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IC is getting to the bottom of the justification, and stopping there and asking "what are you getting from him?"

Really? The only expectation your WW should have in receiving from you are D papers.

There are 2 possible scenarios here with your WW's counselor, neither are good.

1. She is telling you the truth and her IC actually thinks it is on YOU to repair the damage from your WW's A. YOU cannot fix your WW. She cheated, not you. This is unfixable.

2. Your WW is lying to you about what the counselor says, and wants YOU to fix the M. Again, this is not possible.

Either way, your WW is NOT, in any way, a candidate for R. She is not doing the work and not working to rebuild trust.

Just wondering, what will it take her doing that would cause you to file the next day???

This may be rough, but after what she has done, and what she is currently doing, what are you waiting for????

Good luck and stay strong!

What concerns me is that, according to my WW, the IC is getting to the bottom of the justification, and stopping there and asking "what are you getting from him?" Not getting to the bottom of why she is/was willing to pursue something so fleeting at the risk of up-ending the whole life she's created. Bit of a difference there that she can't see or let in.

Sounds like marriage counseling instead of individual counseling, which is odd because only one party is in the room.

Now she's saying very different stuff about the main things I considered deal-breakers after I presented them as deal-breakers. The other points haven't been discussed yet.

But how do I ever know the talk is legit, not just preservation of the life she's built via doing just enough to appease?

This doesn't really change anything except the number of questions. And there's still hiding behavior that must be addressed.

At some point, I suppose you just can't take any more of the cat-and-mouse and hit the old ripcord.

[This message edited by Slanted at 2:10 PM, November 22nd (Friday)]

But how do I ever know the talk is legit, not just preservation of the life she's built via doing just enough to appease?

At this point you don't. Actions not words over a long period of time is what will reveal whether or not your WW is remorseful. Will she do all she can to make you feel safe in the M? If not, then it's merely appeasement.

Hey brother,

She is a adult, if she was speeding, she cannot blame other drivers, she had crossed the boundaries of the marriage.

Make her accountable.

Start the 180 now, distance yourself emotionally from her. If the roles were reversed she would not blame herself, would she?

Good luck

Buffer

An update from the trenches, another month on.

My WW was in contact with the main AP again. Told me I was crazy. Then that I was right she was lying, but I am still crazy.

I've gone along to make it through the holidays, and been in 180 mode. She was happy to never talk about anything. A few days ago she told me she is all done with transparency. We can build trust "other ways." Like, you know, my just believing her.

I could go on, but yeah. All of you have hit the nail on the head very well. Things seem really harsh when people say them. Then those people are right.

I have nothing at all to work with. No more unicorn hunting for this broken BS. More to follow.

[This message edited by Slanted at 10:04 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)]

She occasionally throws you crumbs but reveals it all to be a manipulation to appease you into rugsweeping the second you don't take the bait and express gratitude for it.

And there it is. Exactly.

We can build trust "other ways."

I don't think she knows the definition of Trust. Did you get her a dictionary for Christmas?

I don't think she knows the definition of Trust. Did you get her a dictionary for Christmas?

Ha! That's perfect.

It's this awesome dictionary where every time she looks up "my husband's failures which made me cheat," it redirects to a mirror.

Slanted - you married the female version of my STBX WH.

He's all anger peppered with instructions on what I need to change to keep the marriage!? Wtf even is that??

His vow breaking pales in comparison to his vague accusations that I didn't make him feel like an equal or loved enough and oh yeah, I got jealous twice.

And like your spouse, mine eschews transparency and requests more autonomy. I've been told I'll just have to trust he's doing the right thing. Yeah, ok cheater.

I'm proud to say I kicked him out two months after dday. Not proud to say I've been wobbly as hell and out of my mind with grief and confusion. How is he not sorry? How is he not helping me heal, blaming me, attacking my character and calling me names? I didn't do anything!! He's an utter stranger to me.

180 didn't work one iota with my STBX. He's not ready to give up his double life and it sounds like your wife is in a similar place.

Putting up with it, giving them time, whatever you want to call it just causes them to think even less of us than they already do.

Putting up with it, giving them time, whatever you want to call it just causes them to think even less of us than they already do.

Yep, they're all Grade A Assholes. Our love and compassion are used against us. Walking out, completely going cold turkey, and being indifferent seems to be the only "winning" move. Yet it's so counter-intuitive to me, because that feels like an asshole move too.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 11:18 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)]

Slanted, at this point. Why do you stick with her? She's lying, blameshifting, in contact with the AP again, is barely able to even pretend she cares about you and the relationship beyond what she's getting out of it.

Walking out, completely going cold turkey, and being indifferent seems to be the only "winning" move. Yet it's so counter-intuitive to me, because that feels like an asshole move too

It does make us, the BS, feel bad about our choice to cut the cord and save ourselves. We view it as being mean or cold or hurtful to someone we love/loved.

But we fail to see the abuse and unhealthy relationship for what it is.

We fail to see that ending the abuse is the answer and ending the marriage or relationship is the only option.

The BS has to stop viewing the demise of the marriage negatively. Sometimes it is the ONLY choice we have. We have to leave and end it and stop caring about the CS.

My happiness and well being is more important. I learned that lesson the hard way.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 4:29 AM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

Slanted - you married the female version of my STBX WH.

He's all anger peppered with instructions on what I need to change to keep the marriage!? Wtf even is that??

Entitlement!

"I had my cake, and ate it too. Oh, and you found out? Well then, I'll have your cake, too, since you offered. Oh, you didn't? What is wrong with you that you don't want to give me your cake, you monster?!? And why are you sad like a baby?!?"

Putting up with it, giving them time, whatever you want to call it just causes them to think even less of us than they already do.

It really is remarkable, isn't it?

And I'm so sorry you've had to go through all of this too.

Slanted, at this point. Why do you stick with her?

I'm not. She is vibrating with anger that I won't accept my shit sandwich and say thanks. I now have a long to-do list. More updates soon.

Slanted,

I could go on, but yeah. All of you have hit the nail on the head very well. Things seem really harsh when people say them. Then those people are right.

I'll tell you, we absolutely hate being right around here when it comes to unremorseful waywards.

It sounds like you've woken up. Now stay there.

Start separating finances and lawyer up. As someone said earlier in this thread, go at this with both barrels blazing. Hard 180 and NC. I say go scorched earth. Kick her out of the bedroom, and start telling everyone in your family (and hers) and gather up a posse than you can emotionally lean on. Anybody that supports her version of the story (blameshifting) needs to go.

She's your enemy now, make no mistake. Probably really never had your bests interests at heart. Only hers.

Crappy way to start the new year but at least you have a path. Best of luck.

I'm not. She is vibrating with anger that I won't accept my shit sandwich and say thanks. I now have a long to-do list. More updates soon.

Good on you, make certain to be the one to initiate the divorce if that is the move you're going for. Don't warn her in advance, pretend she'll get what she wants, and then ambush her one day. Who initiates usually wins, as sad as that is.

You have nothing to lose here but dead weight dragging you down. Though dead weight might be putting it nicely. Deadweight isn't constantly trying to sabotage and hurt you.

[This message edited by Marauder at 5:17 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

I'll just simply do a "copy and paste" of my advice to you back in November:

Your WW is a SERIAL CHEATER and one who still today claims the EAs don't count, so if you stay with her expect more of those not to count in the future, she sees nothing wrong with those. Please dump this proven cheater and liar and don't look back, btw don't forget to get tested for STDs.

Slanted, what are you going to do? Your wife appears to think she can have a open marriage that you will simply accept.