn't cause her affair, so you can't fix it, either, no matter how much you go to the gym or otherwise work on yourself. You deserve a partner who is committed to telling you the truth and only the truth. I'm not an advocate of leaving a marriage when times get tough, but if she were truly remorseful for her affair she would be equally devastated as you were when you found out. Marriage is a two-way street.

If she is refusing to have sex with you or balking at any physical touch, it is most likely because she has not stopped seeing the OM and has taken the affair deeper underground.

She should be moving mountains and going above and beyond what you need for her to do to save the marriage. She's not. You are getting a half-hearted attempts so that, when she does get into a position to end the marriage, she can tell everyone that the two of you did everything you could, including counseling, to save the marriage. It is all a sham.

I know you've bucked the advice about MC, but it seems like you might be getting glimpses of why we recommended against it. I would urge you to rethink this and go find an IC for yourself who is a specialist in betrayal trauma. Several are listed here on SI. Then insist your WW see a separate IC in the same practice who will hold her feet to the fire. IC's who understand betrayal trauma are key.

WW's often try to negotiate soft landings for themselves to preserve their self image. Being in MC with a WW who won't give you touch or sex (considering she knows this is your love language) is a red flag of a WW who has shifted her loyalties to her AP and is now being "faithful" to him instead of you.

This is why we recommended you VAR her car at the very least.

P.S. Individual counselors who specialize in betrayal trauma will often practically insist that a WW or WH seeing them write down a detailed timeline of the affair for their betrayed spouse to read. And many such counselors will even help arrange for a polygraph examiner to come their office to verify that the disclosure is complete, truthful and transparent. So if you sign up with the right IC, you can knock down three of the must-haves we've recommended to you since day 1.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:53 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

I believe she's done with that and have blown up his life by telling his wife (albeit too late). I should have told his wife the next day,

How do you know if she actually did this ? You should verify that, contact OBS and make sure she knows. So far they have not have any consequences for the A. It seems you won't deal with the sexual harassment aspect of this situation, bad move.

She still works at the same company. She doesn't have any contact with him besides 100% work related.

Again how could you possibly know this, just because the proven cheater and liar told you so ? please you still seem to be walking on eggshells and dancing around the issue here, based on what you posted it doesn't sound she's even trying to look for another job and why would she ? she get away with pretty much everything with no consequences whatsoever.

She said let's wait on the sex part. We had sex once in the last 2.5 months (since I found out).

She still seems to be dictating the terms here, you should take control, she should be bending over backwards to restore the M she killed with her huge betrayal, typically this means she's trying to remain faithful to her boyfriend, you're not even getting HB after you allowed her back in the marital bed, has she taken an STD test yet ?.

I told her if she decides she wants to try and work this out, she needs to come to me, tell me she's sorry, and vow to work on this

So she's still trying to decide whether or not she wants to work it out, this doesn't jive well with the following:

She has mentioned that she would do anything to go back and fix it. She's sorry for the hurt she caused me. She says she doesn't know what she was thinking.

She says she would do anything to fix it but refuses to do much, No sex, no quitting her job and/or looking for another one, seems like no STD testing, no IC for her, etc. Take control she's still in the driver's seat.

Great post Buster....

On another note, are you still pursuing legal actions against the company for not hiring you? The head of head resources leading you on repeatedly and never hiring you. All the while forming an inappropriate relationship with your wife. Please dont let your WW distract you from forging ahead with this issue. She could be running smoke for AP so you do not go the legal route. Hey you have said that she still doesn't want to have sex with you since this all happened.

Hi Masters,

Glad you came back to post and that things have settled down a bit for you. I’m very familiar with all your earlier posts. Sorry for a welcome back 2 x 4. Something feels really off with your recent post. It’s like you’re telling us and yourself that you’re OK with however this ends Everything you’ve said points to her still deciding if she wants to stay or go and you’re just doing a subtle version of the pick me dance by waiting and trying to be the nice guy,

Frankly, you have no idea what’s happening at work with POS VP. What happens the next time she travels? Are you just going to believe whatever she says? Finally, even though everyone on here thinks she fucked the POS VP more than once, unless I missed it you are really choosing to believe she didn’t. I think you’ve given her all the control and she knows it. It’s really, really time to stands up for yourself. You’ve got to be able to risk losing her get her back and fully committed.

PS – She may work with high dollar execs, but how many are rally single and want a relationship with a woman with three young kids? I think you’re more frightened than you need to be.

Hi

I have read about your situation with interest. I will make the observation that the withholding of sex by your wife is confirmation that she was intimate with HR boyfriend. In this situation, actions are crucial and she had given herself to loser boy. She is not having sex with you because she believes it would be a betrayal of AP

Take the time to look let that resonate Currently you are in friends zone with a few benefits thrown in.

I would recommend you continue with expansion of your life away from your wife. Be prepared for round 2 as she certainly hasn't recommited to the marriage.

[This message edited by ryno at 10:55 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

Affairs are like addictions. If you get the addict around the source you get relapse.

You have zero knowledge about a workplace affair. Only what she tells you.

Just because you found out doesn’t mean it’ll end it.

1 - she still works with him

2 - she doesn't want to have sex with you

Masters - what does that tell you?

Masters, I can't remember if you've done these things so apologies if you've addressed this:

1. Did she ever get an STD test to reassure she’s clean? Did you get tested to make sure she didn’t already share a disease with you?

2. Did she write out a detailed timeline of the affair for you and give you access to her devices so you could run retrieval software?

3. Have you scheduled a polygraph to ensure the written timeline is truthful?

4. Has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair?

5. Did you ever place a VAR in her car or anywhere to ensure the story she is giving you is truthful?

Masters dear, you are doing a pickme ballroom dancing competition right now - and you have no partner in it with you. I get it, I really do. I did the pickme shit for months too. But this situation does NOT improve until you decide to stop playing her fucked up game.

I would be very surprised if she has stopped seeing her AP. And you don't have anything to go off except for the words of a known liar... And if she has stopped for now? She will 100% start it up again so long as they still work in the same place. I am sorry to have to say that, but it's the harsh truth.

As for MC. Think of a marriage like a body. The 'relationship issues' are a cold. A gnarly cold to be sure, but still just a cold. The affair is a severed artery. Which of those do you think should be addressed more urgently?

Respectfully too - my Xshitbag said all the same "I'm sorry's" and "I don't know what I was thinking" and all the same load of bollocks your WW is giving you. He wasn't remorseful or feeling shameful or anything. He was a cake-eating asshole. And the worst part? I KEPT GIVING HIM CAKE!! For all the crap in the infidelity shitshow for the last 14 months since dday1, THAT is what I am most upset and regretful about. I kept sitting on the sick-making infidelity merry-go-round WAY longer than I should have.

Just food for thought from a now happily and gratefully divorced BS. Sending you positive thoughts and good juju Masters!

I think a key to remember here is my individual situation. It bears a lot of similarities to certain situations on this website, but also is 180 degrees different to others. Another key thing is that I can't do everything at once. I have taken advice given to me, but I'm simply one person trying my best. Certain actions I'm not interested in. May it hurt my situation in the long run, maybe. But I'm going to do the best I can do heal, which in some ways might be the wrong things.

Actions:

- I told his spouse 1.5 months ago. I made her write an email and have me copied on the whole string of emails. I should have told his spouse the next day after I found out. That's my mistake. Honestly, this isn't an excuse, but I wasn't ready to deal with that the week I found out.

-MC is not ideal, but it's helping, a lot. I don't think we have the best therapist, but the sessions help our relationship.

-About suing the company...Not going to happen right now. The attorney I spoke with (twice now) recommended against it for the time being.

-VAR, I would like to do this one. I just don't know if I want to spend hours going through recordings to find out she's talking to her mom about how to cook chicken.

-I have open access to her devices now.

-She and I are making efforts towards our marriage. We agreed to date and see where it goes.

-I purchased the affair recovery book, I'll read it, then have her read it.

-I will ask her to detail her affair in writing.

-I am seeking IC, just didn't have the time in December to search. I had a huge work commitment that is done now.

-She's not leaving her job right now. She moved offices to be farther away from him and the company is going through a potential sale, so that all needs to shake out. She's making 2x what she made a couple years ago and will not be able to find comparable employment. Excuse, sure, say that. If she continues this affair, it's on her. She knows my parameters and I think she's not going to stray again with him.

-I was doing the pick me dance early on, but I'm not now. I've gained confidence and know that I'll be fine either way. Of course, I would prefer to fix our marriage and live happily every after with our kids, but who knows. I'm trying to see if I can get past this and see what is going to make me happy.

Neither of us have any travel in January (rare), so we're going to work on us, I'm going to work on me, and we're going to see what happens.

From a health perspective, I'm better. I lost 15 lbs but leveled out to 183 (used to be mid 190's), I'm 6'3". I'm seeing a personal trainer and gaining muscle. I've been hanging out with friends more and am planning a trip with friends. I'm going to live my life and enjoy my time with the family, but also my own time. Our kids are getting older, 6.5 and 3.5, so they'll continue to get easier.

I know this isn't the popular opinion on this site, but I really miss her. We've had some good times lately (in the last month), and I enjoy spending time with her. We're connecting in a way we haven't in a long time. She's making efforts to do things for me, and so am I. I'm a lay it all on the line kind of person. If it works, great, if it doesn't, well I know I tried everything.

As far as the bedroom, she mentioned waiting because neither of us are in the right emotional state right now. Honestly, I agree. I want sex, but know it might complicate things right now. She needs the emotional connection to have meaningful sex. We haven't had that in a long time. I desire the emotional connection, but I made a lot of sexual mistakes in my 20's and regret some of them.

Like I said for a long time, I'm taking things one day, sometime 1 hour, at a time.

[This message edited by Masters2020 at 10:59 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

Sometimes sex can help create the emotional connection.