SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't posted here a lot but this place has truly helped me this past year. I don't know if this all makes sense to anyone but I try. My D-day was 7,5 months ago I'm slowly starting to have some real clarity on the situation. There's been a lot of MC and IC for us both. IMO we are trying to reconcile but as my new IC pointed out I'm still processing what this means to me and before I make any big decisions I have to understand the meaning...

Anyway, after having gained all this understanding (MC/IC, books/articles etc.)how my WH has a very avoidant attachment style, I've started to wonder what R for us would really look like and how is it ever possible to thrive from this.

Long story very short two years ago he faced some really though times at work and instead of dealing with what happened and those emotions he took an opportunity to jump in to an affair with some random woman (OW1) who literally just threw herself at him at that time. I mean it's pretty clear now he did it to avoid his life, mostly his job as it all happened at office hours. After he ended that, he just kept digging himself in to a deeper hole with all this other wayward behavior I know have learned until getting caught last spring with OW2.

Now he does not only have to deal with failure/unfortunate situations at work but also with a wife and children he's left down real bad to put it mildly.

He never had the skill set or coping skills to deal with the problems at work (which were really unfortunate and unfair, but life sometimes is), how is he supposed to do it with all of this. He seems to be frozen at this moment.

We were HB for about five months. Then the reality of it all somehow hit me with the anger stage starting and him so that he completely shut down, emotionally, physically etc. I mean he's there comforting me if I need him, or answering straight questions of what happened. But other than that he can't seem to do or say anything anymore.

I think it really hit him of what he has done and how it has affected us all - how all his justifications he had going on for him seem so insane now.

Half of me is here trying my best to help him - my husband and the father of my children - to keep our family together. The other half of me just got a wake up call for life. I mean I've been through an absolute hell with this trauma and it's far from over. But I've also got my shit together in every other aspect of my life. I'm taking care of my self, I'm excercising more, I'm staying in contact with my friends and family more actively, I'm thriving at work, I take no shit from anyone anymore, I'm taking time to me and doing things to myself. And I lost those annoying 14 pounds after D-day so I'm back to my pre baby weight from over 10 years ago. Physically I feel great.

I still have complete and utter meltdowns at times but I also just want to live and love and enjoy life. I don't know if I even want to have patience with all of this with a person who did this to me. Especially now when he seems to be incapable to do anything.

How are you supposed to R with a person who sits there and just shuts down when negative emotions arise. He can't form a sentence to say out loud, not even a word. It's going to be a long and hard work isn't it?

...I take no shit from anyone anymore...

There's a great first step to me, finding your value and not putting up with a damn thing from anyone. If there's a silver lining to this Hell, it is that I don't play anymore. No games, no masks, no taking grief from anyone.

I still have complete and utter meltdowns at times but I also just want to live and love and enjoy life.

Very normal feelings and really, you sound like your personal healing is going very well, despite everything you're going through.

Especially now when he seems to be incapable to do anything.

Ah, the 'deer in the headlights syndrome' -- or the being trapped in his own shame spiral.

After HB, I'm guessing he felt like everything was falling back into place, and yet, here you are just BEGINNING to deal with the trauma HE CAUSED.

I'll bet a dollar he is in the woe is me state of mind, that he believes he'll never be able to do ANYthing to get the love he wants back.

And, he's right to a certain extent.

It is possible, but only if he puts in half the energy he did in keeping secrets and engaging in relationships outside of his marriage.

IMO we are trying to reconcile but as my new IC pointed out I'm still processing what this means to me and before I make any big decisions I have to understand the meaning...

Absolutely.

But you can't get to that meaning without help.

R is uphill battle with BOTH partners being all in.

It's impossible if only one of you is willing to work for it.

I told my wife if we're going to make another run at this marriage, she was going to have to take the lead on her work, and in helping to heal the marriage. I actually used the line I typed above, I told her I think if she put in half the effort into US as she did her secret life, we would have a great chance.

Let your WH know, if he can't help, you need to be looking at what's best for you. And a silent partner isn't a safe one. He doesn't need to get to a point where he has to express his 'feelings' all the time, most of us guys aren't good at that anyway.

However, he does need to own it. All of it. He has to understand that your recovery happens at your pace with your boundaries.

Ultimately, you're on your path to find what's best for you. He may or may not be a part of it. Seems like you're good with life with or without him, which is a very healthy place to be.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 3:27 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

I definitely identify with your conflict. I don't really have a lot of advice to give as I'm almost 3 and a half years out and still face your dilemma. It really is a day to day process. Some better than others but I'm operating on an open schedule at this point. I'm going to try and rely on my instincts to let me know when enough is enough. And here I still am. You are not alone on this journey!!

I don't know if I even want to have patience with all of this with a person who did this to me.

This is clearly a very important question for you to figure out the answer to.

How are you supposed to R with a person who sits there and just shuts down when negative emotions arise.

Unless that is the reaction you want and is in 100% alignment with what you want and need for R, then you clearly don't and/or can't R.

For whatever reason it may not be his fault (due to upbringing or whatever else) that he never acquired a skill set or coping skills do deal with failures in the past, but it sure as heck is his job now to figure this out just like its your job to figure out what your going to do if he doesn't.

How are you supposed to R with a person who sits there and just shuts down when negative emotions arise.

I don't think you can. You need open and honest communication for R.

Has he tried to figure out why he is avoidant? That's a good thing for him to work on for IC and probably is why he can't handle issues at work. My wife is the biggest avoider I've ever met. I've learned it takes a strong will and patience if you want to work out that issue with him. My wife avoided over and over and over again. I told her, the affair won't end our marraige. But there are things that will end our marraige that I won't put up with anymore.

The first thing on my list was being able to address and handle issues. Then honesty and transparency. Then learning how to be happy. There were other things, but when I decided to detach a month ago, she started half ass working on herself. Then her mom talked to her about the same thing and she realized it's not just me identifying the issue. She showed more effort. When I said it's not enough (I was hopeful but not going to put up with the crap anymore) and said let's sperate, she really started working. I've seen more changes in my wife in the last two weeks than I've ever seen in her. I decided I won't put up with it any more. My wife must have decided that this is something she wants, cause she is doing it. I hope she keeps up the good work.

I'd tell you the same. There's hope that he can change, but only he can do it. I agreed with you when I told my wife that avoiding things will be a real breaker in my M. Maybe communicate with your H that you're feeling the same way. It can be fixed, but only by him. And I agree with you 100%. No R can happen if he is avoiding the conflict. And with an A and betrayal, you'll probably never see a bigger conflict.

I don’t know why people avoid topics or issues or situations but they do.

My H’s family are the hands down winners in avoidance tactics. A simple question like are you free on Thursday to get tiger her - no response.

I have seen the stonewalling tactics used by my H (with me) be very effective. I no longer tolerate it.

I saw my FIL completely shut down during a medical crisis where he would not speak or answer a question. It wasn’t a mean thing it was a mental - cannot deal thing.

It could be simply fear. Fear if your H answers a question you will leave him. Fear of facing his poor choices. Fear of facing the consequences of his affair.

I can relate, I shut down when we start discussing my affairs. There have been times, though when I am able to pull myself out of it, or prevent it, but that is when I prepare myself for the conversation, put myself in a place of calm. That isn’t very often, imo, the shut down happens when too much emotion rises to the surface all at once, for me it’s shame, sadness, disgust, at times disbelief and disappointment in myself (anger), facing the person you have betrayed and seeing the immense pain your actions have caused them, wanting desperately to take that pain from them, undo what you have done...I realize that I truly cannot feel what my BH or other betrayed spouses feel, I am sorry that I can’t. But I can say that no one deserves this.

My silence comes across as cold and uncaring, when I don’t have a reciprocal conversation,it appears like I’m distant, when I don’t recognize every trigger I come across as unempathic.

If anyone knows of a way to stop these shut downs from happening, I’m listening.

Thankyou all for your responses. I guess I still have a lot of processing to do on my own as well.

Oldwounds:

Ultimately, you're on your path to find what's best for you.

That is something that is very hard to crasp on to after a decade of concentrating on the family. To see me for who I am and what I need that I can be the best mother and the best person I can be.

Timespent: It does help to know, how ever unfortunate it is, that these aren't unique struggles. Let's just try to enjoy the good days for now.

FEEL:

For whatever reason it may not be his fault (due to upbringing or whatever else) that he never acquired a skill set or coping skills do deal with failures in the past, but it sure as heck is his job now to figure this out just like its your job to figure out what your going to do if he doesn't.

I know he'd like to do more, participate more and speak more. He would need to dig deeper to who he is and to his past. But you're right, I can't make him.

Cocoplus5nuts: I guess I knew that but it helps to hear other people to say it as well.

RedHeadTemper: Thanks for sharing all that. That is something I need to do as well.

The1stwife:

It could be simply fear. Fear if your H answers a question you will leave him. Fear of facing his poor choices. Fear of facing the consequences of his affair.

A lot of articles talk about fear of abondment. There's really nothing that would explain that in his past but I guess you never know. It can be taht or anything, I think he doesn't even have a clue of what he is afraid of. Maybe just realizing the fact he's now the person he taught he was. He just can't deal and I guess that's the reason I'm here on the first place.

Need2do: Thanks for sharing that. This is something I really want to understand because I see some of the same qualities on our oldest daughter as well. When too much negative emotions rise she just can't deal and don't want anyone near her. You lose all ways to communicate with her at all. It's very different from our other children but there are a lot of similarities to how his dad behaves. I don't know what will become of our marriage but I want to be able to somehow help her to deal with that better in her life, if that makes any sense.

saw my FIL completely shut down during a medical crisis where he would not speak or answer a question. It wasn’t a mean thing it was a mental - cannot deal thing.

My in-laws did this when my MIL was diagnosed with breast cancer. My MIL pretended like she was fine so she wouldn't burden her husband. He pretended like it was true and went on with his family life. No one talked about it. After she died, FIL said his biggest regret was that he didn't stop working so much to spend time with her. If she had been honest, if he hadn't stuck his head in the sand, he wouldn't have that regret.

I look at what MIL did as cruel. She wasn't trying to be cruel. She thought she was doing what was best. Turned out, it was probably the worst thing she could've done. I told my fch to not ever do anything like that to me! He did it anyway.

Hi singingmypain,

I can relate somewhat to what you are saying. My WH also has an avoidant attachment style but not to the extent that - it sounds like - your WH does. Interestingly enough, my WH was also having some issues at work prior to his cheating and while he swears that the work issues had nothing to do with the "massage parlors" he suddenly decided to start visiting I think they do.

He never had the skill set or coping skills to deal with the problems at work (which were really unfortunate and unfair, but life sometimes is), how is he supposed to do it with all of this. He seems to be frozen at this moment.

I think I could say the same about my WH - he had no idea what to do after dday. I think the one good thing we did was to start MC very quickly and we lucked out by getting a truly great MC. He worked with my husband a lot to tell him what to do in specific situations, got him to start talking about his feelings and looking at his issues. 9 months later I can see that he has really come a long way in dealing with this.

How are you supposed to R with a person who sits there and just shuts down when negative emotions arise.

One other thing that might help is meditation. This is something I asked WH to start doing after my Dday - frankly it was the only thing I could think of that might help after the only explanation for cheating that WH could give was "I don't know".

I have a friend who seemed to be in a similar situation, he was just absolutely unable to deal with any type of negative emotion. His girlfriend actually broke up with him over this - he was very closed off and couldn't be vulnerable or open in any way. So he started meditating and he credits this with basically changing his life by allowing him to be able to sit with uncomfortable emotions, take action, and move forward. A few years after the breakup his girlfriend noticed the changes, they got back together, and just got engaged a few months ago.

BUT..... This was a process of my friend meditating for about 30 minutes a day, taking meditation classes, etc for many years - I think he's about 8 years out at this point. So while it may be something that would be great for your husband in the long run you may not want to sit around waiting for the transformation.

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Hello Singingmypain, All the advice you are receiving here is very good. I would just like to clarify or elaborate for everyone that an "avoidant attachment" is much more than just "avoiding" the topic of the affair. It is an actual clinical state of mind that typically stems from childhood experiences. I learned this the hard way after my wife's year long affair with another married man. She and I have now been in IC for 4 years now and it turns out my wife has a very severe avoidant attachment style (AAS). For those that are not familiar with this, it is a very deep seeded and sub-conscious resistance to emotionally connecting or bonding with a spouse or significant other. It represents the majority of single and divorced people (for obvious reasons). For those that are AAS and are married they go through all the motions, loving cards and presents etc yet they are not emotionally connected to their spouses. The majority of cases stem from a deep belief that they are inadequate and dont deserve a loving relationship and that if they do let someone "in" that they will invariable be hurt. Believe it or not but that "fear" of an emotional attachment actually comes from the amygdala (fight or flight) part of the brain so sub-consciously it is equating the emotional attachment as a life threatening response. And that makes it very serious to deal with and over come.

So here is how it plays out. Your WH and my WS have deep seeded beliefs that they are not worthy and therefor resist emotional closeness, they have an affair because it gives them what they falsely think is closeness but does not require emotional connection, it also subconsciously confirms to themselves that they are not good and unworthy, they get exposed and feel even worse about themselves which makes the AAS even worse. Not good at all for reconciliation.

So that puts you and I into very similar boats with me having the un-envious benefit of 4 years into the R process. There is so much to share with you if you are interested, happy to help if I can.