SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi All,

I'm a fairly new BS (about five weeks). My WS and I are going to try to R. MC together (still in stupid "getting to know you" counselor process there ), IC for both of us (he's going weekly, I was every other week, but now my IC wants to see me weekly now too... guess I'm not doing so great, lol).

WS is clearly struggling. I'm supportive on my good days, but let's face it, I'm hard to live with on others (and he puts up with it all).

I think he'd benefit from this forum, but I don't know. Do couples typically both use it? Does that make it hard? Or do they only both use it once R is well underway?

Do couples use the forum? Yes.

Is it recommended?

No not until you know absolutely that he has his head on straight.

Can it help to get him to read here?

Not until he has his head on straight.

Can it do damage ? Absolutely

Can he use what you write here to manipulate and hurt you? Absolutely

If you do ask/tell him to join be careful about sharing your username.

Set some ground rules about reading and posting on each others threads.

My WH and I both use it, though me a lot more than him. I personally have not run into any issues, other than I do get a bit defensive on his behalf when I know when he meant one thing, but people take it as something else. I know, I’m weird. I don’t comment on his posts however, and have asked that he not comment on mine. We read each other’s posts but it’s usually not anything we haven’t already discussed.

I have seen it go very very badly though.

I'm a madhatter, as is my H, but I primarily identify as a WS, and he as a BS. I post far more than he does, though he reads often, including all of my posts. Some couples opt not to read each other's posts, at least in theory. I'm skeptical about how often that really works in practice.

I was curious about this too, so I started a thread on it back in August.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640511

I would not recommend it, at least at this point

This is your safe space to get support and advice.

My W knew about SI almost from the start, and I invited her to join. She refused so that I would have a safe place ... and so that she could hide.

She joined about 2 years after d-day, when I was convinced she was committed to R, and when she wanted support from me that I didn't want give and thought fellow WSes could give.

She said, after her first couple of posts, that the responses were 'a bit harsh.' She persisted and posts from time to time.

I'm with tush - it can help, when the WS is committed to R and has started doing the work.

*****

Of course your WS is having a hard time.

But you heal you.

He heals him. You can't do it, and especially in the early days you don't have the energy or focus to help him.

You heal you. By healing, you free energy that can be used to support him, which helps R - but focus on you now.

Gotta run....

My WW and I are both on here and we both post.

But I didn’t tell her about SI until about 2 years after DDay when I felt it would be helpful for her as we had hit a snag in R.

We’ve had mixed results, but overall positive. I don’t believe she’s used it to manipulate me in any way, but it can be challenging for a WS if they’re not prepared for the responses and pushback they’re going to get. But I think if the weather through it then it can be a good thing because it can make them think and further challenge their way of thinking on top of that. And the WS’s here don’t tolerate spin.

I did not tell my WW about SI in the early days - SI was my safe place. 5 weeks in is very early.

WS is clearly struggling. I'm supportive on my good days, but let's face it, I'm hard to live with on others (and he puts up with it all).

Struggling with what? What do you mean you’re supportive? It should be the other way around. And drop MC - it’s a waste of time now. IC only at this stage. Focus on you and your healing and figure out what you’re actually dealing with and what the deal is with your WS. Have you decided on R? Why? What has your WS done thus far to deserve it?

In short, utilize the community here to help you heal from what your WS did and to help you see clearly who your WS is. After, you can make decisions about R or not. And if your WS comes here it can only complicate matters for you.

My $0.02.

[This message edited by Walloped at 7:34 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

My W knew about SI almost from the start, and I invited her to join. She refused so that I would have a safe place ... and so that she could hide.

This is similar to my experience. My fch did try it. He said he stopped reading and posting because he's not an internet message board kind of person (true) and he wanted me to have a sage place. I think it was more likely that he didn't like what he was being told, so he ran away. He was still in the "poor me, my wife drive me to it" place and didn't like people telling him he was full of shit.

I do see some couples on here. I agree that it depends on the CP. If the CP is truly remorseful and looking for help and support, it can be a very good thing. If it's possible that they will use this site to manipulate their BP, not a good thing.

WS is clearly struggling. I'm supportive on my good days, but let's face it, I'm hard to live with on others (and he puts up with it all).

I'm concerned about this statement. Why are you working to support your CH? Why are you concerned about him putting up with you? This is a time for you to take care of yourself.

I am the WS. I have been here since the day my A ended and got in IC immediately. I confessed two months later. H knew I was doing an online support group but we didn't really talk about it much for a while. After a longer period, I was using what I read in this forum for talking points, and I didn't know it but he was reading here too. He joined when we were about 2 years in, but he rarely posts. He still reads though.

Some of the most explosive situations in this forum was because both the WS and BS showed up at the same time. In the early days, the WS always has their head up their ass, because we are sitting in the same issues we had when we started the affair. I will say that for some reason, the Betrayed Husband/Wayward Wife combo seems to always be the one that is explosive. Because IMO some of the new BH's get a lot of the toughest talk and usually from other men, and then if the WW posts people tend to want to take up for the WH and they are the hardest on the WW than you normally see on the site. It creates this new dynamic that I think is actually kind of detrimental. It seems like with the BW/WH dynamic, people still can light into the WH and talk to the BW about how he's not getting it, but it's not as intense.

Also it seems like most agree to not read each other's posts and I am skeptical that gets followed very often. It's human nature to want to read something your spouse wrote on a public site when all you really want in the world is more insight. So, consider that.

I have seen it work really well, but usually not out the gate. It may help to decide which one will use it more effectively and have that person use it for now. For us, that was definitely going to be me, even though we never discussed it. Forums are not my H's thing, and this site helped me move in the direction I have needed to go. But, I have seen some WS's join and it's useless for a long period of time because they are just here "as assigned".

Keet I would be VERY leery of inviting your WH here. This is YOUR space. In the last several months we have all witnessed several situations that were really awful for BS's because their WS was on here. Also, he should be on the computer scouring every infidelity-related resource he can on his own.

Mine didn't do that after DDay and guess what - he was still lying his ass off. If a WS shows no motivation in figuring their shit out after DDay, that is a pretty big red flag. Just my 0.02.

Also, please take your time on deciding to R. You do not have to make a decision right now, and the best part is - YOU get to call ALL the shots for it. I offered R waaaaaay too soon in my situation and it backfired spectacularly. IMHO, R shouldn't be offered until WS is showing remorse (not regret) for a long period of time, like 6-12 months. I totally get it and for me, I offered R to hurry up and get back to 'normal', but the truth is right now there is no normal in your M. Along with that, (also just MHO) MC shouldn't happen for a long time. Another one I did way too soon that also backfired. If you are going to stick with MC, please find one that specializes in infidelity and infidelity trauma. Too often on here we read about new BS's going to MC and it actually winds up doing more harm than good. And that was definitely true in my case.

but let's face it, I'm hard to live with on others (and he puts up with it all)

Respectfully honey... NO. I don't care how 'hard you are to live with'. Right now you do NOT owe him support. Right now, you owe YOU support. And he is struggling... well seems to me that is a normal consequence of some seriously shitty choices on his part. His part of this mess is to dig in with IC and figure out where he is broken and why and figure out how to become a safe partner again. And on top of that work, he also needs to support YOU and your healing. If he is doing anything less than that, I would see red flags. Your job here is to take care of yourself and your healing. It is not a short process and there are no shortcuts (even though we all wish there were!).

(((keet)))

But, I have seen some WS's join and it's useless for a long period of time because they are just here "as assigned".

TBH, this is how I feel about my WH. I don't think he's only getting out of the site what he puts into it, which is not much.

I do not recommend that you and your spouse both use this forum at this time. My wife found this site of her own. She read for a few months and then joined and participated here a lot early in the process. She did mention the forum to me but I was not interested. The site was very helpful to her in uncovering a lot of issues she had and working through her problems to become a better candidate for reconciliation. But I don’t know if we would have had the same results if we were both members at the same time.

Later, I asked to read her posts, and was aghast at much of what she had shared. Without realizing it she posted many identifiable details about our family that could have easily given our identities away should someone we know happen to come across those posts. I don’t need the whole world to know my wife fucked someone else and in fact I think it would have been pretty damaging to out chances of working through our marriage if someone had discovered it.

At my request, she no longer posts or reads here. When she stopped posting I decided to join. I feel a lot more comfortable posting knowing that I don’t have to worry about how she is going to feel about what I have said. Not that I have anything to hide but there have been some days that i have posted when i was feeling pissed off and have said some pretty foul shit. Sometimes a BS just needs somerhere to vent and get all that vitriol out so we don’t go crazy. It doesn’t mean that we don’t love the WS. But they might not get that.

I don’t think you should give up your safe place. If your WS needs someone to talk to let him talk to a therapist. Hell, I went to one and I wasn’t even the one who cheated. It helps if the person is ready to get real and change. (My wife went to one too.)

Plus if you don’t know where your spouse’s head is at you don’t want them to read here and start parroting stuff that sounds good but isn’t real. It would be different if he found the site on his own and started posting. But that doesn’t seem to be what happened in your case. Tell him to journal. To read books and listen to podcasts. To go to therapy. Maybe when he has shown some growth you can suggest this site to him. For right now you need a place that’s yours. Your healing isn’t less important than his.

I posted this on another thread in JFO but I think it's appropriate here too:

There's not necessarily anything wrong with inviting your WS to post here. But I will say so close to DDay, it's not a great idea. Some WSes do utilize SI as a way to start their journey but most of them use it to manipulate their BS - to further lies they've been telling the BS, to prove remorse when they're not remorseful, to complain about their BS, or to even keep tabs on their BS and stay one step ahead of them. Some have even shown up just to give their side of the story in response to their BS and imply that their BS is lying. It can be a helpful tool or another tactic straight out of the cheater's handbook depending on if your WS is remorseful.

Here is a quick red flag list for determining which one your WS is:

- Saying they're remorseful without proving it. Remorse comes with consistent actions over time that put the BS first. A WS who is lying to the BS is not remorseful. A WS who breaks NC is not remorseful. They are regretful and if you'd like to know more about the difference, please look at one of our many threads called "Remorse vs. Regret". If your WS is saying they're remorseful and then TT or gives you a new DDay, they were lying and you should be wary of them claiming remorse now after their latest transgressions.

- Lying or minimizing in their posts. A WS who claims they had one A is going to have a very different road to recovery than one who had 5. If your WS has not been honest and upfront about their transgressions (# of APs, EA/PA, TT, NC, etc.), they will not receive good advice. SI is also a very low risk place to tell their story. It's anonymous and WSes here are not judgmental. They will call someone out if they need to though. If your WS can't be honest here, then can you trust him to be honest with his therapist or in a therapy group where people may know him and judge him? Probably not which means the help he's getting there isn't going to be effective either.

- Focusing on what the BS is doing/isn't doing/should be doing. This is especially true if your WS starts to use their thread to catch you cheating or focus on an inappropriate relationship you might have. Yes, there are legitimate situations of MH'ing but there are also many situations in which a WS projects their own issues onto their BS so any opposite sex friendship can seem like a budding EA despite the BS having no history of improper relationships and having had this friendship without incident for years. The other examples are: complaining about the consequences of their A (BS being moody, BS not committed to the M, transparency, etc.), wanting their BS to do something for them so that they're "even", focusing on how the BS isn't putting effort into R or isn't working on themselves properly

- Saying their "why" has anything to do with the BS or the marriage and asking for advice on how to improve that in order to "fix" things. A WS has many options to fix their marriage without cheating but it's not uncommon for new WSes to say the reason they did it was because their marriage wasn't exciting enough or the BS didn't do x, y, and z. Many other WSes pick up on this right away and will tell them otherwise but some times the message is more subtle as in "I was feeling vulnerable because BS did/didn't do" and they won't see it.

- Getting defensive/arguing with other WSes when getting called out. The WSes who post frequently here are usually very good and have been in R for a considerable amount of time successfully. Not all of them make it but many of them have done enough work to see the pitfalls a new WS is falling in to. And many have been there, tried that, and gotten the t-shirt. If your WS is arguing with them or refusing to accept advice from them, then they're not going to get much out of SI or stick around long enough to get anything out of it.

- Not implementing what they've learned from The Healing Library or other WSes. Some WSes really believe they can pick and choose after DDay. Some will read "Not Just Friends" and then say it wasn't that useful as an excuse to keep an EA going or read one article here and find another one online that says to do the exact opposite of what they should be doing as an excuse not to do the work. If your WS is responding favorably to things they read here but ISN'T doing them, then they're not getting anything out of being here.

The downsides to a WS who is misusing SI:

- It gives them a false sense of doing the work because someone who isn't trying would never post here. They could be telling lies, throwing their BS under the bus, and treating the BS terribly behind closed doors but a little validation that they're doing something right with the posters here can go a long way to them justifying it to themselves that they don't really need to change and their BS needs to accept the crumbs that they're putting towards R.

- They can read your posts and keep one step ahead of you. They can see that you're about to throw in the towel because of their bad behavior and use the opportunity to love bomb you, make false promises, and convince you not to do it without actually stepping up and doing what they should be doing. Sometimes a WS has used their BS's posts on SI to get a legal jump on them - bringing the police into a domestic matter, seeing a lawyer first, etc.

- They can use your posts against you or even try to make not posting on SI a condition of R. Some WSes feel threatened by the advice and support their BS is getting. They will start arguments and quote things the BS has said about them or even forbid the BS from posting here.

At 5 weeks out, I would say give him another 6 months or so to prove remorse before asking him to post here. Ideally longer. At this stage, there are so many risks to him having access to your posts and very little rewards if he is not remorseful and going to really dig into The Healing Library and accept advice and criticism. If you're feeling unsure, please read in the Wayward forum and try to find some of the posters who have a BS here to see if they are using SI to better themselves or to manipulate, get ego kibbles, and put on a show for their BS. Then make your decision.

Err. that is a good one.

My WW does not use this forum at this time. She knows im on it and kinda disliked it at first.

In the beginning I wanted her on this forum, I thought it would "help" her. But as I have gone thru the process, this has kinda been a place for me to vent and just talk or read every now and then. It's been really helpful to have a community for myself.

There is still a small part of me that hopes that she is on here, and does not know my username, and is getting help here, but I know better.

There are other forums out there like this one, however for some reason, this one jives with me. So if my WW were to ask to join, I would probably have her join a different one just to help keep it seperate.

I'm posting to add that my W & I set ground rules on using SI.

The main one was not to read each other's posts, although we could read inadvertently. Also, we had stay out of each other's threads, and we agreed not fight on SI.

Hi keet.

My husband posted earlier. See? We both post here.

Even still, I agree that it’s not a good idea, especially soon after DDay.

The main one was not to read each other's posts, although we could read inadvertently. Also, we had stay out of each other's threads, and we agreed not fight on SI.

We had similar rules. I agreed not to read his (he’s basically said it’s okay now unless it’s a vent) and he was always allowed to read mine. And I agreed to share all PM’s from men with him (he doesn’t read them all, but I do let him know who is PM-ing me).

But even with those rules, for a WS right after DDay I think the temptation would be too big. Even if their motivations are good (I want to stay married, I want to show him I love him, I don’t want to hurt him anymore) they could do all those things nekonamida posted. Because those motivations aren’t good. They’re manipulative. That’s my point. A WS will think their intentions are good and could easily justify using SI the wrong way, just like we justified our A.

Thank you so much to all of you.

My husband is suffering but his head isn't on straight yet. So I'm going to keep you people and this place to myself.

Thanks for the support,

Julie

My husband is suffering but his head isn't on straight yet. So I'm going to keep you people and this place to myself. 

Good for you! I tried to get my WW on, but I'm glad she didn't want to. I need a safe place and this is about the only safe place I have with people that go through the same thing. I would be worried my WW would use this against me and manipulate me. I plan on inviting her again if R goes well for a good period of time.

As for your WH support. Maybe find someone that would be a good support for him. And encourage him to go talk to them. Waywards are pretty stupid and don't really know good character. So finding good support for them is hard.

My WW went to her sister who doesn't have a clue on many things for support. My MIL had an affair early on in her first marraige, SAS totally remorseful and did the work. I admire my MIL a lot. I told her about the affair. My wife probably thought about killing me. But now I see that she goes only to her mom for support. It has helped her a ton and it's nice that she is getting good support from a good source.

[This message edited by RedHeadTemper at 10:08 AM, November 15th (Friday)]