SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thumos, you're the boss, man. You put all this stuff swirling around in my head in one concrete place like that. Thanks.

Just hoping to help someone get ahead of this early and do all the shit I wish I'd done right away.

It's been alluded to here but be very careful about convos and interactions with your WW at this time. Record everything you can, but make sure you understand your state's particular law as it relates to recording conversations.

Far too many men have had false DV charges filed on them by a WW looking for cash and prizes from a divorce. Do not think your sweet, wonderful woman is above this. Do not make this mistake. She's not the woman you married, or the woman you thought was your wife.

Once a DV has been filed, she can go get a VPO and really screw with you during the divorce process. It's called "divorce rape" for a reason. Unfortunately, divorce laws are completely biased against men. That sucks. But it's the way it is. They were all written at a time when women were being left penniless, and there was good justification for it in yesteryear. Now women are economically independent and fully capable of earning a living, but the laws remain biased in favor of cash and prizes for wives -- yes, even for adulterous wives.

My own allegedly sweet WW tried to kind of maneuver into this territory a few times, talking about how "enraged" I was or how I was yelling at her. In fact I was doing nothing of the kind. I never even raised my voice. Not once. Because I'm a muscular man, I also would always purposefully sit in a very relaxed, neutral nonthreatening posture when I talked to her. Once I told her in a very calm voice, "I want the truth" and simply leaned forward toward her. She flinched back like I was going to hit her and gasped. It was comical and ludicrous and over the top, and of course I suspect she was maybe pondering the possibility of setting me up for a false DV gambit. I shut that down by telling her I'd been documenting our convos and that I'd talked to a number of people about her mischaracterizations and exaggerations.

As far as VARs go, while I recommend you research the topic and educate yourself about how voice activated recorders work, realize that using a VAR in certain ways is illegal in many states - for instance if you're picking up a convo in a room where she's talking to the OM on her phone and you're able to get that. So if someone were to hypothetically VAR someone, they would need to NEVER, EVER disclose that -- not to anyone, including the OBS or their own family.

It's interesting how VARs work: For a cheap price, a person can buy one or two at Best Buy or a similar store, go buy some cheap industrial strength velcro, get a couple of cheap headphones and plug those into a pocket VAR, then clip them off (this ensures no accidental sound playback). And then a person can hypothetically velcro that little VAR just about anywhere, set it to record for days and days and sit back for the results. As I said, it's interesting how it works from an intellectual standpoint.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:58 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

The tears will be for her though, not you.

Remember this. WW's almost always turn on the waterworks because it's an effective tactic with men. Don't lose your nerve or resolve. Do not buckle in the face of her tears.

Just remember: She's weeping hysterically for herself, not you.

Later, if she does all of the non-negotiables you ask for, and really demonstrates empathy and remorse over a long and consistent period of time, she may be reconciliation material.

On the other hand, you may easily decide she's nothing special and that this contempt and disrespect and dishonor is a deal breaker for you.

You owe her nothing. It's all on her.

If the A is exposed to HR, she may be terminated. This will have an affect on any support the courts award.

Not always. Thinking ahead here.

Very few courts will award more support to someone who was terminated for having the marriage ending affair on company time. They may follow the usual formula for support but no bonus for getting fired for banging the VP

It also depends on her work history. Even though my XWW didn't lose her job I made 30% more money than she did. During arbitration she asked for support, for a while to "equal things out. The arbitrator said with her 2 advanced degrees and 25 years of solid work history no judge she knew would give her support, they would say go get a higher paying job.

As others have said numerous times, Masters, it is unlikely that nothing more than kissing has happened. I'm of the same mindset. But even if there hasn't been any PIV or oral it still isn't an EA. Kissing and hugging is physical. It's probably more than that but it is a PA even without sex.

Lots of good input. I'm sorry you're here but you will find it's the best club you never knew existed or wanted to join. My heart goes out to you. Like all the others here, I know what it's like.

You were interviewed three times by OM and didn't get the job, you could also sue based on EEOC and claim you didn't get the job because he was jealous and was pursuing your WW, besides a D attorney, you should contact a sexual harrassment/employment attorney, he/she will likely have a field day with both your wife and your case, get the ball rolling to get OM fired ASAP.

Buster is correct here. You have a lot of cards you can play here. Talk to the OBS and see what you want to do from there. I do not usually advocate going after the AP. Your WW is the one to blame. But damn if I were out of work as long as you were and this guy was fucking with me like that with interviews while pursuing my WW you can be sure that I would go after him with everything I could. Hopefully you have saved off your proof somewhere safe.

I would go for his job and some money from the company. This dirtbag would be lucky to be able to get a low-level job when I was done with him. Find a divorce attorney but also an employment one. I bet if you do a no-cost consultation with one you'll find somebody that will go after him on contingency and it won't cost you more than time. If your WW complains I wouldn't listen at all. He shouldn't be allowed to mess with someone like that. You were vulnerable and he was laughing at you I am sure. It was a power game and you didn't know you were playing. It would be hard for me to not go in and kick his ass but I'd definitely do it through the courts.

Nuke the OM, Sir. Report him to HR, demand his termination, on threat of your filing against the firm. They'll drop him like a hot rock.

So, let’s get this straight:

Your wife who was having an affair with this POS, knew all along he was stringing you along and bringing you in for interviews for jobs he wasn’t going to appoint you to. That’s some pretty fucked up shit. She’s a nasty person. Both of them are really fucked up individuals.

On many grounds, he has used his position in such a way that it is untenable for him to work for that company. Please report the bastard to HR. Get a lawyer to draft a letter seeking damages for misleading you. At the very least he should be dismissed and you should be compensated.

[This message edited by Mene at 10:54 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

Lots of advice, and a lot of it spot on.

If she had a physical affair beyond kissing, it's over, period.

Knowing what I know today, after many books, countless hours online, and 4 years of MC with my FWS, the chances that this was not a physical affair beyond kissing is so passingly rare that if they didn't consummate their tawdry affair they should both win Nobel Prizes. More likely, they will both win Pulitzer's for fiction to their spouses.

For just how determined a "caught" spouse can be, my wife lied to me for 9 years, nearly a year of that (9 months to be exact) in MC, and lied to her IC's (who I had no contact with and no knowledge of what happened in her IC sessions) about her affair and sexual activities, etc. Usually, kissing is followed very shortly, in the next couple of encounters, if not at the first, by sexual intercourse. The weird thing is how similar all the stories are in their basics and progression. Just my experience and opinion.

Read, take what makes sense to your situation, make sure your kids are taken care of, and don't feel rushed into decision making.

All of our stories are the same, and different, only you know your situation.

One thing though. Another poster also alluded to this.

The part about your WS and someone interviewing your for a job but not hiring you but having sex with your spouse who works at the same company. That smells like a huge settlement from the corporate legal team. I'd lawyer up, and go after the company, and I'd be surprised if you would not find that a personal injury lawyer would jump at this case. This sounds like the kind of situation that could make a young lawyer a rich lawyer, or a rich lawyer much richer. At the very least, their insurance company would likely pay you off quickly to get rid of you for a smaller sum, but it won't be easy, the name of the game is to stall, hope you die or go away, and you should not expect a dime for several years.

If she had a physical affair beyond kissing, it's over, period.

Ok. Demand a polygraph.

If she fails....they had sex.

If she refuses to take the test.....they had sex.

If she passes then you can decide if she is worth staying with. To me, she does not sound like a good bet going forward.

There are women out there who are loving....and monogamous. So trading up is an option.

And yes, get a lawyer and go after the OM and the company. But coordinate those actions with the divorce lawyer. You need to make sure that your wife does not get fired before a divorce. Could effect how much spousal support will be paid.

You were interviewed three times by OM and didn't get the job

Master, you have my sympathy and understanding; I experienced something similar but I did get the job!

Long story is in my profile but I moved with my wife from one country to my own, then moved again within that country so my wife could take up a job offer from the AP whom she worked with on a short contract. I gave up jobs twice to do that. She started work and I struggled to find anything so the AP's company (he was a co-owner) offered me a position. At the time I thought it was a very generous and kind thing to do so I worked my heart out. What that pr**k was actually doing was showing my wife what great guy he was and what a loser I was. I never saw it that way because never in a million did I think that that would trump the 4 years I spent getting her out from behind the Iron Curtain.

It takes a particular kind of b****d to do that. After my shit hit the fan, members of his family actually sought me out to tell me that nothing with him was an accident and always it would be no holds barred behind the smile. This was given as information not threats BTW.

To this day the reason I didn't see him for what he was is because I was at a low ebb; away from family, little money, no job and an uncertain future. Are you in that same place emotionally in yourself? If you are, then how would you have dealt with this before he came into your life and you moved to Florida? If you would have gone for his jugular back before, then look at doing it now. Nearly three decades later I can still taste the shit sandwich from my experience of not hitting back because I thought being restrained, considerate and calm would be the best way for us ALL to get through it. Of course it was best for her, him and our enabling co-workers. It was absolutely the worst thing I could have done for my own sanity and self esteem. Thirty years later I work with the facts that I could have recovered from any financial hit and my wife's betrayal but I cannot escape the regret that I didn't stand up for myself.

As you have kids, their welfare is paramount but please don't discount that the price you pay for being reasonable is sometimes to high.

[This message edited by hansvoleman at 7:15 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

First of all, thank you so much for all the thoughtful replies and suggestions. I've been feeling so alone in all this, and hearing other people has made me see the situation much clearer.

I want to know if they've had sex, probably because then I'm 100% out for sure. I didn't think they had sex, then she went to Dallas and lied to me, and now I'm honestly not sure. You're gonna say I'm blind to it, which I understand. Maybe I just don't want to face the truth. He sent her a text about the sunrise out her window in Dallas, which made me think he stayed with her that night. She claims no, but she might be lying. She claims they just met for coffee. Likely a lie, I want to ask her to confirm. If she's not trying to move forward in any way, then it doesn't matter. But it matters to me, I feel like I need to know. If someone has a strategy to get that info, please let me know. It would save me a lot of heartache if she slept with him, while gutting the rest of me.

I talked to the guys wife, and she was in shock. It was the hardest call of my life. They've been together since they were 16 yrs old, and she is very blind in the marriage. I sent her everything I had and she's gonna call me this weekend with questions. I now know what she's going through, and my heart hurts for her. Her husband is out of town for the weekend (which I knew), so it gives her some time to think and calm down.

We have a couples counseling session on Tuesday, and I don't know what to do about it. We're supposed to stay in the same house through Christmas, and I don't know what's best. I want to do right by my kids, they don't deserve any of this, they love the family. I don't know whether to tell her I'm done, not trying anymore (since she makes zero effort, and can't even choose between her AP and her husband and father to her children. That part is despicable, she acts like there may be a future there.

As far as her job, I don't know what to do either. The attorney I spoke to said not to tell her work. If I do, she loses her job and income, and it hurts me and the kids in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I want to march in there to the CEO (who I know and have played golf with) and let him know what his head of HR (her AP is the head of HR) and my wife have been doing (at the office mind you). But, then she's out of a job and income is gone.

I'm trying to come up with a plan. If anyone has a suggestion, I'm all ears. My thought is to talk to an attorney, draft up a separation agreement(you have to be separated for a year in NC to even file for divorce), and make it for Jan 2, 2020. One of us moves out, I have no idea how that determination is made, and we watch as she comes home to an empty home with no kids and hopefully realizes what she's done.

Once again, thank you so much for the support and tips. I'm not gonna lie, I still feel and pray that I'm going to wake up from this nightmare. All suggestions and advice are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, B

No soliciting

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:51 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

Easy plan:

Does she want to Reconcile? No -> proceed with D

She wants to R but she’s not R material? -> proceed with D

She is (or has become) R material? -> ask for a detailed timeline followed by a polygraph. You will know if she had sex.

From what you wrote, she checked out of your marriage so it’s step 1 above. Do the 180. Detach yourself to help YOU. 180 is fir you, it’s not to make your WW do things. Don’t do diner for her laundry etc... she is no longer your wife.

Do what your lawyer said Don’t expose. Ask your lawyer if it’s ok to expose after the divorce settlement.

Remember that you didn’t hurt your kids, it’s all on her.

Find a good friend or family member to support you. Take care. Go to the movies with your kids, without your WW. Post often, we will support you.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 8:05 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

You have taken an excellent first step by informing the OBS. As hard as it is, it’s the right thing to do. You will see that your WW is still in contact with the AP once his W confronts him. She will most likely be angry and lash out at you. Do not engage. You do not need to justify your actions. Despite the emotional trauma you are going through you are doing very well. Remember the goal is to survive infidelity. Get out of infidelity, with or without your WW. But right now she is showing you nothing that would male her a good candidate for R. Be vigilant. Keep moving ahead.

Your WW’s actions make the holidays difficult for you. But you and your children can still enjoy. Implement the 180. You can be cordial and go about your life but stop engaging with her and doing things for her. Have fun with your kids. Get out and enjoy activities with them. You are moving on. Remember you are the prize. Good luck.

Dear Masters2020,

It is my opinion; your wife is viewing you as a very weak husband whom she can manipulate and control. She thinks she can do anything she wants, and you will not make any dominate decision in the marriage. I’m sorry to disagree with some of the posters and your attorney. If I were you, I would go to the CEO and expose the affair.

They are abusing you and your family, and this abuse got to stop. I would expose the affair to family and friends. You don’t realize the power you hold in your hands, because you don’t know your enemy. When I was in college and enlisted in the P.L.C. (LT. Col knows what I’m talking about), I was taught to know my enemy and to understand their strengths and weakness to destroy them. You have the tools to destroys this affair if you are willing to understand the enemy, who is both your wife and her AP, and to use those tools to the fullest degree.

Bigheart.

I didn't think they had sex, then she went to Dallas and lied to me, and now I'm honestly not sure. You're gonna say I'm blind to it, which I understand. Maybe I just don't want to face the truth. He sent her a text about the sunrise out her window in Dallas, which made me think he stayed with her that night. She claims no, but she might be lying.

They met for coffee in her room? Come on, man, you know how this ends.

Look, I did the same as you. I simply couldn’t believe it even though all of the circumstantial evidence pointed that way. You’re in shock, you’re traumatized, you’re in love with this woman. Suddenly, shockingly, she’s not the wife you thought you married. She’s someone else. No, body snatchers didn’t take your real wife away. This is who she has always been. That’s a very difficult thing to accept, but you will have to accept it. This is a powerful aspect of her personality she kept a lid on and hid from you. She wore a mask. We all wear masks. Some of us wear masks to hide very disturbing things, like adulterers.

This is in the 10 commandments for a reason. It’s among a small list of the most horrific and toxic things one human can do to another. That’s what you’re being subjected to. You’re going to have to stop giving her the benefit of the doubt and qualifying everything. She didn’t have that same respect for you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:29 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

First, your WW IS LYING to you. She has been lying and she is going to continue. Do not trust anything she says. She is a liar. Only her actions matter.

Second, it sucks that your kids will suffer for your WW's actions. It's NOT your fault. You didn't do this.

Start the 180 and protect yourself. If your WW wants to save the M, she can take steps to show you that.

Cancel the counseling session unless it is only to discuss how to live together. Otherwise you will be subjected to an hour of all of the things YOU did wrong and why your WW is justified in her A.

He sent her a text about the sunrise out her window in Dallas, which made me think he stayed with her that night.

There really is no other explanation for this. How did he know her room was facing the sunrise unless he rolled over in her bed and looked out the window? I'm sorry my man but you need to wake up here. I think you are going about this all wrong. You should be assuming that your WW has had and is continuing to have a sexual relationship with this man. It should be on her to prove she has not and not on you to prove she has.

By all means follow the advice of your attorney. Document everything that you have. You are in NC so you can actually sue the OM. Did you talk to your attorney about that? If you have to save all that you have and bring it out to the company after everything is settled in the Divorce.